Hi Everyone!

We got the proofread localization files and managed to fix some other bugs last week. QA also had the time to go through the patch and verified the fixes. This means the patch is going live today! See the full notes below.

The team continues their normal work this week, except for Karoliina who is attending Quo Vadis conference in Berlin as a speaker and on Thursday I will be attending the Finnish Game Awards where Cities: Skylines is nominated in two categories. It's rather exciting!

Just to be sure I ordered cakes for next week so we can either celebrate the win or drown our sorrow in delicious and unhealthy sweets. I think that's only fair, right?

Cheers,
Mariina

1.4.1-f2

• Fixed: Assets editor ignores vertex colours when a mesh is imported
• Fixed: Buses can enter and exit bus stations located at highways with sound barriers
• Fixed: Rocks, Trees, and Shrubs can clip through elevated roads and paths when terrain is elevated with Shift Tool
• Fixed: Building a Cargo Hub also add weekly Train expenses
• Fixed: Expansion 1: Text: The default names of the Souvenir Shops have the word "Souvenirs" misspelled.
• Fixed: Text overlap in New Game panel when using Polish language
• Fixed: Text goes out of bounds in Load Game panel in several languages
• Fixed: Road maintenance pickup has misplaced headlights
• Fixed: Placing a Six-Lane Road to the edge of a Train Track cause it to clip through it
• Fixed: Map Editor: Environment props could be sorted in different tabs.
• Fixed: Asset Editor: UI: Map Editor Environment assets could be sorted in a different tab of the Building Asset Importer.
• Fixed: custom water normalmap issue
• Added newly proof read and fixed strings
• Fixed: localization issues
• Fixed: Hovering / floating cars going across map
• Fixed: Changing elevated pedestrian path to ground level near elevated road causes visible path level issue
• Improvement: Added confirmation window when unsubscribing Steam Workshop items from Content Manager

 

[steevm]

I'm afraid we don't want to stop updating the game. Please subscribe to mods that are updated to avoid such issues.

I don't think anyone is asking you to stop updating the game. Just a method of not having the updates forced on the players so it breaks the saves. Give everyone the choice of when to move to the next patch - and give modders the chance to update their mod. As I am sure you are aware, you have to wait for the mods to update, you can't "subscribe to an updated mod" until the creator of the mod has updated it, and the mod won't be updated until the patch is out that breaks it. Catch 22 anyone?

This game's success and popularity is because of the mods, so it's really in your interest to find a better solution to this. I know it's partially steam's fault, but it's also your fault for not using the beta function or lobbying steam for a better solution. This is a massive problem with loads of games on steam. It's also just a different type of "always online" which breaks the game - you're getting more slack because it's not as intrusive as SimCity 5. But these game-breaking changes are extremely intrusive.


@Sotrax: Actually CO did break the game, because it's their modding interface that is the root of all these problems. The mods that break are going to break with every update because of how CO designed the game. If the mod creators could simply override the existing methods, we wouldn't have half as many issues. Believe me, if they could make the mod so that updates wouldn't break them, they would. It's no fun having to fix the mods for each patch. So my suggestion for the next update would be: an improved modding interface, a documented API and non-breaking patches.

One can dream, right?

 

[dominic2005]

Actually, CO has broke nothing. Yes they created the game with the intention of allowing it to be freely modified, but key word there: modified. You are taking a file that "alters" the function of the software to that which CO intended. These mods are created with a fixed code, so when an update is released, of course it is going to break. It's the mod that is breaking, not the game.

Sorry, but as someone else said, that is something you simply just have to accept when using mods. Key word again: modification. It's not up to Steam or CO to do anything about. They cannot penalise 1000's of users simply because you don't have the patience to wait until an author has the time to update various mods following a game update. Remember that most of these people do this in their spare time and share out of the goodness of their heart.

Throwing your toys out every time an update is released is counter productive.

If you don't like the fact that an UNOFFICIAL mod CAN and WILL break following an OFFICIAL update, then don't use them, simple as that.

 

[co_martsu]

Let's take a deep breath here

We support modding of the game to some extent, unfortunately (or luckily depends on your view) we did not foresee it being so widely done and so amazingly creatively done that most mods go way beyond the API we have created. This causes multiple issues when the game is updated. We do our best to mitigate the problems, but unfortunately the risk of getting errors and broken mods is always there when you choose to use them.

The modders are amazingly on top of their game and have been very quick to react when a new update or patch is out. I am so happy to see such a dedicated group of people working towards a common good. So let's give them some time to figure things out and enjoy the opportunities the modding tools give us.

We also have a huge group of people who play the vanilla game and we want to make sure they get to enjoy an improved game so updates will keep coming!

 

[vukica]

@co_martsu, maybe in future updates you could avoid removing obsolete methods.

I've taken over two mods that were abandoned and the only changes I had to do was add a new argument to some method calls.

You could keep the old method, but add this in front of it.

[Obsolete("Method1 is deprecated, please use Method2 instead.")]

This will allow the method to continue working, but it will show a warning in IDE that it's deprecated.
On the next patch remove it completely (since you don't want to waste time supporting deprecated code).

This way the modders would have enough time to remove deprecated methods, and use the new stuff, and most of the stuff would work after a patch.
I think this should work for entire classes too.

EDIT:
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/22kk2b44(v=vs.90).aspx

It can be also setup to throw compiler error on next build.

 

[steevm]

Actually, CO has broke nothing. Yes they created the game with the intention of allowing it to be freely modified, but key word there: modified. You are taking a file that "alters" the function of the software to that which CO intended. These mods are created with a fixed code, so when an update is released, of course it is going to break. It's the mod that is breaking, not the game.

Sorry, but as someone else said, that is something you simply just have to accept when using mods. Key word again: modification. It's not up to Steam or CO to do anything about. They cannot penalise 1000's of users simply because you don't have the patience to wait until an author has the time to update various mods following a game update. Remember that most of these people do this in their spare time and share out of the goodness of their heart.

Throwing your toys out every time an update is released is counter productive.

If you don't like the fact that an UNOFFICIAL mod CAN and WILL break following an OFFICIAL update, then don't use them, simple as that.

None of which changes the fact that the inherent design choices that CO made are the problem. Which is something that can be fixed too.

A lot of modders feel left in the lurch by CO, and for good reason.

There are many possible solutions, why not be pragmatic and look for a solution instead? Or do you think this is a good thing per se?

 

[MotownCountry]

Let's take a deep breath here

We support modding of the game to some extent, unfortunately (or luckily depends on your view) we did not foresee it being so widely done and so amazingly creatively done that most mods go way beyond the API we have created. This causes multiple issues when the game is updated. We do our best to mitigate the problems, but unfortunately the risk of getting errors and broken mods is always there when you choose to use them.

The modders are amazingly on top of their game and have been very quick to react when a new update or patch is out. I am so happy to see such a dedicated group of people working towards a common good. So let's give them some time to figure things out and enjoy the opportunities the modding tools give us.

We also have a huge group of people who play the vanilla game and we want to make sure they get to enjoy an improved game so updates will keep coming!

perhaps maybe a temporary pinned message on the forums here...a week BEFORE the update patch gets released...to alert the modders that an update is coming up in ONE WEEK. that way, they can choose to "be ready with their finger on the button" when the update comes out. and everyone else needs to stop complaining the minute an update is released. they need to give it a week or two, to let modders catch up. does any of this make any sense? i'm not very good at explaining the thoughts in my head.

 

[japiek]

Unfortunately that is not something we will be focusing on I'm afraid.

Why would you NOT focus on what a lot of people think is the most important in Skylines? Care to elaborate?

Skylines is a very interesting project, but the traffic AI basically makes this game a trainwreck. I really don't care about snowflakes and small bug fixes when only one lane out of six are used by Cims. WHY do we need to rely on the wonderful modding community? Luckily Traffic Manager President Edition does a proper job and is the sole reason I still play this game. I need 50 mods to give me *basic* city building tools. (like precision engineering, no pillars, elevated stops enabler, and so on)

I feel this is a disgrace. You sell a million copies of a game thats essentially broken, then go on selling addons that do not bring us what we want (skimming lanes, better AI, modular sea and airports, etc, not snowflakes!) Then you guys probably take a couple of holidays, buy new fast cars and leave the biggest problems your product faces for the non-profit MOD community to solve! Go figure!

I bought Skylines, and I regret I did. Even with the 50 mods to make it *playable* I feel I paid too much. Especially when I see answers like this. "Not our focus", well, what is your focus? Let me guess: new DLC, more $$$, while proper pathfinding / traffic AI is too much to ask because of the programming challenges it offers? Come on...! And it's not just the traffic that's messed up! Do I need to mention ''garbage collection"?

I will think twice before buying another Paradox game! But I will keep an eye on Skylines. This game would be an absolute killer with decent car/train AI. Hopefully in the future you will bring us a game that actually works!

 

[Keltia_Vikinga]

japiek, maybe is time for you to learn management in CS instead of complain, or you didn't understand that game...
I can enjoy the game without traffic manager.
As I do.

 

[Caiobrz]

Sure it would be worth to look into at some point. However it will not happen in the next update or even the one after that. The traffic AI has been discussed multiple times and we have explained it works as intended and changing the behaviour has impact on the performance. Due to that reason we have estimated the workload for improving the traffic being so significant that it is not feasible for us to focus on it any time soon. Currently we are focusing on other things and maybe later in the future we will revisit the question. I really just don't want to give any false hope for a speedy change in the traffic AI as there is not going to be one. I'm not saying we ignore the issue, but we have chosen to prioritize other things over this one.



Haha I'm glad this helps you out!

Dear CO, by now it is clear to me that anything you dont want to do you will blame on performance. This game was born from "cities in montion" with a clear focus on traffic, yet you never care to fix the traffic and keep adding eye candy. You fail do add the most mindblowing simple fixes out of clear "principle" like it is part of your motto not to hear ANY gameplay improvements, only eyecandy improvements. Your constant "patching" (for text and eyecandy, really?) keeps breaking mods, which you sell as a plus to the game... Why bother allow mods if you break them weakly with useless (sometimes not even published patch fix list) patches?

Thanks to you, I got back to high hopes on realistic SIM games. Thanks to you, I am now hoping that EA catches up and deliver the game we are all hoping you patch with simple changes like toggleable traffic lights (NO PERFORMANCE IMPACT WHATSOEVER) and improved lane A.I. (some mod ideas have NO PERFORMANCE IMPACT WHATSOEVER). But no, lets add a better eyecandy (as if visual effects magically didnt have performance impacts)

Think for 5 seconds and release a PAID DLC that features ONLY gameplay fixes with a big fancy warning "this DLC is a nerdsgasm but you need a 25% better specs computer to play). Then pretend you are smart and even allow said DLC to be togglable (different executables? Yes, it is a thing, lots of games release double executables for big expansions)

I WILL PAY FULL NEW GAME PRICE for a traffic overhaul DLC. I bet hundreds of other players would, and it would take you a week to implement those changes in another DLC by simply copying the ideas of open source mods you are so found of breaking every patch, that people with jobs and other stuff to do still fix in a couple of days.

CO to me is becoming more and more worse than EA in PR. Not paying a cent to anything you release anymore, you dont care about real gammers, only about screenshot nuts, dumbed down co sole players that want to see pretty water effects. Curse the day I bought the cities in montion series. If CS dont get a real patch, curse it too. Simcity 6 here I Go

 

[Caiobrz]

Actually, CO has broke nothing...

...Sorry, but as someone else said, that is something you simply just have to accept when using mods. Key word again: modification... .

You are wrong. They advertise the game everywhere with "great modding capabilities" and "awesome mod features". If they intended to implement that half-assed and buggy, and advertise, which everyone knows catters to a lot of players who pay extra for moddable games (one of the most selling points for PC over Consoles), then this is grounds for refund and even suing for wrongfully advertisement.

I would refund the game right now if I could, since they did not deliver neither a stable modding community, nor a city simulation. Bit hey, takes you time to realize that, good for them refund time is over, now we are stuck with Sim-Lens flare.

 

[dominic2005]

Sorry to be blunt here, but after reading your last two posts, you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

Firstly,

toggleable traffic lights (NO PERFORMANCE IMPACT WHATSOEVER)

It WILL have an impact on performance. Because as well as the code to enable the player to switch the lights, the AI also needs to be programmed to take notice of that and interrupt it's pre-scheduled coding, and so on. Therefore, creating more work for the CPU to calculate...

Has to be one of the daftest comments I've ever read, and trust me, I've read a few. But hey, if it is so simple, then prove us wrong! If you know so very much about it...go away and make your own code to do just what you are asking, implement it into the game and PROVE that it makes no difference on performance and ACTUALLY has a valid affect on the game play experience.

By the way, have you stopped to perhaps think that maybe your road layouts are the real issue? I've never had much problems getting to grips with easing congestion...

PS: You have to allow for the idiot drivers who are never in the right lane, makes it more realistic if you ask me



CO: Is it possible to have a toggleable grid in the map editor and in live mode? Same as the one in the asset editor? (Or is there one there and I am just being completely thick with finding it lol

 

[Caiobrz]

Sorry to be blunt here, but after reading your last two posts, you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

I see, good arguments!

Firstly, It WILL have an impact on performance. Because as well as the code to enable the player to switch the lights, the AI also needs to be programmed to take notice of that and interrupt it's pre-scheduled coding, and so on. Therefore, creating more work for the CPU to calculate...

I have no idea what I am talking about because, after all, IT IS ALREADY IMPLEMENTED IN THE GAME, only the traffic lights are added automatically. There are two ridiculously simple mods that (1) make the default not adding the traffic lights or (2) enable you to toggle them. No CPU impact because the game already have it implemented, only you don't have the option because CO thought it would make traffic control too minimalistic. Comes the obvious "then use the mod" argument, rebutal: (1) patches sometimes break them, (2) ingame implementation would have higher performance and better/standard UI, (3) lazy excuse to release games lacking so the community does the heavy lifting.

Has to be one of the daftest comments I've ever read, and trust me, I've read a few. But hey, if it is so simple, then prove us wrong!

Done

By the way, have you stopped to perhaps think that maybe your road layouts are the real issue? I've never had much problems getting to grips with easing congestion...

Sure I have, that is why my cities have no traffic, because I build the most unrealistic layouts to adhere to the game engine, not real life traffic. What I am asking here, if you stopped being an ass for 5 seconds, is to approach the simulation more like real life, instead of requiring people to read guides and learn how traffic "in CS" works and forget half of what they know in real life.

PS: You have to allow for the idiot drivers who are never in the right lane, makes it more realistic if you ask me

I once proposed a randomization for vehicles take wrong turns, simple, no impact, does that.

If you really think I am that stupid, read what Paradox has to say about me: https://www.reddit.com/r/CitiesSkyl...ines_1_year_of_eyecandy_but_where_are/d1b0eys

 

[Radltruhe]

Hi CO,

I read several postings in the forum about features/fixes added to a wishlist / todo list about the future development what's upcoming.
But is there a official list available to public so we can see what will be the next to expect in CS? Just some more informations on what exactly CO is working on at the moment. I am not thinking of NDA Infos. I understand you are not allowed to post some informations, but I think there are some things you actually plan
to include/fix for the game and are not under NDA?

Example:
- Q3/16 fix for XXX planned
- Q3/16 feature ZZZ from community request planned
- Q4/16 fix for YYY planned

Or maybe just some info whats on your todo list so we can look forward what's going on next.

Best regards from Austria!

 

[japiek]

japiek, maybe is time for you to learn management in CS instead of complain, or you didn't understand that game...
I can enjoy the game without traffic manager.
As I do.

Good to hear you enjoy it without a mod that gives it at least basic functionality. For me, I cannot enjoy 'tackling traffic problems' when Cims just use 1 lane when they need to take a right turn half a mile down the road and ignore the other 5. That's what's called 'broken functionality' IMHO. Kinda like Empire Total War with only 1 out of 6 armies attacking the enemy. So much fun.... It's so utterly unrealistic and below par it needs to be addressed ASAP. We're up to version 1.4-something. We've had countless patches. We've had DLC for CO to ca$h cow this trainwreck even more. What do we get? Some bugfixes and snowflakes. What have they left untouched since day one? The Zombie drivers. The ultra insane train spawning and AI. And... there are no skimming lanes. It's still impossible to remove crossovers. Floating cars. Disappearing cars. Stuck cars. It's not a challenge and fun.... It's frustrating!

CO's ca$h cow needs to be saved by a German computer science student to get something that at least looks a bit like normal traffic. It also adds basic functionality (priority signs, max speeds, toggable traffic lights, timed traffic lights, vehicle restrictions) CO has still to come up with. How lame. Mandatory tools to keep traffic flowing in dense inner cities of course. By far most people who disagree with me only disagree because of the high level of negativity in my message. People hate that, I know. But I feel there's no other way to say this. CO's attitude in this is atrocious and so my verdict is atrocious. CO also always ignores questions about this, like in this topic. And I'm sure they will also never reply me as to why they keep ignoring the totally broken traffic functionality of the game. I was sure they were gonna fix it. But they didn't and they don't. A German student has to do that. And even though I'm very happy with that mod, I want it to be a lot better. Moreover, I want it to be vanilla! Basic Game Functionality Complete, so to say.

I know damn well what issues should be on top of the bug fix list for next release. But I bet we will get autumn trees and hail storms, other things we don't need, way long before Cim's start using the damn roads! Skimming lanes? Probably never. Have fun tackling AI Zombie traffic problems with a way too small traffic toolbox to do so, Keltia. Not my cake dude.

 

[co_martsu]

Quick update on this thread still about the traffic AI. It is what it is for the time being. It's unfortunate some people don't enjoy the game due to our design choices. That is game development, we do our best and some people like the game and some don't. We take all feedback on board and traffic AI is one of the things we have gotten a lot of feedback on and we know it can always be done better. Can we do anything about it right now? Unfortunately no. Will we ever try to improve the way our games are made? Of course.

 

[MotownCountry]

Quick update on this thread still about the traffic AI. It is what it is for the time being. It's unfortunate some people don't enjoy the game due to our design choices. That is game development, we do our best and some people like the game and some don't. We take all feedback on board and traffic AI is one of the things we have gotten a lot of feedback on and we know it can always be done better. Can we do anything about it right now? Unfortunately no. Will we ever try to improve the way our games are made? Of course.

i don't HATE the way traffic goes in the game. sure it's annoying. but i still play. The rest of the game is still so much fun more me. and that fun outweighs idiot traffic. besides, to me...it's just like in real life....LOL

 

[Tanaxia]

Quick update on this thread still about the traffic AI. It is what it is for the time being. It's unfortunate some people don't enjoy the game due to our design choices. That is game development, we do our best and some people like the game and some don't. We take all feedback on board and traffic AI is one of the things we have gotten a lot of feedback on and we know it can always be done better. Can we do anything about it right now? Unfortunately no. Will we ever try to improve the way our games are made? Of course.

I don't want to fuel this fire that was started but I have a question and that is; Will you prioritize something higher if more people wish for it? Or does that not matter due to other factors, e.g. you have your own priority list and external wishes does not alter it? Or how does it work?

 

[co_martsu]

I don't want to fuel this fire that was started but I have a question and that is; Will you prioritize something higher if more people wish for it? Or does that not matter due to other factors, e.g. you have your own priority list and external wishes does not alter it? Or how does it work?

We get a ton of feedback from the community and we appreciate it immensely. The whole point of us being active in the communication is to understand what you guys want to see in the game next and what are the things we should improve on. Quick answer seems to be that everything needs to be better and everything added However we get a lot of detailed feedback and new ideas we can utilize in the planning.

We have a wishlist that is actively updated and tasks are prioritized based on various factors: Devs plan, how it fits with our publisher's plan and what community is wishing for. I'll give two examples: After Dark expansion was made solely due to the community wishes for the day and night cycle. We were working on the first expansion and changed the direction of it completely to the horror of our dear publisher. In the end we all agreed this is a better expansion and went with it. On the other hand the traffic AI has gotten a lot of criticism and I have answered time and time again that as it is unfortunate some people don't like it we won't be touching the system at this time.

What we need to remember is that there are certain limitations, like resource and technical ones, and that we also have a grand vision for the game. We plan to work on it in the long run and have to make sure decisions made reflect that vision. We also have to remember that majority of the players never visit forums or voice their opinion. It is sometimes the most hardcore players that are the most active and it can lead to the feedback also reflecting a rather narrow point of view.

All in all: We want your feedback and it truly does affect the priorities and the wishlist. However when I say something is not going to be a high priority it doesn't help to go on a rage about it, even if you would really hate me at that time and would never ever buy any of our games again.

 

[Keltia_Vikinga]

-would be nice if CO, paradox, nvidia and/or amd could work on the graphic looking of the game.... anti aliasing and stuff since that is a pain for many players...
-traffic is challenge, so i don't use mods for making this easier or the game would be less fun for me...
-i still want to drive in my city : )

but keep up the good work, CO!

 

[japiek]

Quick update on this thread still about the traffic AI. It is what it is for the time being. It's unfortunate some people don't enjoy the game due to our design choices. That is game development, we do our best and some people like the game and some don't. We take all feedback on board and traffic AI is one of the things we have gotten a lot of feedback on and we know it can always be done better. Can we do anything about it right now? Unfortunately no. Will we ever try to improve the way our games are made? Of course.

If that's true then explain to me why a German student managed to VASTLY improve this section of the game all by himself in three months time?!

If you set your timed traffic lights, speed limits and priority signs at roundabouts right it actually looks like normal traffic. In another GALAXY compared to CO after countless updates and DLC.

I'm not buying this Martsu. You can do lots more. Or else, give Victor a job!