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CK3 Dev Diary #1 - Dynasties & Houses

Greetings, and welcome to the first CK3 Feature Dev Diary!

As this is the first DD we want it to be extra juicy, and showcase something that we’re excited about - namely what we’re doing with Dynasties! Dynasties are immaterial yet fundamentally important things that make Crusader Kings what it is - your line must follow an unbroken line of members from your Dynasty; if your Dynasty ends, so does your game.

Now, the representation of Dynasties in CK2 was limited. A character belonged to a Dynasty, and that was that - you got a minor opinion boost with characters that were of the same one, and nothing more. In CK3, we really want to emphasize the power that Dynasties held, and their impact on the medieval world! We want you as the player to feel a bond with your Dynasty, and care for it. To achieve this, we’ve done a multitude of things!

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Firstly something that we know will especially please CK2 players, we’ve redefined what a Dynasty actually is - not a monolithic entity, but a collection of Houses. No longer will Dynasties have just one name, one Coat of Arms, and one identity - instead several Houses (aka Cadet Branches!) will be collected under the umbrella that is the Dynasty, working together (theoretically…) towards bringing renown upon the Dynasty!

So, what is a House?
Each Dynasty will have a Founding House (usually of the same name as the Dynasty), which is the first House of that Dynasty. As the game progresses, ruling Dynasty members that are distant by blood to the current House Head (more on this below) may choose to create a Cadet Branch - effectively creating a new House under the Dynasty. Creating a Cadet Branch makes the character creating it House Head (with the most powerful House Head becoming Dynast), and by extension free from the direct influence of their old House Head.

Making your own Cadet Branch requires quite a bit of prestige, that you do not stand to inherit your House Head’s titles, and that all of your Dynastic ancestors are dead (your father can’t be alive, for example). Cadet Branches/Houses come with a lot of flavor: their own names, Coat of Arms and Mottos, usually inspired by the location in which they are founded, and the founding character. For example, if a ruler of the Jimena Dynasty would create a Cadet Branch in southern France, they might be called the Toulouse-Jimenas, and so on.

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Now, what is a House Head or a Dynast?
Within a House there is always a leader, a House Head, that wields power over the rest of the members. A House Head has the power to legitimize bastards, call House members to war, and demand that they adhere to their Faith (refusal to convert will result in them creating a new Cadet Branch). The House Head also has inherent leverage on all House members born after they were made head, by virtue of getting a Hook on them (more on Hooks in another DD). They also gain passive prestige based upon the number of members in their House. House leadership follows the succession of the House Head, so that if you’re the leader of your House you will most likely keep that title on succession.

The Dynast, on the other hand, wields significantly more power than a House Head - with their power encompassing the members of all Houses of the entire Dynasty! The Dynast is always the most powerful House Head of a Dynasty, with leadership being updated on the death of the old Dynast. In addition to everything the House Head can do, the Dynast can also Disinherit/Restore Inheritance, Denounce/Forgive members of the Dynasty (which affects opinion in a major way), personally Claim titles held by Dynasty members, and make Dynasty members end wars they have against each other. All of these powers work against every member of the Dynasty, not just the House they’re a part of. The Dynast also gains prestige for every living member of the Dynasty. Being the Dynast is very powerful indeed, but you have to carefully weigh the powers against other benefits, as they cost Renown.

So what is Renown?
Renown is a resource accumulated by a Dynasty, and is used for several things. Firstly, all renown earned by a Dynasty counts towards its Level of Splendor. The Level of Splendor is the outward perception of the Dynasty, how well it is perceived in the eyes of the world, and affects the prestige you get on birth, the prestige when marrying into it, and the maximum long reign opinion you can get. Having a high level also makes it much easier to arrange marriages, especially with Dynasties below your level. Regardless of if Renown is spent or not, the Level of Splendor won’t decrease. The higher your Dynasty’s Level of Splendor, the more impressive its Coat of Arms frame will look. Peasant Dynasties will start at a negative Splendor level, which means that you’ll actually lose prestige for marrying them.

Renown itself is a spendable currency, representing the clout your Dynasty holds over itself. Its use is twofold; firstly it can be used for the most powerful Dynast interactions (getting claims, disinheriting, etc.) and secondly for unlocking Dynasty Legacies (more on this below).

The way you get Renown encourages you to mimic a ‘playstyle’ that was common in reality, but that wasn’t very practical in CK2 - spreading your Dynasty far and wide! You will gain renown for every ruler of your Dynasty that isn’t a subject under another member of your Dynasty. This is based on tier, which means that a King will give more Renown than a Duke, and so on. Marrying in such a way that your Dynasty ends up on the throne of a foreign realm is therefore useful for other reasons than to just murder them until you inherit their lands. Having your Dynasty spread out will give you more Renown, and thus a more powerful Dynasty overall. For example, if you’re playing as the King of England you will NOT gain renown from your landed vassal brother, but you WILL gain renown from your Dynastic cousin ruling a Duchy in the Holy Roman Empire. You will also gain renown from marrying away your dynasty to be spouses of powerful rulers, symbolizing your newfound influence in their realms. This gives you a reason to carefully plan the marriages of your kinsmen, even if you are not in need of an alliance!

So, what are Dynasty Legacies?
We all know that the playing field in Crusader Kings is a very volatile one, you might be Emperor of the World as one character, while being reduced to Count of Norfolk as the next. Dynasty Legacies offer some permanence in this otherwise very wild world, in the form of modifiers and unlocks that affect every member of your Dynasty. Essentially, by using Renown you get to shape what your Dynasty is known for. There’s a myriad of Legacies to choose from, all divided into tracks with an appropriately thematic name, such as ‘Kin’, ‘Guile’ or ‘Blood’. These aim to represent notions the world had (or has) about certain dynasties, i.e., that the Seljuks are warriors, the Abbasids lawmakers, the Habsburgs diplomats (and, ahem, prone to marrying their own kin), etc. Each Legacy track contains five unlocks, each costing a progressively higher amount of Renown to unlock.

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In this Dev Diary we will go into details on one of these tracks, “Blood” (which also happens to be my favorite). This track is designed for those of you who enjoy breeding traits into your family line, with the first few unlocks all focusing on increasing the chance of inheritance, emergence, and reinforcement of genetic traits (more on genetic traits in another DD). The last few unlocks will reduce the chance of negative traits appearing (essentially allowing for more.. ‘risky’ marriages), give you the chance to choose a genetic trait to be more common among your kin (i.e. beautiful, intelligent and strong… but also giant or dwarf. No matter how much I pleaded with art I couldn’t get a ‘Habsburg chin’ trait, though!), and finally rounding off with an increase to your Dynasty members Life Expectancy (which increases both their average age, and average fertility - this even means that women of your dynasty remain able to bear children for longer!).

Legacies take a long time to unlock, and you will have to work hard toward unlocking even one full track - though their power more than makes up for the wait. Legacies are chosen and unlocked by the Dynast, so make sure that you’re in control of your Dynasty.

That’s all for this time! We won’t spoil any more of the Legacy tracks for now, but rest assured that they all offer very interesting opportunities for you to shape your dynasty as you would like it! Next up we have a sneak preview of the map, stay tuned for the next DD.
 
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A concern I have is the Dynast may have too much power, relatives should be able to outright refuse your demands (maybe at the cost of prestige and dynasty opinion or something). Your family can be your allies, but they can also be your worst enemies, and I don't want to see something stupid like a kingdom being split between two brothers, and one just gives his share to the other because he is the Dynast.
 
The dynasty system sounds fantastic and I can't wait to see how it all ends up working in the end, as well as whether things like the merging of houses / dynasties would be possible. Like, say, if a husband and wife both meet the requirements for forming a house, they might split off to form their own dynasty and steal a little bit of renown from both of their former dynasties, as the new union may well be celebrated. Certainly not something possible in CK2 but I hope it might here.

Perhaps instead of affecting genetic traits, dynasty members without the genetic traits would get a chance to get an equivalent trait, e.g. brawny instead of strong, groomed instead of attractive, shrew instead of quick/genius. The idea being that the reputation of the dynasty doesn't affect the actual DNA of members, but rather inspires them to try and live up to the dynasty's reputation.

And also to keep the propagation mechanic, the chance could be increased during childhood if the parent(if child isn't in a different court than their dynastic parent) or guardian of the same dynasty has the genetic or equivalent trait.

Ooh, that would be perfect! It definitely fits in with a "Legacy" while not being pure magic. I feel like the Blood track is likely to be the most contentious so it's interesting that they chose to show it off first. I'm also hoping that there might be some sort of replacement for the Bloodlines system in that it was based off of individual achievements rather than the dynasty as a whole. Heck, even if it's just a list of achievements like the Kill list recently added to CK2, it's still something.
 
Sounds good, although I am not sure about unlocking out of character bonuses like a higher life expectancy.

I just hope that "Legacies take a long time to unlock, and you will have to work hard toward unlocking even one full track" really is true. The same was said about Traditions in Stellaris and as it turned out you usually completed all of them by midgame.
 
Whilst this all looks very interesting, I have a very minor quibble: could the position currently called "Dynast" be called something else? A dynast is simply someone who is a member of a (powerful), typically a male member. Calling the senior member of the dynasty the Dynast is just asking for confusion, as we no longer have the vocabulary to talk about, well, dynasts. Maybe Head of Dynasty or Senior Dynast?

(Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but it's hard to search for this term, for obvious reasons.)
 
Some people here be like:
*sees number*
"NOOOOO! MANAAAAA!"

You know who are good with numbers? Nerds. And you what mages are? That's right, nerds. And wizards use mana. Ergo, therefore and thus; numbers are mana.
 
@PDX-Nicou

A few questions:

1.Will Pagans have access to better Coat of Arms? The CoA available to Pagans in CK2 was extremely limited; and it seemed like every 10th randomly clicked on Pagan had the same CoA..
2. Does the Dynasty have it's own succession law? Can these laws be changed by the Dynast?
3. When the Head of a House forms a new Dynasty, will the new Dynasty get to keep any traits accumulated by the Dynasty it used to belong to, or do those traits reset to zero?
4. If I start out as the head of a Cadet, can I break away to form my own dynasty?
If so, do I get a new CoA on Dynasty formation?
5. Can a Cadet house spawn a Cadet House?
If so, is the new house considered a sub Cadet? or is it considered a co-equal House under the Dynasty
6. Can the Dynast disinherit any member of the Dynasty? including Landed ones?
a. For example, if someone is already a Duke, can he/she be disinherited causing his/her children to be no longer heirs?
b. Even if a disinherited family member is not already landed, if they have children are the children also disinherited by default or are/can they still be heirs?
c. Can a disinherited member of the Dynasty form their own Dynasty in response?
d. Do disinherited family get/retain claims?
If so, can those claims be inherited?
7. Can a recognized (but not legitimized) bastard form their own Cadet?
8. Will Ruler Designer be in the base game at launch?
If so, can we designate a ruler as a cadet of an existing house; or will it have to be a new House?
If a new House is created by the Ruler Designer will it automatically be a Dynasty as well?

Even if you can't answer all of these questions, any answers you can give would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for all the hard work you and your co-workers have put into one of the best games of any era and any genre.

While I would love to answer these questions, I'm afraid I have to vanish and report to my Spymaster at the moment... Rest assured, we have many more Dev Diaries, videos, pidgeons, courriers and things to share before Launch in 2020.
@rageair might be able to answer a few questions here, but do keep in mind that we aren't ready to detail everything at the moment :)
 
Strange thing, but I don't think I like Legacies as I understand them. With a lot of bonuses piling in for, essentially, "being around", it's nearly absolutely means it would not possible for dynasties to fall and die out. The same could be said about Bloodlines (which I love) but Bloodlines are linked to direct inheritance from parents, not to belonging to dynasty.
Imagine trying to get rid of Karlings if every Karling have twice the normal stats, health, loyality and fertility just for being Karling!
 
Strange thing, but I don't think I like Legacies as I understand them. With a lot of bonuses piling in for, essentially, "being around", it's nearly absolutely means it would not possible for dynasties to fall and die out. The same could be said about Bloodlines (which I love) but Bloodlines are linked to direct inheritance from parents, not to belonging to dynasty.
Imagine trying to get rid of Karlings if every Karling have twice the normal stats, health, loyality and fertility just for being Karling!
The way it's being described, it sounds less like this and more like every Karling is 3% (grabbing a number out of my butt) more likely than everyone else to have those traits slightly increased.
 
Strange thing, but I don't think I like Legacies as I understand them. With a lot of bonuses piling in for, essentially, "being around", it's nearly absolutely means it would not possible for dynasties to fall and die out. The same could be said about Bloodlines (which I love) but Bloodlines are linked to direct inheritance from parents, not to belonging to dynasty.
Imagine trying to get rid of Karlings if every Karling have twice the normal stats, health, loyality and fertility just for being Karling!
Bloodlines will have some of these bonuses - but it also means a very successful dynasty will have itself as it's main opponent. And besides, wouldn't it be fun to destroy a powerful house?
 
Amazing! But I wonder if cadet houses only exist in the Catholic Europe. Will there be special rules for eastern lieges and pagan tribes?
Hopefully it won't be restricted to Catholics.
This system sounds as if it could be translated to tribes and clans in the Arab world that @elvain has written extensively about.
Quraysh --> Banu Hashim (Hashimid in CK2), for instance.

It could also work well for the dynastic conflicts of Genghis Khans successors.
Borjigin --> Jochid, Chagataid, Ögedeid, Toluid.

In game terms, the Kaidu-Kublai War would be the head of the House of Ögedei challenging the head of the House of Tolui for the position of Dynast.

My main concern here is about the consistency of scope. If Capet is a house of the Robertine dynasty, then 'de Anjou' and 'de Valois' would be considered Robertine houses even though they're decedent directly from Capet. That's fine, but would you in the same vein consider the Abbasids to be part of the Quraysh while descending from the Hashimids? And the Borjigins themselves are a sub clan so they shouldn't really be represented as a dynasty either.

I'm not at all opposed to this but when looking at the inconsistency between houses and clans and dynasties in CK2, I'm afraid that mistakes will be repeated. It will take a lot of work.
 
Legacy Sun come off gave me no more gave than bloodline for sure. It's how your Dynasty is perceived and even nudging it slowly over Generations because this is going to take a long time to Max at a bar how your family is perceived.

Well, I never enjoyed bloodlines either. It gives too many freebies when the game is easy enough to begin with, is too easy to collect and felt gamey too.

As for taking a long time to max out... Starting as count, a few generations later my dynasty prestige is exploding, without really pushing. By the time I get my first kingdom I can marry with just about anybody (a century or two in the game), including emperors by virtue of prestige bonus from mariage. So I'm really skeptical about how "hard" it will effectively be (either it will be really easy for me the player, either it will take a while for me but the AI will never get a chance to fill it significantly).

Either way, how long it will take or not to fill I still find the bonus artificial. I personnaly don't mind losing my main title, I always hang on a claim somehow, or a strong powerbase that lets me get back my stuff in the rare occurence where I lose it. Even if I were to lose it for good, I also like to spread my dynasty here and there so that there is a lasting legacy for my dynasty beyond what I personnaly did.
 
I would maybe switch out the title of Dynast to Patriarch or something like that, because in most cases a dynast is just a legitimate member of a house, somewhere in the line of succession. There is no "the" dynast, an individual is just "a" dynast. For example, Franz Ferdinand was a dynast of the House of Habsburg-Lothringen, but his children, being from a morganatic marriage, were not. Neither are bastards of course. Using the word dynast to describe the most respected and prestigious member of a vast dynasty is just plain wrong.
 
I would maybe switch out the title of Dynast to Patriarch or something like that, because in most cases a dynast is just a legitimate member of a house, somewhere in the line of succession. There is no "the" dynast, an individual is just "a" dynast. For example, Franz Ferdinand was a dynast of the House of Habsburg-Lothringen, but his children, being from a morganatic marriage, were not. Neither are bastards of course. Using the word dynast to describe the most respected and prestigious member of a vast dynasty is just plain wrong.
"Dynast" is also a synonym in English for "sovereign ruler," so perhaps it will help to think of this usage as a fusion of the two meanings.