• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

CK2 Dev Diary #81 - Cleaning up the Map

Greetings!

The last few Dev Diaries have had you visit the Cartographer’s office to look at several reworked areas of the map - while there are more, we don’t want to show them all in a row, lest we risk you getting bored of them!

Today we will instead take a look at a minor free feature, an optional new Game Rule that might just help those of us that really can’t stand irregular borders! Like the map changes, this change will arrive in the free update that will accompany the next expansion. This feature is a pet project of mine, and an attempt to cure situations such as these:
Bordergore_example.png

As you can see in this example, Scotland holds a province in mainland Anatolia. There’s no logical way for them to control this territory - there’s no land connection, it’s not connected via ports, and it’s not part of their De Jure area.

The Game Rule is called ‘Exclave Independence', and aims to do just that - set exclaves independent. Being an optional Game Rule, it’s very modular, and is mainly intended as a tool for increasing immersion.
Exclave_GR.png


The Scotland example pictured previously is really the worst case scenario, and would be covered by any of the settings. As the ruler of Scotland dies, the game will try to identify any ‘exclaves’ and take appropriate action. If there are rulers whose land is completely situated in an exclave, they will be set independent, otherwise a peasant leader will seize control of the land. In this case the result will look like this:
Bordergore_cured.png


I can tell you that, if you’re like me, the difference playing with this Game Rule is like night and day. After a few hundred years you’ll no longer have a map that makes you want to claw your eyes out! As I mentioned earlier there are many different settings, and here is a full list of them:
Added the ‘Exclave Independence’ Game Rule, with the purpose of eliminating disconnected land on succession. As long as the new ruler during a succession isn’t at war, their exclaves should be set independent according to the setting. If the AI is at war during succession, they will try to remove exclaves once every year until such a time they are no longer at war (does not apply to Players). Settings:
  • Off - The default option, no removal.
  • Limited - Exclaves of Independent Rulers at peace will be removed on succession unless they are connected to the Capital area with gaps no larger than one County, via a naval path or part of the characters primary De Jure territory.
  • Limited (Naval) - Exclaves of Independent Rulers at peace will be removed on succession unless they are connected to the Capital area with gaps no larger than one County, via a limited naval path (1000 distance units) or part of the characters primary De Jure territory.
  • Significant - Exclaves of Independent Rulers at peace will be removed on succession unless they are connected via a naval path or part of the characters primary De Jure territory.
  • Harsh - Exclaves of Independent Rulers at peace will be removed on succession unless as they are connected via a limited naval path (1000 distance units) or part of the characters primary De Jure.
  • Total - Exclaves of Independent Rulers at peace will be removed on succession unless as they are connected via a limited naval path (1000 distance units). Disables Achievements.

To show a more tangible example, I loaded up an old save and added the Game Rule to it. It looked like this:
Exclave_ex2.png


After the death of the ruler of the Mongol Empire (the light blue spots) the result produced this:
Exclave_cure_mongol.png


And after the death of the King of Bengal:
Exclave_cure2.png

As you can see, the two Mongol provinces were overtaken by Peasant Leaders as they were much too far away from their steppe overlords. Bengals land, on the other hand, simply had the vassals declare independence, as they held no land in non-exclave land.

I hope this small feature will be of interest to some of you, in the next DD we will return to the cartographer's office with another exciting update!

Please note that the time between Dev Diaries will be irregular, as we’re still early in the development cycle.
 
S
Depends on the county - if it's empty it'll become nomadic.


It borders an Abyssinian province, which in turn is not more than one county away from the mainland, AND it is part of De Jure Abyssinia. It'd not get removed on inheritance under anything but the 'Total' version of the game rule.


Vassals can have as many exclaves as they want within their realm. It's only independent characters that are affected by this.
So, if I take Massawa, and it no longer has a bordering province, although it's de Jure Abyssinia, what happens?
 
I love this new rule! My one gripe with the game currently is precisely how unrealistic the borders end up full of exclaves everywhere, compared to a historical map.
 
Vassals can have as many exclaves as they want within their realm. It's only independent characters that are affected by this.

How will this affect vassals' exclaves outside the realm?
For exemple, if I am the king of Bohemia, within the HRE, and I somehow inherit a random county the middle of England (without naval path to either me or the HRE in general). Will I lose it at my character's death, at the emperor's death or not at all?
 
In what circumstances were capitals moved?
First of many kingdoms in this era had no capitals, but the capital was simply the castle where the king currently held court, secondly pretty much every time there was a dynasty shift, heck it wasn't all that uncommon for ti to shift with every succession look at the HRE during the Hohenstaufen and the early abassid caliphs.

And lose the rest of your territory if it happens to be outside de jure.
The question was england jerusalem, so yeah you either set jerusalem as primary title and keep your court in england or england as your primary and keep your court in the holy land.
Yeah depending on how chaining works you may lose things like wales.
 
Will also an enclave get independent if it’s directly ruled by the top ruler?
Yes or nomads would very rarely lose anything to them.
 
luckily my buddy made a mod like this. def helps with immersion. using a realm break mod too.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=627819747

something the developers should maybe consider. Helps with blobbing the entire world. gross.

his new version doesn't mess with factions but it is still harsh realm breaker.

the link below is the exclave mod if you don't want to wait for this, made in 2016
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=773182774&searchtext=exclave
 
Last edited:
Excellent work! Thank you for this.

Quick question - though perhaps this ought to be directed to someone else, I'll ask here - is there any chance there will be a reworking of the consanguinity mechanic in-game? I know that while that doesn't apply per certain cultures and depending on religion, may be desired (looking @ you Zoroastrians), but given the scope of the game and the influence of consanguinity in Christendom I figured I should reach out. I've played CK2 for years and own all but one of the major expansions, and I've noticed that consanguinity as a mechanic doesn't seem to be referenced except in odd aunt/nephew uncle/niece marraiges. I'm glad that it's included but feel it could use a pretty severe reworking/expansion to enhance gameplay. You could make it to where the mechanic itself changes with different popes/papacies (which was a thing - at one point nine degrees of separation was ideal, at another seven, at another five, etc., and dispensations were granted throughout and more commonly as time passed).

Any thoughts on potentially paying to have the pope recognize marriages within prohibited degrees of consanguinity? Or else - actions whereby the church excommunicates folks who marry within prohibited bounds (which it did, historically, and often) without papal dispensation? I know that your team has worked really hard to provide excellent gameplay and realistic set-ups (when desired by the player) and I know that myself and a few other hardcore CK2 fans would appreciate it if that was included in one of the upcoming expansions or updates. After all, Anna of Kiev didn't become queen of France because of her beauty or wit - her hubby literally was related to every eligible woman in Europe that was closer (and more politically relevant).

I recognize the idea is fairly large and probably difficult to pull off (maybe I'm wrong) but just wanted to give y'all a shout-out and recommendation. <3

Best wishes <3 <3 <3
 
Another potential issue with EU4's 1444 start came to mind. Provence. Provence being an independent realm with provinces all over the place, not part of the HRE, not part of France. Not even historically, as it was some time until Provence was inherited into France. Yet Provence maintains exclaves all over the place.
 
Another potential issue with EU4's 1444 start came to mind. Provence. Provence being an independent realm with provinces all over the place, not part of the HRE, not part of France. Not even historically, as it was some time until Provence was inherited into France. Yet Provence maintains exclaves all over the place.
Navarre has a handful of small enclaves effected by this change too.

Maybe rulers with fewer than 3-4 counties under their entire name can be excluded.
 
Navarre has a handful of small enclaves effected by this change too.

Maybe rulers with fewer than 3-4 counties under their entire name can be excluded.
I've seen random counts inherit random other counties on the other side of the continent before. A two-county count with one county in Finland and the other in Castille definitely shouldn't be exempt from the rule.
 
Another potential issue with EU4's 1444 start came to mind. Provence. Provence being an independent realm with provinces all over the place, not part of the HRE, not part of France. Not even historically, as it was some time until Provence was inherited into France. Yet Provence maintains exclaves all over the place.
Technically Provence is in the HRE. Burgundy however is an interesting question. Burgundy and Flanders are technically both vassals of france but Brabant Holand and so on is not. So the question is does it chain from Flanders to those...
 
If, for example, the King of Scotland won a Crusade for Jerusalem and, at succession, the conquered lands were too far away, would that scenario end up with a Levantine sunni King of Jerusalem? Shouldn't the take-over be done by a Scottish catholic?
 
Also: how will it work with the law that forbids inheritance in the realm to foreign dynasties?
 
I've seen random counts inherit random other counties on the other side of the continent before. A two-county count with one county in Finland and the other in Castille definitely shouldn't be exempt from the rule.

IMHO it should depend on a certain range, not solely on whether or not it is the right de jure empire. A county in a neighboring de jure Empire, even when both are landlocked, IMHO does not have to be problematic provided it is within a certain range. This range IMHO should be smaller for landlocked provinces, perhaps within a neighboring de jure kingdom?
 
Last edited:
Game Rule feature is probably the best thing ever added to CK2.

People here are debating whether distance of 1000 is too high or too low. Some believe the very feature about exclaves is perhaps pointless, since there was bordergore in real history. But we now get to tweak the feature, even turn it off. And I'm sure it will be possible to change the distance eventually, either by mods or by an official game rule.

Let us just appreciate this awesome feature...
 
If, for example, the King of Scotland won a Crusade for Jerusalem and, at succession, the conquered lands were too far away, would that scenario end up with a Levantine sunni King of Jerusalem? Shouldn't the take-over be done by a Scottish catholic?
In that position it should hand the title to the most powerful vassal under it not to a peasant rebel, the peasant rebel thing should really only happen if there are no feudal vassals under the title.


Game Rule feature is probably the best thing ever added to CK2.

People here are debating whether distance of 1000 is too high or too low. Some believe the very feature about exclaves is perhaps pointless, since there was bordergore in real history. But we now get to tweak the feature, even turn it off. And I'm sure it will be possible to change the distance eventually, either by mods or by an official game rule.

Let us just appreciate this awesome feature...
In real history there was dual overlordships, the king of england payed taxes to the king of france from his lands in normandy, in fact him trying to get out of that us what began the HYW.
 
Last edited:
This is amazing! Can you please add the feature to all of your games? I don't do alliances in Stellaris anymore because total wars always result in massive border gore :-D