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Hello everyone, I'm Tegus, one of the programmers working on Crusader
Kings II. Welcome to the fifth dev diary for CK2 and the first one written
by me. In today's dev diary I'm going to talk a bit about the map and why
we've chosen to implement a new one in CK2.

As you all know, in our games the map is an important tool for both
displaying information and setting the mood of the game. In HoI3 we had a
grayish map that we felt was appropriate for a war game. We took this map
and altered it slightly when making Victoria 2, but this time the map was
drawn with vivid colors to portray the progress of the era. The next game to
use the map was Divine Wind because we all felt that EU3 was in need of a
graphical face lift. While this map technology looked good in the
mentioned games, there were certain technological limitations which we
wanted to improve upon or get rid of.

With CK2, we have devoted time to rewrite the graphics code for the map
from scratch. We are back to a pure 3D map similar to the one used in EU3:
Rome. We have visible topology and you will be able to rotate the world
around the way you please. While neither the technology nor the art assets
are in any way final, we do feel that the new map already has great
potential and is a big step in the right direction towards our visual
goals. Hopefully this new tech will also span multiple games, so we
can steadily improve it.

crusader_kings_2_devdiary_5_ss1.jpg

To be fair, if I would describe what we have done with the map so far, it
would just be sentence after sentence of technical mumbo-jumbo, so I'll
spare you the details. Let's instead focus on what visual details that
have been improved and what we want to add before the game is shipped.

We've improved the looks of the water significantly and added refraction
so you can actually see topology under the ocean surface. Aerie has taken
the time to find real-world topology data(although we've exaggerated it
somewhat), it definitely gives a cool feel to the terrain. Borders have
also gotten some love and now use a new system which enables us to make
them much smoother. Much of the previous jaggedness is gone. We've also
begun to implement and test a more detailed lighting model, which we will
continue to improve upon until we release the game. Another cool
feature(which isn't really part of the map) are the units, whose tabards
now show the heraldic flag of the unit leader.

crusader_kings_2_devdiary_5_ss2.jpg

But there are still some things which we're missing. We need trees and
rivers. We need to add province names and realm names, which exist in all
our latest games. I'd like to add more information to borders, so borders
between two realms are colored by the realms' respective colors. There are
of course lots of more things we want to do, but I won't spill the beans
just yet.

crusader_kings_2_devdiary_5_ss3.jpg

All in all, we are very happy with the way the new map is coming along.
Hopefully you will enjoy it as well once you get to play the game!

Fredrik Zetterman, Deluxe programmer, currently working on Crusader Kings
II
 
Map looks ok, i guess its too early to judge, at least until rivers are added, cuz i think they gonna add a lot of detail.

I really do hope you guys will improve those unit 3D models, cuz to be honest i dont really like them. They dont look "medievalish" or something (could be the weird leg position or whatever). Also you might wanna add some shield shape variety, or even bring some of the heraldics to show up on shields. More helmet variety wouldnt hurt either, i know great helmets are cool and all that, but there were so many other helmet types, even a simple mail coif doesnt look bad. While im at it, please dont make all models all over the world wield swords, cuz if i understand this correctly, swords were not very common weapons, there should be some spears etc.

Honestly just fire Mount & Blade (even vanilla one) if you lack inspiration cuz i think i could probably draw like a dozen of better looking soldiers in a few hours and im not artist at all (making 3D models is a whole different thing though).
 
Will there be a selectable option to view the map in 2D? My graphics card from 2006 can't even handle EU Rome's 3D, and in any case I've never liked 3D maps. They take far too long to load and far too much memory to process, and they break immersion (a ruler in medieval times would never have visualised, much less actually seen before him, a map of his realm in 3 dimensions). All this for no tangible benefit.
 
Will there be a selectable option to view the map in 2D? My graphics card from 2006 can't even handle EU Rome's 3D, and in any case I've never liked 3D maps. They take far too long to load and far too much memory to process, and they break immersion (a ruler in medieval times would never have visualised, much less actually seen before him, a map of his realm in 3 dimensions). All this for no tangible benefit.

I sympathize. There is a 2D mod for EU3, so I'm sure that it would be possible in CK2, though not quite as pretty as the 3D. But we can mod to our hearts' content.
 
If any developer or tester still reads this old DD, I have a little question: let's take you are an independent simple count, ruling over a province named Södermanland with your capital at a settlement called Stockholm... are you the count of Södermanland, or the count of Stockholm?

:)
 
If any developer or tester still reads this old DD, I have a little question: let's take you are an independent simple count, ruling over a province named Södermanland with your capital at a settlement called Stockholm... are you the count of Södermanland, or the count of Stockholm?

I would think you would be the Count of Södermanland and the Baron of Stockholm.
< - Not on team CK though!
 
If any developer or tester still reads this old DD, I have a little question: let's take you are an independent simple count, ruling over a province named Södermanland with your capital at a settlement called Stockholm... are you the count of Södermanland, or the count of Stockholm?

:)
Since the title for a settlement is a baron title, the count title would take precedence in this case and you would be called Count of Södermanland.

However, if you were to hold two count-titles, say Södermanland and Uppland, you would be called Count of Uppland if your capital settlement was there and Count of Södermanland otherwise.
 
I would say the person you endow with a city barony would become mayor. A funny situation will arise if you as a secular noble obtain (most likely through revocation or conquest) a county which has a church barony as its capital, since the result would be that you become a prince-bishop.
 
I would say the person you endow with a city barony would become mayor. A funny situation will arise if you as a secular noble obtain (most likely through revocation or conquest) a county which has a church barony as its capital, since the result would be that you become a prince-bishop.

I think that there will be work around, either you will have to appoint an abbot or you can become a vogt of that abbey or bishopric. Like count Lambert I of Leuven (ancestor of the dukes of Brabant from the house of Brabant (Reginar)), who was vogt of the abbeys of Nijvel and Gembloers.
However you won't be elected as prince-bishop, although you should be in the perfect position to make a favorite priest bishop.

Or just as in CK 1, it is possible to turn the bishopric in a county, which I imagine might involve a change in the province capital barony.
 
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hehhe

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almoravid_dynasty
"There has been a belief by some that the Almoravids conquered the Ghana Empire sometime around 1075 AD. According to Arab tradition, the ensuing war pushed Ghana over the edge,"... yeah, clearly pushed the ghanans over the edge of the map :D

Anyways, think thats where i will place my lil crusaderkingdom, all of africa, west, north and egypt & horn. With the sahara as the hearth of the kingdom, and suitable place of exile for heretics :p
 
Again on the map, more or less...

1- to create a duchy or a kingdom the player must own at leat 66% of the predefined provinces layout for that duchy/kingdom, like in CK1?
2- can anyone clarify the province settlement setup?
2a- let's say you are an independent count (baron of Milan, count of Lombardy): every other settlement (if any) in Lombardy will be your vassal, or I can start the game as the baron of Brescia, in Lombardy but not subject to Milan (or even subject to another ruler, say, the King of Sicily)?
2b- strictly related to the previous question, how many settlements are playable in a single province? I mean: if the count of Lombardy is the baron of Milan, can you play as the baron of Milan/count of Lombardy only, or I can start the campaign as the baron of Brescia, subject of Milan/Lombardy?

Thank you :D
 
Barons are not playable, you need to be at least a count.
 
1 - we may safely assume.

2 - In each province (county) there are 2-8 settlements (baronies).
The #1 settlement is always a Castle, and the baron of this Castle and the Count of the province always have to be the same person.

2a - If you are the Duke of Lombardy, all counties and baronies are a member of your de jure duchy. Thus I assume you have a CB on them if they go independent (only counts, as barons cannot) to restore them to your vassals. So unless your realm falls apart quickly, you will be able to get it under your heels.

Related - the natural state of the hierarchy will be to include the lords between, so the Barons should be the vassals of their Count as opposed to be directly owned by the Duke. Firstly to prevent from Counts (and Dukes one level up) becoming powerless, and to prevent petty lords from being able to declare independence (by war, as independence wars can only be started by characters against their direct liege who must be independent himself).

2b - Up to 8, if that was your question. A single province can consist of maximum 8 settlements (and always has at least 2, the first being a Castle).
 
Wow. I finally made it. All27 Pages. What a mess.

I think the bullying about the map and 2D vs 3D not only rooted in worries of distraction by flying around the map
instead of watching from the marshalls top.

Actually i think it was the zoom level in the first three pictures in the very first post and the others ones later on were
pretty close zoomed to the map as well.

The Knights picture for instance had huge knights kinda like attacking the viewer and the picture was overloaded as well.

So there was an emotional shock to a Grand Marshall kind of strategy player in contrary to the tactics views of player
who grew up with 3d and used to fight battles instead of wars.
So emotional shock added with different habits playing games.

Strategists vs Tacticians :ninja:

What an emotional senseless debate. Cute somehow. :D

BTW: I liked the atmpspheric wanna be 3D of Knights of Honor along with the music and the neat, romantic strategic view
and the clouds...and the Mods of course.

OOps, there you go. It had strategy and tactics when you fought battles. Sighhh...
 
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