• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

CO Word of the Week #10

Hi Everyone! Let’s talk about the patching process and upcoming patch landing soon for Cities: Skylines II.

Generally speaking, patching the game is something we usually try to combine with upcoming releases, and only work on solely bug fixing patches if we don’t have a suitable release we can wait for. Or the fix is critical to release as fast as possible - a so-called hotfix patch. You may remember the free updates associated with the DLC releases in Cities: Skylines and in the long term that is the goal with the sequel as well. It’s a good way to sneak in some cool features and improvements to all the players, beefing up the base game, and making certain features part of it while the paid content expands on those new features allowing us to continue developing the game forward. One of the first examples of this approach was After Dark where the free update added the day and night cycle to all players and the DLC itself had specific content and features for the nightlife.

So we are working to improve the quality of Cities: Skylines II, just like we did with the first game, and this includes both improvements to the base as well as creating new content as paid DLC. We worked at a fast pace after the release last October to get as many fixes in as we could. Patching the game so often does take resources in itself so we opted out for a less frequent pace to focus on bigger additions and more impactful updates in the future. Therefore the upcoming patch 1.0.19 is the last “stand-alone” bug fixing patch for now. Next time the bug fixes will be joined by the first of the modding support for the game, albeit it will not be the final version but a public beta one as mentioned last week.

We’re working on a wide variety of fixes and improvements on top of the missing modding support and platforms. We have a list of reported issues from both you, QA, and the team here at Colossal Order. These issues are sorted based on the level of their severity and the time it takes to implement them so that we can churn out as many improvements to the game as possible with the time and resources we have available.

In practice, the patching process starts with the build version being locked so that no more changes are committed to it by the devs. The build goes through at least one QA round, where the listed issues are verified as either fixed or still occurring. Any new issues with the build are reported as well. Any outstanding issues are fixed and the new locked build version goes to QA. This step usually takes less than a week but can take longer depending on issues found and how quickly those are fixed. After the devs are happy with the build version it's sent to the publisher for their checks, including submissions to each platform and setting the patch ready to go live for the public. This can take a couple of days to a few weeks depending on the size and content of the patch. The release is always aimed so that it wouldn’t be right before the weekend, just to make sure that if any issues occur on the public release there is a team available to check it out. In the meantime, the devs are working on the game toward the next release whether it be fixes, improvements, or new content.

Patch 1.0.19 will include a collection of fixes for issues we’ve discovered internally or have been reported to us by you. Thank you again for all the reports, it’s much appreciated! Full patch notes will be available when the patch is released, but here’s a little summary of the things we’ve been working on.

Improvements to the gameplay are mainly focusing on the land value:
- Land value will be affected by ground pollution. The ground pollution will first slowly reduce the land value increasing, and when the pollution gets worse it will start to decrease the land value
- Land value won't decrease to 0 even with heavily polluted land
- Land value will increase according to industrial company's profitability value
Land value is likely to receive more love in future updates, but more on that in the future.
On top of these, we’ve also improved the search for parking spaces. Anyone who is driving a car in a bigger city knows how tricky it can be!

Some balancing work went into the Incinerator Plant as building the Extra Incinerator Furnace upgrade would cause it to produce less electricity, the opposite of what the effect should be, and little tweaks were introduced to the resources to avoid traffic jams at the cargo stations. Then there was the appropriate care put into the youth as the teens and children required balancing for their spawn rates and now more teens are entering the High School to get educated. Think about the children, they say!

No patch without some focus on the performance. This time we’ve optimized shadow culling, pathfind scheduling (especially visible as faster and more stable simulation speed in very large cities), added cooldown to avoid too many queries on citizens seeking education when the city doesn’t have enough schools, and reordered some rendering related systems to reduce waiting in the main thread.

Last but not least, the patch fixes issues in the statistics panel, multiple cases of random crashes (crash to desktop when selecting "moving in" household, after modifying roads with citizen group at specific state, and when modifying road with pedestrian path connected in a specific way, to name a few) as well as added some missing text and translations.

The devs at Colossal Order are fully focusing on improving Cities: Skylines II further after patch 1.0.19 is out. Actions speak louder than words so we’ll pause these weekly posts and be back when we cover the content of the next patch/release for the game. Keep following our social channels for the latest updates and have a lovely week!

Sincerely,
Mariina
 
Last edited:
  • 100Like
  • 48
  • 11
  • 4Haha
  • 3Love
  • 2
Reactions:
Well, the bright side is if the patch is good and doesn't cause more problems, I'll be the first to say fluffy and happy things about it.
Cargo traffic, CPU performance tweaks, Land value, and the Chart statistics are big issues.
Should help a lot of people.
 
  • 4Like
Reactions:
Last but not least, the patch fixes issues in the statistics panel, multiple cases of random crashes (crash to desktop when selecting "moving in" household, after modifying roads with citizen group at specific state, and when modifying road with pedestrian path connected in a specific way, to name a few)
How are "random crashes to desktop" not your #1 priority? Especially when you can name three instances, but those are just "a few"? That's the definition of "game not working" that should be refundable (which we know won't happen)

Some balancing work went into the Incinerator Plant as building the Extra Incinerator Furnace upgrade would cause it to produce less electricity, the opposite of what the effect should be
The incinerator working opposite as intended required "some work"? Must be tough to change a minus to a plus... (I'm a developer myself, so I know it might be more difficult than that, in which case: see below)

only work on solely bug fixing patches if we don’t have a suitable release we can wait for. Or the fix is critical to release as fast as possible - a so-called hotfix patch
With 4000+ pending bugs, you really think the game is good enough that it no longer needs hotfixes? [to be continued...]

These issues are sorted based on the level of their severity and the time it takes to implement them
[continued...] Or aren't you capable to fix them in a timely manner?

You never addressed the topic of key developers leaving your team, as pondered after the last WoW. You only answered that your team size stayed roughly the same... but a certain total of employees doesn't correlate to their overall performance...

Actions speak louder than words
Inaction speaks louder than words, too... I guess that answers my last question

No patch without some focus on the performance
There is a mod fixing path-finding, resulting in a 2x performance increase. Did you incorporate it into your next patch, and acknowledge the modder? Maybe offer him a job? He obviously knows more than your devs...
(Didn't mean to sound toxic towards your devs, just stating facts...)
 
  • 15Like
  • 1
Reactions:
Who determines what's considered a "hot-fix" bug that gets patched in ASAP and what gets delayed to be pushed out in updates alongside DLC releases? There are several game-ruining bugs that many players would consider necessary for a "hot-fix patch" and don't want to see further delayed until DLC is ready.
According to the timelines which have been given, the answer is quite simple: as long as a certain bug doesn't make it impossible to start the game (meaning that you can run the game), you will have to wait for the patch until they have finished something else they want to release, may the potential patch be ready or not.
 
  • 4Like
  • 3
Reactions:
Who determines what's considered a "hot-fix" bug that gets patched in ASAP and what gets delayed to be pushed out in updates alongside DLC releases? There are several game-ruining bugs that many players would consider necessary for a "hot-fix patch" and don't want to see further delayed until DLC is ready.
Oh, that is very simple. Does the bug affect sales from consoles? If yes - critical. Does the bug affect sales from paid DLCs? If yes - critical. If both answers are NO, then the bug is not critical and will never be fixed. :cool:
 
  • 12Like
  • 3Haha
Reactions:
I removed this game from my wishlist and unfollowed on Steam today. Also gonna stop reading here. At least I'll try.

Ignoring numerous complaints. Working on console release before fixing the game. Working on paid DLC before fixing the game. Not apologizing. Not refunding. Keep making vague statements. Not being completely honest. The list goes on and on.

CO willfully keeps making decisions that prioritize their commercial interests instead of the customers. At this point I don't believe this will change, this is apparently just who they've become.

Corpo gonks.
 
  • 13
  • 8Like
  • 1
Reactions:
Oh great, so water physics just remains untouched

420525349_2732458213574409_76833257234743265_n.jpg
420567813_2732522100234687_6070939523349450977_n.jpg
 
  • 18Like
  • 1Haha
Reactions:
Damn, I knew it's gonna happen, but never suspected it will be this soon lmao
Best move they could make - just look at the number of 'disagree' reactions on past WOWs.

In the year 2000 you would purchase a finished, working product that wouldn't need any work done afterwards.

In the year 2024 you purchase an unfinished product and the 'free updates' are fixing it to the state it should have been released in.

I'm not so optimistic to think CS2 will get to the state it should have been released in. I fear of the issues that don't make it completely unplayable only a fraction will get fixed. I bet soon enough the focus will be on selling DLC - this is Paradox after all. :(
 
  • 5Like
  • 1
Reactions:
Since you asked for an opinion I will give mine.
As I owner of an ultimate edition makes me even less biased because I prefer the paid content to be delayed and have a good and working base game.

I would prefer you to have your dev capacity 70% for bugs and 30% for new content in this early stage rather than making a DLC or even new content the priority. I also don't understand why waiting for release with new content to release the fixes. It makes sense at a later stage but not now.

I am afraid that you are pushing the mod support because you know it can fix some of the problems people have and they will also stop complaining about it, the problem is mods won't solve some of the core mechanics.
Sometimes I prefer to not play my 400k and wait for it to be improved because I know some of the problems that I have in my city are bugs or are just unbalanced. Just some examples:
  • Trains and buses getting stuck at stops.
  • Cars getting stuck on roundabouts.
  • Need to spam elementary schools (but this could be arguable).
  • A huge influx of taxis into my city when cities are made close to the borders (more people had these problems and it doesn't seem lack of public transport with connections to outside).
  • Max demand for industry, offices and commercial but no demand for residential. Some industry buildings say that need workers (and aren't just one type of workers) but there is no residential demand. I don't know the problem the city information panel also doesn't help to understand because it gives contradictory information. It could be a problem with my city setup.
  • I have to use a mod to make the traffic lights "functional" in large cities and a mod to choose the lane directions. This is a game from the ground that everyone who played the CS1 knows is fundamental for the game and would dream to be natively implemented. However, I can understand depending on the explanation. My opinion still is that this should be done natively since is a must-have, a mod shouldn't be an essential or a "requirement".
  • Roundabouts don't work as well as it was on CS1.
  • With 400k, no DLC content and just a mod for the traffic lights and lane directions my Ryzen 7 5800X sometimes freezes and it's pinned close to 100%. I like the idea of being a game for the future but I think for now it needs to be optimized and fixed to give more room for the CPU to work. Adding more content just will make it worse.
  • Sometimes you can see some weird visual artifacts.
  • I am sure there is something more that I am not remembering now.
Some of the stuff that I mentioned before can be my city setup problem. If so I need tools/info to understand that, without that as an experienced player I don't understand the problem even fewer people who are less experienced will understand.
I hope you take this not as an offence or some crybaby. I just want everyone to enjoy the experience, as players and also you devs. As a dev, I understand this very well.
I don't mind waiting but in a way that I understand why and for what we are waiting. It could be a simple "It's very hard to fix/implement that, we need time". If you don't want to make this Word of the Week, make it Word of the Month or Word of the Release, please don't go full mute.

Nevertheless, I like a lot of stuff on CS2 and could be an amazing game that I hope that it becomes.

TLDR: Please focus on the base core game, then on new content and then DLCs.
 
Last edited:
  • 18Like
  • 4
Reactions:
There is a mod fixing path-finding, resulting in a 2x performance increase. Did you incorporate it into your next patch, and acknowledge the modder? Maybe offer him a job? He obviously knows more than your devs...
(Didn't mean to sound toxic towards your devs, just stating facts...)

I doubt that will ever happen. The mod you've mentioned oversimplifies many aspects of the simulation. It's more of a band-aid for the time being but it's definitely not a fix.
 
  • 5Like
Reactions:
They have to do this because the dlc are part of the Ultimate edition and people have paid for it already. Unlike many valid things to be angry about, this isn't one of them.
It kinda is. I understand that some people already paid for DLC but there's not much use of it if the base game isn't working properly.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
Fine. NO communication. NO fix. NO editor. NO mod. NO region pack.
STOP teaching us the process of releasing a patch. It is what YOU should know, not we should know. Every game maker experiences the same process, you are not the only one.
If CO can't handle the situation, just refund all your customers, go away, give up your worst game, and never disgusting us again.
 
  • 17Like
  • 5
  • 2Haha
Reactions:
I doubt that will ever happen. The mod you've mentioned oversimplifies many aspects of the simulation. It's more of a band-aid for the time being but it's definitely not a fix.
However, what CO can do is just oversiplifying aspects of the simulation, even worse than mods. Just like fps improvement, they simplified LOD so that objects 100 meters away from the camera is missing.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
We worked at a fast pace after the release last October to get as many fixes in as we could. Patching the game so often

Sincerely,
Mariina

Laughable!

FYI, the game is still broken and has been since you released/sold it to people at least a year too early, knowing full well it was broken and unfinished!!
It is now end of Jan and still, its broken and unfinished, months later.
 
  • 15Like
  • 2
Reactions:
Well, I have been enjoying the game despite the issues, and have been trying to contribute with the game and be patience since the launch.

But as someone that worked 9 years as a Project Manager and with customers, and another 13 as developer, I can't really support the decision to shift the team development.

The game is not on a good/stable state, and unless you pull a magical patch, I don't see it being ready to be considered stable enough to focus on longer patch rollouts already with new content.

Feels a wrong move.
 
  • 29Like
  • 4
Reactions:
Bad decisions after bad decisions. I am so sad and disappointed. After this post, user base of online players went down even further. You are digging your own grave. Who is going to buy a DLC after all this mess… not me!
 
  • 24Like
Reactions:
How are "random crashes to desktop" not your #1 priority? Especially when you can name three instances, but those are just "a few"? That's the definition of "game not working" that should be refundable (which we know won't happen)


The incinerator working opposite as intended required "some work"? Must be tough to change a minus to a plus... (I'm a developer myself, so I know it might be more difficult than that, in which case: see below)


With 4000+ pending bugs, you really think the game is good enough that it no longer needs hotfixes? [to be continued...]


[continued...] Or aren't you capable to fix them in a timely manner?

You never addressed the topic of key developers leaving your team, as pondered after the last WoW. You only answered that your team size stayed roughly the same... but a certain total of employees doesn't correlate to their overall performance...


Inaction speaks louder than words, too... I guess that answers my last question


There is a mod fixing path-finding, resulting in a 2x performance increase. Did you incorporate it into your next patch, and acknowledge the modder? Maybe offer him a job? He obviously knows more than your devs...
(Didn't mean to sound toxic towards your devs, just stating facts...)
I think the fact that you paid for a game does not give you the right to come up with opinions about how the company is managed inside it. We are all skilled behind the keyboard and find subjective solutions, but we forget that this is a game that develops over a long period of time. Regarding the mode you mentioned, I want to remind you that it's not a fix, it's just a cancellation of some things in the game like cutting almost all transports features in the game. Stop seeing moders like Gods: they come with a mod but not with the RESPONSABILITY that , that mod could break the game or cut some features alongside them.
On the other hand , Idk If they use Jira to report and maintain evidente of bugs internal , but this software has a simple way to show which bugs are critical , gamebreaking , etc. They can make a resume from there to inform the community about the state of them.
Also, reducing the amount of wows IT s a good PR move to extinguish the flame around the game from the last period. QA pass i think IT was a little wrong with such big amount of bugs validation. But maybe this is a good strategy in the long-term and i am wrong! ;)
 
  • 5
  • 1Like
  • 1Haha
Reactions:
@co_avanya

It sounds like a final decision has been made for now in regard to the cadence of communication and patches to the game.

A few constructive thoughts:

1) I would encourage CO to consider writing a word of the week halfway between today and the end of March patch that’ll hopefully bring editor support. In that word of the week, there should be a few things:
A) An update on whether the Editor beta is on track for an end of March release
B) An update on paid DLC release for the ultimate edition.
C) A quick blurb on most critical (1-3) bugs being worked on
D) A brief overview on performance work on the gpu and cpu side of things with a focus on outcomes in a data centric way (i.e; on recommended specs we expect a 5% uplift in fps, and 10% boost in simulation speed for cities with populations between 100-150k).
E) Anything of substance related to the asset editor as that’s impacting the console release.

Some of us are really curious about the details but we care even more about the impact of the work being done. In short, yes, tell us that you’re working on shadow culling, for example, but also share the expected consequence of that work to the extent possible (as a collective, not item by item). Obviously, acknowledge that mileage may vary across systems.


2) Patch Frequency

It’s evident that the team’s preference is to deliver larger and more substantive patches on a less frequent basis. The community seems to think weekly hot fixes should be the way forward. I think there’s a middle ground that should be explored—one patch per month or bimonthly until performance benchmarks are reached on recommended specs (30fps/1080p) and critical bugs are addressed. I’m not sure how to best define critical bugs but perhaps sharing your internal definition would help, or offering the community options on how you should define it.

3) Game Completion

You’ve already publicly stated that the team ran out of time. However, you’ve left us to theorize about what the impact was. Undoubtedly, some things got deprioritized. I believe that you can and should tell us the things you are 100% committed to delivering via free updates in the future that didn’t make it for release. I understand that some of these items now may be repackaged as “future new features (paid or free)” and that you might want to guard that information. However, there’s such low hanging fruit in the realm of visual features that it is silly to not commit to making improvements. In this realm I might include:
A) Cim animations (parks, public hangout areas, cruises)
B) Snow accumulation on surfaces, such as roads, grass, pavement, etc.
C) Snow visual LODs disappearing when zoomed out
C) Snow covered windshields on vehicles
D) Visual decay - just like trash piles up, I’m sure properties were supposed to look run down if not maintained.

I understand you may not want to provide timetables and might scrap some of these items altogether. But if you’re 100% set on delivering them sometime in the next 24 months no matter what, I think you should say so and stick to it if you do. If not, your current approach is the right one and it also speaks volumes since it tells us we shouldn’t expect these unfinished aspects to ever get addressed.

Respectfully,
A city builder.
 
  • 5Like
  • 2
Reactions: