• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Well, what do you know? It's Legacy of Rome dev diary day again! Today's topics are Liege Levies and Retinues.

In patch v1.07, you raise fewer, larger levies from your direct vassals (we call these "Liege Levies" for lack of a better term.) These levies are now handled separately from actual Holding levies; you only get regular holding levies from your own Demesne. The opinions of vassals of vassals are thus now mostly irrelevant; you only need to worry about the opinions of your direct vassals. Another benefit is that you don't get tiny little armies all over the place when you mobilize your realm. Liege levies also fix a fundamental balancing flaw in that you can no longer just keep raising little levies from all vassals as a war drags on (due to the portion of holding levies that was reserved for the liege.) The new Liege Levies do not reinforce at home while raised.

LoR_02_Liege_Levies.jpg

That's it for Liege Levies. Now, the concept of Retinues should be familiar to those of you who have played Sengoku. Basically, Retinues are your household guard; your elite core of professional soldiers. At the start of the game, most rulers are not able to employ Retinues, but it becomes possible as their total manpower (based on all the levies in their realm) and average Military Organization (a new technology) level increase. Over time, the Retinues turn into proper standing armies. The downside is that, as your Retinue capacity increases, your normal levies decrease in size. However, even at max tech, levies will still account for the majority of your armies.

There are many types of Retinues available for hire - including several unique cultural variants - though they always come in 500-man regiments with a commander of your own culture. Retinues reinforce in the field, like mercenaries, and when you first hire them, they start with 1 man. Unlike armies in other games, for example Europa Universalis, Retinues only cost maintenance while they reinforce. You are of course allowed to declare war even if you have Retinues (which are always standing on the map.)

LoR_02_Cataphract_Retinue.jpg

So, why did we choose to add the Retinue system to the DLC? Why should you spend $6 on Legacy of Rome rather than a Latte and a slice of cake? There are many reasons, including these:

  • Retinues make arranging your flanks and balancing your armies far more tactical
  • Having a dependable standing army ready is strategically preferable
  • They fit nicely into the overall military system in patch v1.07 with Liege Levies, etc
  • History saw levy based militaries transform gradually into more professional forces

LoR_02_New_Retinue.jpg

I should mention again that the whole Retinue mechanic requires that you own the DLC; if you don't, the new Retinue tab will be grayed out in the military view and the AI will not use Retinues either. However, if the host in a multiplayer game owns the DLC, all players will be able to use Retinues.

I think that will do it for today. Next week, I plan to talk about the new Leader traits and cultural buildings. Until then!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Only if it includes Africans.

I just want the Greeks. If there are others, that's cool, but Greeks are worth the price of admission for me. :p

(I'm biased, of course).
 
Do i see new portraits for the greeks? :)

Those are part of a separate portrait DLC that's in development, they will not be part of Legacy of Rome.
 
So your levies will get smaller, and your retinue greater over the course of the game? What will that mean for a large empire? That retinues are bad because it makes their army smaller?
 
Those are part of a separate portrait DLC that's in development, they will not be part of Legacy of Rome.
That is so damn tight, though. A DLC focusing on the Byzantines, but you have to buy another one to get them to look like Byzantines?
 
Retinues make arranging your flanks and balancing your armies far more tactical

Yay! This will mean that what troop combinations are in which flanks will start having serious effects. The big question is will the AI know how to divide its troops into flanks or will it just hit the "spread evenly" button.
 
Rest assured, there will be beards : ) As you can see on picture three, there's actually a guy with a beard there : D And there will be several variations : )

Yes, we've made a lot of different beards for them, so don't worry :)

Great! Thanks for the response, just what i expected from your awesomeness. :)
 
Those greeks look so weird now :/
 
Those are part of a separate portrait DLC that's in development, they will not be part of Legacy of Rome.

yeah but LoR + portrait pack will probably still cost less than SoI.
 
That is so damn tight, though. A DLC focusing on the Byzantines, but you have to buy another one to get them to look like Byzantines?

First of all, these new faces are not limited to Byzantine/Greek characters alone and they were never a part of the original Legacy of Rome DLC plan to begin with. This is the separate work of the talented artists at Paradox South, and they are an entirely optional graphical addition to the game for those who want it. It's not a question of us taking something out of the DLC and deciding to sell it on its own in a bid to make more cash. In fact, we did the exact opposite with the Factions system which we took out of the DLC and included with the free upcoming patch.

Considering the amount of free content that will be in the patch and the fact that Legacy of Rome is only $6, I don't think we're being tight.
 
I have a few questions as someone who has not played Sengoku. Firstly, as stated in the Dev diaries, Your normal Demense levies size decrease greater than your Retinue size increase, does this mean that your retinue is substantially stronger in terms of 'combat damage and morale'?

2nd, Retinues for hire, do you Have to hire them or do you start with them. Lets say i am Duke so and so of somewhere not important. Do i have to hire retinues to create a seed and slowly grow them or do they just function as levies? This is regarding the cultural variants mentioned

3rd can you customise your retinues? So for example i want a pure heavy cavalry retinue as France to steam-roll my enemy or are they set in a certain pattern so x number of this soldier type, y number of that etc.

4th reinforcing them costs maintainance while demense levies cost nothing. Does this mean that if for example your entire retinue gets wiped out and you have to rebuild it, you can actually bankrupt yourself in the sheer cost?

Thanks for any answers
 
I have a few questions as someone who has not played Sengoku. Firstly, as stated in the Dev diaries, Your normal Demense levies size decrease greater than your Retinue size increase, does this mean that your retinue is substantially stronger in terms of 'combat damage and morale'?

2nd, Retinues for hire, do you Have to hire them or do you start with them. Lets say i am Duke so and so of somewhere not important. Do i have to hire retinues to create a seed and slowly grow them or do they just function as levies? This is regarding the cultural variants mentioned

3rd can you customise your retinues? So for example i want a pure heavy cavalry retinue as France to steam-roll my enemy or are they set in a certain pattern so x number of this soldier type, y number of that etc.

4th reinforcing them costs maintainance while demense levies cost nothing. Does this mean that if for example your entire retinue gets wiped out and you have to rebuild it, you can actually bankrupt yourself in the sheer cost?

Thanks for any answers

1&3) Based on the discussion so far, they are stronger since you can customize what exactly you want to place in them (e.g. make an all heavy cav retinue for all you want, and rename it as the Frankish Bulldozers if you wish). This is opposed to the relatively inflexible levies wherein building types determine unit composition via addition only (which means one fully upgraded holding's levies from one culture is exactly the same with that of another, barring the martial stat of marshals)

2) Based on the screenies and previous sengoku experience and some extrapolation, once you hire a retinue company (say a 500 man Gendarme unit), it starts at one man who may or not be commander and it slowly grows to the 500 man specified. Based on screenies, we can assume the ratios of hireable retinue variations are fixed (presumably modable though)

4) if your entire retinue gets wiped out (to zero men) in battle, then it ceases to exist. if your retinue is down to one man, then it still "exists" and it will slowly cost money again to reinforce it until it is at full cost. E.g., it costs 80 gold to hire a 500 heavy cav retinue, and it takes 12 months for it to fully reinforce, and maintenance is 2 gold a month, then the actual cost to have a newly hired retinue is 104 gold while having it return to full strength is only 24 gold. The 80 gold is a one time payment