Hello again folks!

This diary will be a bit on the short side due to the frenzy at the office this week, but since it recently came up on the forum, I thought I'd say a little bit about regnal numbers. One of the nice little touches in Europa Universalis III (and its predecessors) is that kings have proper regnal numbers. This feature was missing from the original Crusader Kings, but I am pleased to announce that it will be fully implemented in Crusader Kings II. The way it works is that the first names of actual scripted holders in the character database are counted for each landed title at game start. Regnal numbers are only displayed for Dukes and above, which includes the Pope (a kingdom tier title.) The Holy Father, however, is a bit special in that he changes name on accession. So, a character named, say, Étienne Aubert could get the name Innocent VI if he became Pope.



Somewhat related to regnal numbers is the state of a character at the time of death. In Crusader Kings II, you can browse back through dead characters and see exactly which titles they held and what regnal number they had. I'll leave you with some extra screenshots while you're waiting for the next dev diary, which will be about our beautiful new map. Failing unexpected delays, it should be posted on february 4.




Henrik Fåhraeus, Associate Producer and CKII Project Lead

 

[I Killed Kenny]

I hear that before >_>

 

[unmerged(174860)]

k fine date of out? MMXII?

au revoir et bonne chance!

 

[heraklonas]

regnal nrs very bad idea

fairly nobody used regnal number in the middle ages. like in antiquity, persons ofsame name were differentiated by epithets, like "the younger", "the wise"..etc. regnal numbers are ahistorical and 2nd, make additional problems like henry III of navarra and henry IV of france being the same person. this cant be represented when it comes to somebody who has 20 titles.

 

[Woody Man]

fairly nobody used regnal number in the middle ages. like in antiquity, persons ofsame name were differentiated by epithets, like "the younger", "the wise"..etc. regnal numbers are ahistorical and 2nd, make additional problems like henry III of navarra and henry IV of france being the same person. this cant be represented when it comes to somebody who has 20 titles.

Regnal numbers were used, and different regnal numbers for different titles of the same person are being used in game.

 

[Caranorn]

Regnal numbers were used, and different regnal numbers for different titles of the same person are being used in game.

Where? When? Who? As far as I can remember I haven't come across any in medieval charters...

 

[heraklonas]

Regnal numbers were used, and different regnal numbers for different titles of the same person are being used in game.

cause i dont wanna waste time on this, here is wiki (Monarchical ordinal)

Ordinals for monarchs before 13th century are actually anachronisms, as are also ordinals for almost all later medieval monarchs.
Popes were apparently the first to assume official ordinals for their reigns, although this occurred only in last centuries of the Middle Ages.

from my own studies of medieval ducuments i can confirm this.

additionaly, there isno first aslong as there is no second.

 

[unmerged(157596)]

Regnal numbers were used, and different regnal numbers for different titles of the same person are being used in game.

Wheher or not ordinals were used seem to have varied.
At least the Scandinavians didn't use them before the end of the union of Kalmar (even tho Eric the Lame of Sweden styled himself himself Eric the Third), since they included the patronym or a widely known epithet when indicating a particular Eric or Harald.
If Wikipedia is to be trusted, most of Europe didn't use them untill the 13th century, but I'm not going to whine if ordinals are used before this ingame.

 

[Woody Man]

Where? When? Who? As far as I can remember I haven't come across any in medieval charters...

Various Chronicles in England use so so the 3rd of that name since the conquest.

Ex.

Henricus Primus

Anglo-Saxon Kings did not use numbers though.

 

[heraklonas]

thats not medieval..looks like 17th cent

 

[Woody Man]

thats not medieval..looks like 17th cent

It is one of Matthew Paris' illuminations.

I will freely admit I'm not an expert here, but I think ordinals saw enough use during the game period to actually have it in game.

 

[heraklonas]

i dont have seen this MS, but it looks odd to me, comparising itwith other illustrations in it. the colors are post-renaissance and the type of writing not medieval. anyhow

 

[the_hdk]

not everything is to be about to recreate medieval world.

There will be regal numbers because they are awesome and 90% of teh players of ck1 missed them if not more.
same as with byzantine empire nobody called it byzantine at the time.

so you can stop bickering and trolling. they are in because most of ck1 players missed them.

 

[Rysz]

Did they use computers in medieval times? Did they have a limit of 8 settlements per county? Did everyone have portraits that looked like "they draw them themselves"?

No, no, no

I don't care whether the people in medieval times used regnal numbers. We, being 20th/21st century citizens, are used to people in our history having them, and that justifies enough for having them in the game. It makes it easier for us to relate to the game, and recognize the various characters in the game. I'm very glad they have put regnal numbers in the game.

edit: great to see we think alike hdk

 

[Seli]

Thanks for the diary.
Ordinal numbers might not be exactly from the period, but nowadays we use them to describe it and it has this nice royal feel to it. So it fits in the atmosphere of the game and it helps with organization and quick overview, for which epithets -however much I'd like them in the game as well- are less suited.

 

[LordofSaxony]

not everything is to be about to recreate medieval world.

There will be regal numbers because they are awesome and 90% of teh players of ck1 missed them if not more.
same as with byzantine empire nobody called it byzantine at the time.

so you can stop bickering and trolling. they are in because most of ck1 players missed them.

This.

It's something that I wanted to see in CK1, and I'm very glad that it's being included in CK2.

 

[the_hdk]

Did they use computers in medieval times? Did they have a limit of 8 settlements per county? Did everyone have portraits that looked like "they draw them themselves"?

No, no, no

I don't care whether the people in medieval times used regnal numbers. We, being 20th/21st century citizens, are used to people in our history having them, and that justifies enough for having them in the game. It makes it easier for us to relate to the game, and recognize the various characters in the game. I'm very glad they have put regnal numbers in the game.

edit: great to see we think alike hdk

indeed

 

[Woody Man]

Did they use computers in medieval times? Did they have a limit of 8 settlements per county? Did everyone have portraits that looked like "they draw them themselves"?

No, no, no

I don't care whether the people in medieval times used regnal numbers. We, being 20th/21st century citizens, are used to people in our history having them, and that justifies enough for having them in the game. It makes it easier for us to relate to the game, and recognize the various characters in the game. I'm very glad they have put regnal numbers in the game.

edit: great to see we think alike hdk

Thumbs up

 

[Orinsul]

surprised to see the number attacthed to the name and not the title, but from the screenshots everythings looking brilliant!
and it'll mean less to keep track of in a handy notebook if the games keeping a record too.

 

[Ruwaard]

surprised to see the number attacthed to the name and not the title, but from the screenshots everythings looking brilliant!
and it'll mean less to keep track of in a handy notebook if the games keeping a record too.

Well attaching numbers to the name is common practice in case of kings (a Royal title, but it also applies to an imperial title). I know that in Britain numbers of noble titles are attached to the title (and that they restart counting with each new creation); in the other parts of Europe it was also common to attach numbers to the names of (high) nobles (like dukes and counts (and marquesses, margraves, landgraves etc.)). (and they continued counting).

 

[Orinsul]

I was expecting it to be along the lines of you hover the mouse over the title King of such and such and it says Yourname the Number.
So that kings of many places could be at once Henry III, Henry VI and Henry I. but maybe that would be overly complicating things. And handy on becoming Emperor as youd need another number for that too. But probably itd take too much the computer to keep track of all that for every title and make the save files longer than the nile.

I think the number for minor titles is people to hold that title not people with that name to hold that title no? or maybe thats just in england or just recently possibly. The 8th baronet of small village, or ninth baron somevalleysomewhere. Reckoning from the first to hold the current incarnation of the title, rather than first with your christian name.