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CO Word of the Week #3

Last week I promised to give you an update on where we are with the modding of Cities: Skylines II. The Editor is in the works and we shared an updated version of it with the closed Modding Beta group for a feedback round just last Friday. The Editor currently includes only maps and support for code modding and we’re looking forward to getting those ready for an initial release. I’m calling it an initial release as we will be adding to the modding tools throughout the game's lifetime, just like we did with Cities: Skylines.

We do not have the asset import feature available yet, so the creators are currently unable to import their own assets into the game. After we have the import feature in place we’ll be running it through the Modding Beta group. When the asset part of the Editor is ready, we’ll have the Paradox Mods nicely populated with the Region pack assets that the asset creators have been working on. The assets are looking amazing, and I’m sure you’ll have a lot of fun choosing the ones most fitting to your cities! If you haven’t already, check out the Region Pack teaser here:


Our goal is to release the Editor as soon as possible, and we will keep you updated on the progress. We expect it will take a couple of months to get the Editor in a shape where we can release it, but we don’t have a concrete timeline yet as we don’t want to make promises we can’t keep. Once the Editor is out we will continue to work on it with your feedback and suggestions to help us prioritize the most wanted features and improvements. We’re very much looking forward to seeing your creations and mods too!

As an update on console, the game will have all the intended Editor features in place when the console versions are released, so you’ll be able to catch up to the PC players in no time. The Editor on console will be on par with the PC version in all but two features: code modding and asset importing as these are not possible within the console restrictions. However, you will be able to download user-created assets from Paradox Mods and create custom maps! The performance improvements we are currently working on also benefit the console version, and we’re actively working on the console versions so they will be ready for you in the first half of 2024.

In the last three weeks, we’ve had a very quick pace with the patches. There is one more of those landing soon, but after that, we’ll be focusing on bigger fixes that take longer to work on. The team is now focusing on LODs and improving GPU performances, and while geometric LODs are largely automated, there are a ton of tweaks and adjustments required. We are expecting a relevant performance boost with these asset fixes. The workload is significant and unfortunately, there is no silver bullet to improve the performance at once, instead, it requires several tasks completed before we are happy with it. This results in less frequent updates so we won’t have weekly patches going forward. Please check the future Word of the Weeks for more information, as I plan to keep writing one every week until further notice.

Before I go, here’s a link to last week’s patch notes if you want to check what it brought! Thanks to everyone who reported an issue and gave feedback. Your effort is most appreciated!

Sincerely,
Mariina
 
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Been loving all the improvements made on the GPU side. We've seen on the forums how players with performant rigs become CPU bottlenecked at earlier than expected population levels. This means very slow simulations speeds and constant slowdown and speedups. Will we be seeing any CPU optimizations in one of the bigger patches?
 
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So the console players can use the Paradox Mods for maps & assets made by other players!!! Few Questions:
1. What's asset importing and why console can't get it.
2. Are mods like TMPE for CS1 a type of code modding which can't come to console?
3. Can console players upload their own maps & assets in Paradox Mods??
 
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So the console players can use the Paradox Mods for maps & assets made by other players!!! Few Questions:
1. What's asset importing and why console can't get it.
2. Are mods like TMPE for CS1 a type of code modding which can't come to console?
3. Can console players upload their own maps & assets in Paradox Mods??
  1. Asset importing is turning a textured 3D model into a game object that actually interacts with the game mechanics. Consoles can’t do 3D modelling so there’s no point in having that part of the editor in the console version.
  2. Yes.
 
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The game looks good. The road tools are good. But .. that's kinda it. It's rough around the edges, bugs everywhere, the simulation doesn't feel as deep as promised (which propably is because most things are not or only superficial explained). The performance is one problem, but not the biggest.
How is it possible that the game took so many steps back to Cities Skylines one?
Traffic with TMPE was way better than the traffic is now in the game. We don't need all new fancy shmancy overhauled game AI .. if it doesn't work.
Your statement is missing the most important stuff: bug fixes. Make the game work!

I am sorry to say this, since I was a big advocate for CO since Cities in Motion 1, but here I really question the management skills.
Game is unfinished, has bad performance, is ridden with bugs. The promised features get delayed and delayed. Now you hit the people that are the most important for your success at the head - modders. Again! (Remember Cities in Motion 2?)

Cities in Motion 1 - solid game, with mods it got great, long support from the community.
Cities in Motion 2 - mediocre game design, mods not possible, fast death
Cities Skylines 1 - solid game, with mods it got great, long support from the community.
Cities Skylines 2 - ... history repeats.

Edit:
I planned to buy myself a new computer for christmas. I planned to spend around 2500 Euro for that, just so I can play CS2 in the future, without performance problems, with lots of mods and assets. Now I propably will save my money, let's see how the game looks next year this time.
 
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[...], and we're investigating several others as we're working our way through the issues that have been brought to our attention.
Great! And why is it that none of these issues have been addressed in the "word of the week"? Probably because CO will prioritize this after performance issues, so we'll see bug fixes in weeks or months, right? It’s the perception that passes to us
 
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We expect it will take a couple of months to get the Editor in a shape where we can release it, but we don’t have a concrete timeline yet as we don’t want to make promises we can’t keep.
Perhaps this should have been shared earlier before so many refund windows closed?
 
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I think its important to mention that pathfinding performance MUST be improved... at its current state is hard to swallow.

I know my cpu doesn't have a lot of cores (ryzen 5 3600), but if traffic manager PE can make the AI of the first game have parking Ai and advanced lane picking in my CPU while still keeping great performance at a 200k+ population, so should C:S2.

My city is running now at 0.5x simulation performance and cars are stopping everytime they have to recalculate their path... (TMPE also had traffic stopping to recalculate in the first years, but that was completely gone now)

TMPE had the excuse of running in a game that heavily favors single core performance for pathfiding, C:S2 single core pathfinding must be at least on par with C:S1, but it isn't.

(Oh, also the setting to prioritize simulation performance in the settings rather than FPS isn't making any visible difference.)
 
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This is unfortunate.

Right now, I'm just playing around unseriously and also exploring the road tools until I can play on my own map.

I... I don't think that's going to hold my attention for two months.
 
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With the popularity of modding assets in CS, why did CO not consider Day 1 Mod Support for CS:2 a launch requirement. Or highly prioritized? Not having mods for _months_ after launch, considering how great and impact mods are in the predecessor, is a pretty significant degradation of experience.

Along with the promise that console will have mods at launch, and passable performance, really makes it seems like CO doesn't value PC players and shipped us an early access game for the revenue gains.
 
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Hello Mariina

At the moment it seems like the map editor can only allow for existing climates chosen from presets.

Will we be able to create our custom climate and weather patterns in the future?
Cities 1 kinda allowed a similar thing within its limitations
The Editor that some people have been able to access in the live version of the game is an early version lacking features and functionality. It is not ready for use and I do not recommend using it as we cannot guarantee maps created with it will work correctly. As previously mentioned, our goal with the Editor is to provide you will all the same options that we have when creating content for the game, which also includes setting up custom climates and weather for maps.

some questions:
- will there still be pre-order bonuses on consoles?
- will there be a limit on the assets downloadable via paradox mods on console?
- in the long term, is this how the industrial system will evolve, particularly with regard to the fact that assets pop up on their own and without any real coherence?
We're looking into the options for the pre-order content so players on console also have an opportunity to receive it, however, at this time we don't have any information about what that will look like. We'll share more about this in the future.

There are likely to be some limits on console when it comes to downloading assets. For example, assets that rely on code mods will not work correctly and likely won't be available on console.

I'm not sure I quite understand your last question. Do you mean if there will be a system to control which zoned buildings appear, similar to how the original Cities: Skylines had district styles? Or do you have something else in mind?

How are Free Region packs tied to the Editor? So we won't be getting those for at least another two months? Why tease us with the trailer saying "coming soon" 3 months prior then? Damage control?

I get that things are getting delayed because of all the fixes and issues but I don't think it needs to be said that this Editor should've been part of the initial release.
Custom assets need to be imported into the game and set up in the Editor.

Thanks for the update. I love the game so far but I'm really disappointed that it will be months until we finally get an editor. And even after waiting months you are telling me that the editor won't feature asset creation? One month ago the CO’s community manager announced that mods will be available days after release, what happened to that?
I'm quite sure I haven't shared a schedule as we did not have one at release, so I'm guessing this might have been a community manager from the Cities: Skylines team (There's only me on the CO side of things, but I know it's hard to keep track of us community managers ;) ). I'm sorry for the confusion, I can absolutely understand it's frustrating to hear we are looking at months when you had the impression it would be days after release. I'll look into how we can improve communication so all us community managers are on the same page and you aren't given incorrect information in the future.

Not gonna lie, I'm pretty disappointed. I asked several times when you expected the asset editor to be released and all I got was 'shortly after release' and Maddie was talking about 'days after release' in a livestream, so I took the plunge and pre-ordered the game. I don't really play the game, all I'm interested in is the asset editor so hearing it will now be a 'couple of months' feels like a slap in the face.

I asked before but I'm gonna try again: Is it possible to join the asset editor beta? I'm mainly interested in building and vehicle assets, I made several for CS1 as well in the early days.
My apologies for not getting back to you and any other creators who are interested in joining the beta. We're currently not looking to invite more people, but you're always welcome to send me a private message with a bit about yourself, your prior experience modding and a link to any content you have created for our games. I'm probably not able to get back to everyone right away, but messages are easier to find again in the future.
 
Great! And why is it that none of these issues have been addressed in the "word of the week"? Probably because CO will prioritize this after performance issues, so we'll see bug fixes in weeks or months, right? It’s the perception that passes to us
This. Why is it none of this has been addressed in a statement prior release? That's what really bugs me. They warned about how bad performance was but didn't care to mention that the whole thing just wasn't ready. It'll take them at least another 8 to 12 months just to get CS2 to the point where it should have been if they wanna sell it as a finished product.

I think the patches slowing down already is not a good sign because what it means is that for many issues we're talking about serious problems with no quick fixes.
 
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The game looks good. The road tools are good. But .. that's kinda it. It's rough around the edges, bugs everywhere, the simulation doesn't feel as deep as promised (which propably is because most things are not or only superficial explained). The performance is one problem, but not the biggest.
How is it possible that the game took so many steps back to Cities Skylines one?
Traffic with TMPE was way better than the traffic is now in the game. We don't need all new fancy shmancy overhauled game AI .. if it doesn't work.
Your statement is missing the most important stuff: bug fixes. Make the game work!

I am sorry to say this, since I was a big advocate for CO since Cities in Motion 1, but here I really question the management skills.
Game is unfinished, has bad performance, is ridden with bugs. The promised features get delayed and delayed. Now you hit the people that are the most important for your success at the head - modders. Again! (Remember Cities in Motion 2?)

Cities in Motion 1 - solid game, with mods it got great, long support from the community.
Cities in Motion 2 - mediocre game design, mods not possible, fast death
Cities Skylines 1 - solid game, with mods it got great, long support from the community.
Cities Skylines 2 - ... history repeats.

Edit:
I planned to buy myself a new computer for christmas. I planned to spend around 2500 Euro for that, just so I can play CS2 in the future, without performance problems, with lots of mods and assets. Now I propably will save my money, let's see how the game looks next year this time.

Cities 2, is much better than Motion2. It has stuff to fix, but the overall gameplay features are great. Mods will be supported as well. It's not as if they are not. They are going to be supported and hopefully even more so than in Cities 1.
 
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@co_martsu

I appreciate you clear and honest words... But I need to say that this is disappointing.

I can deal with performance issues and bugs as long as I can feel a constantly progress. That's why I think weekly fixes are super important. Even if they are just small and not addressing big issues or making big steps. The announcement about the slowdown is in the current state truly a little bit worrying.

Also the delayed possibility of modding AND the announcement that the region pack comes with the editor....

The biggest problem is the diversity in the game. Everything looks the same, especially since there are keymechanics from CS1 are not in the game (like 1 park like in park DLC per example).

It would be fine for me, if the Region Pack is something like a little snack between the waiting time. But to announce them as already available mods when the editor is finished is .... I don't know, it has a bad taste. (At least that's how I understood it)

First time I'm disappointed. But I still believe in the potential of the game and I'm sure you'll make things better.

Just hope things go faster as it sounds now to create more exciting cities. And I hope for a more positive sounding WOW next Monday.
 
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Once again, thank you for the lovely transparency! I do hope to get more assets soon, and am excited!

Unfortunately, and I might be missing something, but I don't see how this is transparency. This statement about how the Editor (and consequently) Paradox Mods are MONTHS away from just the initial release could have been easily made BEFORE or even at release. Instead, they have withheld this information until now when many, me included, have bought and played the game, waiting for those features to address bugs, imbalances and variety under the illusion that they will be available shortly after launch. It is not that they expected major progress over the last three weeks either; they have said they are mainly working on performance issues, which they had known well before launch.

If they really want to be transparent about this, they need to stop making such sly statements, and actually listen and respond more to the community here and on discord AND disclose the lists of bugs and improvements they are working on (instead of radio silent until patch note).
 
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If the CO team can't keep up with the demand, why don't they hire more people? This will likely become yet another question that the CO chooses to overlook, simply because it isn't a post expressing gratitude for their hard work.
If they decided to hire more people now, it would only delay upcoming patches. Remember that all new hires have to be onboarded and brought up to speed, and to do that someone who is already there needs to be diverted from what they are currently doing to said training of those new hires.

So while it might help in the long term, in the short term it would actually be detrimental to their release cadence.
 
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But perhaps you could hire more skilled people to handle the unity engine. In the current state of the game there appear to be some fundamental misapplications in the graphics area.
 
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