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Crusader Kings 3 Dev Diary #75 - In the Event of Court Events

Welcome comrades! In today’s (not at all late shutup SHUTUP) dev diary, we’ll be going over the new court-type event; many of you will likely have seen them a bit already in a few preceding dev diaries, but for the rest, allow me to formally introduce court-type events:
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This new event type is seen exclusively within the court view, where they replace standard character-type events.

We added these because one of the major design limitations with character-type events is that they’re uhh… they’re small. Really, really, really small, and having comparatively little space to work with means they impose a lot of restrictions on their use.

Those of you who mod, or have dabbled at modding, will likely know what I’m talking about: generally, a character event can only fit about three paragraphs of copy and 3-4 options before it starts to look a little naff. Less if there are characters or titles involved with very long names, or if you have to do a lot of paragraphing.

There are good reasons for them to be this small - they get in the way less when popping up, it encourages concise delivery of information, and it frames the portrait characters in each event nicely.

For the court scene, these considerations are (generally) moot, so we wanted to play around with a more liberal event format. We don’t need to worry about framing characters in the traditional sense since we show them in the scene, the player always opts into a court-type event and thus can’t have one pop-up unexpectedly, and though information (and options) still need to be reasonably concise, it’s nice to have a little room to flex the meaning of “concise” somewhat.

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From a player’s perspective, you’ll mostly interact with court-type events through the not-at-all-confusingly-named court events pool. Similar to random yearlies, court events reflect the life of your court just existing, with all the petty drama and courtly intrigue you’d expect from a medieval monarch’s household. They primarily involve characters consistently within your court (rather than far-flung vassals or guests), and often tie into court grandeur and your different levels of amenities.

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Other than their tone, size, and occasional number of options, the biggest differences that players will notice are their usage of different camera shots instead of backgrounds and portraits…

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… and their optional nature. Unlike yearly events, court events are opt-in, meaning that you don’t have to take them if you don’t want to, in which case their default (neutral-ish) option will be selected after a long-ish time-out period.

To open a court event, you simply click on a button that’ll appear floating over one of your court’s relevant characters. Whenever you’ve got court events you could be checking, you’ll be notified via the Royal Court button in the right-hand panel.

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From a scripting perspective, court-type events share a fair amount of DNA with character-type events, but differ mostly in the form of their court_scene block.

Usually, I’d go on to explain everything in a bit more depth inside the dev diary itself, but since court-type events can be tricksy to script till you get the hang of ‘em, we’ve included an example court-type event inside one of the event files that breaks down their make-up:
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^^ Hopefully, this should be a solid annotated example, but just in case, here’s a few pre-emptive clarifications:
1) Every court-type event must have a button character, even if that character is just your character, so that must always be set up.
2) The group parameter defines which spot in the scene that character stands in. These groups themselves are scriptable (with a bit of work) elsewhere, so you can arrange characters inside the court however you like. The groups shown in the example actually contain multiple different preset positions within the court scene, one of which is selected randomly for each event when it tries to fire.
3) For animations, we can access all the standard ones, plus a slew of new animations created specifically for the court scene.

Finally, just for fun, let’s have some more court events:
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Oh, right, yes, I titled the dev diary “and friend” too, didn’t I? Welp, the new court-type isn’t the only event type we’re adding with this expansion (just the most exciting). We also have the new duel event type!

Duels were added as part of our first flavour pack, but I’m sure you’ve all noticed that the space for ‘em is pretty limited, and the animations don’t work so well for this context. Welp, we’ve revamped both of those with this new type, giving duels a face-lift:
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… Naturally, the weapon held by either character does correspond to their signature weapon type, or whatever weapon artefact they have equipped (if they’ve got one).

And that’s all from me, folks. As ever, I’ll be around in the comments for an hour or so to answer questions, but otherwise, see y’all next diary!
 
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I struggle to see how everyone is so hyped for this? £24 to add some random events that dont even make sense in your play through? Am I missing something?
 
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:) Valid; it's on my list of polish things to sort for the duel system (still haven't added cheating!), but not something I've gotten around to yet, I'm afraid.

Depends on the event: generally, when writing events, we try to pick appropriate characters through the trigger block but don't set things up to ensure the copy is definitely 100% accurate, only that it seems accurate at a glance/with a bit of casual digging. Sadly, if we were to track such things, it'd likely merc both save game size and a bit of performance.

Interesting; we might have defaulted a little bit too much to later medieval Iberian architecture, which (at least, IME) tends to have more of a flourish. I'll raise this internally!

:p Funnily enough, there is a follow-up event to this one if you ignore the problem and get unlucky...

:) Lighting, positioning, et al are all WIP. We'll continue adjusting, tweaking, and improving such as we go, but sadly one of the issues with dev diary screenshots is that they mean we're showing unfinished or unpolished work, so it'll rarely look quite as good as the final thing.

I'm afraid that it was insinuated that if I went into details on that, I wouldn't be writing much script any time soon. Rest assured that the parties responsible are have been dealt with. Permanently.

That's uhh... a supervisory horse. Doing. Supervising things. Yeah.

^^' Aggh, yeah, we do need to go through and do more updating of older content for this. Certainly some duels we're happy to keep as prowess checks (essentially anything that doesn't need a full fight), but some could really use the new system. A handful of the new court events do, FWIW, and there's a bit of cultural tradition stuff related to duelling.

:thinking_face: Not as far as I'm aware.

^^' Not my department, I'm afraid. Not that I know of, though.

It's just the UI! The duel system came in with the first flavour pack. :) The UI is, however, free, as was the system.

I've gone into this a little elsewhere, but essentially it's a deliberate design decision not to have overt battlefield events pop up like this, since they get in the way of army movement and, especially in MP, they'd be an active nuisance.
What about SP only battlefield duels? They are pause popups anyhow.
 
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I've gotta say, the more I see of it, the more I'm certain I absolutely despise the court view.

In the base game events and character screens, the character models look great in front of oil paintings which lend the game a classy reserved aesthetic. There's just enough abstraction I feel like there's a scene behind which I'm filling in mentally, but enough going on that it's quite pleasant to look at. It's delicately artful and genuinely lovely to look at.

Taking these SAME character models and dropping them in awkward poses in what's obviously a room inside a video game is three steps backwards and striking your head on a low doorframe. It looks grossly artificial. What works as a pose in front of a painted scene does NOT look natural from multiple angles in what's supposed to be a believable breathing room. An idle animation which looks fine from the front will look bizarre and alien once dropped into a cube with textures painted on each side. You're at the point where you would have to have fully motion-captured people walking around, talking, eating, and using furniture. Furniture covered in uniquely 3D modeled food, silverware, rumpled tablecloths, dribbling candlewax... I don't think that kind of resources will be (or should be) committed to this.

And while yes, this is "in development," what I've seen has utterly failed to convince me any of these rooms are going to look even passably organic once they're done. It's been brought out of the abstracted paintings far enough your instinct is to expect more than empty breathing cycle-animating idle statutes of people, and perfectly-spaced cookie-cutter chairs at right angles on clean flat floors -- but not developed far enough to indulge realism. what's here is jarring. There is no signal to my brain this could possibly be anything but a video game -- a completely different feeling than the oil backdrops which are strangely lovely and evocative. It's being steered into uncanny valley territory.

What's worse, I'm sure it's eating up a huge amount of development time. This is a significant investment in labor which will ultimately make the game look worse. I can't believe this is a landmine this studio is stepping on, either. Throughout the development diaries, a resounding value of CK3 has seemed to be accomplishing more with less. More efficient code. Less cluttered mechanics and UI. The current system for event graphics is exactly in line with getting a huge amount out of relatively little. I'd have expected a few sets of oil paintings of courtrooms of various cultures from different angles, maybe with assignations to have the character models standing around in them (basically just a scaled up version of the sort of thing we see on the title screen). This could functionally accomplish the exact same role as the full 3D being developed for the courtroom, except you could fill the room with the delightful color and clutter and *character* of the events which has become an essential and defining part of the game's aesthetic.

This 3D courtroom view is a travesty. It's off-key. A sour note. A weird chord which is bothersome in an otherwise harmonious progression. It just doesn't fit. And while I'm sure there are going to be people so emotionally invested in CK3 being among their favorite games they'll convince themselves it's alright (or even good depending on their qualifications as emotional acrobats) -- aesthetically, this is wrong. When I look at the title screen, or any event, I get a little dopamine buzz because it's just lovely to look at. These courtroom views have me sucking air through my teeth. The new portrayal in full 3D is more expensive, louder, and weaker by every metric those qualities can be measured.

Paintings with superimposed animated character models would do so much more with less. It would require less from a PC's hardware and fit better with the rest of the game's aesthetic. They would look more organic, and be classier. I don't see the current trajectory having a graceful outcome. It's a horrible thing to consider at this stage -- but what's going on here on the graphical side is bad and should be reconsidered.
Personally, I'm afraid that all these transitions to the courtyard window will make the game stupid even more ... Suffice it to cite the example of the crusade, it quite often happens that when all the participants withdraw their armies, the game turns into a slideshow. It only saves when the crusade ends, and there was even such that the preservation broke because of this, since personally I always play only in the iron man!
 
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Personally, I'm afraid that all these transitions to the courtyard window will make the game stupid even more ... Suffice it to cite the example of the crusade, it quite often happens that when all the participants withdraw their armies, the game turns into a slideshow. It only saves when the crusade ends, and there was even such that the preservation broke because of this, since personally I always play only in the iron man!
I *really* hope the transition to the court scene is smooth and nearly instant, like bringing up an event window. It doesn't take much lag at all to make a UI feel frustrating to interact with. CK3 did a great job making the game start experience feel nearly seamless (at least compared to the eon it took in CK2), so hopefully they're still cognizant of the danger of load times.
 
What's worse, I'm sure it's eating up a huge amount of development time.
I sure hope I am proved wrong, but I tend to agree with @MrButtermancer on this one, especially with the opportunity cost of developing this over something else. The court view seems like a distraction that doesn’t interest me all that much and that could break the flow / cohesion of the game.

Again, I sure hope I am wrong. I just want the best for CK3 (and all of Paradox’s games, for the matter).
 
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Strongly agree with this. The "surprised" pose, which already looks a little stilted in the event view, looks ABYSSMAL in the court scenes. Totally unnatural and out of place.

View attachment 761200

The "folded hands" pose, which looks okay in the event window, looks horrifying from the side.

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I'm sure some of these can be cleaned up a bit...but they need more than a little bit of cleanup. I really think Paradox bit off more than it can chew on this.
While I agree this is an issue, I hope the Royal Court isn't delayed because of simple clipping errors like this which honestly most modern games have to some extent. Graphics don't affect gameplay, and their focus really should move to the gameplay part of CK3 pronto.
 
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I'd have expected a few sets of oil paintings of courtrooms of various cultures from different angles, maybe with assignations to have the character models standing around in them (basically just a scaled up version of the sort of thing we see on the title screen). This could functionally accomplish the exact same role as the full 3D being developed for the courtroom, except you could fill the room with the delightful color and clutter and *character* of the events which has become an essential and defining part of the game's aesthetic.

I agree. CK is never going to be perfectly realistic, but so long as it allows the player to suspend disbelief and rely a little on his or her imagination, that's not so much of an issue. It can even be an asset! Many of CK's best emergent narratives come from a mix of aptly-timed RNG and generous imagination. The more difficult it becomes to suspend disbelief / the less space that's left for our imaginations to fill in the gaps, the more apparent the thinness of the simulation.

I honestly don't understand why they've chosen to go down this needlessly difficult route. Maybe they're trying to build 3D experience for further projects? (VtMB2?) But A$42.95 seems pretty steep for a training project. I would much prefer that the work that went into all this careful 3D modelling went instead into writing events, or better differentiating governments / cultures / religions.
 
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I agree. CK is never going to be perfectly realistic, but so long as it allows the player to suspend disbelief and rely a little on his or her imagination, that's not so much of an issue. It can even be an asset! Many of CK's best emergent narratives come from a mix of aptly-timed RNG and generous imagination. The more difficult it becomes to suspend disbelief / the less space that's left for our imaginations to fill in the gaps, the more apparent the thinness of the simulation.

I honestly don't understand why they've chosen to go down this needlessly difficult route. Maybe they're trying to build 3D experience for further projects? (VtMB2?) But A$42.95 seems pretty steep for a training project. I would much prefer that the work that went into all this careful 3D modelling went instead into writing events, or better differentiating governments / cultures / religions.
Good news... Your $42 is going on all of those things.
 
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uncanny valley

I've been in denial for weeks, but this dev diary + Mr. Buttermancer's post made me accept it. And the rooms too! I was hoping for that haunting grandeur of the intro throne rooms:

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Instead we get this doll cabinet:

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I literally refused to buy Civ 6 because it felt too "doll-house-y".

I agree with Buttermancer. They can go ALL IN at this point or stick to the oil style. (fwiw i'm a hopeless romantic who votes all-in: textures, clutter, movement and unnecessary palm fanning)
 
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uncanny valley

I've been in denial for weeks, but this dev diary + Mr. Buttermancer's post made me accept it. And the rooms too! I was hoping for that haunting grandeur of the intro throne rooms:

lhipu7cdzul51.jpg


Instead we get this doll cabinet:

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I literally refused to buy Civ 6 because it felt too "doll-house-y".

I agree with Buttermancer. They can go ALL IN at this point or stick to the oil style. (fwiw i'm a hopeless romantic who votes all-in: textures, clutter, movement and unnecessary palm fanning)
You mean you dont like mobile free to play games graphical style???
 
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The more I see of the 3d court the more I dislike it. The graphics are terrible Im sad to say. For all the time we will spend in the court view I dont think this has been cost effective at all.

Im hoping that someone just mods the new events into the event windows we are familiar with to cut out these throne rooms. Or at least make them part of the DLC so I don't have to buy it.
 
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I struggle to see how everyone is so hyped for this? £24 to add some random events that dont even make sense in your play through? Am I missing something?

I don't think Royal Court is gonna perfect (and that's okay!). But I'm very excited because I think it's the start of something. It combines two very different POV's in one game.

Most of the games I've played...... city builders, CK3, EU4, Civ5..... are all like this:

Overhead pull-out third-person (god view) in SIMCITY 3000 Unlimited.
Many strategy video games, drawing on earlier ludic strategy models like chess and GO, have the player operate as an all-seeing force on the world; hence the term 'god’s-eye view.' The SIMCITY strategy design illustrates the god’s-eye view by allowing the player to see everything that exists in the game world at any given time. (Image from: Maxis (EA). SIMCITY 3000 Unlimited. Redwood City, CA: Maxis (EA), 2000.)

I love these games for what they are. Don't get me wrong.

But there's always those moments... staring down at my creations.... where I think: if only I could play INSIDE of that... how lucky those pedestrians are! Always the architect; never the resident.

What does Royal Court bring?

I know I know. At the moment it's like a glorified cosmetic pack. Like, do we really need a 3D room to receive a couple messages? Not necessarily. But down the road? "Interior" perspectives offer possibilities that a God View doesn't.

You could explore rooms, search for mysterious objects in libraries/armories (home and abroad), choose who to talk to, arrange dinner guests to honor or humiliate them, set standards of dress and protocol (affecting budgets and cultural opinions), gain access (or lose access) to rooms and spaces where plots and swaying and seduction can occur :cool:, and... though it may not be your top priority... DECORATE... in ways that honor certain cultures/values so as to signal your beliefs and stances as a ruler

And I'm not the only one thinking this way. Check out this dude's Tavern mods:

a bit redundant, but here's an older wish-list of mine: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...-courtly-fashion.1489882/page-4#post-27778390
 
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