CO Word of the Week #15

[deyaz]

This is so interesting to read. CO is literally doing every step possible to make matters worse. I'm wondering if this is driven by ignorance or competence or both?
Good thing is we will have a sample case of all the things you shouldn't do as a game studio.

From lack of ownership to not committing on anything to blaming others like Paradox. Players don't care who is responsible, but the fact is that you didn't deliver. Why? Doesn't matter. Fact is you didn't and now are held responsible for it. To me the whole management of this seems to be incapable if this is their crisis management. Simply embarrassing.

 

[Torkel]

Sure, that all sounds like you're working hard and in a good direction.
But you've got to start really delivering to convince people that it's ever going to work.

 

[freddymctitties]

You managed to say so much while saying absolutely nothing. Ridiculous.

 

[-Erin-]

I'm sorry but the absolute nerve to come here and ask for more patience...

First, your excuse that Paradox are the ones who will handle timing announcements is ridiculous. We are on the Paradox forum. You apparently keep getting calls from the folks at Paradox, but I assume that works both ways, no? Why not get that information from them to pass along to us, since they're the ones setting dates? Are you not communicating the state of the community to Paradox? Is Paradox aware of the mess that's been made?

Second, you are not entitled to or deserving of anymore patience. Frankly, your communication stinks; it's evasive, non-committal, dismissive, and erratic. Most of the communication by you, in particular, comes across as attempts to hold onto a job rather than have a frank and honest conversation with players. But we're not just players, right? We're also paying customers who made purchasing decisions based on advertising which is now looking more and more like smoke and mirrors. And despite frequent and many calls for reimbursement, you've ignored us.

You get no more patience from me, and I suspect (based on responses in here) many others who have been holding on for some kind of light at the end of the tunnel. If we have to take the conversation directly to Paradox so they can be made aware of the absolute mess this has been, I suppose now's the time.

Isn't that the publishers job to handle communication, statements and infotmation? Like we haven't heard anything from paradox for mpnths as far as I am aware. Isn't that their job, isn't that why development studios get a publisher? Why are they not saying something. At this point yes, the conversatiom should be taken directly to paradox, it's literally their job and they are failing.

 

[Civ5rako]

At this point yes, the conversatiom should be taken directly to paradox, it's literally their job and they are failing.

Sorry, but no.

The failure is on CO who didn't deliver a game ready to be released although being three years overdue.
They didn't manage to fix most of the bugs even (almost) five months after release.
They didn't manage to get ParadoxMods working.
As they have stated themselves, they still aren't able to import the assets from the Regional Packs.

They are late in each and every aspect.

 

[-Erin-]

So instead of the art WOTW that was supposed to be coming as announced in the WOTW two weeks ago and Avanya in the responses ("Sadly, the post from the art team we had planned for yesterday had to be pushed until next week. Sorry for the lack of communication on here!"), we get another announcement about modding with no real new information that we didn't already know? (Modding is delayed, they're trying to push out code mods and PDXmods by the end of March, asset mods are still so hopelessly broken that 5+ months into release we still don't have an estimate besides "another 6+ months", we've heard all of this before and it's frankly concerning that there aren't any new updates on progress.)

That rebuilt communication and trust is going great.

I mean, the fact that they can't even get an art WOTW (a few paragraphs of text) ready in a week, wait, no, 2 weeks now, after promising it speaks for itself imo.

 

[FernandoLins86]

Since you don't seem to have a Product Owner taking care of priorities, here's a suggestion from me:
- Tell your costumers that modding support won't be out until august because it was in very, very early stage of implementation when CO decided the game should be launched
- Release at least one balance patch in March
- Implement DLSS2 and FSR2 so people can play at FPS higher than 20 in April
- Release a new map and another balance fix update in May
- Show us how modding support is actually going (bugs an all) in June
- Release a bug fix and performance patch in June
- Tell everyone that you will need to delay modding support to September in July
- In August, release a pre-modding patch to fix things that modding will break when it releases in September
- Take September and October to release a few modding patches.
- Release a new map in November
- December arrives, you can now release the cool buildings the community needed! Happy anniversary, C:S2, you have modding!

 

[-Erin-]

Sorry, but no.

The failure is on CO who didn't deliver a game ready to be released although being three years overdue.
They didn't manage to fix most of the bugs even (almost) five months after release.
They didn't manage to get ParadoxMods working.
As they have stated themselves, they still aren't able to import the assets from the Regional Packs.

They are late in each and every aspect.

Yep, I am painfully aware of that, just saying that it's paradox's fault too, they are in it together. If CO can't say concrete stuff, they should, they should make a statement, say something, not be silent. They still are the publisher, we use their forums. I feel like there should be some communication from them too

 

[xadONE]

Proposal for a "Wotw":
█▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ 10% Project A | Current Issues: xy
██▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ 20% Project B | Current Issues: xz
███▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ 30% Project C | Current Issues: none, in time
██████▒▒▒▒ 60% Project D | Current Issues: yx
█████████▒ 90% Problem A | Current Issues: xy
██████▒▒▒▒ 60% Problem B | Current Issues: yy
█████████▒ 90% Problem C | Current Issues: none, in time
███▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ 30% Problem D | Current Issues: none, in time

 

[cRAGGLE]

My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined.

 

[Civ5rako]

Yep, I am painfully aware of that, just saying that it's paradox's fault too, they are in it together. If CO can't say comcrete stuff, they should, they should make a statement, say something, not be silent. They still are the publisher, we use their forums. I feel like there should be some communication from them too

I understand what you are meaning and I do understand your frustration as well.

But I honestly think that Paradox cannot tell us anything right now as they would have to have reliable information from CO first.
And after all what we know and learn from various statements, they cannot rely on CO anymore.

I have no insight in what is going on at CO, but I do have my professional experiences with project work in the IT environment (admittedly just some 25 years though). Based on that, I am currently assuming that CO is literally disfunctional at this moment.

Obviously they aren't capable of fixing the reported bugs quickly. For sure - as proven by the game's current state - they weren't capable of delivering such a project even after years of delay - which carries a message in itself.
Let me explain this a bit more: sometimes it turns out that your project goals have been too ambitious. That just happens. Each and everywhere.
But when you do realize that, you do have two options: you bring in more manpower or you reduce the project scope.
Obviously they haven't done either of that in a sufficient manner or they just weren't aware in which state the project was. And that - again - after a delay of three years.
That is bad project management. There is no other word for it.

Even their WoW's are not only inconsistent, but postponed, delayed, suspended (look at the "art department's WoW" desaster).

To put it in clear words: they even don't get their art department to produce some lines.

In total that means a complete failure of CO at each and every aspect.

And now tell me what Paradox should make out of this mess? Don't get me wrong, I have no connection with nor any interest in Paradox, but currently I just see them at the receiving end of all of this mess.

 

[BoraBora]

Proposal for a "Wotw":

What you'll get:

20% your expectations
10% we're working hard
95% soon
25% we need your feedback
85% no negativity
25% we love our community
10% maybe
50% only positive criticism
10% we're not sorry
60% we may
35% we're listening

 

[elGendo87]

"When you have nothing to say, say nothing; a weak defense strengthens your opponent, and silence is less injurious than a bad reply."
- Charles Caleb Colton -​

 

[BoraBora]

Let me explain this a bit more: sometimes it turns out that your project goals have been to ambitious. That just happens. Each and everywhere.
But when you do realize that, you do have two options: you bring in more manpower or you reduce the project scope.

Obviously, but someone will probably invoke "The Mythical Man-month".

 

[Gaseous Stranger]

Proposal for a "Wotw":
█▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ 10% Project A | Current Issues: xy
██▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ 20% Project B | Current Issues: xz
███▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ 30% Project C | Current Issues: none, in time
██████▒▒▒▒ 60% Project D | Current Issues: yx
█████████▒ 90% Problem A | Current Issues: xy
██████▒▒▒▒ 60% Problem B | Current Issues: yy
█████████▒ 90% Problem C | Current Issues: none, in time
███▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ 30% Problem D | Current Issues: none, in time

They have already said they don’t track internal progress, so not sure what they would have to provide here. Trello and project management are foreign concepts to this company

 

[Vicinian]

I have to respectfully disagree.

No, it is not "obvious the developers (...) are actively working on it". On the contrary, given the lack of tangible information it is not at all "obvious".

CO did have 3 years time for development. If they couldn't manage to achieve their goals in that timeframe they shouldn't have actively advertised things the community is still waiting for.
In addition to that, they did have meanwhile almost five additional months to repair what was wrong. That they haven't achieved either.

And the expectations which have been articulated in the forums (in addition to the disappointment that those expectations have been and are far from being met) have been raised by the ad campaign of which CO was a major contributor.

So, please don't ask others to "chill a bit". If you are fine with what you have got for your money, good for you. Others are not, and rightfully so.

I mean, that’s fair enough.

My understanding is that CO is not actively making false promises anymore, but rather, making their best estimates for when things will be ready. I assume all the release date/marketing hype is a product of Paradox, being the publisher, though maybe I’m wrong.

And let’s not forget that the only reason they keep publishing these WotW was because Paradox forced them to, because Mariina wanted to stop until there was actually something concrete to comment on. So, once again, if it wasn’t for the publisher, there wouldn’t be so much drama while CO continues getting work done.

Obviously, it’s frustrating having to wait this long, but my point is that I expect them to give us the things we’re waiting for and all this negativity is not going to speed things up any further; rather, it will lower team morale.

 

[A lowborn Emperor]

Again you spent a lot of words to say nothing.

BREAKING NEWS: We're excited to tell you to keep waiting for more no news!

IN OTHER NEWS: We can't wait til next week where we tell you the same thing.

 

[Civ5rako]

And let’s not forget that the only reason they keep publishing these WotW was because Paradox forced them to, because Mariina wanted to stop until there was actually something concrete to comment on. So, once again, if it wasn’t for the publisher, there wouldn’t be so much drama while CO continues getting work done.

Obviously, it’s frustrating having to wait this long, but my point is that I expect them to give us the things we’re waiting for and all this negativity is not going to speed things up any further; rather, it will lower team morale.

I see what you are meaning.

However, I don't (at least not fully) agree with you, sorry.

Trying to stop the communication with the fanbase was such a bad idea that Paradox indeed did have to step in here. I am pretty sure they expected something more meaningful though.

About the "negativity". I don't know if any employee of CO is even looking at the forums. I even doubt that.
But even if they were... What I can tell you from my personal, professional experience is this: I did have occasions where I was the only representative of my company and project team, while our project was in a bad state. I did have occasions where literally the CEO of the customer was yelling at me in front of the whole board.
That isn't fun. Not at all.

But if the project is in a bad state, the customer's dissatisfaction is to some degree at least justified. And he is who is paying your bills. So better listen to him and do your best to satisfy him. That is part of the job - not the most pleasureful one, but you have to deal with it.

So, no, I don't feel pity for the CO team. Not at all.
The mess all of us are confronted with is their result. Nobody did ask for too many dogs or zombie cims with teeth. Nobody asked for an economic "simulation" which effectively is meaningless as the households as final customers don't care for the different goods, but only for anonymous "ressources".
CO as a company, as a whole has made the decision to have these things in the game. So, as an employee of CO you currently just have to live with the fact that your decisions and what you delivered doesn't satisfy the customer.
Take it like a man, learn from it and improve.

Or go out of business.
That are the two options you are having.

 

[Myers1006]

Let’s discuss the status of the modding support today. The Editor has been in the works and we have shared versions of it with a closed group of a few selected modders for feedback. We are very fortunate to have this dedicated group of people eager to try experimental solutions and voice their opinions on them. Their feedback helps us understand how tools are used and how we can improve them. We have been surprised by the modders so many times in Cities in Motion and Cities: Skylines that we have stopped trying to guess what you might want to do or achieve. It’s much more helpful for us to just ask directly how to support those efforts instead.

Collaboration with the closed group has been going on behind the scenes for months now. Together, we have put a lot of effort towards the beta version of the modding tools, and we really can’t wait to share them with you! We believe modding is a pivotal part of the experience with a Cities: Skylines game and we want to encourage everyone to be as creative as possible.

As we’re preparing for the public release with support for Code Modding and the Map Editor, Paradox is running a broader Early Access for modders and creators chosen from the sign-up earlier this year. This gives creators the early opportunity to give the team direct feedback on using Paradox Mods, the new Modding Toolchain, and the Map Editor. We’re looking forward to seeing their feedback, and having the first Code Mods, Maps, and Savegames uploaded to the platform and ready for you on its release! This is all to support the quest of making sure we have a robust start when the tools are released, and this is a good opportunity to test Paradox Mods as well. We’ll be sharing more information on each part: Paradox Mods, Code Modding, and Map Editing later on so you’ll know what to expect.

I would like to emphasize again that there is still a lot of work still to be done: Asset editing is not in a shape or form to be used as-is. We’ll still need more time to make importing the assets work. The Region Packs teased at the end of last year are bundles of assets of varying sizes and content made by some of your favorite creators from the community. These assets rely on us finalizing the asset editor to a point where we are happy that the import pipeline and saving will be in a future-proof state. This is an ongoing effort, alongside improving the Code Modding and Map Editing based on the feedback we’ll receive from the Early Access and eventually from all of you. We have dedicated devs working on the modding support, eager to tackle bugs and implement improvements, so we’ll keep patching the tools throughout the public Beta phase until we have Modding 1.0 available. Naturally, the work will continue even past that as we receive more feedback and suggestions from you.

The creators and modders of Cities: Skylines brought so much cool and innovative content to the game, and we can’t wait to see what you come up with for Cities: Skylines II. There are already some exciting mods and beautiful maps out there (yes, we see you!) and it will be very exciting to see what you create with the added support!

Sincerely,
Mariina

I finally came back to try this game since modding might be released soon, unfortunately it just constantly crashes to desktop. How about we work on getting the game stable?

 

[Myers1006]

is your vanilla game crashing constantly or have you used un-supported mods or the dev tools to place some extra stuff in your city?

Mine is completely vanilla, works for about 10-30 minutes and then crashes. Only coincidence I have noticed is a couple of times it happened while relocating a building, other times seem to be random.