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It's Tuesday and time for another dev diary on the latest expansion for Crusader Kings II; Sons of Abraham. The topics of the day are pilgrimages, Judaism and religious events. First off though, for those who read last week's diary, we've changed how the Ash'ari and Mu'tazilite traits are handled a bit. They are now much more significant, because an Ash'ari no longer gives decadence to his dynasty, and the Learning bonus for Mutazilites is correspondingly higher (currently +5).

CKII_SoA_DD_03_Start_of_Pilgrimage.jpg

Right, so, on the subject of Islam, one thing we were quite happy with in Sword of Islam was the addition of the decision to go on the Hajj, with the little adventure and the special trait you got at the end. Naturally, a lot of people thought we should add a similar thing for Christians, so that is exactly what we have done in Sons of Abraham. Christians get to choose between several different holy places. For example, Catholics can go to Canterbury, Santiago, Cologne, Rome or Jerusalem. During the journey, a regent will be appointed for pilgrim rulers and various adventures will unfold. Going on a pilgrimage costs a bit of money, and there are of course risks, but successful pilgrims will enjoy monthly piety and respect from their brothers and sisters of the faith for the rest of their lives. There could also be some unexpected benefits...

CKII_SoA_DD_03_Pilgrim_Adventure.jpg

In the same vein, we have added tons of events dealing with religious life, for Christians especially. Some are complex event chains (for example, there is one inspired by Joan of Arc) and others are simple (e.g. monks cure your illness.) There are events about relics, immoral priests (of most religions), the crusades, etc.

However, the feature in Sons of Abraham that appears to have garnered the most attention is probably the addition of the Jewish religion. Prior to the addition of the 867 start date in The Old Gods, adding Judaism to the game seemed relatively pointless due to the lack of significant Jewish rulers. In 867 though, there is indeed a powerful Jewish state; the Turkic Khazar Khaganate, which we previously represented as being of the Tengri faith, but which was historically well into the process of converting to Judaism at the time. (I think it is plausible enough that they did this in order to counteract foreign interference justified by Muslim and Christian proselytizing. Furthermore, it can be very beneficial for an empire to have a religion of its own as a vehicle for cultural cohesion and dominance.) Now, playing as the Khazars is not easy even in 867, due mostly to their powerful and aggressive neighbors, like the Pechenegs and the Cumans, but there is also a real risk of religious internal strife. In other words, it's a worthy challenge, like playing as the Zoroastrian House of Karen.

CKII_SoA_DD_03_Rabbi_at_Work.jpg

Of course, there is an even tougher challenge available, even for those who do not have The Old Gods; one last Jewish Khazar duke is still clinging on in the Saray region in 1066, vassal to the Cumans. Now, Jewish players have similar goals to strive for as the Zoroastrians; you can try to restore the ancient united kingdom of Israel and Judah, restore the High Priesthood under the Kohen Gadol, and even rebuild the Temple.

CKII_SoA_DD_03_The_Last_Khazars.jpg

Apart from the Khazar Jews, there are also the Ashkenazim and Sephardim, in the form of learned men and courtiers who can show up in your court. If you run out of money as a non-Jewish ruler, you can also choose to borrow money from Jewish merchants. If you do not want to pay them back, you can actually expel the Jews from the realm (similar to what you can do with the Holy Orders.) You will, however, stop getting the benefits of having remarkably skilled Jewish courtiers to serve in your council, and you and your descendants cannot borrow any more money from their community. Obviously, this is a pretty terrible thing to do, but it does, unfortunately, have several historical precedents.

CKII_SoA_DD_03_Jewish_Decisions.jpg

I believe that about sums up the features of this little expansion. Next week I'll go through all the stuff we're giving you for free!
 
They should look like middle easterners with paler skin. Ashkenazi Jews don't really look like germans for the most part imo. When I see a Jewish person and imagine them with the same features but with a bit darker skin they look just like arabs from my experience.

Comparing present day Ashkenazi's to Ashkenazi's from 550-1000 years ago might not be historically accurate :rolleyes:
 
Your referencing the Islamo-pagan structura that would have to be demolished and the Mount itself purified before the Temple could be rebuilt in accordance with Jewish Law. Which is why it's entirely inappropriate and offensive for its image to be portrayed in this context.

I just looked closely, and indeed they use a picture of the Dome of the Rock to represent the temple. That is a horrible mistake and is incredibly insulting. It seems like it was chosen only because it's iconic in the modern day and a layman might mistake it for the actual temple, which is terrible.
 
I don't think it represents the Temple. It just shows the site where the Temple was, which is (according to many in the medieval period and today) where the Dome of the Rock is. Implicit in it is the assertion that it would be torn down in preparation for a new temple, which is in fact more offensive to Muslims and Christians.

In short, there's nothing wrong with that image - it should remain. At most it should be "zoomed out" a little to show a larger portion of the temple mount, which presumably would be totally cleared by the King of Israel in preparation for the third temple. After that, of course, the pictures should show the new temple or just images of the Kohen Gadol or another priest performing rites inside.
 
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It just looks like they reused the icon from the "mend the schism" decision.

And "incredibly insulting"... It's just a 24 by 20 pixels picture of a temple, calm down.
 
It just looks like they reused the icon from the "mend the schism" decision.

And "incredibly insulting"... It's just a 24 by 20 pixels picture of a temple, calm down.
It simply represents a generic "temple" icon. It doesn't need to be associated with either Jewish Temple or the Dome of the Rock.
 
Wow, guys, really? I think saying it's "Incredibly insulting" is pretty steep hyperbole. I would even say "Mildly Insulting" is pushing it. Maybe simply "inaccurate" or "inappropriate" would work. It's a bit sickening how everyone looks forward to being able to be righteously outraged, and always on the lookout for the opportunity. It's a stretch.
 
wow, guys, really? I think saying it's "incredibly insulting" is pretty steep hyperbole. I would even say "mildly insulting" is pushing it. Maybe simply "inaccurate" or "inappropriate" would work. It's a bit sickening how everyone looks forward to being able to be righteously outraged, and always on the lookout for the opportunity. It's a stretch.

ikr?
 
Nice work! I'm wondering a couple of things about the Jews, though. First, the King of Israel who rebuilds the Temple is, technically, the Messiah -- is he going to get any kind of title / nickname / &c to reflect that? Second, are you going to keep track of Kohanim/Leviim (priests & Levites)? They'd be pretty easy to implement (it could basically work like Sayyid in Islam, I'd think), and it'd make rebuilding the Temple much more flavorful (e.g., the Kohein Gadol would, obviously, have to be a Kohein). Speaking of rebuilding the Temple, the King of the refounded Israel really ought to be able to call for Aliyah -- i.e., call all Jews back to Israel. I mean, it's not an obscure part of the religion or anything...we pray for the ingathering of the exiles three times a day, six days a week. It'd have really interesting consequences -- e.g., the possibility of losing talented Jewish courtiers, increased difficulty of Christians securing loans, &c.

Also, technically the guy who rebuilds the Temple ought to have to then resurrect the dead, though I imagine that's beyond the scope of this expansion. :laugh:
 
Also, technically the guy who rebuilds the Temple ought to have to then resurrect the dead, though I imagine that's beyond the scope of this expansion. :laugh:
And that's the link with the by many so much awaited CK:Z dlc.
 
Only political consequences are presented.
Calling back to israel is represented by the game generating random courtiers, being the restorer, well itd be easy to duplicate the Zoroastrian event for that and have an inherited trait for descendant of the king of israel or whatever. But probably thats more a mod thing.

Why would jewish courtiers be talented?
And surely the banking jews wouldn't 'return' anyway, as it would mean abandoning their livelihood to go live somewhere dangerous with no promise of work. Even if most went, thatd just make them as stayed richer so really complicated representations arent needed.
itd be much the same as immigrants to the christian holy land under the kings of jerusalem, thrid sons, the umemployement and the desperate seek fame and wealth, those as have good jobs stay behind.

Also, anyone know if the more generic religion events will be enough so that Zoroastrians and reformed pagans will get them too?
 
Nice work! I'm wondering a couple of things about the Jews, though. First, the King of Israel who rebuilds the Temple is, technically, the Messiah -- is he going to get any kind of title / nickname / &c to reflect that? Second, are you going to keep track of Kohanim/Leviim (priests & Levites)? They'd be pretty easy to implement (it could basically work like Sayyid in Islam, I'd think), and it'd make rebuilding the Temple much more flavorful (e.g., the Kohein Gadol would, obviously, have to be a Kohein). Speaking of rebuilding the Temple, the King of the refounded Israel really ought to be able to call for Aliyah -- i.e., call all Jews back to Israel. I mean, it's not an obscure part of the religion or anything...we pray for the ingathering of the exiles three times a day, six days a week. It'd have really interesting consequences -- e.g., the possibility of losing talented Jewish courtiers, increased difficulty of Christians securing loans, &c.

Also, technically the guy who rebuilds the Temple ought to have to then resurrect the dead, though I imagine that's beyond the scope of this expansion. :laugh:

Well, the Messiah (incidentally, Christ is simply the Greek translation of Messiah) was specifically supposed to be a descendant of David (which is why the New Testament makes such a point of tracing Jesus' ancestry). On the other hand, I could certainly see someone who drove non-Jewish (aka Gentile) rulers out of the Kingdom of Israel (Israel and Judah if you prefer :p) conveniently 'finding' proof that he's descended from David!

And huh. I thought that part about the Messiah resurrecting the dead was an idea specifically introduced by Jesus.
 
A king who can declare himself messiah can declare himself descended from david. Or a goose. Or anything.
He's a ruler who has just done something which has granted him near unlimited political capital, he can declare himself whatever he wants.
 
Shouldn't Abyssinia also get the option to create Israel if they capture the Holy Land even if they don't convert to Judaism? They DID claim to be King Solomon's descendants...
 
By that logic so should the Georgians and oh, half the kings of europe by claiming David. KoJ does well enough for everyone else without getting carried away and granting claims to mythical founders of which all the dynasties had by the 13th century once the bards discovered how easy money it was.

Will Israel even be a title? would having it take a different name if the holder was jewish not work as well, as york gets a different name and flag if the holder is danish?
 
Why would jewish courtiers be talented?

Same reasons Queens were so often great rulers. Not because women are smarter than men, but because if you weren't a cunning or talented women, you would never make it to the throne in the Middle Ages, thus there is a natural sorting process, eliminating the talentless women of royal blood. Just think of all the shenanigans for instance, Catherine The Great or Margrethe I of Denmark had to pull in order to stay in power.

As for Jews - To actually make it into a royal (ducal / countal (?)) court, as a member of a discriminated minority you have to be smart. In other words, the obstacle of being a Jew in medieval Europe makes sure that only the talented Jews make it that far.
 
Same reasons Queens were so often great rulers. Not because women are smarter than men, but because if you weren't a cunning or talented women, you would never make it to the throne in the Middle Ages, thus there is a natural sorting process, eliminating the talentless women of royal blood. Just think of all the shenanigans for instance, Catherine The Great or Margrethe I of Denmark had to pull in order to stay in power.

As for Jews - To actually make it into a royal (ducal / countal (?)) court, as a member of a discriminated minority you have to be smart. In other words, the obstacle of being a Jew in medieval Europe makes sure that only the talented Jews make it that far.

Excellent summary. Definitely a potent argument for Jews ingame being "elite". Naturally they shouldn't be elite in the court of Jews though, or should women rulers really be elite in a Cognatic court. It should all vary based on the context in which they appear. Paradox should be careful that Khazaria doesn't become ruled by a Ashkenazi meritocracy derived from Jews exiled from European courts.
 
Same reasons Queens were so often great rulers. Not because women are smarter than men, but because if you weren't a cunning or talented women, you would never make it to the throne in the Middle Ages, thus there is a natural sorting process, eliminating the talentless women of royal blood. Just think of all the shenanigans for instance, Catherine The Great or Margrethe I of Denmark had to pull in order to stay in power.

As for Jews - To actually make it into a royal (ducal / countal (?)) court, as a member of a discriminated minority you have to be smart. In other words, the obstacle of being a Jew in medieval Europe makes sure that only the talented Jews make it that far.

It's such a pity the game will cheerily give you IMBECILES for random courtiers so it clearly doesn't follow that reasoning in general.
 
It's such a pity the game will cheerily give you IMBECILES for random courtiers so it clearly doesn't follow that reasoning in general.
Gotta love how the game makes you pay 0.2 scaled wealth just to "handpick" a random imbecile generated with terrible traits. Generally you're better off bribing and inviting existing courtiers, thus actually doing the "handpicking" yourself.