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CKIII Dev Diary #26 - Map Scope

Salutations!

As a continuation from last week, I will be talking about the scope of the map and, perhaps more importantly, showing you how it all actually looks. Get ready for a very screenshot heavy DD!

Europe
Europe has been reworked from the ground up. We made sure to give all of Europe proper attention when painting baronies and counties. It was important for us to make sure we have a good and consistent quality level across the map. I’m sure you’ll find eastern Europe in particular fleshed out with a lot more detail than what you may be used to in CK2.

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Since we’ve already shown bits and pieces of Europe in screenshots and videos, let’s have a look at a few specific locations, and what special buildings they have available. Starting with France, it felt like an obvious choice to include Notre-Dame, one of the most recognizable cathedrals of the time period.

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26_04_northern_france.jpg


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Next up, Iberia. Featuring two major rivers, plenty of hills and a few special buildings. In the county of Granada you’ll find Alhambra. While merely an old ruin at game start, it can be upgraded to offer some of the highest fortifications in the game.

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Speaking of special buildings. The city of the world’s desire, features not one, but two, special buildings. This makes Constantinople a very spectacular holding, and if that isn’t enough, it also has the highest development level in the game.

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Before moving on, I’ll just leave this culture screenshot right here:

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The Middle East
The Middle East has seen the same level of attention and rework as Europe, with some particular attention spent on updating history across the region. For example, the Seljuks control a vast empire in 1066, properly representing their historical borders. They have a plethora of different cultures as their subjects and may fall apart if not careful.

26_13_seljuk.jpg


Development in the region is above your average starting levels. Baghdad, for example, starts out with one of the highest levels of development in the game — bested only by a few other locations such as Constantinople! Baghdad also has one of the single most impressive special buildings available, the House of Wisdom.

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Africa
Africa has seen some of the greatest additions to the map. No longer cut in half, the Sub-Saharan kingdoms have plenty of space to expand in as we have included the entire Nigerian coast.

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We have a total of five different pagan faiths to play as, giving you plenty of different options. A solid first pick would be Benin, within the Niger delta. They start off with a decent development level and access to a special building: The massive construction that is the Walls of Benin.

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Some cultures will start with the ability to sail major rivers, allowing them to use the Niger to quickly ferry troops back and forth. The coast on the other hand, will be open for everyone to use. You won’t be able to sail around the African coast to reach Europe however, or vice versa. That route is blocked by impassable sea, since it was often difficult, if not impossible, to sail along the western coast due to storms and rough seas. No viking raids in Africa, I’m afraid!

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Let’s not forget the Horn of Africa. Expanded to include Mogadishu, the area offers more space to play in, with christian, muslim, jewish, and pagan rulers all wanting a piece of each other.

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Finally, let's mention Egypt. A rich area that has a lot of floodplains, good development levels, and even a couple of special buildings. All encompassed by the Nile, a major river with green and lush vegetation.

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The Far East
Looking east, the map has been expanded to include the entirety of Tibet, along with a small extension of Mongolia, accompanied by a whole set of new cultures and faiths!

Starting with Tibet, the area has a whole bunch of independent realms since the Tibetan Empire is long gone by the time of our two start dates. There’s a wide range of rulers of different faiths and cultures spread out across the plateau. The two most prominent faiths being Bön and Nangchos, a Buddhist faith syncretized with different Tibetan beliefs and practices.

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Turning to Mongolia, there is a powerhouse present in both bookmarks. In 867, you have the Kirghiz Khanate, and Great Liao in 1066. Counties and provinces include Karakorum and the entire area surrounding lake Baikal.

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Expanding Tibet and Mongolia left us with a small empty space in the south, and we really couldn’t have that, now could we? So we went ahead and filled out Myanmar (or Burma) down to the Gulf of Martaban with brand new baronies and counties. Which gives you two rather interesting starting options. In 1066, you’ll be able to play as king Anawrahta of the Pagan Kingdom. Starting shortly after his conquest of the Mon kingdoms to the south, most of the area will already be under his control, giving you a great opportunity to push into India! Alternatively you can start as Pagan in 867, yet a small and upstarting kingdom, allowing you to play with the unique faith of Ari Buddhism.

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I’ll wrap it up here. Otherwise I’ll end up posting screenshots all day. Do you think I missed an important area somewhere? Let me know and maybe, just maybe, I’ll see if I can’t share some more.
 
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Hm, would the local inhabitants know that Khufu [Cheops] built one of the pyramids? Hieroglyphs wouldn't be translated until the turn of the 19th century, after all. And although Herodotus did write about them, the knowledge that they were tombs was lost to Europe at least; not sure about local Muslims.
 
I'll just say I'm rather disappointed Africa got so much attention for 1066, but China and Japan as prominent feudal states of the world did not.

EDIT: for those giving me the red X, I don't mind Africa got attention, the lack of East Asia is what I'm complaining about.
I agree I would have rather seen East Asia than Sub-Saharan Africa, but that alas, people on these forums can't handle any opinions that aren't worded in a positive way.
 
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I have to say, I'm not really a fan of the river borders as they appear on the map. Any way we could make it so we can actually see the shoreline?

Otherwise, it looks really great.
 
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I'm not sure I agree that the map reflects this "mapbuilding feature" as you call it. Looking at the screenshots provided in the dev diary I think they're a pretty good approximation of the reality as shown in your map
Maybe you should check again.
There is clearly a difference between North and Southern France, but no difference in Iberia.


EDIT: Seems like some people "respectfully disagree" with the existence of this visually evident difference.

Let me help you see what i mean:

There is a clear and sharp difference betwen lushfulness and dryness in the middle of France
The French divide.jpg


However all of Iberia shares the same level of lushfulness/dryness
The Iberian uniformity.jpg


And I argue that Iberia has a far wider lushfulness/dryness gap than France, as well as clearer sharp divisions (see my previous comment where i elaborate where)
 
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Great Dev Diary!

I had no expectations or interest when the North Africa map expansion was mentioned but seeing it here really does peak an interest for new area & gameplay exploration in Crusader Kings!
I'm also very interested to see what 867CE Britain will look like with cultures, religion (hopeful to see some Anglo/Celtic paganism options!) and map upgrades (Offa's Dyke, Stonehenge, Hadrian's Wall).

I do have one Question:

All screenshots containing Empire-Tier & Kingdom-Tier flags appear with a single shape: \/
However all Duchy-Tier & County-Tier flags show a variety of lower shapes including: \/ vvv |/
Is this because of culture, independent realm status or something else?
 
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I agree I would have rather seen East Asia than Sub-Saharan Africa, but that alas, people on these forums can't handle any opinions that aren't worded in a positive way.

And I don't want China and Japan in. At least for the launch. China is one of the empires that needs an imperial government, which in the launch is not possible or even planned. There were many issues and complaints from the fans of the ERE and same goes for China (in the case the ERE was a region that is not avoidable in this game and played a huge part in the timeline). Also, in my mind Japan would also need a different type of government than feudal or clans or tribal. I would love to have East Asia in, but as long as the imperial government is not implemented, it is not feasible.

And one additional point. Playing out one region against another is usually not the best to manifest your opinion (some of us waited for the current split of the African religions and the removal of the cuts of Mali and Somalia). As I said, I would love East Asia, but for now, it is not feasible.
 
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Love these screenshots. Thanks for the second round as well. Really wish this game would come out tomorrow so I can spend the quarantine playing it!

I only have one quibble. While I think all the unique buildings are great and some of the mechanics seems super cool, I don't like that you are stuck with exclusively historical special buildings and won't be able to create your own. I really enjoy building and customizing my own great works in CK2 and I feel like it doesn't fit with the ethos of creating my own story in the sandbox of the world to remove that option.

However, I do get that you're going for a balanced spread of relatively desirable special buildings to promote realistic conflict between realms, which I think is a great idea. I will propose a compromise that maybe you'll consider for a future update:

Allow the building of only one unique special building *ever* for any House (or maybe even Dynasty) and have the option be locked behind the highest levels of Fame/Devotion (depending on what you're building). The building must be in a very high development county and a certain distance from any other special buildings (maybe have no other special buildings in the same de jure duchy or even in neighboring duchies depending on balance), and it is extremely expensive (along the lines of 1k base and several hundred for each feature beyond that). I would imagine building it would also cost Renown, since this is something that will forever be associated with your House/Dynasty.

I feel like that combination of factors will make it so that the gameplay dynamic of rare, powerful, highly sought after special buildings is maintained while still allowing a player who has a famous Emperor with a ton of cash to build the palace of his dreams.
 
How is the map data saved for CK3? Is it similar to CK2? I mainly ask since Imperator was apparently based on the early CK3 and Imperator has an absolutely awful system for it's map setup all being in a single file that makes mod compatibility an incredible pain.
 
And I don't want China and Japan in. At least for the launch. China is one of the empires that needs an imperial government, which in the launch is not possible or even planned. There were many issues and complaints from the fans of the ERE and same goes for China (in the case the ERE was a region that is not avoidable in this game and played a huge part in the timeline). Also, in my mind Japan would also need a different type of government than feudal or clans or tribal. I would love to have East Asia in, but as long as the imperial government is not implemented, it is not feasible.

And one additional point. Playing out one region against another is usually not the best to manifest your opinion (some of us waited for the current split of the African religions and the removal of the cuts of Mali and Somalia). As I said, I would love East Asia, but for now, it is not feasible.
I am about 80% sure that, if the game does well, we will be seeing a map extension into East and Southeast Asia. There's a lot of demand for it, it was supposedly the devs' intention for Jade Dragon before they realized CK2's engine couldn't handle it, and it would resolve some present awkwardness: the eastern border of the map is completely arbitrary; Mongols exist in this weird hybrid state, not being entirely inside the map; only about half of Liao is in for 1066; the Chola Kingdom was heavily involved in Southeast Asia and should probably own land there in the 1066 start date, etc.

I do want the entire medieval world to be represented eventually. That goal's so close now! But yes, it would first require a whole slew of new mechanics. We need a proper naval system for Southeast Asia and a bureaucratic imperial government for China. I'm not even sure how to simulate the drastic transformation Japan underwent from Heian to Kamakura and Muromachi. Such things are better left for when the game is in much firmer ground.
 
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Hello. In penultimate screenshot invalid name present. Khakass hollow actually called Minusinsk hollow (check wiki). I live there.

What if Khakass hollow is a Mongolian cultural name? I believe the name shall be changed when a Russian takes control of it.
 
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I like the new map both in terms of look and the additions to Africa and Asia. Also the new on map baronies seem to work really well with the rivers.

My small nitpick is the major river.

Can the major rivers be coloured in on the political, religions, and other similar map modes if surrounded (similar to impassible terrain). Feel that major rivers that only touch land of one colour (e.g. all the same realm), should be coloured to match. Even if they have some slightly different shading, some thing to make them more subtle as I don't think the major river locations are important enough on these map modes to stand out so much.

Also could the yellow dotted line around major rivers be softened a little when not on the border between to realms. I understand that it need to stand out for game purposes, but I find especially in the northern France picture that it clashes a bit with the aesthetic. I think softening it a bit might strike a better balance between functionality and aesthetic (though I understand that this is largely subjective).
 
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It seems my reply was deleted when the servers were taken off, so I'll just repost it. It is kind of a shame to see the Levant looking more simplistic when Imperator was more representative of its biodiversity and terrain
1589343164789.png
 
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Time for some big brain vibe checking of African religions' names


Akom: No complains here, a proper name for the faith of Ashantiland, and less generic than just Akan Paganism.

Bori: Yeah, I can see that B on the side. It’s Bori, it’s a good name. Moving on.

Bidaic: Assuming this is the cult of Bida the serpent. It works, not much worse than other alternatives. It’s a made up word, but one that makes sense.

Roogan: I am pretty sure in a previous diary this one was called Roog Sene. At this point I am pretty sure the reason why Paradox doesn’t just give A ƭat Roog its proper name is because their system can’t handle the letter Ƭ . Which is a technical issue, I am not going to pretend I understand the limitations programmers face. Not a fan, but they are probably doing their best.

Siguic: Ok, this one is bad. The Sigui is a very important festival among the Dogon, but calling the entire religion after a festival seems very weird. I suggest they follow the pattern they established with Roogan and Bidaic and just name the religion after the head god Amma.

Orisan: This one is bad because there is a much much better alternative available, Ifá. I assume that by this they meant the cult of the Orishas, but the catch is that only the Yoruba call their gods that. Ifá, however is the name of the religious practice and is also used in the rest of the region (the Igbos and Ewes call it Afá). A proper well extended name is much preferable to a made up one.

[I had this make this one twice, curse you server update!]
 
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