CK2 Dev Diary #88 - A Faith In My Own Image

[DPS]

You don't get a CB. Only CB you have is Subjugate. Once per Lifetime. So you would need 3 generations. As Svipjod, Denmark or Norgre it's somewhat more easy, but as Viking in England it's quiet a pain.

You have other options--send your chancellor to fabricate claims, marry for claims, invite claimants to court.

 

[Riftwalker]

You have other options--send your chancellor to fabricate claims, marry for claims, invite claimants to court.

i'm pretty sure you do have a single county CB unless it was changed, i haven't played germanic in a while due to the aforementioned problems of conquering your entire religion to reform it.

 

[MateuszS]

Does polygamy include concubines or just allows to legally marry four women?

Do heathen concubines count as wives in allowing/disallowing interfaith marriage?

 

[Varren]

The flavor text for the polygamy doctrine implies that you promote all your concubines to wives.

 

[TheDarkMaster]

i'm pretty sure you do have a single county CB unless it was changed, i haven't played germanic in a while due to the aforementioned problems of conquering your entire religion to reform it.

That single county CB only works on different religion targets. Your only innate CB you can use on same faith targets is the subjugation one, which is once per lifetime unless you have 'become a king' and then that's only on the De Jure kingdom region.

 

[Sam_Stone]

Will it be possible to mod this feature so you have more then two doctrines? I would like to make my Reformed Germanic faith have both the sea faring+daring combination doctrine in addition to Astrology and Haruspicy(sp?).

 

[es333]

Will it be possible to mod this feature so you have more then two doctrines?

Yes.

 

[Slayen]

Will it be possible to mod this feature so you have more then two doctrines? I would like to make my Reformed Germanic faith have both the sea faring+daring combination doctrine in addition to Astrology and Haruspicy(sp?).

From the Devs in this thread:

Religious features are entirely moddable. They can be added, changed, removed, the AI's behavior to select them can be modified, etc. Although, naturally, changing the Reformation interface itself is a bit harder than simply adding new Doctrines to the available list.

You can mod in to pick more than 2 yes.

 

[es333]

A very important question for me regarding Pagan Reformation:
Are the prerequisites to reform the same as before?

It is totally boring to conquer all of scandinavia over and over again every time you play a norse.... And makes it almost impossible to stay norse successfully as Jorvik.

I don't think that the new mechanics alone make that part of the game any more interesting.

I completely agree. I think that needing 3 holy sites is not always necessary. Let's say the moral authority is over 70 or 80, then it could be reformed, with a big piety cost of course.

 

[Ksiendzu]

I think, 1 Holy Site, MA above 70 and high piety cost sholud be fine as alternative reformation conditions.

 

[TheDarkMaster]

I think, 1 Holy Site, MA above 70 and high piety cost sholud be fine as alternative reformation conditions.

That high of MA would be almost impossible to get, baring defeating a GHW or having a couple successful religious revolts. Raids, conquests, defeating holy wars/rebels, and other minor bonuses usually don't ever add to more than +10-15%, since they'll also be countered by lost ones by the AI. The only time you won't see the AI with a ton of lost wars is if there's only one major realm of that religion, which would mean they'd also have all the controlled holy sites. Even getting up to the 50% MA required to reform with three holy sites is really tough if that's the only three holy sites your religion controls, barring cheese or supporting something like several foreign prepared invasions. You almost always need the religion to control four sites to have high enough MA to reform.

So the only situation you'd expect to see 70% MA would be if the religion controls all five sites and defeats a GHW against them. That's not really a situation that's going to come up very often. Something like 60% might be better, since it would be much more typical for a pagan faith that holds all five sites, but extremely rare for one that holds only four. I could see only needing two sites and 1k-1.5k piety being an acceptable requirement for that.

 

[Riftwalker]

That single county CB only works on different religion targets. Your only innate CB you can use on same faith targets is the subjugation one, which is once per lifetime unless you have 'become a king' and then that's only on the De Jure kingdom region.

yes, i just checked, definitely didn't used to be that way, as i remember slowly county conquesting scandinavia and the holy sites. no wonder i've been seeing germanic reform less often.

 

[Riftwalker]

I think, 1 Holy Site, MA above 70 and high piety cost sholud be fine as alternative reformation conditions.

I'd prefer a 1-per-game event line that reforms a pagan religion if successful. completely disregarding holy sites and moral authority. (but still keep old way as well) this way any given pagan religion has some minor chance of reforming on it;s own. only occurs when supernatural events are enabled, etc. The event chain should involve a few wars that will give you land pretty easily. so the AI doing it will end up with at least a nice realm if he succeeds.

maybe allow a player some way to make the event more likely to play for them if they want to, like having higher than 1000 piety or some such.

 

[TheDarkMaster]

yes, i just checked, definitely didn't used to be that way, as i remember slowly county conquesting scandinavia and the holy sites. no wonder i've been seeing germanic reform less often.

I'm pretty sure that's the way it's always been since Old Gods was released. You're probably remembering a modded version.

 

[GoukaRyuu]

I'd prefer a 1-per-game event line that reforms a pagan religion if successful. completely disregarding holy sites and moral authority. (but still keep old way as well) this way any given pagan religion has some minor chance of reforming on it;s own. only occurs when supernatural events are enabled, etc. The event chain should involve a few wars that will give you land pretty easily. so the AI doing it will end up with at least a nice realm if he succeeds.

maybe allow a player some way to make the event more likely to play for them if they want to, like having higher than 1000 piety or some such.

I like this but then I would want a non-supernatural version too.

 

[Riftwalker]

I'm pretty sure that's the way it's always been since Old Gods was released. You're probably remembering a modded version.

it's more likely that I was using the CB on catholics than using mods, tbh.

 

[Riftwalker]

I like this but then I would want a non-supernatural version too.

the idea is just to make it so people can turn it off, maybe just add another rule for pagan reformations instead.

all, only through sites, player only, none

 

[GoukaRyuu]

the idea is just to make it so people can turn it off, maybe just add another rule for pagan reformations instead.

all, only through sites, player only, none

I understand that. I have always been a proponent of that kind of thing, the same with forming kingdom titles too really. I feel like based on events or traits there should be opportunities that allows you to do it with less holy sites but more MA or piety or in forming titles cash or even prestige (If you gain a lot of prestige from winning a defensive war but don't have the cash you should be able to spend prestige as the idea is you are using your recently gained political capital to grease the wheels instead). Something similar can probably be done with reformation. Perhaps it would vary based on religion but the event chain could open up if a character has zealous plus one or two other specific traits important to that religion.

 

[Riftwalker]

I understand that. I have always been a proponent of that kind of thing, the same with forming kingdom titles too really. I feel like based on events or traits there should be opportunities that allows you to do it with less holy sites but more MA or piety or in forming titles cash or even prestige (If you gain a lot of prestige from winning a defensive war but don't have the cash you should be able to spend prestige as the idea is you are using your recently gained political capital to grease the wheels instead). Something similar can probably be done with reformation. Perhaps it would vary based on religion but the event chain could open up if a character has zealous plus one or two other specific traits important to that religion.

I just in generally Would prefer a way that doesn't depend on Realm size, or numbers. Accomplishing some tasks specific to the religion makes more sense.

some sort of chain of events, rather than just a slow build to a specific number after collecting 3 holy sites.

Like imagine if you could get it by conquering a kingdom title over a holy site that's been held by an organized religion. Then holding it for 20 years, and while you're doing this, all nereby people not of your faith have a CB on the kingdom. When you capture the Kingdom, you forfeit the land outside of it, except maybe your demense/capital, so you can have a fallback area if a player loses instead of just Game Over. if you hold it, you become a Champion of the faith, and you can go to other leaders of your faith, or priests and seers and undertake some challenges and if you best them, you can reform the faith in this gandius way, instead of this otherwise gamey way.

you undertook the trials of Hercules for your faith, you went and visited the gods and came back, maybe your became a god slayer killing a big bad of the faith. It'd be like 10 times better than how systematic and lifeless the current way is.

I'd love it too, if this was a world message type deal too, so you hear about this dude doing this crazy things in a far off land.

 

[Foefaller]

Here's my dream scenario:

You (and probably not the AI, at least not if they are the same faith as you) can reform the religion with less than 3 holy sites if you have enough piety. However, this does two things:

1. Your faith starts out as the heresy, with the Old pagan faith still being the primary religion.

2. Any top-tier rulers of the same faith that holds one of the other holy sites can choose to reform the religion themselves, making their own (probably only slightly altered, for balance/exploitative issues) versions.

Ideally, each of these reformed version's would be originally named using name of either the reformer by either given name (Bjorn Germanic) or dynasty (Piast Slavic) once one of them becomes the dominant faith, it loses the first part to become X, the old religion becomes Old X, and any other versions can show up as possible heresies. By taking quick and easy path, you create a more fractious reformation process that is likely going to envelope your religion in inter-faith wars for generations to come.