• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

CO Word of the Week #4

In the last Word of the Week, I touched upon the frequency of the expected fixes for Cities: Skylines II. For the last few weeks, we’ve been focusing on performance improvements and bug fixes at a rapid pace. As we’re continuing to work on the improvements we’ll adjust the pace of the updates slightly so we won’t see a new patch every week going forward but will have a bit longer cadence between them. We have made it through the quicker fixes and we’re now digging into the ones that require a bit more work. The next patch is not yet scheduled as it has performance improvements pending that we absolutely want to include in it.

The priorities for the team at Colossal Order are the following:

1. Performance improvements
Specifically, we are working on the level of detail models for the assets. This includes both adding missing LODs and improving the existing ones to improve the GPU performance. It might take more than one patch to address all of them, but we’ll roll out the first fixes as soon as possible. Following the asset and LOD fixes, we’ll work on improvements to CPU performance. This means focusing on the CPU stutters and simulation performance to improve simulation speed and smooth experience while scaling up the size of your cities.​
2. Bug fixing
We continue to go through your bug reports and have logged around 100 reproducible issues that have been moved to the team to look into. There are another 100 reports that we are still investigating that require more information and a bunch of duplicates, some of which add valuable information so we’ll go through all of them. We are also checking suggestions for improvement or new features, but these requests are currently at a lower priority.​
While the forum is the best place to report issues, our community team also keeps an eye on discussions outside of the forum so we can gather relevant information for the development team. Fixing gameplay bugs and issues is a high priority for us, and these can be anything from bigger overhauls of systems that are not functioning as intended to the smallest of annoyances.​
3. Editor/Modding support
The modding Beta group is testing the map editor and we’ll improve it based on their feedback before releasing it. Especially the placement of water on the map is under review since it’s currently too complicated. The UI will also receive a bit more love as it’s really difficult to find the available assets that can be placed on the map. I’ll keep you updated on the progress of the Editor and code modding and their release schedule, but the performance and bugs need to be sorted out first.​


Where we are right now
Talking about sorting, let’s talk about the Mail Service. This is a good example of a bigger overhaul caused by a few critical bugs resulting in the entire system behaving undesirably. We identified that the mail sent to the residents of the city, whether it be a citizen, a company, or a city service, is not delivered as it should. One culprit is the Post Sorting Facility as the mail is sorted in an erratic way, which makes me wonder what they are actually doing there if it’s not to sort the mail. The other issue is the Post Office vans that only seem to be collecting the mail instead of ever delivering it. Let’s see if we can get the light-fingered mail personnel under control! All jokes aside, now that these bugs have been identified and are being fixed we’ll have to test the entire system to see if it requires a rebalance. Therefore fixing the bugs takes time as we need possibly multiple QA rounds to make sure it’s working as it is supposed to.

Another issue we’re investigating on the gameplay side is the pathfinding regarding the Citizens’ ability to reserve housing even with no connection to the city. It kind of makes sense that one makes a rental agreement before moving in, so personally I wasn’t too worried about the fact that a house is assigned to a citizen when it’s being built. However, the problem appears with the companies as the citizen that has a rental agreement may also accept a job even if they have never made it to the city to begin with. So a Citizen stuck at the border of the city with no access to their house or their workplace is basically reserving those until the Citizen is deemed a lost cause and deleted from existence. We’ll look to improve this behaviour in a way that is more understandable and there’s a clear cut between the citizens that have made it to the city and those that have not.

We’re also looking at reports about export and distribution of goods in the city. Like mail, these require a deep dive to determine what is working as it should and what is not. I don’t have any details to share yet as we’re still digging into the different reports, but I wanted to let you know we haven’t missed the concerns you have raised. More on those next time!

Once the PC version is where we want it to be, we will be focusing on the console release and DLC content. We are committed to bringing the marketed DLC content to you, but it will not be landing in the originally promoted schedule. The first Asset Pack, Beach Properties, has been worked on by our artists’ and our outsourcing partner, but we’ll only implement them after the asset fix and performance work are completed to our satisfaction. I apologize for the delay, but we must not rush new content out before the base is ready for it. This also stands for the Content Creator Packs and Radio stations. Stay tuned for more information on these later!

Last Thursday we released the last weekly hotfix and it included a bunch of fixes, all of which can be found in the patch notes, but I want to highlight a few of them. The patch included a fix for the stuck “Garbage Piling Up” notifications, which didn’t clear properly after the previous fixes to the garbage collection. Now citizens will finally recognize that their bins are empty. We also took another step towards solving the issue where texture resolution drops significantly so you should see it pop up less often, though the work is still ongoing as some cases still remain. Lastly, but definitely not least, we resolved an issue that caused saves to load to a black screen when playing offline, bringing up some bad memories for some of our players. Like its predecessor, Cities: Skylines II can be played offline, so thank you for bringing this issue to light.

That’s it for this week, I’ll keep you posted!

Sincerely,
Mariina
 
  • 80Like
  • 16Love
  • 13
  • 5Haha
  • 5
  • 5
Reactions:
Quick thought experiment for you - if you were CO, what would you do if you were Mariina right now?
That’s literally what I’m asking people to do. Start providing actionable criticism rather than just complaining.

I personally don’t have a problem with where we are, and where we’re going. The game has worked alright for me since launch, I’ve had a lot of fun hours playing it. However, I recognize that people had different experiences, and some people are not happy. That’s fine, but “it shouldn’t have launched” isn’t meaningful at this point.

You sort of can - you can refund the two or three gamers who pre-ordered the game and aren't happy with the reality of the released game against the pre-release marketing, leaving the 99.999% of gamers who are happily playing the game to continue enjoying it as is their right while I and the other two unsatisfied consumers can go back to CS1.

That is an actionable request.
 
  • 2Like
Reactions:
That’s literally what I’m asking people to do. Start providing actionable criticism rather than just complaining.

I personally don’t have a problem with where we are, and where we’re going. The game has worked alright for me since launch, I’ve had a lot of fun hours playing it. However, I recognize that people had different experiences, and some people are not happy. That’s fine, but “it shouldn’t have launched” isn’t meaningful at this point.
I get where you're coming from, but I do not agree that the phrase "it shouldn't have launched in this state" isn't meaningful at this point. It absolutely is. Mariina, the wider dev team and (ultimately) Paradox need to hear it. Anyone from the wider gaming world happening upon these threads should take note.

Because they need to acknowledge it. I know I know, "butt hurt entitled gamer over here" etc etc but I've spent £90 on something that clearly wasn't fit for purpose when it released, and the continued failure on @co_martsu's part to come out and say these words:

"OK I get it. Yes, we released the game early because of financial pressure from Paradox and because we wanted to use early adopter PC players to help bug fix the console version"

is just indefensible at this point. There is so much broken about this release that it's impossible to believe CO can have been surprised on Release Day when there was a backlash against the state of the game at that point.
 
  • 10
  • 1
Reactions:
Quick thought experiment for you - if you were CO, what would you do if you were Mariina right now?

You sort of can - you can refund the two or three gamers who pre-ordered the game and aren't happy with the reality of the released game against the pre-release marketing, leaving the 99.999% of gamers who are happily playing the game to continue enjoying it as is their right while I and the other two unsatisfied consumers can go back to CS1.
" If you were CO", well… apart from hiding in a corner of the bar, with a hoodie pulled down over my face to hide my embarrassment, offer those who were shown images of Taylor Swift, then given the Hunchback of Notre Damme, something back. 20% off all future DLCs?
 
  • 1Haha
Reactions:
I get where you're coming from, but I do not agree that the phrase "it shouldn't have launched in this state" isn't meaningful at this point. It absolutely is. Mariina, the wider dev team and (ultimately) Paradox need to hear it. Anyone from the wider gaming world happening upon these threads should take note.

Because they need to acknowledge it. I know I know, "butt hurt entitled gamer over here" etc etc but I've spent £90 on something that clearly wasn't fit for purpose when it released, and the continued failure on @co_martsu's part to come out and say these words:
I think that this is a totally constructive and actionable comment.
 
This is the communication I have been waiting for 2,5 weeks now.

Looking forward to all those gameplay system fixes. I have put the game down and went back to CS1 and Anno 1800 because I play games for the gameplay and these issues are too big to ignore atm.

Hopefully these things are at least fixed before the holidays.

Postponing DLC and packs makes sense. As long as the gameplay and performance foundations are not 100 percent solid there is no point building on top of them.

Still this will remain one of the most disappointing releases of the past years in gaming for me, worse than other offenders that came before. U did a lot of hype building but really didn’t delivered at all and I hope you learned a valuable lesson here for future game and DLC releases. U know this game should be labelled ‘early access’ with a 10 euro price drop until 1.0 is ready.

Communication is all nice and great... But I didn't buy ultimate edition to wait months to play even the base game without many of its baseline systems not functioning..
 
  • 4Like
  • 1
Reactions:
Communication is all nice and great... But I didn't buy ultimate edition to wait months to play even the base game without many of its baseline systems not functioning..
Yeah same. It is meh

But it is what it is... We can't change history.

But I wont spend any more full price on DLC though on CO. Massive sles and allkeyshop it is.
 
I'm disappointed in the comment that they are going to "look at" people reserving housing. It's a reasonable assumption and shouldn't be at all controversial but because there is a small group posting all over the forum "THE WHOLE GAME IS FAKE AND MY PROOF IS THAT I CAN BUILD A HOUSE IN A PLACE WITH NO ROADS AND PEOPLE LIVE THERE". You build a house and someone owns it. You build a business and someone works there. The game assumes they will show up and If they can't, the game deletes the ownership and employment. Doesn't seem that crazy to me.
 
  • 4Like
  • 3
Reactions:
It's easy to get the current state of the game... in a month:

1500 posts in general to talk about the game.
3000 posts to report bugs.

Other games since launch: Vic3 8000 vs 4000; cs1 6000 vs 300; ck3 17000 vs 1700
 
  • 4Like
  • 2
  • 1
Reactions:
I'm disappointed in the comment that they are going to "look at" people reserving housing. It's a reasonable assumption and shouldn't be at all controversial but because there is a small group posting all over the forum "THE WHOLE GAME IS FAKE AND MY PROOF IS THAT I CAN BUILD A HOUSE IN A PLACE WITH NO ROADS AND PEOPLE LIVE THERE". You build a house and someone owns it. You build a business and someone works there. The game assumes they will show up and If they can't, the game deletes the ownership and employment. Doesn't seem that crazy to me.
It is only normal that they adress it. It is the biggest thread on this forum. 33 pages, 660 replies and 42 000 views. This topic is also extensively discussed on Reddit, Steam and YouTube since launch. So of course they should look into it and change stuff up.
 
It is only normal that they adress it. It is the biggest thread on this forum. 33 pages, 660 replies and 42 000 views. This topic is also extensively discussed on Reddit, Steam and YouTube since launch. So of course they should look into it and change stuff up.
A lot of people being wrong and confused together doesn't make them any less wrong and confused.

It took me 5 minutes of running that 'experiment' to figure out what was happening.
 
  • 3
  • 1
Reactions:
A lot of people being wrong and confused together doesn't make them any less wrong and confused.

It took me 5 minutes of running that 'experiment' to figure out what was happening.
True, but it also does mean the game is lacking in graphs, statistics, tutorials, options, settings and is bad design if it confuses so many people at once.

And it needs to be adressed by making things easier to track, better explained, or the best way....user options. That is why software products have telemetry and user feedback, which in this case is overwhelmingly. So I am glad they are adressing it and are looking into it and can eleminate the causes of the 'mass confusion.'
 
  • 3
  • 1Like
Reactions:
True, but it also does mean the game is lacking in graphs, statistics, tutorials, options, settings and is bad design if it confuses so many people at once.

And it needs to be adressed by making things easier to track, better explained, or the best way....user options. That is why software products have telemetry and user feedback, which in this case is overwhelmingly. So I am glad they are adressing it and are looking into it and can eleminate the causes of the 'mass confusion.'
I'm glad they're addressing it too. The lack of information made it too easy to outrage clickbait farm it.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
In the last Word of the Week, I touched upon the frequency of the expected fixes for Cities: Skylines II. For the last few weeks, we’ve been focusing on performance improvements and bug fixes at a rapid pace. As we’re continuing to work on the improvements we’ll adjust the pace of the updates slightly so we won’t see a new patch every week going forward but will have a bit longer cadence between them. We have made it through the quicker fixes and we’re now digging into the ones that require a bit more work. The next patch is not yet scheduled as it has performance improvements pending that we absolutely want to include in it.

The priorities for the team at Colossal Order are the following:

1. Performance improvements
Specifically, we are working on the level of detail models for the assets. This includes both adding missing LODs and improving the existing ones to improve the GPU performance. It might take more than one patch to address all of them, but we’ll roll out the first fixes as soon as possible. Following the asset and LOD fixes, we’ll work on improvements to CPU performance. This means focusing on the CPU stutters and simulation performance to improve simulation speed and smooth experience while scaling up the size of your cities.​
2. Bug fixing
We continue to go through your bug reports and have logged around 100 reproducible issues that have been moved to the team to look into. There are another 100 reports that we are still investigating that require more information and a bunch of duplicates, some of which add valuable information so we’ll go through all of them. We are also checking suggestions for improvement or new features, but these requests are currently at a lower priority.​
While the forum is the best place to report issues, our community team also keeps an eye on discussions outside of the forum so we can gather relevant information for the development team. Fixing gameplay bugs and issues is a high priority for us, and these can be anything from bigger overhauls of systems that are not functioning as intended to the smallest of annoyances.​
3. Editor/Modding support
The modding Beta group is testing the map editor and we’ll improve it based on their feedback before releasing it. Especially the placement of water on the map is under review since it’s currently too complicated. The UI will also receive a bit more love as it’s really difficult to find the available assets that can be placed on the map. I’ll keep you updated on the progress of the Editor and code modding and their release schedule, but the performance and bugs need to be sorted out first.​


Where we are right now
Talking about sorting, let’s talk about the Mail Service. This is a good example of a bigger overhaul caused by a few critical bugs resulting in the entire system behaving undesirably. We identified that the mail sent to the residents of the city, whether it be a citizen, a company, or a city service, is not delivered as it should. One culprit is the Post Sorting Facility as the mail is sorted in an erratic way, which makes me wonder what they are actually doing there if it’s not to sort the mail. The other issue is the Post Office vans that only seem to be collecting the mail instead of ever delivering it. Let’s see if we can get the light-fingered mail personnel under control! All jokes aside, now that these bugs have been identified and are being fixed we’ll have to test the entire system to see if it requires a rebalance. Therefore fixing the bugs takes time as we need possibly multiple QA rounds to make sure it’s working as it is supposed to.

Another issue we’re investigating on the gameplay side is the pathfinding regarding the Citizens’ ability to reserve housing even with no connection to the city. It kind of makes sense that one makes a rental agreement before moving in, so personally I wasn’t too worried about the fact that a house is assigned to a citizen when it’s being built. However, the problem appears with the companies as the citizen that has a rental agreement may also accept a job even if they have never made it to the city to begin with. So a Citizen stuck at the border of the city with no access to their house or their workplace is basically reserving those until the Citizen is deemed a lost cause and deleted from existence. We’ll look to improve this behaviour in a way that is more understandable and there’s a clear cut between the citizens that have made it to the city and those that have not.

We’re also looking at reports about export and distribution of goods in the city. Like mail, these require a deep dive to determine what is working as it should and what is not. I don’t have any details to share yet as we’re still digging into the different reports, but I wanted to let you know we haven’t missed the concerns you have raised. More on those next time!

Once the PC version is where we want it to be, we will be focusing on the console release and DLC content. We are committed to bringing the marketed DLC content to you, but it will not be landing in the originally promoted schedule. The first Asset Pack, Beach Properties, has been worked on by our artists’ and our outsourcing partner, but we’ll only implement them after the asset fix and performance work are completed to our satisfaction. I apologize for the delay, but we must not rush new content out before the base is ready for it. This also stands for the Content Creator Packs and Radio stations. Stay tuned for more information on these later!

Last Thursday we released the last weekly hotfix and it included a bunch of fixes, all of which can be found in the patch notes, but I want to highlight a few of them. The patch included a fix for the stuck “Garbage Piling Up” notifications, which didn’t clear properly after the previous fixes to the garbage collection. Now citizens will finally recognize that their bins are empty. We also took another step towards solving the issue where texture resolution drops significantly so you should see it pop up less often, though the work is still ongoing as some cases still remain. Lastly, but definitely not least, we resolved an issue that caused saves to load to a black screen when playing offline, bringing up some bad memories for some of our players. Like its predecessor, Cities: Skylines II can be played offline, so thank you for bringing this issue to light.

That’s it for this week, I’ll keep you posted!

Sincerely,
Mariina

This means that I will get content I already paid for later than expected. Still a good decision on your part, there is no point in adding content when the foundations are not up to standard yet.

Please take your time, but make it good.
 
  • 2Like
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:
I understand these weekly communication updates should give us gamers an insight and let us know how they're planning to bring the game back on track. But it's not really helpful when CO says that they're waiting with releasing new content until the base game is working. Makes me wonder why it was released in the first place (a question for the board).
I also think it doesn't help that CO doesn't answer more critical questions. It gives a sense of jerry picking and washing down the seriousness of the underlying problem: the game was not finished whatsoever when it was released.

In regards of not answering some concerns, I think people really want to hear something about this:
What's the plan with the missing animations? Were they excluded because of performance problems and will be included in the future? For me this is one of the bigger game breaker. What's the point of building all these cities, if they're no tennis players playing tennis, no soccer game in the stadium, no kids playing at the school, no firefighters actually running around, no police chase etc.

Long story short: CO and paradox made a big (intentional?) mistake and they're not owning up to it.
And I'm sorry for all the Devs. They deserved better.
 
  • 8Like
  • 1
Reactions:
It is only normal that they adress it. It is the biggest thread on this forum. 33 pages, 660 replies and 42 000 views. This topic is also extensively discussed on Reddit, Steam and YouTube since launch. So of course they should look into it and change stuff up.
It's addressed but no need to "fix" as it really isn't wrong. The assumption is clearly stated and has 0 impact on a normal game. It's like saying the game is broken because commercial building are built with inventory and in reality they should wait until they get their first delivery truck. Yes, but why care?
 
  • 1
Reactions:
The game certainly isn't perfect but it functions well 99% of the time (probably even higher than that) and moreso with each patch. I'm still enjoying the game immensely. Bravo and keep those patches coming.
 
  • 3Haha
  • 2Like
  • 1
Reactions:
With Cities: Skylines we bundled updates together as each update meant mods would often need to be updated as well. To minimize the disruption for players who mod the game and to avoid putting our modders through too many updates, we bundled content together in larger patches as much as possible. We'll have to see how things turn out with Cities: Skylines II modding and whether that still makes sense. Our goal is always to strike a good balance between delivering updates for our games and supporting the modding efforts that take place in the community.
Although I was never a CS1 modder, I can say from modding other games that big releases can be hard to update for too – in particular it gets way harder to figure out what new change is breaking your mod if there's a hundred new changes at once than if they come in batches of ten. The right balance for modding is probably not a release every week, but depending on the nature of the mod and of the update, it's highly variable what release schedule will be easiest to work with.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
I'm disappointed in the comment that they are going to "look at" people reserving housing. It's a reasonable assumption and shouldn't be at all controversial but because there is a small group posting all over the forum "THE WHOLE GAME IS FAKE AND MY PROOF IS THAT I CAN BUILD A HOUSE IN A PLACE WITH NO ROADS AND PEOPLE LIVE THERE". You build a house and someone owns it. You build a business and someone works there. The game assumes they will show up and If they can't, the game deletes the ownership and employment. Doesn't seem that crazy to me.
I kind of agree ish

Selling houses or signing leases with people for a house that's built 100 miles from them is not an issue.
Companies offering a job to someone 100 miles away from their business premises is not a problem.
All pretty standard irl

Companies spawning with a starting stock of resources is not really a problem, not realistic irl sure, although irl there are examples of companies spawning with a starting supply of resources, such as unscrupulous companies that build factories next to a local water source to steal the water from the indigenous population and bottle it for the entitled Western world js

But this is a game, some realism can be waved. Personally I don't want a thousand trucks streaming into my fledgling city to stock up the swathe of IC buildings as they spawn.

But where I draw the line is the businesses producing/trading in ian isolated city where those remote employees cannot reach their place of work. This is what should be looked at, it's a facet of realism that cannot and should not be waved away.

As for culling the residents/employees that cannot reach their homes/jobs, sure after a while, why not if it appeases those players that don't understand irl they can actually buy a house in a distant country right now, only to find out when they take a 10 hour flight with connecting 4 hour train journey and a dangerous overcrowded ancient bus ride up the side of a mountain, then finally taking the last mile on a mule over the undeveloped terrain that there is no house, they have in fact been scammed by that Nigerian Prince.

But are players prepared for their city suddenly losing 100K citizens due to culling because they didn't realise they have a broken network somewhere in the back of their sprawling city preventing outside connections, or due to a bad network asset when modding arrives?

Don't get me wrong, I am not a fanboi, and never will be after this dumpster of a early access sold as a finished game, and have been vocally critical of CO over this debacle, but I'm also honest in my criticism.

This is not a major issue, it should not divert CO from addressing real issues that actually impact the game. I'd rather they use their resources balancing the traffic AI, or fixing the pedestrian pathing making cims not use the ridiculous long pedestrian walkway ramps we are forced to make, or better yet sort out the disappointing delayed mod platform.

This remote housing/employment non issue can wait.
 
  • 4Like
Reactions:
As for culling the residents/employees that cannot reach their homes/jobs, sure after a while, why not if it appeases those players that don't understand irl they can actually buy a house in a distant country right now, only to find out when they take a 10 hour flight with connecting 4 hour train journey and a dangerous overcrowded ancient bus ride up the side of a mountain, then finally taking the last mile on a mule over the undeveloped terrain that there is no house, they have in fact been scammed by that Nigerian Prince.
The culling already happens. The cim times out, is removed from existence,, and is almost immediately replaced by another cim who will never be able to make it to the house.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: