CO Word of the Week #9

[A lowborn Emperor]

city wide heavy vehicle traffic jams as trucks constantly try to place and retrieve stuff.

I think even when they fix import/export the cargo assets will continue to cause heavy traffic jams due to their design.

I still can't fathom how the evolution from CS1 didn't change the cargo hubs to a drive through format. The one way in/out format just can't do anything but backup the traffic imho

 

[ClemiMD]

Hi all,
Well, that sounds like a real plan. It won't meet the expectations of the community, but anyway: Thanks for the update! It's good to hear that everything is being worked on.
The next patch is on the way and ... Modding ... by "Finnish fall" do you literally mean fall as a season? October, November, December... Oh my, I can already hear the people who are eagerly wishing for mod support gasping for air.
I hope it's worth the long wait. Or as we say in Germany: All good beer needs good fermenting. Or something like that...

 

[anton95]

Thanks for the update.

It's good to hear that code modding won't be delayed till after the problems with asset importing are fixed. Also, happy to hear that land value fixes are on the way and pollution influencing land value more is a welcome change.

 

[IRONBLASTER]

Welcome back to the weekly update on what’s happening at Colossal Order and what to expect for Cities: Skylines II. Last week we had in-depth conversations with our publisher Paradox Interactive on the priorities and goals for Cities: Skylines II for 2024. There’s really nothing new when it comes to the previous statements: Modding support, console versions, and the Expansion Pass content are to be worked on and released during the year. From the great discussions emerged an important decision however: the modding support will roll out gradually as the features enter beta and we won’t wait for all of them to be fully completed before setting them live.

What this means in practice is that we’ll start giving the mod creators early access to the modding tools as soon as the code modding and Paradox Mods are ready for testing. If everything goes as planned a Public Beta version of the code modding and Paradox Mods will be available a couple of weeks after that. We’ll continue to work on the Map and Asset editing as they require a bit more attention still. Map editing is expected to be available sooner than the Asset editing, but at this time it comes down to iteration time and the feedback we’re getting on the usability of the tool. Asset editing is unfortunately suffering from technical issues and as long as players are unable to save and share the assets there’s no point publicly releasing the tools. We do have a plan for the fixes, but it might take months in the worst case I’m afraid.

To summarize on the priorities of the modding support:

1. Public Beta version of code modding and Paradox Mods will be available in the live build by the end of March
2. Public Beta version of Map editing available in the live build together with code modding or soon after
3. Public Beta version of Asset editing to be announced, only after the technical issues are sorted can we roll out the tool
4. Continue to work on the modding support and get out of the Beta stage during the Finnish fall.

We’ll keep resources on the modding support throughout the entire lifecycle of Cities: Skylines II as we know there are many improvements and feature requests we can work on to help the modders achieve their goals even after the initial Beta release.

The work on the console versions is ongoing and while gated by the modding support we’re making progress. We’re not committing to any timelines as there are too many unknowns at this time, but we’ll keep you updated and will communicate the moment we have something to share. For the Expansion Pass, the artists have the Beach Properties content almost ready and we’re on track for its release.

Before those bigger releases, we’ll have one more patch coming out. After this, we’ll include the bug fixes and performance improvements in the releases to reduce the amount of individual patches. Patch 1.0.19 is going through its first round in QA at the moment and will be released after it passes the checks. Full patch notes will be released on the day the patch goes live, but you can expect fixes for stuck maintenance vehicles and an additional fix for abandoned dogs, who will now be returned to their homes. While the work still continues on the land value, we have an improvement so pollution properly affects the value. And last, but definitely not least, we’re currently testing a fix for the tax bug with crazy high or negative numbers.

Keep following our social channels for news about the patch release and hope you enjoy the game in the meantime. Have a lovely week!

Sincerely,
Mariina

Please gave an option to upgrade from base to ultimate editions for us faithful pre-order players, I had got base to test the game first and I been loving it, now I'm stuck over on the base game. I've no way of getting the ultimate edition, I can't even rebuy ultimate edition on steam.

Pls allow us an option to upgrade, especially for the ones who pre-ordered as a token at least.

I'll eagerly wait for them updates, the game has improved already by a lot and is much more stable and also kudos for bringing the reviews up, there's still more to go but ya all got this!

For the community part... I've faced a little of that too, and I can understand and feel how much love your dev team has put into, there were some failures, some I say, but I want ya all to know for 20 or 30% bad part (mostly technical stuff, balancing, etc) the rest 70% was a blast and that's why people have been stuck for around the game!

Internet toxicity can be devastating for mental health, I hope we reach a better point and that the team slowly learn to better ignore haters, as they always will be there, it's very tough but I think it's worth standing back again for the amazing creation you all have given birth to, you all are amazing and remember to err is to be human!


As a person working in the field of mental health, I hope ya all have adequate breaks and keep it still in your back of the head about you have made a marvellous game and there's much more fans and lovers than there are toxic haters for this game!

I Love this game, and love the love and passion the team has put! My best wishes to you all!

 

[[Delta ²k5]]

I recall previously the problem had been described as automation of LODs, is that still the problem?

Iirc that was not related. They said that the automatic LOD generation for the editor must work in some satisfying way (as per asset type to not cause pop ins but also not to hammer GPUs) on release but not that this is the actual blocker they face. It's more like stuff cannot be properly imported (meshes being messed up or vertex colors missing used by the editor or textures getting messed up or packing the assets does run into an error...).

How were you able to import assets into the game if the first place if it's so broken?

They likely didn't use the editor, instead they used dedicated dev tools and/or combinations of tools which might not be a WYSIWYG editor but command line tools to build the assets. The editor is a different story as it has to be user friendly to be on one par with the C:S1 editor.

 

[Bloody Regina]

Thank you for sharing this week information.
This week, you focused solely on the topic of the Editor again.
We understand that you focus the Editor, but we want to know when the unfinished game will be completed.
(I don't think the current situation we are facing can be described as a 'bug'. It's more appropriate to call it 'unfinished'.)

Could you please make the list including the following items?
That way, we can determine when we will back to the game.

1. Issues you have confirmed.
2. Issues you are currently working on.
3. Estimated date for issue fixes.

We are users who purchased this game, not testers.

And please realize that you are getting on the nerves of your users by leaving the game unfinished and only releasing information about the Editor.
Or have you given up on finishing the game yourself? Are you focusing on Editor information to have modders finish the game for you?

 

[LocutusH]

So you can not add, or change anything, on last weeks very negative forecasts.

I guess then we have to accept, that CS2 is basically abandonware now, and that 1 single dev still working on it simply cant do more than this.
Your A4 letter translated: "maybe some small changes every month or so, but even that not sure"

I hope you dont expect any positive feedback on this.

 

[unmerged(524934)]

@co_martsu Wow, that's quite the pill to swallow, potentially another 8 or 9 months before the full suite of modding tools comes out of beta? Looking at the Steam player numbers, I'm honestly not sure the game's got the legs to keep going that long.

I can understand why you're pushing ahead with the Expansion Pass work though - I imagine you'd be having some tricky conversations with the various national trading standards bodies if you delayed what's been promised beyond the next couple of months.

 

[Purplizer]

Thank you for this extra information ... I guess.

This way, I can at least make the informed decision that I can forget about this game until the end of the year, because all the promises of "coming soon" aren't actually true. And while I was still hopeful, everyone talking about "this game needed an extra year of development before v1" was actually being realistic.

That being said, I can't believe how you completely ignored all the comments on WOW8. Literally 90% of the posts asked for more patches because it's all going so slow, that the focus be on pc version and you should stop talking about consoles for a while.
And now you are saying you are going the decrease the number of patches and focus on bigger releases, and that the console version remains one of the topc priorities.

And those priorities, man, I read that 4 times because I couldn't believe it. But "finishing/fixing the pc version" isn't even on the list. Again. What a WOW ...

 

[ImanIdgit]

As a consoler, I will attempt to pre-emptively answer the inevitable question of certain other consolers, based on this quote:

"The work on the console versions is ongoing and while gated by the modding support we’re making progress. We’re not committing to any timelines as there are too many unknowns at this time, but we’ll keep you updated and will communicate the moment we have something to share."

Console Release Update: Changed from Spring to Unknown

 

[Ar3mis]

Am so disappointed with CO and Paradox as a console player. Would have been great to get the opportunity to actually play the game on console. I guess the money’s is in PC players. Good luck hope it works out in the end.

 

[Sequeira]

Thanks for the update. I was thinking on the economics simulation (for me there are three main bugs, the tax/subsidy bug); the no export bug and the not enough resources in commercial buildings). Anyway the first is the worst. I suppose tax or subsidies affect profits (i.e. are a % on the amount of profits which can be negative); so if you tax negative profits, tax amount will become negative. In the same way, subsidies on negative profits would become positive. In real economy, we only tax positive profits, so tax should be zero if profits get <=0. Also in real life subsidies are not really given to profits; they are given to some kind of expenditures (e.g. R&D expenditures, Energy expenditures, and so on). But to keep things simple, if one subsidize a sector, just allow to subsidize positive profits also... to be more realistic the subsidies should be calculated in a completely different way than taxes, but this may not be a priority by now. I do not know if this helps ...
Anyway, these economics bugs really bother my gameplay. On the other hand I think the game is amazing and the simulation is much more realistic than in CS1, so congratulations and keep going...

 

[Thomas Kenobi]

Thank you for this update! As someone also working on software I can understand how challenging it can be to commit to specific fixes and timelines in advance. I appreciate your effort to provide clarity.

It will be especially good to see fixes for some of the major current issues like the taxation and land value bugs. For my part I paused working on my city because of some of these so I'm looking forward to get back into it.

However, I have a question about rolling future patches into releases. I understand that with the modding tools, console release, and promised dlcs you have a lot on your plate, but I hope this doesn't introduce large delays between fixes to the base game. There are still a number of documented bugs that can be frustrating to deal with and that, purely in my subjective view, are more important to fix. Though I do understand that a lot of the community would prioritise the modding tools.

 

[Briggzyy]

Welcome back to the weekly update on what’s happening at Colossal Order and what to expect for Cities: Skylines II. Last week we had in-depth conversations with our publisher Paradox Interactive on the priorities and goals for Cities: Skylines II for 2024. There’s really nothing new when it comes to the previous statements: Modding support, console versions, and the Expansion Pass content are to be worked on and released during the year. From the great discussions emerged an important decision however: the modding support will roll out gradually as the features enter beta and we won’t wait for all of them to be fully completed before setting them live.

What this means in practice is that we’ll start giving the mod creators early access to the modding tools as soon as the code modding and Paradox Mods are ready for testing. If everything goes as planned a Public Beta version of the code modding and Paradox Mods will be available a couple of weeks after that. We’ll continue to work on the Map and Asset editing as they require a bit more attention still. Map editing is expected to be available sooner than the Asset editing, but at this time it comes down to iteration time and the feedback we’re getting on the usability of the tool. Asset editing is unfortunately suffering from technical issues and as long as players are unable to save and share the assets there’s no point publicly releasing the tools. We do have a plan for the fixes, but it might take months in the worst case I’m afraid.

To summarize on the priorities of the modding support:

1. Public Beta version of code modding and Paradox Mods will be available in the live build by the end of March
2. Public Beta version of Map editing available in the live build together with code modding or soon after
3. Public Beta version of Asset editing to be announced, only after the technical issues are sorted can we roll out the tool
4. Continue to work on the modding support and get out of the Beta stage during the Finnish fall.

We’ll keep resources on the modding support throughout the entire lifecycle of Cities: Skylines II as we know there are many improvements and feature requests we can work on to help the modders achieve their goals even after the initial Beta release.

The work on the console versions is ongoing and while gated by the modding support we’re making progress. We’re not committing to any timelines as there are too many unknowns at this time, but we’ll keep you updated and will communicate the moment we have something to share. For the Expansion Pass, the artists have the Beach Properties content almost ready and we’re on track for its release.

Before those bigger releases, we’ll have one more patch coming out. After this, we’ll include the bug fixes and performance improvements in the releases to reduce the amount of individual patches. Patch 1.0.19 is going through its first round in QA at the moment and will be released after it passes the checks. Full patch notes will be released on the day the patch goes live, but you can expect fixes for stuck maintenance vehicles and an additional fix for abandoned dogs, who will now be returned to their homes. While the work still continues on the land value, we have an improvement so pollution properly affects the value. And last, but definitely not least, we’re currently testing a fix for the tax bug with crazy high or negative numbers.

Keep following our social channels for news about the patch release and hope you enjoy the game in the meantime. Have a lovely week!

Sincerely,
Mariina

Damn this is tough to read. The game is unplayable for me on a mid tier pc, even on the lowest settings. No mod support till 6 months after release too! No dlss or mod support for modders to add it in either. Mention of DLC rubs salt on the wounds too

 

[ImanIdgit]

Hi all,
Well, that sounds like a real plan. It won't meet the expectations of the community, but anyway: Thanks for the update! It's good to hear that everything is being worked on.
The next patch is on the way and ... Modding ... by "Finnish fall" do you literally mean fall as a season? October, November, December... Oh my, I can already hear the people who are eagerly wishing for mod support gasping for air.
I hope it's worth the long wait. Or as we say in Germany: All good beer needs good fermenting. Or something like that...

They mentioned "Finnish Fall" because in previous posts, people were stating that their references to Seasons was unclear because the Northern and Southern Hemispheres have different seasons.
Also, Autumn in the Northern Hemisphere is late-September to late-December.

 

[Reid777]

As a consoler, I will attempt to pre-emptively answer the inevitable question of certain other consolers, based on this quote:

"The work on the console versions is ongoing and while gated by the modding support we’re making progress. We’re not committing to any timelines as there are too many unknowns at this time, but we’ll keep you updated and will communicate the moment we have something to share."

Console Release Update: Changed from Spring to Unknown

At this point probably most sensible decision would be to completely cancel release for current generation consoles.

Considering how the game runs on PC, they would have to do basically miracles to achieve acceptable performance on PS5 or Xbox Series X. In the end game will probably look terrible and become unplayable after reaching 20-30k population.

Anyway, very sad WoW. Getting asset mods maybe a year after release is total disaster. Not unexpected, considering CO pace of work and scale of issues they struggling with. Nonetheless, very, very sad.

 

[co_avanya]

Cheers for the update guys. As someone who has already put out a few maps (please someone stop me, I'm supposed to be working!) I'm a little reticent to make too many more. Im worried I'll have to come back and remake the maps once the editor is officially out... - do you think this is likely to happen? Or will maps already made work fine later when the editor is out?

Also, since its you guys who are making the map editor - perhaps you could give us some advice on how to best use the water tools? I've been learning thru trial and error, I keep thinking I have it figured out, but then my current map is telling me I know nothing.

Cheers M'dears.

AncientSwan

Unfortunately, this isn't something I can answer as we just don't know exactly how the game will handle the maps you have already created. Hopefully, they will work with little to no work needed, but it isn't something we can guarantee. I would recommend not investing more time than you're willing to lose, though things like heightmaps can of course be reimported, so work there wouldn't be lost.

What about performance improvements? I have a city at 700k population that is unplayable and I am running it on a high end system. I’ve tried to submit a report but the saved game file is too large to upload on your website.

Work on performance continues and will likely continue throughout the game's lifetime. We're looking into improvements on the CPU side of things to improve performance for larger cities, but we don't have any massive patch dedicated to performance coming - the improvements will be included in regular patches as they are ready.

I didn't quite understand, will there be another patch besides 1.0.19 before bugfix patches are only released alongside major feature patches? After this next patch, will the next one only be at the end of March with the arrival of the beta version of modding?

We'll have the upcoming patch and then we expect the next one to be alongside the Public Beta for code modding and Paradox Mods. Each patch cycle takes additional time, so batching patches in larger portions allows us to spend more time on the actual fixes and improvements. We'll do our best to bring you the modding update as soon as possible, and everyone is hard at work making sure that patch includes as many bug fixes and improvements as possible.

 

[spider74]

When you sold us the game, you didn't tell us that we'd have to wait over a year to play what we paid for. I bought the deluxe edition for $89.99, and after 4 months, I'm left with a game full of bugs and broken promises.

Now you're saying that DLC and expansions will be released throughout the year... but when? December 2024? I feel kind of scammed by this attitude, and you took my money all at once.

Instead of making fake propaganda, with ratings that are far from reality, why don't you just tell us how things really are? You left us before Christmas with some half-truths, and now they've all turned into uncertainties...

I really hope that the problems are resolved soon, and that you'll stop writing useless things. Like this word of the week, where you already say in the first paragraph that there's nothing new to say from last week...

You've let down a lot of your fans, and I hope this is a wake-up call. I stopped playing CS2 on December 20th because the last patch was also full of problems. When can I play a semi-complete game?

 

[NightWish36]

"Public Beta version of code modding and Paradox Mods will be available in the live build by the end of March"

Are you kidding us ? Not optimized, lot of missing content ! Game is early access !

İf you told us "this game is early access, we are not optimized game, we want 3 months" we arent say anything ! Ruined game, ruined your ıp !

 

[backface]

So the asset mods, including the Creator Packs, aren't going to be available until sometime between March and  Fall? That's astonishing, to be honest, it's gone from "days after release" to almost a year!

Two months has become a whole year...

Specially the content Creator Packs, that as I said time before, some of us already have paid for it on the Ultimate version, and we are still waiting.

Right now, I am so disappointed, specially after this WoW that I will leave the game on hold and come back later. I think it's better than continue following all the news, playing, feeling frustrated and ending leaving the game forever.