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CO Word of the Week #3

Last week I promised to give you an update on where we are with the modding of Cities: Skylines II. The Editor is in the works and we shared an updated version of it with the closed Modding Beta group for a feedback round just last Friday. The Editor currently includes only maps and support for code modding and we’re looking forward to getting those ready for an initial release. I’m calling it an initial release as we will be adding to the modding tools throughout the game's lifetime, just like we did with Cities: Skylines.

We do not have the asset import feature available yet, so the creators are currently unable to import their own assets into the game. After we have the import feature in place we’ll be running it through the Modding Beta group. When the asset part of the Editor is ready, we’ll have the Paradox Mods nicely populated with the Region pack assets that the asset creators have been working on. The assets are looking amazing, and I’m sure you’ll have a lot of fun choosing the ones most fitting to your cities! If you haven’t already, check out the Region Pack teaser here:


Our goal is to release the Editor as soon as possible, and we will keep you updated on the progress. We expect it will take a couple of months to get the Editor in a shape where we can release it, but we don’t have a concrete timeline yet as we don’t want to make promises we can’t keep. Once the Editor is out we will continue to work on it with your feedback and suggestions to help us prioritize the most wanted features and improvements. We’re very much looking forward to seeing your creations and mods too!

As an update on console, the game will have all the intended Editor features in place when the console versions are released, so you’ll be able to catch up to the PC players in no time. The Editor on console will be on par with the PC version in all but two features: code modding and asset importing as these are not possible within the console restrictions. However, you will be able to download user-created assets from Paradox Mods and create custom maps! The performance improvements we are currently working on also benefit the console version, and we’re actively working on the console versions so they will be ready for you in the first half of 2024.

In the last three weeks, we’ve had a very quick pace with the patches. There is one more of those landing soon, but after that, we’ll be focusing on bigger fixes that take longer to work on. The team is now focusing on LODs and improving GPU performances, and while geometric LODs are largely automated, there are a ton of tweaks and adjustments required. We are expecting a relevant performance boost with these asset fixes. The workload is significant and unfortunately, there is no silver bullet to improve the performance at once, instead, it requires several tasks completed before we are happy with it. This results in less frequent updates so we won’t have weekly patches going forward. Please check the future Word of the Weeks for more information, as I plan to keep writing one every week until further notice.

Before I go, here’s a link to last week’s patch notes if you want to check what it brought! Thanks to everyone who reported an issue and gave feedback. Your effort is most appreciated!

Sincerely,
Mariina
 
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@co_martsu

EDIT: On reflection... how about an amnesty? For everyone who's over the 2 hour Steam refund but genuinely feels aggrieved at the smoke and mirrors in the run up to release, why not just authorise refunds - I mean, do you really want a bunch of disaffected players hanging around moaning? Or let me guess, "the refund system is out of our hands, sorry we just get to keep your money, thanks bye".
I'm down for that. I'm back to CS 1 now and haven't played CS 2 in a week.

A refund should definitely be on the table.
 
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Slowing down on bug fixes? Months before the editor is ready?! What are you people doing over there?!

Why was this game released unfinished?

Where is the apology?
 
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@co_martsu How about an apology at the very least? Stop with the rhetoric. This community is too intelligent for such actions and baseless verbiage, not to mention the utter lack of clarity.

Please read the comments that resulted in your inadequate post and apologize to the community. Can you at least admit the release was a total cluster? It literally seems like every simulation function that you hyperbolized pre-release was broken from the very start (e.g., garbage, education, export). You had to have known this, yet seemingly thank the community (us players) for bringing a bug to your attention. Isn't that your job. We paid money to purchase your game but we are now working for you to test the simulation and performance.

I think the entire community who has shared issues will at least be slightly assuaged if you own up to you mistakes, admit them transparently, and apologize to the community.
I get what you're saying but would anyone take that serious? Everyone at CO and PD had to know the game wasn't ready and they decided to release anyway. Nothing she can say could make this right - actions speak louder than words, you know. I have no idea what she could come up with that was even believable as an apology.
And some nonpology like "We know the game isn't up to our standards, sorry you're disappointed, we will continue to improve bla bla..." would probably do more harm than good.
It sucks but at this point fixing stuff as quickly as possible is the only thing they can do.
 
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I get what you're saying but would anyone take that serious? Everyone at CO and PD had to know the game wasn't ready and they decided to release anyway. Nothing she can say could make this right - actions speak louder than words, you know. I have no idea what she could come up with that was even believable as an apology.
And some nonpology like "We know the game isn't up to our standards, sorry you're disappointed, we will continue to improve bla bla..." would probably do more harm than good.
It sucks but at this point fixing stuff as quickly as possible is the only thing they can do.
They could refund those of us who feel we've been mis-sold - as a goodwill gesture.
 
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I'm not sure I quite understand your last question. Do you mean if there will be a system to control which zoned buildings appear, similar to how the original Cities: Skylines had district styles? Or do you have something else in mind?

I'm just gonna chime in as it's something that's been bothering me in my current city. I'm guessing @Lynx92 mean is more control over what buildings spawn in Industrial/Commercial areas.

Assuming someone wants to pay attention to this area of the game and all the info in the production panel...trying to get a specific type of a building is currently a pain. Even after lowering taxes to -10% and having deficit of a product said factory makes...I have to manually delete buildings countless times to get what my city actually needs which feels more like some sort of workaround rather than intended gameplay.
 
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Now it's MONTHS????

We're using the game in its incomplete state as it is, so if the editor is incomplete as well then that's just par for the course.

Release it and let us get access to some more maps.
 
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As an update on console, the game will have all the intended Editor features in place when the console versions are released, so you’ll be able to catch up to the PC players in no time. The Editor on console will be on par with the PC version in all but two features: code modding and asset importing as these are not possible within the console restrictions. However, you will be able to download user-created assets from Paradox Mods and create custom maps! The performance improvements we are currently working on also benefit the console version, and we’re actively working on the console versions so they will be ready for you in the first half of 2024.
Very much appreciate the update including about console as I’d be on PS5!! Please keep these coming especially with any console updates!!
 
Not gonna lie, I'm pretty disappointed. I asked several times when you expected the asset editor to be released and all I got was 'shortly after release' and Maddie was talking about 'days after release' in a livestream, so I took the plunge and pre-ordered the game. I don't really play the game, all I'm interested in is the asset editor so hearing it will now be a 'couple of months' feels like a slap in the face.

I asked before but I'm gonna try again: Is it possible to join the asset editor beta? I'm mainly interested in building and vehicle assets, I made several for CS1 as well in the early days.
I loved a lot of your assets for CS1 and hope they make it to CS2.

I had Modern Low-rise communities serviced by Olli busses, your FD and PD buildings, Pheonix High School, Klieke Elementary, and the hospital.

I had another place where I had The Wave buildings on an oceanside cliff, and many of your assets were used in multiple cities over the years.

THANKS for your work and I hope they let you in this beta.

WAKE UP CO!!!!!! Don't leave this guy by the wayside.
 
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There are likely to be some limits on console when it comes to downloading assets. For example, assets that rely on code mods will not work correctly and likely won't be available on console.
With all these limitations placed on mods being placed on consoles, could you share what was the decision making process behind forcing everyone to use Paradox Mods? If console players can’t have code mods, or assets related to code mods, what is the point of forcing PC players and everyone to use Paradox Mods and hampering the game from the start? The lack of mods has been a killer from the start.
 
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With all these limitations placed on mods being placed on consoles, could you share what was the decision making process behind forcing everyone to use Paradox Mods? If console players can’t have code mods, or assets related to code mods, what is the point of forcing PC players and everyone to use Paradox Mods and hampering the game from the start? The lack of mods has been a killer from the start.
Yeah that's been bothering me since the whole "no Steam workshop" thing was announced close to release - the consoles only get asset mods (in certain restricted circumstances) yet PC gamers could be taking advantage of all of the different sorts of mods right now. It just doesn't make any sense from a "keep the punters happy" standpoint unless CO and PDX absolutely want a closed eco-system that they can control.

I think all this points to the fact that they're pinning their hopes on a big console hit here - get the PC players to beta test the game ("honestly guys, we think it's ready for prime time until, erm, well maybe it isn't but we're working on it, honest") to get it kicked into some sort of decent shape for the console certification process sometime next year (I'm not a gambling man but I'll tell you now the console release is going to slip, no question).

At this point, a refund to any PC player who feels misled is the absolute minimum they could do.
 
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Yeah that's been bothering me since the whole "no Steam workshop" thing was announced close to release - the consoles only get asset mods (in certain restricted circumstances) yet PC gamers could be taking advantage of all of the different sorts of mods right now. It just doesn't make any sense from a "keep the punters happy" standpoint unless CO and PDX absolutely want a closed eco-system that they can control.

I think all this points to the fact that they're pinning their hopes on a big console hit here - get the PC players to beta test the game ("honestly guys, we think it's ready for prime time until, erm, well maybe it isn't but we're working on it, honest") to get it kicked into some sort of decent shape for the console certification process sometime next year (I'm not a gambling man but I'll tell you now the console release is going to slip, no question).

At this point, a refund to any PC player who feels misled is the absolute minimum they could do.

The fact that there are already a couple of small mods out there proves that they can't close it off and that they shouldn't have tried. They should have used the shop and still could have had their own place as well.
 
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Yeah that's been bothering me since the whole "no Steam workshop" thing was announced close to release - the consoles only get asset mods (in certain restricted circumstances) yet PC gamers could be taking advantage of all of the different sorts of mods right now. It just doesn't make any sense from a "keep the punters happy" standpoint unless CO and PDX absolutely want a closed eco-system that they can control.

I think all this points to the fact that they're pinning their hopes on a big console hit here - get the PC players to beta test the game ("honestly guys, we think it's ready for prime time until, erm, well maybe it isn't but we're working on it, honest") to get it kicked into some sort of decent shape for the console certification process sometime next year (I'm not a gambling man but I'll tell you now the console release is going to slip, no question).

At this point, a refund to any PC player who feels misled is the absolute minimum they could do.
Yeah I agree. With all these limitations, console players won’t even get to enjoy the majority of what CS1 mods had anyway, with TM: PE etc all being top hitters not being able to be used in CS2. It’s a mind boggling decision to hamper the community just for harmony which hasn’t existed and will have massive inequality from the get go anyway.

I would love to have a refund, but there won’t be that’s for certain. The game has sold for millions of dollars and they have it. It’s highly unlikely with this broken mess of a game they will issue refunds, coupled with people still defending CO as if this is acceptable.
 
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What a terrible mess. I can't get my head around it why you would release the game in such a terrible inexcusable state. Absolutely horrible performance and optimization, mediocre graphics, not supporting modern technologies like DLSS, light on actual content, and completely incapable to get this in the right state in a reasonable amount of time.

I think it's gonna take you 12 to 18 months to get the game in a somewhat decent state. And I have great doubts if you are even able to fix the fundamental issues. I remember reading somewhere that for example DLSS was not supported, because it relies on TAA, and the game uses technology incompatible with TAA (hence why we have terrible aliasing). That was obviously something you've known for years and which should have been tackled WAY back. But you didn't, and it's not gonna be easy now.

I have lost all confidence in CO, Paradox (I don't know which of these two is most responsible...) and CS as a franchise.
 
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What a terrible mess. I can't get my head around it why you would release the game in such a terrible inexcusable state. Absolutely horrible performance and optimization, mediocre graphics, not supporting modern technologies like DLSS, light on actual content, and completely incapable to get this in the right state in a reasonable amount of time.

I think it's gonna take you 12 to 18 months to get the game in a somewhat decent state. And I have great doubts if you are even able to fix the fundamental issues. I remember reading somewhere that for example DLSS was not supported, because it relies on TAA, and the game uses technology incompatible with TAA (hence why we have terrible aliasing). That was obviously something you've known for years and which should have been tackled WAY back. But you didn't, and it's not gonna be easy now.

I have lost all confidence in CO, Paradox (I don't know which of these two is most responsible...) and CS as a franchise.
Paradox has a track record of pushing out half-baked games. Victoria 3 is only close to “full-release” now at 1.5 after a whole year.

I think it’s important to remember this debacle is created by business greed and deception, not the competence of the developer staff who must be overworked, stressed and disappointed. They have been given a herculean task under an impossible schedule and requirements. They are not to blame. CO and PDX are.
 
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I read every post under this WOW. And I'm starting to be afraid. Not because of the game, more about the Community. I Also preordered the Ultimate Edition. I Also spent 90€ for this all. And yes, I'm also sad and annoyed about the state of the game. ...

BUT ... I don't think the harsh comments are fair. Of Course its a uncomfortable situation. Not only for us, also for CO and the DEVS.

TBH from day 1 there are people complaining. Over and over again with the same complainments. And in a super rude way. Some names I even ignore in this forum in the meanwhile bc I think they are trolls. Never heard anything constructive from them. And every try to talk with them doesn't make them accept the reality and looking forward to make it better. Its almost attacking.

What should CO do right now? They can't make a magical trick to fix the mistakes over night. The probably wrong decisions can't be reset. I'm sure some of them would like to have a Delorean to go "Back to the Post Release".

What do you expect? That they give money back? Even with the offer from CO I wouldn't want it back, bc it could mean that C:S2 don't get any support anymore. But the fundament is to good and the team behind it is very passionate. Instead of attacking CO and to assume bad motives, it makes more sense to keep calm, report bugs and let the DEVS fix those problems.

Even if the situation is now very disapointing, it's nothing what can't be fixed in the next month. And I'm pretty sure CO is already thinking how to compansate this legitimate frustration. But the way how some people express there frustration doesn't help. Not the community and also not CO. It even doesn't help themselve.

TBH If I would be a DEV I would loose the joy to fix stuff for such unforgiving players. Even if I know there are lot witch still have a lot of fun with this game, even in the current state.

Sorry needed to be said. Now the hater can hate me and complain about me. less focus on CO for a moment :p

The blame for this doesn't belong to the actual developers. Nor the game designers, graphics artists and all those people. And I do feel sorry for them because I imagine that the majority didn't want this game released like this, and yes, it must be frustrating to work in a situation like that. The responsibility is with the management. Which part of the management I don't know, and I don't know how much of it is Paradox and/or how much of it is CO, but together they are responsible.

You can't just be "supportive" in a situation like this. They SHOULD be called out now. They haven't even made a clear apology, and yes, they should offer a refund option. They made willful decisions to release the game in this state, and take people's money, while being completely aware of the sorry state the game was in.
 
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