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CK3 Dev Diary #65 - One Culture Is Not Enough

Hello everyone!

Last week we had a rundown of what a culture looks like in the upcoming overhaul. This time around, let’s have a closer look at how you go about creating your own culture! There are two different ways of doing so, forming a hybrid culture and diverging your culture. Both are slightly different in their approach and in what they allow you to do with your new culture.

Now, while the cultural overhaul is a free feature that will accompany the Royal Court expansion, the ability to create a hybrid or divergent culture will require you to own the DLC.

Before we start, culture creation is quite dependent on the new cultural overhaul, so if you have yet to read last week's DD, I suggest you give it a read for context. Also, keep in mind that everything shown in screenshots is still a work in progress!

Form a Hybrid Culture
Forming a hybrid culture is a way for you to meld the aspects of your current culture with that of another, in any way you so choose.

There are a few restrictions you’ll have to keep in mind before you are able to form a hybrid. First, the culture you want to form a hybrid with has to be present within your realm. No weird hybridization with cultures on the other side of the world please. Secondly, you’ll need a certain amount of cultural acceptance. You cannot go in and conquer an area to only create a new culture immediately, but the required amount can vary depending on your current traditions. And finally, you cannot hybridize with a culture of the same heritage as you. The reasoning here is that the two cultures have to be different enough to warrant them being combined into a single culture, rather than just assimilating one in favour of the other.

Once you are able to form a hybrid culture, you’ll need to come up with a good name for it. We pick a default name that is a combination of the two cultures you are attempting to hybridize, such as “Andaluso-French”, or “Greco-Persian”. For added immersion and flavour, however, we have a set of names that can appear depending on which cultures you hybridize, or where you are creating your new culture. For example, hybridizing a culture of a Frankish heritage with one of a central germanic heritage in the area in and surrounding Lotharingia, you can have a culture named Rhinelander. You are, of course, free to name your new culture whatever you want as well!

Starting with the pillars. You can freely pick between the two cultures' pillars, mixing ethos, heritage, language, and martial custom as you’d like. For example, you could pick the heritage from culture A, but language from culture B. One caveat is that you have to pick at least one pillar from each culture. It isn’t much of a hybrid otherwise, is it?

01_hybrid_pillars.jpg

[Image of pillar selection when forming a hybrid culture]

The same principle applies to traditions. You can pick and choose which traditions you want to keep, from either culture, as long as you don’t go above the slot limit. You can even choose to only pick a few traditions, leaving slots empty and give room for future traditions that you may want to adopt later. Some traditions are unique to certain cultures, regions, or heritages however, so this is the only chance you might have to acquire traditions that normally would be out of your reach.

02_hybrid_traditions.jpg

[Image of tradition selection when forming a hybrid culture]

Aesthetics work in the same way. You are free to pick and choose all of the subcomponents from either culture. For some of the categories, you are even able to choose a “hybrid” option, using the preset from both cultures! The hybrid option exists for names, fashion, and CoAs. Are you hybridizing a culture from East Africa with an Indian culture? Perhaps you’d like to go for the Indian unit, hybrid naming, Indian architecture, African fashion, and finally hybrid CoAs. Actual combination is entirely up to you!

03_hybrid_aesthetics_1.jpg

[Image of Military Equipment, Naming Practices, and Architecture when forming a hybrid culture]

04_hybrid_aesthetics_2.jpg

[Image of Fashion and Coats of Arms when forming a hybrid culture]

The new hybrid culture will automatically acquire any innovation that either parent culture has discovered already, giving you the possibility to gain access to innovations that your previous culture has yet to discover.

Before we move on, there’s a prestige cost to forming a hybrid culture. Normally, creation isn’t very expensive, and relies more on having enough cultural acceptance for it to be valid. A high acceptance will reduce the cost though, making it fairly cheap if you have managed to greatly increase acceptance.

The initial size of a hybrid culture on the map also depends on the acceptance you’ve built up between the two cultures. If you decide to hybridize at the lowest required acceptance level, the hybrid will start out rather small. Rulers of hybrid cultures have a much easier time using the ‘Promote Culture’ council task in counties belonging to either of its parent cultures for a set amount of years after it has been formed.

Diverge Your Culture
A divergent culture is essentially a culture that deviates from their original culture, allowing you the opportunity to shape it as you see fit.

Similar to forming a hybrid, you get to choose a name for your new culture. The default name here on the other hand, depends on your primary title. Diverging a culture as the king of Anatolia can give you an Anatolian culture, or Austrian if you are the duke of Austria. This makes sure that divergent cultures always have a sensible name to them. At least most of the time. I did see a Wormsian culture in a recent observer game, from the county of Worms. As with hybridization, you are free to name it however you want if you don’t want to use the default name.

As for the pillars, options are slightly different. You can pick and choose any ethos. Language won’t have any additional options for you most of the time. Martial custom can be changed as long as you fulfill the conditions for them, which would include things such as having a corresponding succession law. Aesthetics will also rarely have additional options, except in some historical cases. Diverging from Norse in Sweden, for example, will give you access to Swedish Aesthetics.

You have to change at least one pillar in order to diverge your culture. Most of the time you won’t have a lot of valid alternatives for the additional pillars, so your only option will be to change your ethos.

05_diverge_pillars.jpg

[Image of pillars when diverging from an existing culture]

Traditions can be replaced with something new, as long as you are able to afford the tradition cost. Unlike hybridization, you will have plenty of options, and can replace a tradition with any other tradition that your culture fulfills the requirements of.

06_diverge_traditions.jpg

[Image of traditions when creating a divergent culture]

Diverging also costs prestige. Here the cost scales on how much of your own culture you control. Attempting to diverge Greek as Byzantium will be fairly expensive. Meanwhile, attempting to diverge a small part of your culture, such as a small Andalusian emir on the Iberian peninsula will be significantly cheaper.

Dynamic Culture Emergence
The above options describe how you as a player will be able to create new cultures, that doesn't mean that cultures won’t also appear dynamically. Over the course of a campaign, cultures may diverge depending on their situation.

For dynamic Divergent cultures we decided that we wanted them to feel immersive and logical whenever they showed up. There are many factors that go into this, such as the culture size, if the culture is ‘united’ under strong rulers, etc. Divergent cultures will appear either in border regions where a culture meets another (or several others), or in island regions. Divergences also do not appear in the capital lands of the Culture Head, in order to safeguard what is most likely the ‘heartland’ of the culture.
For example, one of the cultures that usually Diverge a few times (1066) is the Bedouin culture. It’s large, spread out, and some of its lands are under rulers that are not Bedouin themselves. On the other hand we have Greek; a large culture, but with practically all counties of its culture united under one ruler - they tend to not diverge unless territories go independent.

Hybridization, on the other hand, is something powerful rulers strive towards! If a ruler finds themselves ruling a large swathe of land of a foreign culture while at the same time having no motivation to assimilate, they’ll try and increase Cultural Acceptance until they’re eligible for Hybridization. They tend to want to hybridize with large cultures in their realm, the prime example being the Oghuz Seljuks wanting to Hybridize with Persian above all other cultures they have in their realm. Some AI rulers do not pursue hybridization though, such as large Elective realms (HRE) where cultures take turns being the top ruler, or realms such as the Papacy.

By default, the AI will not create hybrids-of-hybrids (unless historical hybrids, such as Maghrebi or English), as the naming schemes can quickly go out of hand. Though if you’d like the AI to do this, there’s a game rule you can enable...

There’s also a small chance that hybrids appear in realms of not so powerful rulers, this allows interesting hybrids such as Hiberno-Norse to appear even from tiny realms. This happens through an event that can also occur for the player. These events will most often happen for Cultures that have certain traditions that allow them to more easily create Hybrids with other cultures.

Naturally there’s a host of Game Rules that allow you to customize your experience. Do you want no Divergent or Hybrid cultures to appear at all? Set their frequencies to none. Do you want the AI to create hybrids of hybrids of hybrids of hybrids? Set the Hybrid Culture Restrictions to Very Relaxed!

07_game_rules.jpg

[Image of the new culture Game Rules]

To round things off, let’s take a look at a few examples of what the AI did during an observer game. First up, from the 867 start, and 200 years in. You’ll see quite a few new cultures here:
  • Ango-Norse, Hybrid Culture, emerged in 918.
  • Cumbro-Norse, Hybrid Culture, formed in 948.
  • Norse-Gael, Hybrid Culture, emerged in 1029.
  • You can also see that English has largely replaced Anglo-Saxon as the dominant culture in England.
08_cultures_in_britain.jpg

[Image of AI created cultures on the British islands]

Started in 867, and 100 years into the game:
  • Kufan, Bedouin Divergence, emerged in 933.
  • Badarayani, Mashriqi Divergence, emerged in 956.
  • Kurdo-Mashriqi, Hybrid Culture, emerged in 911.
  • Nihawandi, Persian Divergence, emerged in 907.
  • Shirvani, Persian Divergence, emerged in 946.
09_cultures_in_persia.jpg

[Image of AI created cultures in and around Persia]

In another game, started in 1066, a Swedish noblewoman was made queen in the newly established Kingdom of Jerusalem, following a successful crusade. After a few generations, the local cultures merged into what would become Mashriqi-Swedish! Ushering the kingdom into a new era of prosperity.

10_mashriqi_swedish_jerusalem.jpg

[Image of the Kingdom of Jerusalem becoming Mashriqi-Swedish]

11_mashriqi_swedish_culture.jpg

[Image of the culture window of Mashriqi-Swedish]

As mentioned earlier, we have a number of historical names for cultures that can appear in specific circumstances. If you have any cultural names that would make sense for a divergent or hybrid culture, let me know! Who knows? Perhaps your suggestion ends up in the game!

That's it for this time!
 
Will we be able to disable dynamic culture divergence, except for some historical cases (like Norse splitting into Danish/Swedish/Norwegian)? I know it'd be more immersive but I'd like the Greek culture to stay unified in my games, even if the Byzantine empire somehow falls apart. Same with other large cultures. Plus, I feel like the dynamic system would create a huge mess with cultures splitting apart like crazy in some cases (kind of like we see on the screenshots at the end of the OP).
 
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Will we be able to disable dynamic culture divergence, except for some historical cases (like Norse splitting into Danish/Swedish/Norwegian)? I know it'd be more immersive but I'd like Greek culture to stay unified in my games, even if the Byzantine empire somehow falls apart. Plus, I feel like the dynamic system would create a huge mess with cultures splitting apart like crazy in some cases.

The game options posted shows that you do have quite a bit of control over it but yeah, I agree. I don't really want to see the German cultures splitting up like crazy if the HRE breaks up for example. Hopefully the default settings are reasonably conservative unlike the current religious/cultural conversion settings where it goes way too fast by default imo.
 
I kinda doubt the part about Proto-Germanics being present before the Uralics, but apart from that I agree.
You're right, kind of. If Finnish linguist Pauli Rahkonen's research is to go by, an unknown West Uralic-speaking population simply identified as "language/branch x" preceded Finns, Sami, and the Proto-Germanic language spoken in Coastal Finland.

However, the Proto-Germanic language in Finland preceded both the Finns and the Sami. Its presence in modern Finland is supported by placenames which have etymologies that date back to Proto-Germanic, as well as loanwords in both Finnish and Sami that trace their origins to Proto-Germanic. Furthermore, the Scandinavian Bronze Age culture in Finland is identified with the Proto-Germanic linguistic evidence, as the Proto-Germanic placenames correspond with the overall spread of Scandinavian Bronze Age culture in Finland.
 
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Wdym? You can form hybrids with hybrids
Not by default.
By default, the AI will not create hybrids-of-hybrids (unless historical hybrids, such as Maghrebi or English), as the naming schemes can quickly go out of hand. Though if you’d like the AI to do this, there’s a game rule you can enable...

So English, arguably one of the more famous hybrid cultures, wouldn't be formable in their new fancy dynamic culture system if they didn't hardcode in an exception for it. Which is a bit humorous imo.

e; oh and I am obviously talking about the AI doing it since the player can do whatever he wants. The AI forming an Irish-Tibetan culture? Sure thing! The AI forming English? Oh shit, better code in an exception for that.
 
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Not by default.


So English, arguably one of the more famous hybrid cultures, wouldn't be formable in their new fancy dynamic culture system if they didn't hardcode in an exception for it. Which is a bit humorous imo.
It'd be formable by the player, since that restriction only applies to the AI.

But yes, it's a little strange. On the other hand they may have only put the default at one level of hybridisation *because* the event exists, otherwise they might have set it at two levels deep, and just made a special naming rule where an Anglo-Norman hybrid forming within de jure Britannia will be called English.
 
So now we are playing as the spirit of the nation in CKIII too? /s

Anyway, glad people are happy with this new feature but I would have like something more organic where hybrid culture are created after hundred of years, and their tenets being a mix, not some kind of "spent 8000 renow mana for that upgrade". There is way too much player control in this set up for my personnal taste (and I'll fight to death the "more player control is always better" motto).

I would like to ask for just one thing: is it possible to delay the creation of "english" culture a bit further down the line? Having William the conqueror convert to english culture feels so weird... He was a norman, you don't randomly become english because you wake up one day and say "hey let's be english"
Whilst it's certainly true that some cultures naturally merged together over time (Thinking of Sicily here as the best CK example), I don't think there is anything too out-there about a foreign ruler taking over land of a different culture and saying "Okay, I know we do things differently to each other, but I'm going to introduce some reforms to the way you peasants live, and in exchange, I'll adjust some of my behaviour too." It would be especially easy (and more likely) with nobles.

As long as, for example, it gives arrogant characters stress for combining cultures, as it is them admitting that they have to adjust their behaviour to match local traditions; and perhaps content characters gain stress for diverging, because they see no need to change centuries-old tradition; and a couple of other effects such as that so that it is clear that this is a "strong man of history" type-deal, with the addition that not all locals/nobles change to your new culture immediately, so you could still get factions rising up against your change, and if you did it just before succession your heir may have to change back, I would say that it is fleshed out enough for an alt-history simulator.
 
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It might not possible to hybridize Polish-Russian if they would both have Slavic heritage instead of West Slavic and East Slavic heritages. Regardless of that, either new culture would only use one parent culture's name list or combined name lists without any change, based on the choice made while creating the new culture.
Polish-Russian is just Ukrainian /s
 
You're right, kind of. If Finnish linguist Pauli Rahkonen's research is to go by, an unknown West Uralic-speaking population simply identified as "language/branch x" preceded Finns, Sami, and the Proto-Germanic language spoken in Coastal Finland.

However, the Proto-Germanic language in Finland preceded both the Finns and the Sami. Its presence in modern Finland is supported by placenames which have etymologies that date back to Proto-Germanic, as well as loanwords in both Finnish and Sami that trace their origins to Proto-Germanic. Furthermore, the Scandinavian Bronze Age culture in Finland is identified with the Proto-Germanic linguistic evidence, as the Proto-Germanic placenames correspond with the overall spread of Scandinavian Bronze Age culture in Finland.
Interesting read, I didn't know about the Proto-Germanic toponymic substrate up there!
 
I find it interesting that you'd ask for an Anglo-Norman culture. Historically that is called English.
But if you mean a possibility of alt-history where the hybrid culture is even more French than Germanic, or not the same culture as a possible later start-date's "default English" setup, I would be curious about that too. The system seems very interesting in terms of gameplay, but like the initial religion setup, I have to wonder how it's going to do at representing plausible cultural developments.
Or nuanced portrayals of cultural coexistence and mingling - the temptation to "ship" cultures might be a bit too strong and result in too many wacky hybrids.
The nobility and gentry literally spoke french until the Hundred Years War. I wrote my dissertation on "Englishness", it wasn't a thing amongst all of the population until the reign of Edward III when he started to promote things such as St George and the Order of the Garter to create a more distinct nobility when historically the nobility had straddled the channel.
 
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Polish-Russian is just Ukrainian /s
Wouldn't that be Ruthenian?

And how to model Rusyns and Belorussians I wonder...
 
Firstly, I want to say how much I like this development. This is excellent news, and I really like it.

I marked this comment 'disagree', but that's perhaps an unfair reflection of my views here.

On the one hand, for settings without diverse fantasy species, I'm fairly strongly against players being able to choose whether or not their hybrid culture contains mixed-race people. If you promote cultural mixing, you promote cultural mixing.

On the other hand, I totally get what you mean about incompatible fantasy races. As a dev on the Faerun mod for CK2, I've been partly responsible for the gargantuan results table governing which of our species can crossbreed with which others.

But on the gripping hand, maybe we need more granular control of this. In Faerun, there are dwarf-human hybrid cultures like Inugaakalikurit (arctic dwarf) in which dwarves (previously shield dwarves, I think) took on some but not all of the cultural trappings of a human culture, the Ulutiuns. The arctic dwarves are still dwarves, and haven't intermarried with the Ulutiuns despite many centuries of living alongside each other. But there are also the D'tarigs, who are believed to be (and treated in our mod as actually being) the half-dwarf descendants of shield dwarves from Tethyamar and humans (probably Bedine or some other post-Netherese culture).

I suppose the ideal would be a set of levers for the modders to control - what species is this culture? What other species can that species reproduce with? - and then another set for the players (or AI) to control - is this culture formed only of the species that make(s) up your current culture, or are you also intermarrying with the other species present? That way, if the two cultures only feature one species, or they both have the same existing mixture of species, you won't get to pull that lever - your Imperials and Nords, Shield Dwarves and Gold Dwarves, or whatever, will intermarry to some extent automatically. And if the two cultures have only incompatible species - Humans and Khajits, Halflings and Treants - then you just don't get the option to intermarry; your new culture may adopt elements of the other culture, but your species will carry on just being itself.

You have a very particular, and partial, view of Scottish history here, and loudly promoting it will not make it true.

I absolutely agree that in early start dates (eg 867) Scotland should be predominantly Gaelic-speaking, and what we now regard as Scottish culture should not yet exist. Arguably the same might be true in 1066, although that's right around the inflection point for court culture, as your correctly note the impact of Malcolm Canmore.

But the Scots language is not just a dialect of English; Scottish English is one thing, and Scots is another. They're related, of course - but English-speakers frequently labour under the misapprehension that their language does not exist on a continuum with any of its neighbours. And acknowledging the reality of Scots should not detract from the importance to Scotland, past and present, of Gaelic. It's not a zero-sum game; modern Scotland is a rich hybrid of different cultural elements, and the prominence among them of both Scots and Gaelic is important.

This isn't just an academic quibble; I've got books on my shelves here in Scots, including translations of popular children's books. A friend of mine speaks both Gaelic and Scots in addition to English (and several other languages).
Its a shame that American teenaged furry practically trashed the public perception of Scots as distinct language. Now its just seen as slang English from Scotland.
 
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Its a shame that American teenaged furry practically trashed the public perception of Scots as distinct language. Now its just seen as slang English from Scotland.
I agree that it's a struggle to get people outside Scotland (and Northern Ireland) to see Scots as a distinct language due to lazy misrepresentation, but what's this about furries? What did I miss?

nd
 
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In general, the West Slavic cultures present at the 867 start-date are rather anachronistic, as they're based on divisions introduced by states that had formed later on. At that time, there was nothing tying the Silesians more strongly to the Polans than to the Bohemians—they all spoke the same dialect of Proto-Slavic and were part of the same material culture.

It would make more sense for West Slavic to be a single culture at that start date which diverges later on based on kingdom formation. Heck, if Great Moravia survives and becomes the pre-eminent West Slavic polity, there is little reason why a separate Bohemian culture would develop. That said, I'm sure the separate cultures exist for gameplay reasons, but perhaps this cultural rework could provide the framework for a more historical starting setup that still diverges plausibly.
 
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Even by default. Just look at the dev diary ffs.

View attachment 734006

Plus, many game rules don't disable achievements when not set by default meaning they are 100% legitimate. They are mostly suggestions then guidelines



Looking at the dev diary would be a good idea indeed:
By default, the AI will not create hybrids-of-hybrids (unless historical hybrids, such as Maghrebi or English), as the naming schemes can quickly go out of hand. Though if you’d like the AI to do this, there’s a game rule you can enable...
I find myself thinking of stones and glass houses. ;)
 
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I agree that it's a struggle to get people outside Scotland (and Northern Ireland) to see Scots as a distinct language due to lazy misrepresentation, but what's this about furries? What did I miss?

nd
To keep a long story short a teenaged furaffinity user from America decided to start editing the scots language Wikipedia to the point that over half the articles are are just him writing how he imagined a broad accented Scottish person would pronounce english.
 
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  • Norse forming a hybrid culture with any Central Germanic culture (Bavarian, Dutch, Franconian, Frisian, German, Saxon, & Swabian) should be called Ascoman, in reference to the term "Ascomanni" that German sources used for the Vikings.

I'm not too familiar with Dutch and Frisian sources using the term "Ascomanni" or "Ascoman" for Vikings. Vikingen or Noormannen (Dutch) and Wytsingen or Witsingen (Frisian, close to Anglo-Saxon Wicingen) seems more common.
 
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I agree that it's a struggle to get people outside Scotland (and Northern Ireland) to see Scots as a distinct language due to lazy misrepresentation, but what's this about furries? What did I miss?

nd
In a nutshell: it turned out in August 2020 that Amaryllis Gardener, the admin and the most prolific user of Scots Wikipedia (responsible for writing over 100,000 pages, almost half of the Wiki's content), wrote the articles in mangled English with some words from Scots dictionaries thrown to the mix, while overruling and banning actual Scots-speaking users who objected erroneous entries. He joined the Wiki when he was 12 years old, is part of the furry community, and since Scots Wikipedia is the largest online source of Scots text most people have an erroneous image of Scots language as mangled English - hence the references to a teenaged furry causing more damage to Scots language than anybody else in history.
 
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Forumers: *keep requesting new cultures to be added to the game*

PDX: "Okay, let's solve this once and for all."
 
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Will we be able to disable dynamic culture divergence, except for some historical cases (like Norse splitting into Danish/Swedish/Norwegian)? I know it'd be more immersive but I'd like the Greek culture to stay unified in my games, even if the Byzantine empire somehow falls apart. Same with other large cultures. Plus, I feel like the dynamic system would create a huge mess with cultures splitting apart like crazy in some cases (kind of like we see on the screenshots at the end of the OP).
Greek wasn't a monolithic cultural block at the time even before the Turkish invasion led to Cappadocian Greek, there were a lot of distinct cultural languages like Pontic and Crimean Greek, the Italiote dialects, Cypriot greek and the Tsakonian language, the last descendent of Doric.
 
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