• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

CK3 Dev Diary #36 - Gotta Go Fast

Good afternoon everyone,

I’m Magne “Meneth” Skjæran, one of the programmers on Crusader Kings 3. You might know me from my work on CK2 and the Paradox Wikis. Of particular relevance today is my work on performance and AI in CK2. Today I’m going to talk about how we’ve worked with these two areas in CK3 to ensure a better game experience than CK2.

Performance
Let's start off by talking about performance.
Over the course of CK2’s lifecycle we made numerous improvements to performance, and when Holy Fury released it was the best it has ever been. The release version today feels like molasses compared to how the game performs after its long and venerated life.
CK2 has been a standout amongst PDS’ games when it comes to performance, which means we have a lot we have to live up to. As such performance has been a priority throughout the development of CK3, and especially as it has neared release. Our approach to a number of tech systems differ from CK2 for the sake of performance, and this has given us some great results.

The two systems that differ the most from CK2 for the sake of performance are threading and rendering. The two are heavily intertwined, so much so that you can’t really talk about one without talking about the other.
In CK2 our approach was pretty simple. The game as a whole was structured around the main thread. The main task of the main thread was to update the gamestate so the game progresses. In order to render frames so the users can see what’s going on, it would periodically stop updating the gamestate in order to make a frame instead. The rendering would then take over entirely until done with the frame.
During gamestate updates it would thread a large number of different operations. The way we structured this in CK2 was largely based around the characters themselves. The daily update for characters were split into a handful of segments with different rules for parallelization. For instance, during one part it would be illegal for one character to check any information that belongs to another character. During another, it would be illegal for it to change any information it owns that is visible to other characters. These restrictions meant that these updates could be done in parallel; each thread doing the same section for a different character. In practice it worked reasonably well; CK2 is a heavily parallel game and has had significant speed gains from increased parallelization. Similar setups were applied to other objects too, like titles, plots, etc.
However, there were also some significant drawbacks. The biggest one being the various rules on what the programmer can and cannot do in each update. Violating one of these rules would generally result in an OOS, breaking the multiplayer experience. Occasionally it could even crash the game. There was also a significant overhead in having to process every character in the game with most checks just resulting in “we have no need to do this part of the update”.

So in CK3 we replaced this system entirely. We moved from object-level parallelism to system-level parallelism. Now instead of processing several characters at the same time we instead process several different systems. For instance, we might update the scheme system at the same time as the opinion system. This allowed us to simplify the rules of what you can and cannot do massively: now during parallelism the only limitation is that we can’t change any visible information; we must instead store the changes we want to do and then apply them a bit later in series. Simplifying the rules means that fewer bugs are introduced, in particular OOSes. And it tends to be easier to identify what could be parallelized than it was in CK2, resulting in more work being done in parallel than before.
pasted image 0.png

[A chart of time spent on most of the parallel updates]

Furthermore, this works great with CK3’s new approach to rendering. In CK3 rendering is a separate thread rather than done on the main thread. It still needs to synchronize a lot with the main thread, as we can’t be checking an object that’s being changed. So we have a system of locks; when the render thread needs to access the gamestate, the gamestate isn’t allowed to change itself, and when the gamestate is changing itself, the render thread must wait until it can access the gamestate. Similarly to CK2, the gamestate will while updating itself periodically check if the render thread needs access, in which case it’ll hand off control for a short while. But the big difference is that a significant part of the work done on the render thread does not require any access to the gamestate, and can thus be done in parallel with the gamestate update.
And do you remember the rule I mentioned earlier? The parallel updates to the gamestate aren’t allowed to change visible state, so during these updates it is safe to update the render thread. So overall the section where the render thread might have to wait is pretty small, and it ends up doing most of its work at the same time as the gamestate.
Now, we do still have some object-level parallelism left, most notably the AI. But the AI in CK3 is set up to never change the gamestate directly, so rendering can continue while the AI figures out what to do.

Overall these changes have meant that CK3 has better thread utilization than CK2, a more stable framerate, and that it is harder for programmers to make threading mistakes that lead to bugs, OOSes, and crashes.

For a point of comparison, I did a quick test on my machine comparing CK2 and CK3. I simply let the game run at full speed for a minute, and compared the frame rate and how far the game progressed. Both games got equally far in; starting in September 1066 they both got to April 1069. However, CK3’s frame rate was much higher and more stable than CK2’s. Considering CK3’s far better graphics, these results are exactly what I was hoping for.

Let's take a look at the difference threading makes. I set up a simple test; I ran the game for 1 minute on my machine at max speed, first with threading fully enabled, then with threading disabled. You can see it for yourself below. Left is with threading, right is without:
The red line you see in the video is the time between each frame. For 60 FPS it should be at or below the green horizontal line.
As you see, the difference is staggering. Without threading the framerate is dreadful, and the game progresses far more slowly. With threading the game progressed 958 days, while without it only progressed 546 days. That is, it ran 75% faster with threading, and with a far far better framerate.
The machine I’m running this on is my home PC, which at the time of recording had an i7 4770K, a GTX 1080, and 16 GB of 2400 MHz RAM, running at the highest graphical settings. The CPU and RAM are both quite old and by this point far outperformed by newer models, though the GPU is still solid. Max speed on this is high enough that I almost never use it in normal play, instead mostly using speed 3 and 4.

So beyond what has been mentioned, how do we work with performance on CK3? We periodically dedicate time to ensuring that any new performance issues are dealt with, and investigating opportunities for further improvement. This often means increased threading, or reworking systems to be more performant. One of my favorite ways to make the game faster however, is by slightly modifying the design to avoid expensive calculations that the player won’t be affected by. To take one example we update the progress of the player’s council tasks every single day. But for the AI we only do so once a month. The player is unlikely to ever notice the difference, but this way we reduce the cost of these updates to 1/30 of what they otherwise would be. Optimizations like this are all over the place in CK3 (and to some extent in CK2); there are a lot of small shortcuts that can be done that have a huge impact on performance but little or no impact on the player experience.

AI
Now it is time to talk a bit about the AI as well.
The person who has been in charge of AI for most of CK3’s development is Niklas “Captain Gars” Strid, but he’s currently on parental leave. For the last year or so I’ve been helping out with the AI, and now in his absence the full responsibility of it has fallen on me.
Since I didn’t design the AI, this is going to be briefer than it might’ve been if Niklas was here to write it, but I’ll cover some of the basic ideas behind how we’ve handled the AI in CK3.

Our main goal with the AI has been that it should make the game more fun for the player. This has several aspects to it:
  • It should provide some level of challenge, because steamrolling from the get go isn’t fun
  • It should avoid doing things that are frustrating, even if it would make it “smarter”
  • It should feel as if it’s a plausible actor within a Medieval world
These goals all have both overlap, and parts where they’re in opposition to one another. For instance, avoiding frustration does result in a slightly less challenging AI, but that’s often a sacrifice that makes sense.

One of the biggest structural changes in CK3’s AI is how it deals with its military. In CK2, if there were multiple AIs on the same side in a war, they would essentially act independently from one another with some systems for coordination. This usually worked fine, but sometimes it’d lead to a lack of coordination between allies and the AI taking odd decisions.
In CK3 we’ve designed the system from the ground up to handle multiple AIs on the same side. Instead of each AI commanding their own troops, they assign their troops to a war coordinator that handles all decision making; the individual decision making is just what troops to assign (which kicks in if there’s more than one war they could participate in).
As such AIs tend to act in a much more coordinated manner.
However, that doesn’t address coordination with the player. CK2’s approach here in the end was to introduce an AI order system where you’d simply tell the AI what to do. We don’t currently have that in CK3, but the AI still has a focus on assisting the player. Generally speaking the AI will try to keep its armies very close to the player, and help out in battles even if those battles will be lost with its help. An AI order system like in CK2 might still improve this further, but the gap is much smaller than in CK2 so we decided it would not be a priority for release. Additionally, the existence of the order system in CK2 significantly complicated the AI code, making further development of it more difficult, so there’s a tradeoff to be considered when it comes to the # of bugs it’ll introduce, and the slowdown to AI development it would be likely to cause.

So that covered “provide some level of challenge”, but what about avoiding frustration? There’s a lot of small things here and there designed to do that, but let’s talk about a couple of concrete examples. In CK3 the AI has a system I tend to call “stand and fight”. If the player (or any other enemy) is near its army, will beat it, and there’s no real hope of winning the war as all its troops are already gathered, then instead of running away the AI will find a nearby defensive location and wait there for up to a month for the enemy to wipe it out. This way instead of dragging its demise out it makes a last stand in a good location. The result is that the player doesn’t have to chase down armies nearly as much as in CK2, but that it only tends to kick in for wars the player is clearly going to win regardless.
Similarly, often the game design itself is created with the AI at least partially in mind. We’ve talked about the fort mechanics earlier, but the quick recap is that walking deep into enemy territory without sieging first is going to kill most of your troops. The AI will thus virtually never do it, so when you’re behind your own lines you have the time to regroup and figure out what to do. Similarly, there’s little temptation to try to chase down the AI deep into its territory. This helps keep the focus more on siege warfare, which is very fitting for the era.
It contributes to every goal I’ve mentioned: The AI ends up better due to there being fewer options available, so we could make it smarter in picking between those. The player gets less frustrated. And it emphasises a historical aspect of the era, while avoiding silly chases halfway around the world.

Now, that’s been a whole lot of talk about military AI. What about the rest of it? The overall approach there’s generally pretty similar to CK2, though rebuilt from scratch. The AI will periodically check a variety of possible actions, and take them if they make sense. There’s some randomization, and AI personality affects a variety of actions, to ensure that the game feels alive rather than deterministic.
More of the AI can be modded than in CK2, as the interaction system has far less hardcoding. There’s still parts that are hardcoded, such as actions that aren’t interactions, but overall it should be possible to influence a bit more of the AI than in CK2.
Reduced hardcoding has also meant that balancing the AI is easier for us than in CK2, as a programmer doesn’t always have to be involved. Especially once we get feedback from a large player base after release, this and various architectural improvements in the code compared to CK2 should make iterating on the AI easier than before.
Huge parts of what other characters do is also handled by events and so on to a greater extent than in CK2.

Generally speaking, the goal of the non-military AI is to make the world feel alive. This has occasionally meant needing some restrictions to ensure the player doesn’t get overwhelmed. For instance, we’ve had to on numerous occasions restrict seduction against the player so that they don’t get absolutely spammed if they happen to play one of the few female rulers around at game start.

Overall the AI should in many ways feel similar to in CK2, but with more of a focus on making the best possible experience for the player. After release it should be easier for us to further improve on the AI than it was in CK2.
PC Upgrade
20200727_221955 (1).jpg

[My newly upgraded PC]
Funnily enough, between when I first wrote this dev diary and when it was set to go out, I decided that it was finally time to upgrade my PC. I replaced my aging i7 4770K with a nice modern Ryzen 9 3900X, and my 16 GB of 2400 MHz RAM with 32 GB of 3600 MHz RAM.
So I re-recorded my 1 minute test with full threading, which you can see here:

As you can see, this runs the game at a level I can only describe as unplayably fast. In a minute it progressed 1498 days, 56% further than my old CPU. The framerate is also more stable than before, so I’m quite happy with the results.

pasted image 0 (1).png

[My new machine running the game at 1000 FPS. Only while paused in one particular corner of the map though]

That’s all for today, folks!
Next week we’ll be back to talk more about modding.
 
  • 93Like
  • 87Love
  • 22
  • 7
Reactions:
What would've been the disadvantages of having the rendering done on the main thread and the gamestate management on a sub-thread? Usually, rendering is done on the main thread to avoid input lag, provide a smooth UX, and avoid UI freeze (because usually the main thread owns the UI elements, and changing these elements would require any method to be invoked on the main thread, which results in what I call thread-hopping), but I'm sure you guys did discuss this, so I'd be really interested in learning why you decided against this and how you avoided thread-hopping. Not a critique, just genuine interest.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • 1Like
  • 1
Reactions:
Meneth, I have been following your work since your times as a Medieval 2 Total War modder. I think it’s incredible how far you have come along, and it’s incredibly well-deserved. Congratulations on your career, and thank you for always working towards the entertainment of others.
 
  • 8
  • 1Love
Reactions:
What I take away from this dev diary is, that CK3 will most likely run even faster than CK2 on most systems.

Hell yeah! Although CK2 already runs so fast on my system, that I think as you mentioned, I'm gonna have to play CK3 on speed 4 :D

If only the Stellaris team would do the same for Stellaris. :(
 
Last edited:
  • 3
  • 1Like
Reactions:
Not sure if I will get the answer here, but I'll ask anyway:
I have Intel Core i7-4700HQ CPU and Nvidia Geforce GT 745M laptop, can I play this game at all?

I'm aware the problem here is the GPU, though I really want to play the game and I'm also able to play Imperator Rome with medium (I guess) speed...
 
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:
GPU performance can be a bit odd. Usually the impact is pretty minimal as long as it is powerful enough to maintain 60 FPS, and then gets a bigger and bigger impact on tick speed as it gets worse than that.
Going beyond what's needed for 60 FPS does tend to speed the game up a bit, but it's less of a difference than a CPU makes.

Your CPU is a bit worse than my old CPU (15% or so weaker), and your GPU significantly worse (4x weaker), so chances are your performance will be worse than in my video.
Your GPU is worse than our recommended GPU (40% or so worse), but significantly better than our min spec GPU. So you might need to turn down some graphical settings.
My best guess is that with lower settings your framerate will be fine but less stable than mine, while your tick rate will probably be a decent amount lower but still pretty fast.
Thank you so much. :) I knew my GPU was old, but not that it was THAT bad. :eek: I plan on getting an Nvidia 2000 series or similar when the next gen launches, I think later this year. Over 2000 NOK for a 1060 is just high way robbery. :eek: I doubt it will be much use with a better GPU than 2080 or 2070 on my rig though. But then again I don't know much about that kind of hardware synergy. :)
 
  • 2
Reactions:
What's the horizontal axis of that graph? Seconds, minutes, in-game years?
 
  • 1
Reactions:
Ive noticed that in all your runs the spanish kingdoms didnt declare stupid suicidal wars againat the moors and got overrun like they do in ck2, so that can only mean that the AI HAS INDEED improved massively. Thats all the proof i need :p
 
  • 3Haha
  • 1Like
  • 1
Reactions:
2. What would've been the disadvantages of having the rendering done on the main thread and the gamestate management on a sub-thread? Usually, rendering is done on the main thread to avoid input lag, provide a smooth UX, and avoid UI freeze (because usually the main thread owns the UI elements, and changing these elements would require any method to be invoked on the main thread, which results in what I call thread-hopping), but I'm sure you guys did discuss this, so I'd be really interested in learning why you decided against this and how you avoided thread-hopping. Not a critique, just genuine interest.
The thread that handles all the UI updating tells the render thread to talk to the GPU, so we haven't run into any issues there.

What I take away from this dev diary is, that CK3 will most likely run even faster than CK2 on most systems, is that correct?
On my machine (before upgrading) the tick rate is the same, but the frame rate significantly better and more stable.
So the main difference I expect most people (with good enough GPUs to run CK3 well) is improved frame rate.
Machines beyond 4 physical cores likely do a bit better than CK2 on the tick rate thanks to improved threading.
I have Intel Core i7-4700HQ CPU and Nvidia Geforce GT 745M laptop, can I play this game at all?
That GPU is less than half as powerful as the Intel one we currently have listed in the min spec, so your chances probably aren't great I'm afraid.
The CPU would do fine though.
 
  • 13
  • 3Like
  • 1
Reactions:
Looks like there's not much late-game slowage at all then! Just the first 50 years being quicker; I assume that's the period when the game is not yet that populated with schemes in motion, active event chains, etc.
 
  • 2
Reactions:
Will AI characters have any sense of long-term strategy?

For example, will AI characters be able to identify a rival duke whose growth threatens the balance of power in the kingdom and then act to thwart that duke?

Will an AI character be able to maintain a long-term goal such as "I want to be king" or "I hate dynasty X and want to destroy them"?
 
  • 9
  • 2Like
Reactions:
oh man, if possible how could a i5-4460 & and a GTX 1050 do with Crusader Kings III. i know both are above minimum, but don't know what that means exactly.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
One of my favorite ways to make the game faster however, is by slightly modifying the design to avoid expensive calculations that the player won’t be affected by. To take one example we update the progress of the player’s council tasks every single day. But for the AI we only do so once a month. The player is unlikely to ever notice the difference, but this way we reduce the cost of these updates to 1/30 of what they otherwise would be.

If you are on your liege's council, does your liege's council progress update daily?
 
  • 3
Reactions:
Will AI characters have any sense of long-term strategy?

For example, will AI characters be able to identify a rival duke whose growth threatens the balance of power in the kingdom and then act to thwart that duke?

Will an AI character be able to maintain a long-term goal such as "I want to be king" or "I hate dynasty X and want to destroy them"?
The AI code itself focuses mostly on the short term.

There's a lot of content for rivalries and such though, and content plays a huge part of how other characters act.

oh man, if possible how could a i5-4460 & and a GTX 1050 do with Crusader Kings III. i know both are above minimum, but don't know what that means exactly.
Being above minimum basically means you can run low settings at a decent frame rate.
Being above recommended basically means you can run default settings at a decent frame rate.

So since you're a bit below recommended, depending on what frame rate you're comfortable with you might need to turn down some of the settings.
 
  • 21
  • 1
Reactions:
Being above minimum basically means you can run low settings at a decent frame rate.
Being above recommended basically means you can run default settings at a decent frame rate.

So since you're a bit below recommended, depending on what frame rate you're comfortable with you might need to turn down some of the settings.

Gotcha, how many types of graphical settings are there in CK 3? if that is something you can tell/show off right now.
 
  • 3
  • 1Like
  • 1
Reactions:
And what about AI behavior, when it in few wars? It's still wandering from one point to other, or it's pushing till win, or it can split army if it can to fight in few wars?
 
  • 1
Reactions: