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CK3 Dev Diary #2- The Medieval Map

Hello everyone!

I would like to take a moment to talk about the map of Crusader Kings 3, what the vision for the map is, and how it is different from Crusader Kings 2.

Let’s start with our ambitions. CK2 had several parts of the map that was outdated, and to be frank, a bit underdeveloped. When we started to update the map for CK3, we knew that we wanted to take a pass at everything, do additional research, and update the different areas accordingly. This goes for the entire De Jure title hierarchy, so there are several new kingdoms and duchies present. In terms of scope, the map will roughly match that of CK2. I know I will disappoint those of you hoping for China, but, sadly, it will not be on the map. We will however, have a few new additions: the entirety of Tibet will be present, unlike CK2 where the most eastern parts were excluded, and sub-Saharan Africa is also extended, where we’ve gone all the way to the Nigerian coast.

When setting the map visuals, province layout, rivers, and more, the focus has always been on clarity. The map should be easy to read and get information from. For example, you should be able to read most of the terrain simply by looking at the map, without the need to click on the province, or tooltip it, in order to find that out, while rivers should be easy to see and let you know if you will cross one when moving armies around.

We represent the map on three different zoom levels. When zoomed far out, the map will turn into an actual paper map, allowing for an easy overview and stylish screenshots. Zoom in a bit and you will have the 3D map, with the typical political overlay, great for interacting with your vassals and other realms. Zoom in even further and you’ll see the names of all the counties along with the terrain, as we strip away the realm colors. Perfect for moving armies around and knowing where to pick your battles, without the need to switch around to different map modes (but don’t worry, we still have several map modes for easily accessing different information).

One of the most notable changes is how we handle Baronies. In CK2, Counties were the smallest entity we had on the map, a province if you will, with several Baronies represented through the interface of the County view. In CK3, we took the next logical step and made Baronies into their own provinces. We have been able to create a map with much more granularity and better accuracy. Most Counties will normally consist of two to five Baronies, with some exceptions. The amount of provinces will be noticeable when waging war, as it offers a larger degree of movement for you armies (more on that in the future).

dd_02_baronies.png


To give you a good idea of the increased province density, here is a comparison of the British Islands in CK2 and CK3, being on the left and right side, respectively:

dd_02_ck2_ck3_comparison.png


Before you all go nuts about playable baronies: No. You cannot play as a Baron. The lowest playable rank will still be that of a Count. The emphasis will therefore be on the Counties rather than the individual Baronies. As such, Baronies exist with a few things in mind. For example, they can never leave a county. This means Counties stay the same over time, avoiding weird splits where a single barony goes independent or to another realm (reducing that hideous border-gore ever-so-slightly). The number of Baronies within a County is one factor that represents its wealth and how “good” it is. Another important factor is the terrain. A County with a lot of Desert will not be as beneficial as one with a lot of Farmlands for example.

Speaking of terrain, we have several different terrain types spread out across the map. Instead of having a single terrain spread out across large areas of the map, we differentiate between similar terrain types by separating them, such as Forest and Taiga, or Plains and Drylands. Not only does it make the map look and feel distinct in different parts of the world, they also have a different impact on gameplay.

dd_02_england.png


dd_02_maghreb.png


Then we have Impassable Terrain. These are far more frequent, and in many cases much larger, than you will be used to from CK2. We’ve essentially used these for any area that we consider uninhabited enough to warrant it not being part of an existing County. Some areas have plenty of smaller impassable provinces, such as the mountains surrounding Bohemia, while others have fewer and far larger pieces of inhospitable land, such as the deserts of Arabia and Syria. Impassable Terrain cannot be traversed by armies, often creating bottlenecks that you’ll have to pass through or perhaps even choose to go around, should it be heavily fortified.

dd_02_impassable.png


That’s it for now. I hope you enjoyed this early sneak peak of the map and I'll be sure to show more to you in the future!
 
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Just a few questions as a bit confused in places.

1. The map looks lovely, but was the GB map including holdings such as baronies, or is that provinces? I expect the former, & if so how many extra provinces are there.
2. You say baronies & presumably other holdings cannot be taken by different lieges, but what about as in CK2 when a province could be split due to fighting multiple wars, & one Liege could have the main holding, & another owning minor ones. Example Castille & Aragon fighting Muslim Emir for say Seville, Castille wins County of Seville, Aragon, a religious & city holdings, & the rest staying with a muslim lord who say has revolted.
3. Are Bishoprics & Cities in from the start of game, or do you have to build them, or are they just not in the screenshots.
 
No. You can still inherit baronies from your own counties, but not from a county belonging to someone else. If such a situation would happen, it will be inherited by the county holder instead.
I have 2 questions regarding baronies.

1: barons will always report into the person who owned the county and never the Duke, king or emperor above them 8s this correct?

2: wi we still be able to personally hold onto baronies in counties that we personally hold?
 
Another question.

As holdings are now individually on map I presume you conquer them differently now? In CK2 you would go to province & siege holdings, starting with main one at top, then work down. Does this now mean you have to siege down all holdings in different sieges. For instance at start of game for Norfolk would be four different sieges.
 
As such, Baronies exist with a few things in mind. For example, they can never leave a county. This means Counties stay the same over time, avoiding weird splits where a single barony goes independent or to another realm (reducing that hideous border-gore ever-so-slightly).
Improving gameplay in game of border-gore by reducing border-gore?
CK2 for me was 3 main things: ruling, plotting and making more border-gore (or reducing it sometimes).
Hideous? How developer of successor of best border-gore game ever can write: "hideous border-gore". It's not hideous, it's beautiful, it's historic, it's why we choose CK instead of Civ or TotalWar or even EU4.
Really, border-gore is one of best features of CK2 - you have to use imagination, think in another levels of abstraction. That's why this game is so much fun! And now it could even be seen on the map! :( Sadly, it could but it won't...

I really have no idea why developers choose to make wider map then deeper. It's new way of making games in PDX? Everything big and wide but very flat?
 
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Hello everyone!

I would like to take a moment to talk about the map of Crusader Kings 3, what the vision for the map is, and how it is different from Crusader Kings 2.

Let’s start with our ambitions. CK2 had several parts of the map that was outdated, and to be frank, a bit underdeveloped. When we started to update the map for CK3, we knew that we wanted to take a pass at everything, do additional research, and update the different areas accordingly. This goes for the entire De Jure title hierarchy, so there are several new kingdoms and duchies present. In terms of scope, the map will roughly match that of CK2. I know I will disappoint those of you hoping for China, but, sadly, it will not be on the map. We will however, have a few new additions: the entirety of Tibet will be present, unlike CK2 where the most eastern parts were excluded, and sub-Saharan Africa is also extended, where we’ve gone all the way to the Nigerian coast.

When setting the map visuals, province layout, rivers, and more, the focus has always been on clarity. The map should be easy to read and get information from. For example, you should be able to read most of the terrain simply by looking at the map, without the need to click on the province, or tooltip it, in order to find that out, while rivers should be easy to see and let you know if you will cross one when moving armies around.

We represent the map on three different zoom levels. When zoomed far out, the map will turn into an actual paper map, allowing for an easy overview and stylish screenshots. Zoom in a bit and you will have the 3D map, with the typical political overlay, great for interacting with your vassals and other realms. Zoom in even further and you’ll see the names of all the counties along with the terrain, as we strip away the realm colors. Perfect for moving armies around and knowing where to pick your battles, without the need to switch around to different map modes (but don’t worry, we still have several map modes for easily accessing different information).

One of the most notable changes is how we handle Baronies. In CK2, Counties were the smallest entity we had on the map, a province if you will, with several Baronies represented through the interface of the County view. In CK3, we took the next logical step and made Baronies into their own provinces. We have been able to create a map with much more granularity and better accuracy. Most Counties will normally consist of two to five Baronies, with some exceptions. The amount of provinces will be noticeable when waging war, as it offers a larger degree of movement for you armies (more on that in the future).

View attachment 523607

To give you a good idea of the increased province density, here is a comparison of the British Islands in CK2 and CK3, being on the left and right side, respectively:

View attachment 523608

Before you all go nuts about playable baronies: No. You cannot play as a Baron. The lowest playable rank will still be that of a Count. The emphasis will therefore be on the Counties rather than the individual Baronies. As such, Baronies exist with a few things in mind. For example, they can never leave a county. This means Counties stay the same over time, avoiding weird splits where a single barony goes independent or to another realm (reducing that hideous border-gore ever-so-slightly). The number of Baronies within a County is one factor that represents its wealth and how “good” it is. Another important factor is the terrain. A County with a lot of Desert will not be as beneficial as one with a lot of Farmlands for example.

Speaking of terrain, we have several different terrain types spread out across the map. Instead of having a single terrain spread out across large areas of the map, we differentiate between similar terrain types by separating them, such as Forest and Taiga, or Plains and Drylands. Not only does it make the map look and feel distinct in different parts of the world, they also have a different impact on gameplay.

View attachment 523605

View attachment 523604

Then we have Impassable Terrain. These are far more frequent, and in many cases much larger, than you will be used to from CK2. We’ve essentially used these for any area that we consider uninhabited enough to warrant it not being part of an existing County. Some areas have plenty of smaller impassable provinces, such as the mountains surrounding Bohemia, while others have fewer and far larger pieces of inhospitable land, such as the deserts of Arabia and Syria. Impassable Terrain cannot be traversed by armies, often creating bottlenecks that you’ll have to pass through or perhaps even choose to go around, should it be heavily fortified.

View attachment 523606

That’s it for now. I hope you enjoyed this early sneak peak of the map and I'll be sure to show more to you in the future!
Can't say I'm not a bit disappointed, I was expecting to see a screenshot of the whole map in this DD...

That said, you guys really need to work on those barony and county borders (the dotted and double lines when zoomed in), some terrain types (like forests and mountains) makes it impossible to see them.
Maybe make them a different color when passing through such terrains or something, anything to make them visible.
That is quite urgent imo.
 
I had no idea people cared so much about baronies. Having baronies in your lands either owned or vassalized by others was only ever annoying to me. It never really added anything to gameplay for me except annoying extra wars.

I do understand the concern about holy orders and their baronies, but again, the old system wasn't great either. Maybe there is something better being introduced.
 
this whole thing about playable barons is pointless. If you played as a Baron guess what? Your first goal is to become a count, you become a count in 20 years. Ok, now you have typical CK gameplay starting as a count. what's even the point of that? It wouldn't make sense any other way, unless you think it's sensible that in baron-level gameplay you would conquer a bunch of baronies then become a count, like how a count conquers counties to become a duke, duke conquers duchies to become a king, etc - which I would find absurd, personally. All it would do is add a small amount of lower-tier gameplay before you're back to a typical Crusader Kings game.
 
I like Barons and Mayors because they're primarily what I use to fill my Council.
 
With the increased attention to detail, will we be able to have the terrain showing while using our "realms" display? I think it would be really interesting to see all of the hard work put into the scenery while using that mode (perhaps by using an optional toggle in the video options or something?), as it's almost always what players spend their time using.
 
Seems like a lot of people don't understand the sheer volumes of problems letting people play baornies would cause.

Not to mention from a game design standpoint it makes no sense. Sitring doing nothing for 20 years on 5 speed until you become a count doesn't make for fun gameplay.
 
Don't want to hate or anything, but the terrain art style is a bit odd. It's very different from what we've been used to, and it may take me a while to get accomodated to it. The map looks very dull and dark.

I was hoping for a more detailed art style, similar in a way to Imperator:Rome. It's awesome that we get to see the terrain type in a glance, although the trees could really use some love
 
I had no idea people cared so much about baronies. Having baronies in your lands either owned or vassalized by others was only ever annoying to me. It never really added anything to gameplay for me except annoying extra wars.

I do understand the concern about holy orders and their baronies, but again, the old system wasn't great either. Maybe there is something better being introduced.
While I dont feel anything for playable barons I do think that barony border-gore adds a certain charml. Inheritance is a messy business after all. I don't see how using the enclave rules cant solve the issue of extremes, russian prince owning a castle in andalusia, but lets a german border count keep his castle in france. I feel this is a big loss for simulation in favour for map painting.
 
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No. You can still inherit baronies from your own counties, but not from a county belonging to someone else. If such a situation would happen, it will be inherited by the county holder instead.

So this is a removed feature. Regardless whether one likes this (I don't actually care a lot), what are the reasons to remove it? Lessons from CK2 and effort to 'streamline' or does this mechanic conflict with specific changes in CK3?
 
Map looks good and nice to have more of Tibet and Africa. Only thing that I am concerned about is the number of baronies/holdings. If each province in CK3 represent one barony/holding will this not mean that there will be fewer overall baronies/holdings in CK3 than in CK2, which had less provinces but could hold up to 7 holdings in some cases?