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CO Word of the Week #10

Hi Everyone! Let’s talk about the patching process and upcoming patch landing soon for Cities: Skylines II.

Generally speaking, patching the game is something we usually try to combine with upcoming releases, and only work on solely bug fixing patches if we don’t have a suitable release we can wait for. Or the fix is critical to release as fast as possible - a so-called hotfix patch. You may remember the free updates associated with the DLC releases in Cities: Skylines and in the long term that is the goal with the sequel as well. It’s a good way to sneak in some cool features and improvements to all the players, beefing up the base game, and making certain features part of it while the paid content expands on those new features allowing us to continue developing the game forward. One of the first examples of this approach was After Dark where the free update added the day and night cycle to all players and the DLC itself had specific content and features for the nightlife.

So we are working to improve the quality of Cities: Skylines II, just like we did with the first game, and this includes both improvements to the base as well as creating new content as paid DLC. We worked at a fast pace after the release last October to get as many fixes in as we could. Patching the game so often does take resources in itself so we opted out for a less frequent pace to focus on bigger additions and more impactful updates in the future. Therefore the upcoming patch 1.0.19 is the last “stand-alone” bug fixing patch for now. Next time the bug fixes will be joined by the first of the modding support for the game, albeit it will not be the final version but a public beta one as mentioned last week.

We’re working on a wide variety of fixes and improvements on top of the missing modding support and platforms. We have a list of reported issues from both you, QA, and the team here at Colossal Order. These issues are sorted based on the level of their severity and the time it takes to implement them so that we can churn out as many improvements to the game as possible with the time and resources we have available.

In practice, the patching process starts with the build version being locked so that no more changes are committed to it by the devs. The build goes through at least one QA round, where the listed issues are verified as either fixed or still occurring. Any new issues with the build are reported as well. Any outstanding issues are fixed and the new locked build version goes to QA. This step usually takes less than a week but can take longer depending on issues found and how quickly those are fixed. After the devs are happy with the build version it's sent to the publisher for their checks, including submissions to each platform and setting the patch ready to go live for the public. This can take a couple of days to a few weeks depending on the size and content of the patch. The release is always aimed so that it wouldn’t be right before the weekend, just to make sure that if any issues occur on the public release there is a team available to check it out. In the meantime, the devs are working on the game toward the next release whether it be fixes, improvements, or new content.

Patch 1.0.19 will include a collection of fixes for issues we’ve discovered internally or have been reported to us by you. Thank you again for all the reports, it’s much appreciated! Full patch notes will be available when the patch is released, but here’s a little summary of the things we’ve been working on.

Improvements to the gameplay are mainly focusing on the land value:
- Land value will be affected by ground pollution. The ground pollution will first slowly reduce the land value increasing, and when the pollution gets worse it will start to decrease the land value
- Land value won't decrease to 0 even with heavily polluted land
- Land value will increase according to industrial company's profitability value
Land value is likely to receive more love in future updates, but more on that in the future.
On top of these, we’ve also improved the search for parking spaces. Anyone who is driving a car in a bigger city knows how tricky it can be!

Some balancing work went into the Incinerator Plant as building the Extra Incinerator Furnace upgrade would cause it to produce less electricity, the opposite of what the effect should be, and little tweaks were introduced to the resources to avoid traffic jams at the cargo stations. Then there was the appropriate care put into the youth as the teens and children required balancing for their spawn rates and now more teens are entering the High School to get educated. Think about the children, they say!

No patch without some focus on the performance. This time we’ve optimized shadow culling, pathfind scheduling (especially visible as faster and more stable simulation speed in very large cities), added cooldown to avoid too many queries on citizens seeking education when the city doesn’t have enough schools, and reordered some rendering related systems to reduce waiting in the main thread.

Last but not least, the patch fixes issues in the statistics panel, multiple cases of random crashes (crash to desktop when selecting "moving in" household, after modifying roads with citizen group at specific state, and when modifying road with pedestrian path connected in a specific way, to name a few) as well as added some missing text and translations.

The devs at Colossal Order are fully focusing on improving Cities: Skylines II further after patch 1.0.19 is out. Actions speak louder than words so we’ll pause these weekly posts and be back when we cover the content of the next patch/release for the game. Keep following our social channels for the latest updates and have a lovely week!

Sincerely,
Mariina
 
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Nothing is mentioned but I hope that the public transport problem will be fixed once and for all. Trams, buses, subways, stand at stops without picking up passengers.
Please this. This bug makes the public transport totally unusable. In my city a public transport system grinds to a halt because of this. Every 5 minutes a tram, bus or train freezes causing massive traffic jams, simulation slow downs and hiccups.

I stopped playing the game because of this bug and I hoped for the last 2 months a patch would fix this issue. It one of the most upvoted bugs. Even more then the landvalue bug.

I really love the game and I am saddened that I can't play the game anymore because this bug causes so much frustration and takes all the fun out of playing.

Really thought that this bug would be fixed soon because CO has such experience in public transport games.
 
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I hope the patch will be bigger than only issues mentioned in the WotW. However, looking at topics chosen to be highlighted, it seems that we are at the very begining of the backlog. Those issues were reported briefly after the release.
This is actually bad news knowing that another next patch will be in 1,5-2 months after 1.0.19 and the backlog is absurdly huge. Because this WotW clearly states that from now on, new content will have priority. I am afraid that whatever is not deemed "gameplay critical" by CO will NEVER be fixed. Same story as with CS1, new content buried older less-critical bugs and they stayed forever.
 
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They said this is the last stand-alone bugfixing patch, and they are addressing only a few of the hundreds of bugs in this one.
They stated that bugfixes will be included in future DLC, meaning if you don't buy the DLC, you don't get a bugfix.
Bugfixes should be standalone, in order to fix the brokenness of the game, not locked behind paid DLC content and DLC release schedules... how many of these bugs are going to be waiting til Q3 or Q4 this year to resolve?

The big one is office and industry taxes completely breaking the economic simulation of the game - which they broke with the last patch and are apparently not addressing.
Did you play CS1? That’s not how it works. They’re stating that as DLC is released there will be free content and bug fixes at the release of the DLC. You are not required to pay for the DLC to get the free content or the bug fixes. That’s how it was with CS1 and that’s how it will be now.

I swear this forum is just looking for reasons to be mad.
 
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@co_martsu Could you create a trello board?
They've already said they don't have the resources to do this. :confused:

From Avanya: "I completely understand the desire for a clear overview of the issues we’re aware of and working on, but I also want to be up front with you that it isn’t realistic for us to have a list with categories like that. We simply don’t have the resources to keep it updated without taking time away from other important tasks. I would absolutely love for us to update the forum bug reports to "Fixed" when there is a fix, but doing so takes time away from logging new reports. While it would be nice to have, it’s just always going to be higher priority to make sure the reports are investigated.

That said, we can still try and make some improvements to give you a better idea of what we’re working on, even if it doesn’t give a good overview of which bugs are being worked on at the moment."
 
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There are some people in this comments section criticizing the pause in WotW posts, but guys, this is what the community wants including me. They didn't say "we are abandoning WotW completely", they said "we will come back when we have something to show". Were you really happy to read updates that weren't updating anything and just saying "we are working on it"? This is healthier.

In my case, It isn't so much the lack of seeing the weekly post about waiting, a pause until a patch is just telling me for sure there is no patch next week or probably the week after. So more waiting.

There could have been small patches to fix minor things just to show progress. Things like fixing the signature factories without workers, fixed by a modder. I get that fixing the big things can take time, land value and the core problems behind it don't come over as being a simple fix, but tossing some crumbs here and there would have been nice.
 
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Did you play CS1? That’s not how it works. They’re stating that as DLC is released there will be free content and bug fixes at the release of the DLC. You are not required to pay for the DLC to get the free content or the bug fixes. That’s how it was with CS1 and that’s how it will be now.

I swear this forum is just looking for reasons to be mad.
Although you are correct about how patches were released for CS 1, you have forgotten to mention that those patches were only released when the DLC was ready for release.
So, yes you didn't have to pay for the patch, but you had to wait for it until a new DLC did hit the shelves, so to say.

Now, obviously you can do that with a game which is more or less stable. But according to the feedback here in this forum and other places, it doesn't look like this would be the case for CS 2 currently.
Therefore I think releasing patches at the highest rate possible is of the utmost importance - regardless what might or might not be released at the same moment.
 
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"In practice, the patching process starts with the build version being locked so that no more changes are committed to it by the devs. The build goes through at least one QA round, where the listed issues are verified as either fixed or still occurring. Any new issues with the build are reported as well. Any outstanding issues are fixed and the new locked build version goes to QA. This step usually takes less than a week but can take longer depending on issues found and how quickly those are fixed. After the devs are happy with the build version it's sent to the publisher for their checks, including submissions to each platform and setting the patch ready to go live for the public. This can take a couple of days to a few weeks depending on the size and content of the patch. The release is always aimed so that it wouldn’t be right before the weekend, just to make sure that if any issues occur on the public release there is a team available to check it out. In the meantime, the devs are working on the game toward the next release whether it be fixes, improvements, or new content."

This statement has me a little concerned. Are you using the same QA that approved the game for release? I only ask because the Developers and Publisher remain the same as at release. If everybody missed all of the (obvious) incidents from the initial release, wouldn't it be best to find/use new sources of QA?
 
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Actions do speak louder than words.

Speaking as someone who purchased the $90 version of the game, I was disappointed at release and to be completely honest, I’ve been disappointed with how much time it has taken to improve performance and deliver on key items like the editor.

However, my disappointment is superseded by my hope and optimism for what I know your team wants this game to be. I know you and your team are dedicated to making this game great. I wish I had a Time Machine to fast forward 12-18 months.

You just need time and our patience. And on our end, we need to know you’re working as fast and effectively as possible and prioritizing the issues we’ve highlighted as a community (and I believe you are).

Have a great week and keep up the great work.
 
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Although you are correct about how patches were released for CS 1, you have forgotten to mention that those patches were only released when the DLC was ready for release.
So, yes you didn't have to pay for the patch, but you had to wait for it until a new DLC did hit the shelves, so to say.

Now, obviously you can do that with a game which is more or less stable. But according to the feedback here in this forum and other places, it doesn't look like this would be the case for CS 2 currently.
Therefore I think releasing patches at the highest rate possible is of the utmost importance - regardless what might or might not be released at the same moment.
No I didn’t forget. I specifically stated that patches would be released when DLC is. I know people want more frequent updates. I was just responding specifically to the guy saying you would need to BUY the DLC to get the benefits of a patch. Which is not true.
 
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Hi Everyone! Let’s talk about the patching process and upcoming patch landing soon for Cities: Skylines II.

Generally speaking, patching the game is something we usually try to combine with upcoming releases, and only work on solely bug fixing patches if we don’t have a suitable release we can wait for. Or the fix is critical to release as fast as possible - a so-called hotfix patch. You may remember the free updates associated with the DLC releases in Cities: Skylines and in the long term that is the goal with the sequel as well. It’s a good way to sneak in some cool features and improvements to all the players, beefing up the base game, and making certain features part of it while the paid content expands on those new features allowing us to continue developing the game forward. One of the first examples of this approach was After Dark where the free update added the day and night cycle to all players and the DLC itself had specific content and features for the nightlife.

So we are working to improve the quality of Cities: Skylines II, just like we did with the first game, and this includes both improvements to the base as well as creating new content as paid DLC. We worked at a fast pace after the release last October to get as many fixes in as we could. Patching the game so often does take resources in itself so we opted out for a less frequent pace to focus on bigger additions and more impactful updates in the future. Therefore the upcoming patch 1.0.19 is the last “stand-alone” bug fixing patch for now. Next time the bug fixes will be joined by the first of the modding support for the game, albeit it will not be the final version but a public beta one as mentioned last week.

We’re working on a wide variety of fixes and improvements on top of the missing modding support and platforms. We have a list of reported issues from both you, QA, and the team here at Colossal Order. These issues are sorted based on the level of their severity and the time it takes to implement them so that we can churn out as many improvements to the game as possible with the time and resources we have available.

In practice, the patching process starts with the build version being locked so that no more changes are committed to it by the devs. The build goes through at least one QA round, where the listed issues are verified as either fixed or still occurring. Any new issues with the build are reported as well. Any outstanding issues are fixed and the new locked build version goes to QA. This step usually takes less than a week but can take longer depending on issues found and how quickly those are fixed. After the devs are happy with the build version it's sent to the publisher for their checks, including submissions to each platform and setting the patch ready to go live for the public. This can take a couple of days to a few weeks depending on the size and content of the patch. The release is always aimed so that it wouldn’t be right before the weekend, just to make sure that if any issues occur on the public release there is a team available to check it out. In the meantime, the devs are working on the game toward the next release whether it be fixes, improvements, or new content.

Patch 1.0.19 will include a collection of fixes for issues we’ve discovered internally or have been reported to us by you. Thank you again for all the reports, it’s much appreciated! Full patch notes will be available when the patch is released, but here’s a little summary of the things we’ve been working on.

Improvements to the gameplay are mainly focusing on the land value:
- Land value will be affected by ground pollution. The ground pollution will first slowly reduce the land value increasing, and when the pollution gets worse it will start to decrease the land value
- Land value won't decrease to 0 even with heavily polluted land
- Land value will increase according to industrial company's profitability value
Land value is likely to receive more love in future updates, but more on that in the future.
On top of these, we’ve also improved the search for parking spaces. Anyone who is driving a car in a bigger city knows how tricky it can be!

Some balancing work went into the Incinerator Plant as building the Extra Incinerator Furnace upgrade would cause it to produce less electricity, the opposite of what the effect should be, and little tweaks were introduced to the resources to avoid traffic jams at the cargo stations. Then there was the appropriate care put into the youth as the teens and children required balancing for their spawn rates and now more teens are entering the High School to get educated. Think about the children, they say!

No patch without some focus on the performance. This time we’ve optimized shadow culling, pathfind scheduling (especially visible as faster and more stable simulation speed in very large cities), added cooldown to avoid too many queries on citizens seeking education when the city doesn’t have enough schools, and reordered some rendering related systems to reduce waiting in the main thread.

Last but not least, the patch fixes issues in the statistics panel, multiple cases of random crashes (crash to desktop when selecting "moving in" household, after modifying roads with citizen group at specific state, and when modifying road with pedestrian path connected in a specific way, to name a few) as well as added some missing text and translations.

The devs at Colossal Order are fully focusing on improving Cities: Skylines II further after patch 1.0.19 is out. Actions speak louder than words so we’ll pause these weekly posts and be back when we cover the content of the next patch/release for the game. Keep following our social channels for the latest updates and have a lovely week!

Sincerely,
Mariina
Really hope there will be a fix for that huge amount of water dropping from sky and basically making game over.
 
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Thank you for the update, but can we stop with the overexplanation of the process of patching the game? It feels like you are covering tracks, or giving excuses, and we really just want to know what you are working on to fix and update the game. Paradox has made a great game, with solid bones and some issues. I still have all the faith in the world that this will be a top tier game in a years time!
 
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Although you are correct about how patches were released for CS 1, you have forgotten to mention that those patches were only released when the DLC was ready for release.
So, yes you didn't have to pay for the patch, but you had to wait for it until a new DLC did hit the shelves, so to say.

Now, obviously you can do that with a game which is more or less stable. But according to the feedback here in this forum and other places, it doesn't look like this would be the case for CS 2 currently.
Therefore I think releasing patches at the highest rate possible is of the utmost importance - regardless what might or might not be released at the same moment.
They used to be released every 6 moths and some longer
 
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Is land value only considered for residential or for commercial and industrial as well? I could see a situation where pollution producing buildings drive down their own land value. I am curious how this has been balanced.
 
The approach is understandable. However, there a major mismatch between CO and the community.
Most players will strongly disagree that CS:2 is ready to leave the state of post release hotfixes into longterm QoL updates (mixing bugfixes and design improvements as well as new features).
At least imo, the game is not yet where you can just let it go and I guess it will also not be there at 1.19.
Anyway I am exited for the new patch, so let's see!
 
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For me, the whole thing is simple.
I stopped playing CS2 after patch 18f1 (see post from January 8, 2024 for reason). It is quite possible that future patches will fix these problems.
Until this happens, I won't be playing CS2 anymore and certainly won't be buying any DLC's.
 
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This statement has me a little concerned. Are you using the same QA that approved the game for release? I only ask because the Developers and Publisher remain the same as at release. If everybody missed all of the (obvious) incidents from the initial release, wouldn't it be best to find/use new sources of QA?

The decision to release something is not the decision of the QAs. The decision is made by business if they take the potential risk of something the QAs communicated - if business commits to take the risk there is nothing a QA would do as business is responsible in case something goes wrong.

Nobody should judge the QAs work from the outside as you don't know about the requirements (in form of stories) they checked against and also not about the bugs which were internally reported and accepted for the initial release phase.
 
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Did you play CS1? That’s not how it works. They’re stating that as DLC is released there will be free content and bug fixes at the release of the DLC. You are not required to pay for the DLC to get the free content or the bug fixes. That’s how it was with CS1 and that’s how it will be now.

I swear this forum is just looking for reasons to be mad.
2400+ hours.
DLC release schedule of every 6-8 months - did you read the second half of my statement?
Bugfixes should be standalone, in order to fix the brokenness of the game, not locked behind paid DLC content and DLC release schedules... how many of these bugs are going to be waiting til Q3 or Q4 this year to resolve?

The wording used by Mariina is vague - "alongside DLC release" or any version of that can be taken either way... and we don't know that it will be like CS1 either. TBH on CS1 I wasn't worried about bugs at all, just the content. There was nothing gamebreaking that needed to be fixed so half a year for new content was reasonable. It's not reasonable when 6 bugs are being addressed every 6 months, when there is a backlog of hundreds of known issues.
 
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