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Last week I told you about the College of Cardinals and the new papal powers (though I believe I forgot to mention that the Pope can also grant you claims on counties and duchies!) Today I'll go through the rest of the new Christian mechanics in Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham, as well as the new Muslim stuff. Let's start with the Holy Orders!

CKII_SoA_DD_02_Dynastic_Grandmaster.jpg

We have given each non-heretic religion in the game at least one Holy Order. This includes the various pagan religions, though most of their Holy Orders are rather fanciful. The Catholics also get two more in addition to the old ones; the Knights of Calatrava and the Knights of Santiago, both of which are mostly active in Hispania. Holy Orders are no longer activated at a certain date, many will start showing up once the Crusades/Jihads kick off (which is also more dynamic now), or when certain conditions are met. For example, the Brotherhood of the Holy Sepulchre (an Orthodox Holy Order) becomes active if Antioch and Jerusalem are Orthodox and held by Orthodox rulers. Holy Orders are now much more active in world politics, and both their internal and external mechanics have been altered. You can now borrow money from certain Holy Orders (like the Knights Templar), or donate money for Piety. They, in turn, will make various requests (and if you owe them money, it is hard to refuse.) For example, they can ask that one of your sons join them, or that you give them the right to build a castle in an empty holding slot in one of your counties. Internally, Grandmasters are no longer randomly generated characters, but chosen from among vassals and courtiers, many of which will now be important members of European nobility. Having a Grandmaster of your dynasty will give you a monthly amount of prestige. Castle holdings under the Grandmaster are no longer hereditary, but appointed to a "Commander" for life. We have also added some minor rules and decisions, like if you happen to be the king of Jerusalem, you now have the option to vassalize the Templars and the Knights of St John. Lastly, if you think that an Order has grown too powerful in your realm, you can expel it forever, seizing its castles (a very impious act.)

CKII_SoA_DD_02_Holy_Order_Decisions.jpg

Somewhat related to the Holy Orders, you now have the ability to order any courtier to take the vows and become a monk or nun. The character will then either become a regular monk or nun (traits), or go off to join one of the martial orders. Either way, he or she will be disinherited. Unfortunately, you are not allowed to do this against characters who stand to inherit titles (like younger sons under Gavelkind); unless you imprison them first!

CKII_SoA_DD_02_Take_the_Vows.jpg

As I mentioned earlier, the Crusades will no longer necessarily kick off after a certain year; it now depends on the actual situation in Europe. For example, if Constantinople or Rome have fallen or the Moors are pushing into France. Similar conditions now apply for the Muslims. The Pagans - if they can have Great Holy Wars - will get them after the Crusades and Jihads are both active.

We have also improved on the heresies; most of them are now more distinctive and some of them even have their own heads of religion. For example, the Cathars can appoint female bishops and the Ibadi can now have their own Caliph, etc. The events that control the spread of heresies are different if you have Sons of Abraham; heresies tend to be more localized and it is also possible for minority view non-heretics among your courtiers to spread their faith (i.e. an Orthodox courtier among Catholics, etc.) Perhaps the most drastic change to heresies though, is that they can now take over as the new orthodoxy if they hold more provinces than the current mainstream form of the religion. If, say, more counties are Waldensian than Catholic, Catholicism will become the heresy and its Holy Orders will join the Waldensians. Oh, and we also decided to add "regular" religious rebels who are not trying to spread a heresy, just to gain freedom from the religious oppression of their overlords (e.g. Sunni rebels in a Catholic realm.)

Catholicism may have received the most attention in Sons of Abraham, but we have not forgotten the Muslims. They get a choice between two rival schools of theology and the conflicts that arise out of taking a stance. On one side, you have the Mu'tazili school, which espouses reason and rational thought inspired by the ancient Greek philosophers. Opposing them are the Ash'ari, who belive in the eternal, uncreated word of Allah. Historically, the Mutazilites lost out after some fairly brutal conflicts and draconian measures like the Mihna , arguably bringing to an end the Islamic Golden Age. In game terms, Mutazilites get a Learning bonus for research, whereas the Ash'ari gain Piety, and members of opposing schools tend to loathe each other.

I think that will do for now. Next week, I'll speak of pilgrimages, religious events and Judaism!
 
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Will there be Latin Patriarchs? Mending the schism from the west?

Yes I know I've probably asked this a thousand times but here it goes again.

I suppose so, I mean they would have to because if you think about it, if you mend the schism as an orthodox and catholic becomes a heresy and then you play as a catholic and take over the orthodox church, then viola, Orthodox is the heresy and Catholicism is the dominant religion.

My question is where do the holy orders go in that situation?
 
2) You can only make someone who stands to inherit titles take the vows if he is in prison. How can a prisoner flee to another court?
I guess making a prisoner take the vows automatically releases him/her. (Much like when asking a heretic prisoner to convert.)

Or are you saying that the local monastery should be relocated to the prison's courtyard ? :p
Maybe the idea of chained monks is not so bad after all... This way, they can share some of the Christ's suffering ! :laugh:
 
Hmm, a little disappointed it looks like decadence won't be getting any changes. I really want to play Muslim but I really hate that mechanic in its present form. Also regarding Muslims, if I take a Mutazilite game and convert it into EU4 will I still have the same penalty to tech research?


The other stuff in this DD sound awesome though, love the revamp to heresies, especially a heresy becoming the mainstream if it becomes popular enough. Revamp to holy orders also sounds really good :).
 
Do any of the non-Catholic heresies get any new flavour or mechanics? I'm thinking the Islamics ones (aside from already-mentioned Ibadi) especially, but also the Orthodox and Zoroastrian ones. Not expecting much for the latter, but the Manichaean Archegos was still residing in Baghdad in 867 (expelled in 908 by Al-Muqtadir), a reasonable candidate for "religious leader" for Manichaeism given the game map and timeframe (though they actually had a system more similar to Orthodox Patriarchs).

TLDR - Archegos is a cool title, there historically still was one in Baghdad in 867, maybe add it for fun? And do any other non-Catholic heresies get any fun flavour or mechanics?

This! It shoud be a no brainer to see the Archegos/Yamag appear in game. After his expulsion in 908 the Archegos ended up relocating to Samarkand for quite some time and shifted the focus of the Manichaean church to China
 
1) Imprisoning eleven people without a valid reason will make all your vassals hate you, so I wouldn't call it exploitable.

Not if you string it out over a long period of time, which is when you are going to have so many sons in the first place. It's a very manageable relations hit for the competent player.

You can only make someone who stands to inherit titles take the vows if he is in prison. How can a prisoner flee to another court?
Presumably they are let out of prison to begin their new life at a monastery and then they say 'screw you' and escape to France.
 
Good info. We want more!

1. Please elaborate more on Appointment as a succession law. Will it be something we can apply to other types of kingdoms, other than just Holy Orders?
2. Are we going to be able to play holy orders now, or is this just bits for interacting with them as AI entities? What about theocracies?
3. Please comment on decadence and anything you are doing to adjust it.

--Khanwulf
 
The Reformation SHOULD be bloody tbh.
Actually, I'd really like it, if I had the choice to make it a bloody reformation or not.

But on another topic: I'd also like to see the possibility of modding holy orders to be playable. I know people are saying they aren't hereditary and blah but it would be an interesting game, trying to enlist royals and "commoners" alike to gain power for your order in medieval europe - every new recruit comes with a "dowry" - lending money in order to be able to ask favours from the kings and queens of europe, so that you might expand in catholic europe as well via asking to build castles in their regions (as you couldn't attack another catholic ruler). I'd really like that option to be moddable, at least. :)

edit: I meant christian, not catholic. :3
 
I'm a little bit disappointed with the DD. Most of this information was already in the video. Still, nice features.
 
I'll be a tad bit dissapointed if decadence isn't changed or tweaked in any way, though.
I think you understate that particular point. I would be curious to know what percentage of people play as Muslims; it's naturally going to be smaller than that which play as Christians, but I am willing to bet that the decadence system puts even more people off.
 
The changes being made are pretty cool, but if that really is all there are for Christians (and Catholicism in particularly) then I don't think its enough.

And am I the only one who doesn't like the default 'gain more prestige/piety' bonus for a lot of things? I think its far less interesting than actually giving the player or AI an advantage which can be actually utilized in the game.
 
Any tweak to decadence belongs to patch territory and as such it will be addressed in the last dev diary, I assume.
 
Thanks to your great Dev Diary!
By the way, I have a question concerning Theological Schools in Islam.
If you choose Mu'tazilite side, then you suffer a penalty for your Piety?
And vice versa?
 
Doomdark: any changes to a) the decadence mechanic or b) its effects and c) making cross-religion marriages permissible (or, ci) moddable)?
 
The Mutazali/Asha'ari split sounds like an interesting implementation!

While I'm not too versed if this is relevant to the time period, but any plans for a Ithna-Asheri vs Ismaili type dynamic for Shi'a Muslims?

Thanks to your great Dev Diary!
By the way, I have a question concerning Theological Schools in Islam.
If you choose Mu'tazilite side, then you suffer a penalty for your Piety?
And vice versa?

Sounds like the Asha'ari get + piety. I don't think the Mu'tazilite get - from how I read it