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It's Wednesday, and time to answer some questions about the upcoming DLC for Crusader Kings II; Legacy of Rome. The focus of this mini-expansion is going to be the Byzantine Empire and the Orthodox church. First off, in order to clear up any confusion from the original announcement, it's a bit smaller in scope than the Sword of Islam so the price is set at $5.99. While I say it's smaller in scope, if you include all the stuff we're adding for free in the accompanying patch (v1.07) it's probably about the same size as SoI and v1.06.

So, let's take a look at what's in the DLC and what's in patch 1.07...

LEGACY OF ROME DLC

  • Retinue system. If you don't have the DLC, you won't see the new interface and you cannot hire retinues (and neither will the AI.) The technology that controls the max size of your retinue and relative decrease of normal levy sizes simply does not have this effect without the DLC.
  • Orthodox Councillor models
  • Major Decisions for the Byzantine Empire
  • Byzantine Events

Oh, and we're taking another tack with the DLC this around - if you don't own the DLC, the AI won't be using the new mechanics or events either. Also, from now on in multiplayer mode, the host will control which DLCs are active.

PATCH 1.07


  • Faction system. Replaces many existing plots and normal revolt mechanics with factions.
  • Personal Improvement Ambitions
  • Orthodox Patriarch system
  • Have both a Plot and an Ambition at the same time
  • Revised levy raising. (You raise a single, large levy from each direct vassal. The opinions of vassals of vassals are irrelevant.)
  • Leader Focus on Combat
  • More Cultural Buildings
  • Improved AI
  • Bug fixes (of course)

I will talk about all these features in detail in upcoming dev diaries, but for now, that's all!
 
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NewbieOne said:
While getting more cultural buildings in place, please fix the Hussars for Poland, they didn't really count until 16th century in our army and didn't really count anywhere until 15th. We and everybody else in the Slavic word had druzhina, which was basically a sort of noble bodyguard/retinue.
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Its only the silly name that's anachronistic. The Polish Hussars were heavy cavalry, the hussar building gives you light cavalry but makes them heavier. Problem is that the Russian druzhina in the base game reduced cavalry, which makes no sense for Polish druzhina (doesn't make that much sense for russians either but it worse for Poland) and they didn't want two opposite effect buildings to have the same name (or two variants of the same route word).

Druzhina were as you say retinues, as were huscarls. Longbowmen and the pike trio (Scot/Dutch/Italian) are the only European cultural building that gives something that was actually a levy. So they have to tie levies into these buildings somehow. Retinues have been stated to be tied to tech, Russia has the worst tech. So maybe Druzhina buildings will allow Russians to get around their low tech and have large retinues in spite of it.
 
YES, plots and ambitions are not mutually exclusive anymore.
ALL of my money, just take it.
 
Wonderful news on the patch/DLC. I was wondering how they would deal with people not having the DLC.

Am I the only one who thinks that cultural buildings feel like a tacked on system, as well as a trap for new players?

Phelan said:
I second this. Constantinople was not just a city in the empire. Just like Rome it was the cultural and political center. Imagine the west roman empire ruled from a spanish province city.
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I ran into the same issue in my mod. I ended up just railroading an event which grants Byzantium to the emperor if one of his vassals hold it (which 99.9% of the time happens if the current holder has just been deposed as Emperor).


LordNeidhart said:
YES, plots and ambitions are not mutually exclusive anymore.
ALL of my money, just take it.
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This worries me. Currently one way to keep the plotting down to reasonable levels via mods is to give people ambitions instead, which may have just become harder.
 
Laur said:
One of the things that bothers me most in CK2 is seeing the capital of the Eastern Roman Empire changing location following one of the many civil wars that beset the Empire. Thus, Constantinople becomes the residence of a small count (the former Emperor) and the (new) Emperor finds himself/herself residing somewhere in Vidin, Tyrnovo, Amisos or Dvin, never to return to the Queen of the Cities. Historically, a civil war for the imperial crown did not depend on warscore but on the capacity of the pretender to enter Constantinople and have himself crowned in the Hagia Sophia. Thus, I would like to see this reflected in the game play, either through events or through a permanent cassus-belli and a loss of prestige for the pretender for every month he/she does not control the city.
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Just want to say this is basically what I was complaining about before. A Byzantine DLC should add Byzantine gameplay, even if it is just minor. A change to civil war in the Byzantine Empire so that usurping the Byzantine Empire Title requires occupation of Constantinople, and upon victory grants Constantinople to the victor and imprisons the previous Emperor, just that would add a lot to playing the Byzantines. As is it sounds like the additions will be purely cosmetic and you'll still be playing the Byzantines just as you would the HRE.
 
First of all, these #0 teaser dev diaries are killing me!

Second, it might be too late to make this suggestion, but I've been making it almost since release date. Since you're working on the levy system, perhaps now would be a good time to consider it: When you have levies selection, I'd love to see an 'embark all' button, whereby every levy you have selected that can board a ship will do so. At the moment, when you raise a massive number of levies, you have to individually order each levy to board a ship, which is a huge pain in the neck. This is particularly useful for the Byzantines, the focus of this DLC, who have probably the longest coast-to-county ratio in the game.

And yes, this does seem to be somewhat mitigated by the condensing of levies into larger armies, but I still think it would be a very useful feature.
 
I am looking forward to a more organized, automated manner of gathering all your troops. Because right now, when I declare wars, the first thing I have to do is to group all the fleets and send them out to sea, then gather all the troops either into the boats or, on land, march people into big stacks -- but not too big -- because you don't want everyone dying from attrition on the way to the battle, yada, yada, yada. It gets tedious with literally hundreds of units. I scroll through the list of ships to make sure they're all in motion. And then I make sure I have done the same with all the armies.

In a way, I wish there were general orders you could give: "Take Jerusalem!" or "March on France!" and trust the AI to not be an idiot about it. But I watch how the AI powers prosecute wars against each other, and I realize that it is still rather feeble.

I'm wondering if there is something odd in scale and scope. At the beginning of the game, I understand that armies are supposed to be small. But near the end, there's something crazy going on in terms of military size. My total military is *huge* now. 1430 feels more like 1940 (World War II-ish), than medieval. For instance, I can currently raise 800K out of a potential 950K troops.

Yes, my empire is big and scattered everywhere, from Britannia to Mali, from the White Sea to the Persian Gulf. So it is quite odd right now, that the empire mobilizes down to every last man entirely *in one day*.

One would hope that, wherever your capital was, a declaration of war might require more preparation and mustering, and you'd see the word spread out from the capital.

Aside from that sort of centrally-controlled thing, I wish there was a way for your vassals to have more border skirmishes with your neighbors that would be sub-wars. Punitive raids and taking hostages, etc. They could escalate into the sort of thing that brings in the central ruler. "Sire! We need your assistance!"

Conversely, I wish there were more diplomatic strategies. For instance a way for a ruler to help settle disputes between their subjects or with neighbors. How you adjudicate decisions could win you prestige and admiration, or cause even greater consternation amongst your subjects or factions. After all, wasn't it the way Harold had been captured on the Continent -- and how William paid the ransom of Harold Godwinson -- that bolstered the Norman claim to the throne, and how Edward ruled against Tostig in his dispossession of Northumbria in 1065 that precipitated the whole 1066 debacle?

It would be nice to also have "adoption of heirs" and more claims on entire kingdoms -- right now, this whole military "take England one province at a time" thing is really tedious, and that's not what happened in 1066. It took decades to militarily get half of England, one fraudulent claim over a county at a time. But once half-way, I found it simpler to just back elective monarchy, got nominated for the position then assassinated the current ruler. >.>

I wish there were more diplomatic, economic and scientific endeavors to focus on than just moving huge stacks of armies around. A lot of my recent wars boil down to this: muster & embark (takes up the bulk of the time), gather off the enemy coast, land with 100k+ troops, assault, assault, assault, go to the next province, assault, assault, assault (combat takes about 5 minutes in total) -- and accept surrender.

I am looking forward to see what this DLC will add to the game. But I think there's still a "big change" that needs to happen with a more expansive upgrade in the future to really make this game totally awesome.
 
I like most of your points, but the kingdom claim one and the first one about troop gathering. The kingdom claim one contradicts itself and for troop gathering, well it seems some people dont use shortcuts.
Without them its tedious, but if you use shortcuts it becomes rather simple. Select all with mouse and use a key like the key -G- for combining or do you actually use that ?:huh:

PeterCorless said:
I am looking forward to a more organized, automated manner of gathering all your troops. Because right now, when I declare wars, the first thing I have to do is to group all the fleets and send them out to sea, then gather all the troops either into the boats or, on land, march people into big stacks -- but not too big -- because you don't want everyone dying from attrition on the way to the battle, yada, yada, yada. It gets tedious with literally hundreds of units. I scroll through the list of ships to make sure they're all in motion. And then I make sure I have done the same with all the armies.
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Zoston said:
Just want to say this is basically what I was complaining about before. A Byzantine DLC should add Byzantine gameplay, even if it is just minor. A change to civil war in the Byzantine Empire so that usurping the Byzantine Empire Title requires occupation of Constantinople, and upon victory grants Constantinople to the victor and imprisons the previous Emperor, just that would add a lot to playing the Byzantines. As is it sounds like the additions will be purely cosmetic and you'll still be playing the Byzantines just as you would the HRE.
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Agreed.

I'm still looking forward to the DLC, but I would like to see Byzantine politics manifested a bit more... differently. At the very least, there shouldn't be a gazillion wars of independence in the Byzantine Empire, but rather groups of nobles supporting one to become the new Emperor in whatever circumstances.
 
cybrxkhan said:
Agreed.

I'm still looking forward to the DLC, but I would like to see Byzantine politics manifested a bit more... differently. At the very least, there shouldn't be a gazillion wars of independence in the Byzantine Empire, but rather groups of nobles supporting one to become the new Emperor in whatever circumstances.
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Armenians and Slavs should be the only ones caring about independence. Greeks did become independent (like Cyprus before the third crusade) but in that case they were pretenders claiming to be the true emperor.
 
cybrxkhan said:
Agreed.

I'm still looking forward to the DLC, but I would like to see Byzantine politics manifested a bit more... differently. At the very least, there shouldn't be a gazillion wars of independence in the Byzantine Empire, but rather groups of nobles supporting one to become the new Emperor in whatever circumstances.
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Well, it's hard to represent with current feudal system. And I doubt there will be a second Byzantium expansion. So we're stuck with what we have.

By the way, I heard Sword of Islam changed Byzantium politics so that you don't need any reason to take a title from a ruler. Is that right? Looks like a solution to a problem if ruler knows emperor has right to take his lands away. In barbaric catholic Europe you can lose civil war and still have your lands.
 
Constantinople was Unique. i don't see why rebels would change the capital.plus :p i'd absolutely love to have a new interface for byzantium, tyrian purple :) those things would defenitely make playing as the byzantines epic and unique.
 
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