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CK3 Dev Diary #5 - Schemes, Secrets and Hooks

Greetings, dear would-be kings and queens!

I’m Voffvoffhunden (also known as Petter on the discord or even in private life), one of the game’s content designers. Most people probably haven’t seen me around a lot, since I’ve been working on CK3 in secret since the release of HoI4. It’s been a long journey, but it’s been fun to see the game develop and grow over time, and it’s even more fun now that we get to talk about it to all of you! Today, said talking will be about a handful of new features that together cover some of the most important parts of the Crusader Kings experience. So where better to start than with murder?

We’ve all been there. A united Scandinavia is within your grasp, if only it hadn’t been for your meddling siblings! In CK2, these kinds of problems were handled with the gentle application of the “Murder Plot”, as it was popularly called. That system has been expanded and replaced with our brand new Scheme system!

For Crusader Kings 3, we wanted a system that was slightly easier to predict while keeping it unreliable in its outcome, so that murder remains an… option, rather than a safe bet. We also wanted to reduce the number of agents that you need, to make it more valuable to focus on a few candidates close to the victim, rather than having to send messengers with bags of gold to every single courtier and vassal in the land.

All this is achieved through our new Scheme system, where you can use target a character with a Scheme in accordance with your plans, recruit Agents, build up your Scheme Success Chance, and finally achieve your goal. I’ll try to illustrate how it all works by referring to that most iconic of all Schemes: Murder.

ongoing murder scheme USABLE.PNG



By now, the progress bar might have caught your eye. Each month, a Scheme has a chance of progressing one step, with the odds determined by the Owner’s Scheme Power, and the Target’s Scheme Resistance. These two values are based on the relevant Skill (Intrigue in the case of Murder) but are also affected by Spymasters (in the case of Intrigue-type schemes), various modifiers, and of course - the Owner’s Agents. The closer a Murder Scheme’s Agents are to the Target (and the better their Intrigue), the more Scheme Power they add.

Once the Scheme has progressed 10 steps, it tries to execute. The chance of a successful outcome is determined by the Scheme’s Success Chance (which has a slightly different set of modifiers to Scheme Power), while its Secrecy is used to check whether you are discovered or not when you try to execute.

If you’ve gathered capable agents and you’re lucky enough to not get caught, that inheritance will be as good as yours!

As the Scheme's Owner, you are protected from discovery until you actually attempt to execute your scheme. This protection does not extend to your agents, however! And being discovered as a participant in a murder plot is rarely good for one’s reputation, or for one’s habit of seeing sunlight every day.

It is worth noting that when the existence of a Scheme is discovered in this way, its chance of success drops significantly, as the appointed victim makes every preparation possible to foil your plans.

On the other hand, perhaps you’re just not the murderous type? Thankfully the Scheme system is so flexible that it can be used for all manner of long-term interactions. On the opposite end of the spectrum, Seduction makes a return as a Scheme. Seduce does not use Agents in the way Murder does, and it’s not dangerous in the same way… unless your target happens to be married, that is. Achieving success - determined by things such as your skill at seduction, their sexual preference, and whether you get along whatsoever - can net you a new Lover.
I know where your minds are going at that thought, and yes - it’s a great way of acquiring Agents for your Murder Scheme!

Sway is another returning favourite that’s now a Scheme. Sway also doesn't use Agents but largely relies on your Diplomacy instead. It simply progresses towards its execution and then checks whether you successfully improve their opinion or not. Then it loops around and starts over, building up the target’s opinion of you until you stop it -- or commit some horrible diplomatic faux pas...

To add to the convenience, all characters can run one Hostile Scheme (such as murder) and one Personal Scheme (such as Seduction or Sway) at the same time. Unfortunately, you can only target a given character with a single scheme at a time, so you won’t be able to both murder and seduce the same person, just to see which one pays off sooner. You have to do one after the other.

Now, as I indicated earlier, trying to murder someone is usually illegal. (Fun fact: according to Paradox’s legal department this is also the case in real life.) However, if you’re not discovered when you do it, you’re off the hook, right? Not so! Let me introduce you to something that will change the way you nervously glance over your shoulder forever: Secrets!

hooks and secrets USABLE.PNG



Characters can acquire Secrets when they do something that is frowned upon or outright illegal. You want to keep your own Secrets close to your chest, while it can be of great benefit to uncover the Secrets of others. By sending your Spymaster to… well, spy, it’s possible to find out what is going on with your annoying vassals, your threatening neighbour, or even at your own court!

So what do you do when you discover a Secret? One possible course of action is to expose it for the world to see, of course! This will apply various effects depending on how serious the Secret is. Being the King’s secret lover will cause a scandal, being a Secret Deviant will leave you with the Deviant trait, while being exposed as a secret murderer is exactly the excuse your Liege has been waiting for to throw you in the dungeon. Not to mention those horrible Kinslaying penalties (“Hey, they’re my family, and I choose what to do with them, okay?”).

The other possible course of action ties into our new evolution of CK2’s Favors. This is now a generalised system called “Hooks”, which come in various flavours. Favors is one of these, while another might represent the loyalty that a House member owes to the House Head.

A Hook is used to force characters to do what you want them to, such as accepting marriage offers, changing your Feudal Contract, or forcing them to join your Scheme as an Agent…

forcing prince bishop to accept USABLE.png



There are Weak and Strong Hooks, where weak Hooks are used up once expended, while Strong Hooks only get a cooldown, ready to be used again later. The source of a Hook determines its strength, and the strongest Hooks come from Blackmailing someone over their most horrible secrets…

blackmail over incest USABLE.PNG



You might want to keep hold of a Hook once you have it, though, rather than spending it. Having a Hook on someone can prevent them from taking hostile actions towards you -- particularly useful when dealing with pesky vassals. Be warned, however. While having a strong Blackmail Hook on someone really gives you the upper hand, it will be lost if the Secret you are blackmailing over is exposed.

There are many types of Schemes, Secrets and Hooks in the game, and while it would be entirely possible to list them all, I think it would be way more fun for you to gradually discover them through future dev diaries or once the game is released.

Hopefully, it’s clear by now how everything I have talked about hangs together. Maybe you want to murder someone, so you need some Agents. However, no one wants to join, so you dig for Secrets that can be converted into Blackmail Hooks. Meanwhile, you’re running a Personal Scheme (such as Sway) to increase another potential Agent’s opinion of you, so that you can convince them that -- yes, their Liege really is that bad.

But what if everyone hates you (on account of all the murderin’) and you’re unable to find a single blackmail-worthy speck of dirt on anyone?

Well, in Crusader Kings 3 there might be something you can do about that…

Fabricate Hook teaser USABLE.PNG
 

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While I love the idea of this, I must admit I'm not hugely keen on the name 'Hooks' - maybe 'Leverage' sounds more appropriate?
It's probably a bit colloquial, but grammatically correct. This isn't the first time with Paradox though that I've noticed a colloquial phrase being used when a formal one is better
 
Now, as I indicated earlier, trying to murder someone is usually illegal. (Fun fact: according to Paradox’s legal department this is also the case in real life.)

It's always a good thing to learn something new every day :D Seriously, the new intrigue options seems a significant upgrade compared to CK2.
 
So, can you use this system to fabricate claims on titles now? Cause the RNG of waiting for a fabricated claim was mind-numbing early game. Unless, you plan to talk about claims at a later date?

One more minor question, would it be possible to add a bisexual trait? Seems silly to make attraction so binary, especially when we have evidence that all 3 existed before modern times.

Thanks for the dev diary! I really look forward to these every week. Keep up the good work on the game!
 
Is there any sort of cultural variation to what is considered a secret or blackmail-worthy? Thinking specifically about "has lain with men" as in the example image... not 100% sure if there were any examples during CK's time period, but at least in some cultures at some points in history that would not have been very worthy of blackmailing over. Actually, incest is probably a better example; Zoroastrians probably would find that a pretty laughable thing to try and blackmail someone with. Having a system for this would also open up interesting possibilities for ahistoric cultural development, e.g. setting up an empire where no one cares if you're a kinslayer.
 
Is there a way for me to find out what secrets other people know. Say I'm planning on blackmailing the King and someone else fonds out the fact that he's having relations with his sister, I'd quite like to bump off that chap so as to keep sole power over the king.
 
But also we had an idea regarding the stress, especially if this part of your personality is something you as the player doesn't know yet.
Suppose your character is gay, but this is something you don't know yet. But then you get for example the event in CK2 where you could chose to pursue a boy or a girl. You might not know you're gay, so you follow the event to pursue the girl. This might cause stress then. But it could also be that you have an earlier event which might point to you discovering you're gay. Then you might still choose to conform to society (inducing stress), or follow your heart's desire (but this will give the possibilities for other to gain hooks on you).
I think for gameplay reasons it is best if the player can decide in the quoted event if his character is gay or not. (If the character does not have traits already) This is because it will lead to better identification with the character
 
One more minor question, would it be possible to add a bisexual trait? Seems silly to make attraction so binary, especially when we have evidence that all 3 existed before modern times.
Iirc it has already been revealed that a character can be hetero/homo/bi/asexual in CK3
 
Having a system for this would also open up interesting possibilities for ahistoric cultural development, e.g. setting up an empire where no one cares if you're a kinslayer.

Pretty sure the way the new religion system works will allow one to do this. You can make tiny modifications to the way your faith is practiced in your realm and it’ll become its own heresy eventually, but things like incest and kinslaying are almost certainly part of that.
 
I'm curious what the reason is for this.
Because of the way we approached those Schemes in particular, it felt strange to have other people be a crucial part of your success. Other characters are still be involved in events related to the Schemes and can have an impact, but they don't provide Scheme Power directly.

Can you be an Agent? Say, from your liege's plot? If so, with its own series of events and decisions to choose from?
No, so far we've limited it to AI only, since it can be such a huge risk that you don't really have any control over...

This is really cool.

Have to agree with others here that we need mechanics that allow us to foil the scheme more involved than setting a paymaster to uncover plots.

With a bit of work scheme defense will make or break this system.
There will be a lot of ways to affect Scheme Defense and discovery chances, not only through your Spymaster!

  1. Can we hook people into accepting seduction?
  2. What about Claim Titles plots?
  3. What about slandering?
  4. Can we finally plot to seduce our wife and use a hook we acquired on her (has a mysterious lover) on her?
  5. Can steps be accelerated and skipped by some events?
  6. Can we, as a child, plot to murder our siblings/friends? Of course without buying favors of all vassals, but unsuccessfully playing William Tell for example :rolleyes:
1. No
2. We'll talk about getting claims another time ;)
3. Nothing to talk about with this right now
4. You cannot Blackmail someone over a Secret that you are a part of!
5. Progress (and success chance and everything else) can be affected by events
6. Right now children cannot run murder schemes. You're giving me ideas, though... :rolleyes:

Wouldn't be cool if, at an high level of Diplomatic or Intrigue skill, you would be allowed to Seduce people you wouldn't normally be attracted?
"By default" is a key phrase in the sentence you've quoted ;)

Unless, you plan to talk about claims at a later date?
Yuuup

One more minor question, would it be possible to add a bisexual trait? Seems silly to make attraction so binary, especially when we have evidence that all 3 existed before modern times.
There are bisexual characters in the game, yes.

So murder plots will take at least 10 months before they succeed? I guess I won't be able to prevent pesky children by murdering their mothers before they give birth.
This is a worryingly specific need :eek:
(There's always the chance of getting a progress-boosting event, though...)

Is there any sort of cultural variation to what is considered a secret or blackmail-worthy?
There is indeed something handling this that we'll get back to in the future!

Is there a way for me to find out what secrets other people know. Say I'm planning on blackmailing the King and someone else fonds out the fact that he's having relations with his sister, I'd quite like to bump off that chap so as to keep sole power over the king.
Not an easy way of knowing, no. Since Secrets are, well, secret, we would have to not only knows the Secret, but also who knows about who knows about the Secret, and then it becomes an entire new layer on top!
 
Not at the moment, no. We don't want every agent to immediately turn around and Blackmail you

I think giving agents a secret against you would make for great gameplay. This encourages people to maintain a small network of trusted contacts to do these kinds of jobs, instead of going about randomly fishing for strangers in a foreign court. A schemer should be careful about who they let into the plot.
 
Achieving success - determined by things such as your skill at seduction, their sexual preference, and whether you get along whatsoever - can net you a new Lover.

How is sexual preference modeled in the game? Can I hope for the Kinsey scale, and an integer value between 0 and 6? It would be easy to program with, and could even be dynamic and change due to events.

The trait-based "homosexuality" in CK2 wasn't ideal when it came to modelling different cultures relation to it.
 
Oh that’s very cool! Where was this revealed?
The trait-based "homosexuality" in CK2 wasn't ideal when it came to modelling different cultures relation to it.
I don't know if it's written down anywhere, but we've been talking about it various places. Sexuality is modeled outside of the trait system now, with slightly more nuance (even if it's still not a 6-point scale).

Are the chances of an assassination attempt success just a plain 50/50, or will there be other factors that modify the probabilities?
The chances of success depend on a variety of factors, including your agents.

I think giving agents a secret against you would make for great gameplay.
I agree that it's a cool concept, but it also causes a number of issues that we haven't found any good solutions to. I think it'll make a lot of sense when you see it in play, but we'll have to see once you no longer have to take my word for it!
 
I think for gameplay reasons it is best if the player can decide in the quoted event if his character is gay or not. (If the character does not have traits already) This is because it will lead to better identification with the character
I think for immersion reasons just the opposite. Just like in real life where someone is still developing / discovering their own sexuality. You don't always know.
I even think that might be the case for more personality traits. But you might have events which make it clear for you the player about some of those traits, before you get events which force you to choose between following your trait, or not.