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CK3 Dev Diary #38 - Legacy Showcase

Greetings! It’s been a while since the Dev Diary about Dynasties, and we’re thinking that you might be interested in what the other Dynasty Legacies have in store. That way you have some time to plan which Legacies you’d like to play with first, and perhaps even theorycraft a bit!

As mentioned in the Dynasty Dev Diary, you have to carefully choose between using your powers as Dynast or saving up for Legacies (or strike a careful balance). Unlocking Legacies are a very long-term goal, but can radically alter the way you play the game. Because Legacies are permanent, the bonuses they convery are generally not as powerful as those you get from Lifestyles - on the other hand you can count on them for the rest of the game! And they apply to every member of your dynasty.

Depending on how you play, you’ll unlock varying amounts of Legacies each game. If you carefully plan every child’s marriage it’s possible to complete several tracks - but even so, the first one you choose is usually the one that will truly define your Dynasty, as you struggle your way to the top!

The cost of Legacies is static, and each step in a track gets progressively more expensive. The first step costs 1000 renown, and the last one costs 5000. While most tend to unlock one full track before moving on (as the bonuses get progressively more powerful) it’s a legitimate strategy to pick up some of the cheaper ones first.

Let’s briefly go through each track.

Warfare
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The Warfare legacies mold your Dynasty members into competent knights and powerful commanders. The ideal choice for a true warmonger, or someone who wants to stalwartly defend their rightful lands.

Personally, I find that the Warfare Legacy track does really well when playing in an area where you’re likely to get attacked, such as when playing Tribal, or in the crossroads between India and the Middle East.

The first Legacy, House of Warriors, makes every Dynasty member have additional +2 Prowess skill, as well as increasing the effectiveness of Knights by 15% for landed members. A very powerful early-game Legacy, and the only one that objectively increases your military might.

Generational Belligerence reduces the cost of going to war by 20%, primarily making conquest and third-party Claim wars easier to declare (warring for your own Claims is always cheap, but declaring wars for someone else’s is expensive). A good Legacy for those that want to grow their realm early.

Squire Traditions makes all members gain 10% more Martial lifestyle experience. You’ll see similar bonuses in other trees for other Lifestyles. All of these are generally great to have, and stack with the bonuses you get from education.

Inherited Tactics is a fantastic Legacy for winning wars, as it gives your dynasty members +5 Advantage while leading armies. As you’ll eventually experience, Advantage is the main deciding factor in wars. Having an extra +5 is truly huge, but of course - your enemies could always recruit your family members and use them as commanders against you…

Finally, the Private Army Legacy unlocks an additional slot for Men-at-Arms. This is not to be underestimated, as there are no other sources of additional Men-at-Arms slots except for increasing your tier. Additionally, it also gives you access to the ‘House Guard’ regiment - a special regiment of Heavy Infantry MaA that is free, but takes up one MaA slot and can’t have its size increased. This makes even a lowly Count of your Dynasty able to field quite a formidable force, while you as a mighty Emperor might instead opt to use the extra MaA slot for an additional unit of Armored Horsemen!

Law
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The Law legacies focus on stability and consolidation, making members of your Dynasty exceptionally good vassals and reducing the chance of revolts.

I personally enjoy using these Legacies when running a larger realm, especially one containing multiple Cultures. I usually go for it when playing a vassal in the Holy Roman Empire or the Seljuk Empire, as the subjects you have are quite diverse.

The first Legacy, Mostly Fair, increases popular opinion in your domain by 5. This is quite powerful, and even offsets the entire penalty for being the wrong culture in the same culture group. A great Legacy to have if your domain is mostly made up of other cultures or faiths.

Faithful Magistrates increases passive Control Growth by 0.2/month in your entire Domain. Getting control up after conquest or revocation is a challenge, and your Marshal can only be assigned to one County at a time. This also makes your Dynasty members excellent vassal candidates for newly conquered lands.

Power and Prosperity boosts Stewardship lifestyle experience by 10%.

Delegated Authority increases your Powerful Vassal’s opinion of you by 5, which isn’t insignificant seeing how hard they can be to please. Especially when you’re an Emperor, and simply can’t have all of your Powerful Vassals on the Council…

Finally, Home Estates increases your Domain Limit by 1, which is a fantastic bonus to have - especially if you’re not playing a line of high-stewardship characters. This means that it’s easier to preserve your domain throughout the generations.

Guile
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The Guile Legacies are optimal for those that want to rule as dreaded tyrants, and/or murder their way to the top.

If I know that keeping my realm together peacefully isn’t an option, then this is what I’d pick. The increase in Dread gain is invaluable when starting off, especially if I need to get my plans going quickly. In Spain, for example, there’s just no time to waste in uniting the lands, so ruling through fear while removing my brothers one-by-one is a legitimately good way to play. Generally, I’d avoid picking these Legacies if I was planning to have a lot of Dynastic vassals, as some legacies can be double-edged...

The first Legacy, Ominous Reputation, increases Dread gain by 20%, a fantastic starting Legacy when you want to rule through fear throughout the generations.

Long Reach increases Hostile Scheme Success Chance by 10%, which is excellent as it applies not only to murders, but to Hook Fabrication, Abduction and all other hostile schemes too. It is a double edged sword though, if your kinsmen want to see you dead…

Natural Schemers boosts Intrigue lifestyle experience by 10%.

Venial makes Tyranny decay 20% faster, which is great in combination with Dread for quickly reorganizing your realm through revocations and retractions.

Finally, the Family Connections legacy gives each Dynasty member a major chance of avoiding one successful murder scheme targeting them. When playing as a Dreadful ruler, being murdered is really the only constant threat hanging above your head. It’s calming to know that you have at least some protection, but remember, your devious brother will have the same...

Blood
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The Blood legacies were briefly covered in the previous Dev Diary, and remain my personal favorites. They affect the inheritance of traits, and can even make your Dynasty known for showing certain traits!

This legacy track is optimal for those wanting to play the breeding game, trying to get the best possible rulers to succeed them.

Noble Veins has two bonuses; firstly it improves the chance of inheriting good congenital traits by 30%, and then it adds 30% to the (admittedly small) chance for new good genetic traits to randomly appear. Quite a good starting Legacy, allowing you to kickstart the breeding game.

Convergent Blood increases the chance of reinforcing genetic traits by 30%. This means that the offspring of a character with the first level strength genetic trait would have that much more chance of getting the second level genetic strength trait, and so on. Naturally, this chance is still mostly dependent on both parents having the traits.

Resilient Bloodline is much like Noble Veins, but it reduces the chance of bad genetic traits appearing randomly or propagating, also by 30%.

Architected Ancestry allows you to select one of the following traits to more commonly appear among your Dynasty Members: Beauty (Tier 1), Physique (Tier 1), Intelligence (Tier 1), Fecund (50% more fertility), Giant, Dwarf, Scaly or Albino. This one is fantastic for roleplaying, as having a dynasty of, for example, Giants makes for a very interesting story. Historically there were definitely families known for sharing a specific ‘trait’, flattering or not, this legacy represents that. The chance for each newborn child to get the trait is roughly ~2%, so you’ll still have to put in some work if you want the trait to be truly common.

Octogenarians increase Life Expectancy by 5 years. Unlike a flat health boost, this also makes women able to carry children for 5 more years, and makes character portraits visually age slower.

Erudition
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The Erudition legacies are more powerful than they might seem at a glance, with a strong focus on piety and the clergy - but the final legacy is possibly the strongest of them all, if you keep a skilled council.

I personally enjoy the Erudition legacies when playing in the middle of a vast Feudal sphere, such as the HRE or anywhere in India, as the guests you get are much more vital to your expansion than in Clan/Tribal areas like the Middle East or Africa.

Vibrant Court increases your Court and Guest opinion by +10, and makes your Court attract better Guests. The opinion is very useful, as it makes your court less likely to scheme against you, but the true power of this legacy lies in the attraction of better guests. When choosing where to travel, Claimants and exceptionally good commanders/knights are significantly more likely to visit you, should you be within their range. If you plan to expand early using foreign Claimants, this is the legacy for you.

Ordained Rulership increases your Piety gain by 10%, providing one of the few sources of unconditional Piety increase in the game. This is obviously a great legacy if you’re aiming for creating your own Faith, or just want the Pope to love your Dynasty.

Treasured Knowledge boosts learning lifestyle experience by 10%.

True Believers give your Dynasty a +5 Clergy opinion, which will help you earn the favor of both realm priest and Head of Faith. If you’re of a faith with no Clergy, you will instead gain a +3 flat increase in opinion for characters of your faith.

Bureaucrats increase the base progress and impact from Councillor skill on Council Tasks by 10%. Yes, this means that every single Council task is 10% faster. Of course, this effect is more useful the more skilled your council is - but with the better guests attracted by Vibrant Court you’ll rarely find yourself without suitable candidates!

Glory
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The Glory legacies are all about the name of your dynasty, and how far you can get it to travel across the known world. Prestige and opinion, fame and glory!

Naturally, this is a great track for those in need of prestige - which includes all Tribal rulers. This is not to say that the legacies aren’t useful for others, as they make it easier to arrange beneficial marriages and get the aid you need.

Desirable Match increases marriage acceptance by 30. Now, how much is that really? There are many factors that determine the acceptance of a marriage, but having an extra 30 essentially means that you’re able to marry one step above your current position (marrying the child of a Duke as a Count, for example). Now, this truly shines when combined with the Gallantry Lifestyle Tree Perk, for a total of 80 extra acceptance… Essentially a must-have for anyone planning to play an extended marriage game.

Renowned Name increases Prestige gain by 10%, providing one of the few sources of unconditional Prestige increase in the game. You can never have too much prestige, as it helps both with increasing your Level of Fame (opinion) and as a resource for declaring war!

Earning Respect boosts diplomacy lifestyle experience by 10%.

Assertive Rulers reduces the Short Reign penalty by 20%, providing a much needed boost to stability on succession.

Righteousness increases general opinion by 10, yes, that’s with everyone. A massively helpful legacy for keeping your realm faction-free! Essentially, a Dynasty with a completed Glory legacy track will have no troubles keeping even large realms together.

Kin
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Finally, the Kin legacies are tailored for those that want a truly vast Dynasty, where members help each other and rarely quarrel.

Now, there’s no better legacy for those that want a big realm where most vassals are of your own Dynasty. Your kin will tend to be well educated, and keeping the peace is easier when you can use schemes such as Sway or Befriend (or even Seduce…) against your kin with ease. I really enjoy this legacy track when playing a polygamous faith, for example when playing as a Clan ruler in the Middle East, as then you’re motivated to keep a large dynasty regardless.

Bounteous Loins increase fertility by 10% for your entire Dynasty, this means that it’s much easier to get over the early-game ‘hump’ where you’re establishing your dynasty, as well as make your dynasty larger in the long run.

Studious Youth makes it much more likely for members of your dynasty to get good Education traits, offsetting the need for finding a high-learning guardian.

Constant Care increases spousal opinion by +10, and lowers the chance of complications during pregnancy. Again, in the long run this means that your Dynasty will grow much larger than those without these legacies.

Close Bonds gives a Dynasty opinion bonus of +5, which means that everyone in the entire dynasty likes each other much more than they already do (essentially doubling the bonus). It also provides one of the most fun bonuses of any legacy; 30% increased success chance of Personal Schemes against Dynasty Members. This means every personal scheme, from Sway to Elope. Use with care...

Graceful Aging makes it so that your Dynasty members do NOT lose prowess with age. Normally, older characters lose prowess with time, making a once-great knight easily bestable by a young upstart in personal combat. It also gives Dynasty members a chance to randomly gain skills when growing older, making the elder members of the dynasty truly wise, and very useful as commanders, knights and councillors!

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That’s it for this Dev Diary! I hope you have fun figuring out what you want to go for first!
 
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I want to understand what is so wonderful about legacies that they are a core part of the game experience and should never be disabled in Ironman compatible games.

I respect the opinion of the majority here who seems to think they are such a great addition to a game about dynastic management and struggles, but I fail to see them as something entertaining or realistic.

And to me, as for others, realism is important. In CK2, I always deactivated the silly supernatural stuff. I get that’s CK was never about recreating history, since the fate of dynasties can be very diverse, but I also think having an historical feeling is important.

Pressing a button to have more chances to permanently get advantages doesn’t contribute to this historical feeling.
 
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I want to understand what is so wonderful about legacies that they are a core part of the game experience and should never be disabled in Ironman compatible games.

I respect the opinion of the majority here who seems to think they are such a great addition to a game about dynastic management and struggles, but I fail to see them as something entertaining or realistic.

And to me, as for others, realism is important. In CK2, I always deactivated the silly supernatural stuff. I get that’s CK was never about recreating history, since the fate of dynasties can be very diverse, but I also think having an historical feeling is important.

Pressing a button to have more chances to permanently get advantages doesn’t contribute to this historical feeling.

It comes down to the fact that in general most people are looking for fun over accuracy. This might be massively immersion breaking for you and a couple other people, but most probably either won't think twice about it or will be able to suspend their disbelief. Paradox's goal is to give players options to craft their world how they want, and this is one of those ways.

And while I agree with you that it doesn't make literal sense to be able to choose a trait to magically imbue upon your distant descendants, it is a very small chance to appear even still. Hardly game breaking.
 
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Here's what I don't really understand with all the complaints about this system. In CK2, there were plenty of things that could not be turned off that were not realistic. Did it make you not enjoy playing CK2? Or did you enjoy the game regardless? I'm not asking if you might have preferred to disable everything that isn't realistic, but just whether or not the fact that you couldn't actually made you not enjoy playing the game? The fact that you're here suggests you really enjoyed CK2 even with things that weren't realistic that couldn't be disabled. So why is it any different with CK3? I'm genuinely curious. I get that some people don't want to just ignore the mechanics and might prefer it is disabled, but does it really make you not enjoy the game just because it is there?

I think this mechanic will be a lot of fun and it opens up a wide variety of options for modders. I assume (maybe I'm wrong) that modders can change the legacies to whatever they want. So you could likely find a mod that has more "realistic" legacies before very long.
 
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What's LB?


LB = Legendary Bloodlines. The legacy system they have implemented is a marked improvement over the old LB system. However the one thing it lacks are rewarding/punishing those specific epic actions by characters. Being known as a legendary murderer or building a ton of castles. I prefer the legacy system over that as a whole by far. But I still would love to see some sort of system that rewards specific epic feats Like LB did added on top.
 
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I want to understand what is so wonderful about legacies that they are a core part of the game experience and should never be disabled in Ironman compatible games.

I respect the opinion of the majority here who seems to think they are such a great addition to a game about dynastic management and struggles, but I fail to see them as something entertaining or realistic.

And to me, as for others, realism is important. In CK2, I always deactivated the silly supernatural stuff. I get that’s CK was never about recreating history, since the fate of dynasties can be very diverse, but I also think having an historical feeling is important.

Pressing a button to have more chances to permanently get advantages doesn’t contribute to this historical feeling.

With respect, there's nothing supernatural involved in the dynastic legacies. They reflect habits, methodolgy, traits, and genetic boons picked up by your dynasty over time.

The Julii post-Caesar had a reputation for pomp and glory, and most of the family benefited from that.

The Plantagenets had a reputation for legalism and culture.

The sons of Genghis Khan had methods for warfare that made each branch of the tree a force to be reckoned with.

The Zhu were known for their mobilization of grand feats of state; the restoration of grand monuments, the building of new ones, and the formation of huge armies and navies.

The Rothschild family is famous for banking, and still engage in finance to this day.

The Habsburgs were renowned for their ability to secure powerful marriages and spread their lineage far and wide, working themselves into the power structure of several mighty realms across Europe.

The Medicis were famous for patronizing art and humanism, paving the way for the Renaissance, and were also quite adept bankers.

The Capets are known for spreading their seed far and wide and always finding a way to stay prominent, right up to this very day.

These are the sorts of things this system represents. They're mechanical affectations to represent the reputation of your dynasty growing along a given vector, no different than the way a -115 opinion bonus represents your wife being absolutely furious that her little sister gave you a bastard.
 
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I'm just wondering how they balance renown gain. If all living member of your dynasty gives you bonus renown. And then there are religions that allow multiple wife's, they will get large dynasty way faster and it can great snowball effect on long run. All those children's get more wife's and so on.
 
I'm just wondering how they balance renown gain. If all living member of your dynasty gives you bonus renown. And then there are religions that allow multiple wife's, they will get large dynasty way faster and it can great snowball effect on long run. All those children's get more wife's and so on.

Consider what renown is in the first place. It's how well your dynasty is known. If you are huge, of course you will be far more well known than a small dynasty (not factoring in what each dynasty might or might not do to become well known). I don't see the problem with that. Besides, I'm sure the renown gain from living family members isn't just X per person, but has "tiers" for lack of a better term or something similar with only minimal increase for each tier to help balance big dynasties to small dynasties. And even if they don't, there's almost certainly a cap to renown gain from living dynasty members. In any case, just from the stream, you can see that there's a far greater increase based on being landed and the rank held (kings outside your realm are +1 each), so the amount gained from living members really isn't that significant in comparison. Nice, but not significant. Now, if you were to have a very large dynasty where you went out of your want to land as many of them as possible, then you could really gain renown. But I think that's realistic and acceptable.
 
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I want to understand what is so wonderful about legacies that they are a core part of the game experience and should never be disabled in Ironman compatible games.

I love the notion of legacies, but I don't have a problem with Paradox adding a game rule to toggle them off. Doesn't affect me in the slightest. I don't know whether I'd support it being achievement-compatible yet, because until we've seen a few games it's hard to tell if disabling them would significantly affect how hard the game is. However, at first glance it seems that disabling them would make achievement hunting harder rather than easier.
 
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LB = Legendary Bloodlines. The legacy system they have implemented is a marked improvement over the old LB system. However the one thing it lacks are rewarding/punishing those specific epic actions by characters. Being known as a legendary murderer or building a ton of castles. I prefer the legacy system over that as a whole by far. But I still would love to see some sort of system that rewards specific epic feats Like LB did added on top.

Ah, I've never heard of them referred to as "legendary bloodlines" before, just as bloodlines. Thanks for explaining. :)
 
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With respect, there's nothing supernatural involved in the dynastic legacies. They reflect habits, methodolgy, traits, and genetic boons picked up by your dynasty over time.

There's really no way to give some legacies a natural explanation that I can think of, particularly some of the Blood ones (like a higher chance of propagating congenital traits). However, I agree with you that most of them can be explained as being caused by natural means in-game.
 
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There's really no way to give some legacies a natural explanation that I can think of, particularly some of the Blood ones (like a higher chance of propagating congenital traits). However, I agree with you that most of them can be explained as being caused by natural means in-game.

Ah, those, I see now. Personally, I take Blood and some of the Kin ones to be genetic facets of your lineage. For example, the way a family tends to have dense bones that are tough to break, or the way some families hardly ever get sick, or the way some families seem to get drunk far slower than most.
 
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I love the notion of legacies, but I don't have a problem with Paradox adding a game rule to toggle them off. Doesn't affect me in the slightest. I don't know whether I'd support it being achievement-compatible yet, because until we've seen a few games it's hard to tell if disabling them would significantly affect how hard the game is. However, at first glance it seems that disabling them would make achievement hunting harder rather than easier.
It depends what the achievements are. If other characters don't have access to some of the legacy traits, it could make the achievements easier.

But that's not the main problem with toggling the legacies - it's the need to balance the game for both situations, and any possible future patches of DLC having to be built around the legacies system being there in some games, and not in others.
 
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I take Blood and some of the Kin ones to be genetic facets of your lineage. For example, the way a family tends to have dense bones that are tough to break, or the way some families hardly ever get sick, or the way some families seem to get drunk far slower than most.

Yeah, if that's what the legacies did, it'd make scientific sense. However, we have one legacy which gives a 30% greater chance of propagating a congenital trait. That doesn't make scientific sense. For example, if a guy with that legacy and one without it were to mate with the same woman, everything would be normal with the guy without the legacy, but when the one with the legacy impregnates her then suddenly the congenital traits of the woman have a higher chance of propagating. I don't think there is a natural explanation for that one, heh. :)
 
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There's really no way to give some legacies a natural explanation that I can think of, particularly some of the Blood ones (like a higher chance of propagating congenital traits). However, I agree with you that most of them can be explained as being caused by natural means in-game.
The Blood legacies can be explained postfact as the nitty-gritty abstracted details of match-making the dynasty practices and of the traits that have over a greater length of time been bred into the line, and thus tend to appear somewhat more commonly. It's not that the same couple would have different children with and without the legacy - it's that the dynasty with the blood legacy has had generations of advantageous genetics and has set priorities in arranging marriages. That the player or AI chooses the legacy isn't the character choosing that legacy - it's the point where that legacy is recognized - and if it's not taken, then that background wasn't there in the first place.
 
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But that's not the main problem with toggling the legacies - it's the need to balance the game for both situations, and any possible future patches of DLC having to be built around the legacies system being there in some games, and not in others.

Hmm, why would we need to balance both situations, though? In CK2 we had a number of toggles which had a massive effect on gameplay, yet there was no attempt to balance things - playing with or without them had a major effect on balance. Take for example AI access to the Seduction focus, to the Intrigue focus, devil worshippers, secret religious cults...

People are going to have to live with the fact that if they add or remove a significant game mechanic then it will have a significant effect on gameplay and balance.
 
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The Blood legacies can be explained postfact as the nitty-gritty abstracted details of match-making the dynasty practices and of the traits that have over a greater length of time been bred into the line, and thus tend to appear somewhat more commonly. It's not that the same couple would have different children with and without the legacy - it's that the dynasty with the blood legacy has had generations of advantageous genetics and has set priorities in arranging marriages.

I don't think it can be explained that way, though. If you mate with a woman with a favorable congenital trait the legacy causes her to be more likely to contribute the most positive of her genes to your offspring. There is no way your breeding programs in your dynasty could affect that in someone unrelated.
 
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Yeah, if that's what the legacies did, it'd make scientific sense. However, we have one legacy which gives a 30% greater chance of propagating a congenital trait. That doesn't make scientific sense. For example, if a guy with that legacy and one without it were to mate with the same woman, everything would be normal with the guy without the legacy, but when the one with the legacy impregnates her then suddenly the congenital traits of the woman have a higher chance of propagating. I don't think there is a natural explanation for that one, heh. :)

True, though to be fair, genetics don't work exactly true to life in CK3 anyway. I can see why you might want to tweak or remove some of these, though... A theoretical mod to rework some of them into a more "realistic" state might be something I'd have a look at.
 
I don't think it can be explained that way, though. If you mate with a woman with a favorable congenital trait the legacy causes her to be more likely to contribute the most positive of her genes to your offspring. There is no way your breeding programs in your dynasty could affect that in someone unrelated.
Ah, but that dynasty member chose to mate with that woman knowing that she's more likely to pass that trait on to their children than someone else with the same trait would be - and that knowledge is from a tradition within the dynasty that traces the family lines of potential mates and so on. The woman is more likely to pass the trait on, because the dynasty member wouldn't choose someone who wasn't. The abstraction works as long as you don't look too closely.
 
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True, though to be fair, genetics don't work exactly true to life in CK3 anyway. I can see why you might want to tweak or remove some of these, though... A theoretical mod to rework some of them into a more "realistic" state might be something I'd have a look at.

Yeah, I guess to be fair we'll have to concede that very few things in CK work exactly true to life. :)

Personally I don't mind the way the Blood legacies work now. Yes, they are unrealistic and pretty much supernatural in nature, but I'm ok with that. They seem fun, and that's a fair price to pay. :)
 
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Ah, but that dynasty member chose to mate with that woman knowing that she's more likely to pass that trait on to their children than someone else with the same trait would be - and that knowledge is from a tradition within the dynasty that traces the family lines of potential mates and so on. The woman is more likely to pass the trait on, because the dynasty member wouldn't choose someone who wasn't. The abstraction works as long as you don't look too closely.

That's the problem - one cannot only not look too closely, one cannot look at all, because if you have this legacy you'll have the same effect on literally every woman in the whole world, while someone without the legacy won't have it with any woman in the whole world. Not so much selection there. :D

Honestly, it doesn't make scientific sense. I'm ok with that. It still seems like a fun mechanic, and not everything in the game has to conform to real world science. :)