CK3 Dev Diary #14 - The Diplomacy Lifestyle

[Dragatus]

It's applied when children are born, and retroactively for any children you have before taking the perk.

Do both of those things apply to both child skill perks or does the first one apply to the first perk (Groomed to Rule) and the second one to the second perk (Sound Foundations)?

If both perks apply to all children that would make the earlier perk more powerful than the more advanced one, which seems strange. But if the stronger bonus applies only to future children that would justify making it an earlier perk.

I looked up our chat history, and there's one sequence there where you describe something you've found about it, and my response is "Wh- what...?", followed by "Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm", and then another 37 "m"s 10 minutes later. And finally two hours later:" Okay, so I have a theory"

The proper scientific word is hypothesis. That said, the bug hunting story is actually my favorite part of this DD.

 

[Bearnest]

You’re all familiar with the Friend relationship, but in CK3 it will feel more present than ever. In addition to being a lot more present in events, they also offer a few mechanical bonuses, such as being better Councillors.

I remember playing RoTK X and there was a system in which there were levels of friendship that you had to work hard for and spend a lot of time cultivating. Will CK3 implement something like this, or just the usual "Hello, nice to meet you, you're now my BFF"?

 

[FleetingRain]

Sometimes I ask myself why I felt so inspired when making events about the process of creating a massive piece of creative historical fiction on an unparalleled scale under impossible deadlines. I’m sure there’s nothing deeper to examine, there, though.

Please blink twice if you need help

 

[BrotherJonathan]

Nice work as usual. Glad that there's now an option to make alliances without a marriage.

 

[balmung60]

[Confidants - Each Friend adds: -15% Stress Gain]

Is this capped? Because I could see a character with several friends becoming completely immune to stress gain if it isn't.

 

[apg]

An enjoyable read.

 

[Rubidium]

It feels like the administrator tree would fit better under diplomacy , while the Family Heirarch would be better under stewardship. Maybe they would be called something else, but the perks seem more natural under the other focuses.

Family never felt like it should go under diplomacy, maybe there was no better place to put it in CK2, but as the head of your family, a steward or guardian or caretaker is what you strive to be. Making sure your children grow up well educated, trying to guide your family through its problems. And I think we all have seen firsthand how much stress family problems can cause, especially large ones.

While the administrator tree deals mainly with diplomacy within your realm. And going down that tree feels like a much more diverse set of bonuses that fit what you might expect from being a good diplomat than just extra diplomacy stats and prestige.

I doubt the devs will change it just because of what I think, but I hope they give a good look at it.

I actually like having different trees have some redundancy in how you deal with problems (note that Learning also has some opinion/realm boosts, and Intrigue also has ways of winning characters' loyalty, IYKWIM). That way, a character with high diplomacy, a character with high intrigue, high stewardship, etc., all have different ways of approaching the same problem, but they all have ways of approaching said problem.

Remember that schemes and the like are affected by stats/traits, which vary by character, but most rulers will face similar challenges. So you'll end up wanting to take the lifestyle that is most appropriate to your character, and then use the tools it gives you to solve those problems. In contrast, in CK2 each focus tended to be fairly narrowly focused on a specific need, so (outside of RP reasons) you chose the lifestyle that was most appropriate for your situation, not your character (and also had the result that some lifestyles were just plain better: even my dumbest character took scholarship for 5 years to finish the observatory chain for free tech points, while even lustful characters only really took seduction if I needed to go on a seduction spree, either for bastard generation or opinion boosts).

 

[vandevere]

Is this capped? Because I could see a character with several friends becoming completely immune to stress gain if it isn't.

On the other hand, if it's capped too harshly, virtually EVERY Ruler will be stressed to the max, and that's just as bad for gameplay...

 

[Andrzej I]

On the other hand, if it's capped too harshly, virtually EVERY Ruler will be stressed to the max, and that's just as bad for gameplay...

One would hope you won't need the Confidants perk to deal with stress. As such, I agree with @balmung60 that I hope that perk won't lead to a total immunity from stress mechanics, allowing players to play entirely against character traits with impunity.

 

[JSB217118]

Are there going to be any updates on start dates?

 

[Pied-Noir]

Are there going to be any updates on start dates?

So far 867 and 1066 are confirmed - they refuse to comment on 936.

 

[Rhapture]

I actually like having different trees have some redundancy in how you deal with problems (note that Learning also has some opinion/realm boosts, and Intrigue also has ways of winning characters' loyalty, IYKWIM). That way, a character with high diplomacy, a character with high intrigue, high stewardship, etc., all have different ways of approaching the same problem, but they all have ways of approaching said problem.

Remember that schemes and the like are affected by stats/traits, which vary by character, but most rulers will face similar challenges. So you'll end up wanting to take the lifestyle that is most appropriate to your character, and then use the tools it gives you to solve those problems. In contrast, in CK2 each focus tended to be fairly narrowly focused on a specific need, so (outside of RP reasons) you chose the lifestyle that was most appropriate for your situation, not your character (and also had the result that some lifestyles were just plain better: even my dumbest character took scholarship for 5 years to finish the observatory chain for free tech points, while even lustful characters only really took seduction if I needed to go on a seduction spree, either for bastard generation or opinion boosts).

We really dont know how schemes or anything will play out, as the dev diaries have said that events will mostly be based on what focus you take. In Ck2, you had different options available to events if you had a high skill level or a certain trait. But if the events in CK3 are based on which focus you took, and you took Diplomacy focus because you wanted to level it higher, we aren't sure how the options will play out, especially since a lot will be determined based on the traits of the characters you are interacting with and not just your own.
Maybe you have high intrigue skills, but there isn't an intrigue option for the diplomatic event chain you are in.

Anyway my original post went more to more to your point about redundancy.

These are the names and effects of Administrator:

[Likable - Direct Vassal Opinion: +10, Liege Opinion: +20]
[Positions of Power - Councillor Opinion: +20]
[Toe the Line - Your Vassals are less likely to join Independence Factions]
[Chains of Loyalty - Domestic Affairs efficiency: +25%]
[Soon Forgiven - Monthly Tyranny: -0.05]
[Large Levies - Vassal Levy contribution: +10%]
[Honored to Serve - Happy Powerful Vassal Tax contribution: +25%, Happy Powerful Vassal Levy contribution: +25%]
[Meritocracy - You can use Claim Throne against your Liege]

To me those all sound like they fall under diplomacy. But not every effect is an opinion boost or + to diplomacy skill. Being a good diplomat would mean your vassals are more likely to help you out, more likely to deal with a tyrannical choice or two you have to make.

These are from the Family Heirarch:

[Befriend - You can use the Befriend Scheme]
[Confidants - Each Friend adds: -15% Stress Gain]
[Friendly Counsel - Each Friend gives 2 random Skill points]
[Flatterer - Befriend Scheme Power: +30%]
[Thicker Than Water - Personal Scheme Success Chance: +50% against family members]
[Heart of the Family - Close Family Opinion: +20]
[Groomed to Rule - Children receive 1 to 3 extra Skill points]
[Sound Foundations - Each living Child give 1 random Skill point]

Now these aren't so obviously related what we have come to understand what Stewardship means in Ck2. That usually dealt with economies and efficiency . But it also increases the chances of stress. And since stress will play a much bigger and diverse roll (based on what ive read so far) This tree seems to fit here. It requires one to not automatically roll everything you know about CK2 into CK3. My theory , based on the descriptions of the bonuses, is that friends will help you rule your realm more efficiently. And that you will provide sound education for your children. As head of your family it requires good relations with others of your dynasty. They will see you are doing a good job managing your realm.

 

[Rubidium]

We really dont know how schemes or anything will play out, as the dev diaries have said that events will mostly be based on what focus you take. In Ck2, you had different options available to events if you had a high skill level or a certain trait.

We actually do know that schemes are affected by the relevant stats.

Per DD#5: "Each month, a Scheme has a chance of progressing one step, with the odds determined by the Owner’s Scheme Power, and the Target’s Scheme Resistance. These two values are based on the relevant Skill (Intrigue in the case of Murder) but are also affected by Spymasters (in the case of Intrigue-type schemes), various modifiers, and of course - the Owner’s Agents." So it won't be the only thing, but will be a big one.

Which is why it's important to have different options to use different skills to handle similar problems.

These are the names and effects of Administrator:

[Likable - Direct Vassal Opinion: +10, Liege Opinion: +20]
[Positions of Power - Councillor Opinion: +20]
[Toe the Line - Your Vassals are less likely to join Independence Factions]
[Chains of Loyalty - Domestic Affairs efficiency: +25%]
[Soon Forgiven - Monthly Tyranny: -0.05]
[Large Levies - Vassal Levy contribution: +10%]
[Honored to Serve - Happy Powerful Vassal Tax contribution: +25%, Happy Powerful Vassal Levy contribution: +25%]
[Meritocracy - You can use Claim Throne against your Liege]

To me those all sound like they fall under diplomacy. But not every effect is an opinion boost or + to diplomacy skill. Being a good diplomat would mean your vassals are more likely to help you out, more likely to deal with a tyrannical choice or two you have to make.

Or, they involve learning how to use (or tweak) the existing rules and regulations to make a more harmonious realm: the very essence of stewardship.

But again, it's clearly a game design choice to give stewardship-focused characters a way to use their stewardship to handle the normal problems of disloyal vassals. Which is a good thing (and avoids the old CK2 issue where stats were decidedly unequal in value). As a good diplomat, presumably you already have a naturally higher opinion bonus with your vassals, but a good steward may not; this lifestyle gives you a chance to use what you are good at (dealing with laws, administration, etc.) to shore up that weakness.

These are from the Family Heirarch:

[Befriend - You can use the Befriend Scheme]
[Confidants - Each Friend adds: -15% Stress Gain]
[Friendly Counsel - Each Friend gives 2 random Skill points]
[Flatterer - Befriend Scheme Power: +30%]
[Thicker Than Water - Personal Scheme Success Chance: +50% against family members]
[Heart of the Family - Close Family Opinion: +20]
[Groomed to Rule - Children receive 1 to 3 extra Skill points]
[Sound Foundations - Each living Child give 1 random Skill point]

Now these aren't so obviously related what we have come to understand what Stewardship means in Ck2. That usually dealt with economies and efficiency . But it also increases the chances of stress. And since stress will play a much bigger and diverse roll (based on what ive read so far) This tree seems to fit here. It requires one to not automatically roll everything you know about CK2 into CK3. My theory , based on the descriptions of the bonuses, is that friends will help you rule your realm more efficiently. And that you will provide sound education for your children. As head of your family it requires good relations with others of your dynasty. They will see you are doing a good job managing your realm.

I'm confused why you think that managing a realm and dealing with vassals properly is Diplomacy, but keeping your family and friends happy is Stewardship. But more seriously, dealing with your family and friends is very much about interpersonal relations, in a way that administration really isn't.

But again, it's clearly intended that each lifestyle gives you tools to deal with all the common problems rulers face (disloyal vassals, powerful enemies, succession issues, money shortages, etc.) but in different ways. Remember that you are not designed to be switching lifestyles at the drop of a hat; it's clearly intended behavior that you will fill out a tree before switching. Rather than making the Diplomacy tree the "make people like me more" lifestyle of choice, while the Intrigue is the "make enemies disappear" lifestyle of choice (which run into the issue that you need people to like you much more often than you need enemies to disappear), any stat-associated lifestyle has ways of dealing with these situations, so you don't end up stuck in a situation where you desperately need to make people like you but only know how to stab people to death (or if you do, it's because you screwed up and went too hard on the stabby option, not because you chose the wrong focus and are stuck with it for 5 years before being allowed to change). Again, how you deal with that situation as an Intrigue-user will be different than a Diplomat (you'll probably make heavier use of blackmail and/or seduction rather than befriending them), but you won't be without tools just because you wanted to give the "Secret Agent Man" lifestyle a go instead of Carousing again.

 

[J.B.]

It feels odd that a perk should determine whether you can propose alliances without a marriage. Either people should be able to or not. It shouldn't depend on a lifestyle choice whether others would entertain the idea.

To your point, now I wonder how my usual non-Ironman mode character will go. I normally play a celibate immortal character that does not get married and have children. How can I enter into alliances, at all? This is a legitimate concern for at least some people, I think. I would rather not have my playing style interfered, and have to arbitrarily go with a diplomacy focus every time I start a new character, due to what seems to be way the game works. I want to be able to have alliances with characters/kingdoms and have a military, stewardship, or learning focus, too, not just diplomacy, so that I could circumvent the apparent marriage requirement.

 

[Voffvoffhunden]

@Snow Crystal - MAKE HIM STOP!!!

You're on the CK3 forums now. There's no one here to save you.

What interesting antics did the AI get into in those? (That you noticed upon coming back from AFK)

We see some weird antics all the time, some that are fun, and some where we have to analyze for potential issues. Just the other day we were all scratching our heads over how the one remaining Finnish pagan province in the world was in Northern Italy.

We can make friends? Kind of unrealistic don't you think?

It's called a power fantasy for a reason.

The proper scientific word is hypothesis.

Good thing we're hardly scientists over here

Please blink twice if you need help

Is this capped? Because I could see a character with several friends becoming completely immune to stress gain if it isn't.

There's a soft cap in terms of how many friendships you can reasonably maintain without getting stressed out over it.

We really dont know how schemes or anything will play out, as the dev diaries have said that events will mostly be based on what focus you take.

The Lifestyle Events are determined by your focus (and will be a large portion of the events that fire for a character), but a number of events will also be fired from other sources (such as Schemes) independently of your Lifestyle.

 

[Pied-Noir]

@Voffvoffhunden - I don't imagine it will be anytime soon but it would be nice if you could plan to include a Dev diary on the Byzantine Empire and its mechanics eventually.

 

[Alfray Stryke]

You're on the CK3 forums now. There's no one here to save you.


We see some weird antics all the time, some that are fun, and some where we have to analyze for potential issues. Just the other day we were all scratching our heads over how the one remaining Finnish pagan province in the world was in Northern Italy.


It's called a power fantasy for a reason.


Good thing we're hardly scientists over here









There's a soft cap in terms of how many friendships you can reasonably maintain without getting stressed out over it.


The Lifestyle Events are determined by your focus (and will be a large portion of the events that fire for a character), but a number of events will also be fired from other sources (such as Schemes) independently of your Lifestyle.

So if my lifestyle is set to the “Play Paradox games” focus, what type of events should I expect?

 

[Denkt]

So if my lifestyle is set to the “Play Paradox games” focus, what type of events should I expect?

Waste of time events.

 

[Voffvoffhunden]

So if my lifestyle is set to the “Play Paradox games” focus, what type of events should I expect?

Stress reductions from chilling with your favourite game, Stress gain from being teased by devs on the forums.

It's a blessing and a curse, but maybe mostly a curse.

 

[Spaninq]

Waste of time events.

No, those are for the "Posting new threads on the CK3 Forum" Focus