• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
It's time for another cycle of developer diaries on Crusader Kings II and I thought I'd begin by talking about the new start date and giving you a broad overview of the upcoming expansion; The Old Gods. Yes, we're pushing back the earliest possible start date to 867 AD. This is a special bookmark that comes with the expansion (and you will not be able to start at dates between 867 and 1066 without modding.)

Europe is a very different place in 867... Many of the familiar countries have not yet come into being. There is no Hungary, no Poland, no Russian principalities and the British Isles and Scandinavia are full of petty kingdoms. The Carolingians still rule the Franks, but the great Empire of Charlemagne has been divided between four of his descendants. In the Byzantine Empire, a new dynasty has just risen - the House of Makedon - destined to restore some of its former glory. The Muslims are in the middle of a drawn-out crisis as the once enormous Abbasid Caliphate has fractured, with a succession of Caliphs being murdered by their own Turkish generals.

CKII_ToG_DD_01_Europe_867.png

Most importantly, however, the North and East are completely dominated by bustling tribes of unrepentant heathens who remain less than impressed with the White Christ. Why debase yourself before a dead man on a cross when you can loot the riches of his fat clergy instead? Just as the fury of the Northmen descends on the undefended shores of Europe, other, equally pagan threats are on the rise in the steppes of Tartaria. Like the Avars before them, the feared Magyar horse lords are pushing into Europe from beyond the Carpathians. Why is all this more important than the affairs of Christians and Muslims? Because with The Old Gods, all these heathens are finally playable! (But you probably knew that already. :D )

CKII_ToG_DD_01_Magyar_Invasion.png

Playing a pagan chieftain is at least as different as playing a Muslim. Not only that, there are significant differences between the various heathen religions. Some are aggressive in nature, like the Norse and Tengri beliefs, and some are more defensive, like the Finno-Ugric faith. For example, the warlike Norse will suffer a prestige loss for being at peace for too long, and will need to wage war or set sail to pillage and loot. The Finns don't have this problem, but on the other hand, their vassals will dislike having their troops raised (like Christians). Some faiths get defensive bonuses and larger garrisons in their homelands, some don't, etc. However, they can all potentially be reformed to withstand the allure of the new religions.

CKII_ToG_DD_01_The_Great_Heathen_Army.png

In the coming weeks, I will explain the different religions in detail. I will, of course, also talk about other new features, like traversible rivers, new cultures, Zoroastrians, Adventurers, and much more. Stay tuned, and here are some more screenshots to tease and titillate!

CKII_ToG_DD_01_Loot_and_Pillage.pngCKII_ToG_DD_01_Varangians.pngCKII_ToG_DD_01_The_Last_Zoroastrians.png



[video=youtube;V-edUnWQgyM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-edUnWQgyM[/video]

Web page: http://www.crusaderkings.com
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/Crusaderkings
Twitter: http://twitter.com/Crusaderkings
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Love it.

I wonder, if the dlc/patch will break the tutorials even more.
If they didn't update it, it's a given. However devs (Goose?) stated that the tutorial will be brought up to speed, presumably up to and including tOG.
 
I think we can safely assume "yes". As well as Burgundy becoming Lothringaria, and Galloway becoming Strathclyde/Alt Clud.
And hopefully no HRE in Germany for the moment (but rather in Italy if we want to make things right).
 
Oh god! Transversable rivers! And look at the new interface! Looting levels are awesome.....This has got me excited

wrong, you should say "Oh Gods! Transversable rivers!" ;)
 
Lol are you serious? First of all the notion of "Slovak" didn't even exist in this time period, second of all, Slavic names in all Slavic countries work like this, dithematic with an adjective or verb as the first component and a noun as the second.

I am serious.

Slovaks consider Greater Moravia as the predecessor to their state. They do have the same claim to it as, for example, White Russians or Ukrainians to Kievan Rus.

As for Slavic names... Find me "Svyatopolk", please :) I do not mean now, I mean prior to Kievan Svyatopolk.

EDIT: A good exercise. Pick early Russian prince names (Svyatopolk/Sviatopolk, Rostislav, etc.) Do a search in Wikipedia for historical persons. Usually, there is a short list, led by Greater Moravian historical character, followed by 4-5 princes of Rus plus, maybe, a random character from some Slavic country (who lived 4-5 centuries later).
 
Last edited:
Looking at the map it seems Pavia is not the capital of Italy.

I understand the fact that if you don't give the HRE to the Kings of Germany you mess up the numbering of the Kings, however for the sake of historicity (as the King of Italy was the one holding the Imperial Title at that time) I suggest Paradox to create a titular Empire for Louis II of Italy. The King of France has an Empire-tier title, the King of Germany has an Empire-tier title... Why not for the poor Italian King? He can be given the titular Imperial title of "Emperor of the Romans", making this title not creatable after its destroyed setting strict forming conditions.

Another thing: if you give HRE to the King of Germany in order to keep regal numbering correct, I don't understand how you would do this. In fact Louis is historically counted as a Carolingian Holy Roman Emperor, between Lothair I (823-855) and Charles II (875-877).

Cool thing the navigable rivers... Please make also the Po river navigable so we can finally have a "Lombard League" Republic in Northern Italy after 1100 or so.
 
I am serious.

Slovaks consider Greater Moravia as the predecessor to their state. They do have the same claim to it as, for example, White Russians or Ukrainians to Kievan Rus.

As for Slavic names... Find me "Svyatopolk", please :) I do not mean now, I mean prior to Kievan Svyatopolk.

As much as the Czechs do, to be honest. Great Moravia was the final time before Czechoslovakia when the two groups were politically united, and the point at which they culturally and linguistically diverged. I did find out that Great Moravia is cited in the Slovak constitution after you wrote that, but really the nation was just the most powerful political unit of the contemporary West Slavs. Even Silesians can claim to be Great Moravians, after all, and the fact that the nation bordered the South Slavs suggests that it was part of a large Slavic continuum. I agree that the Moravians contributed names, since they were the jump off point for Slavic writing and Slavic christian rites. By all means set your capital in Nyitra and play for the glory of modern day Slovakia, but remember that if not for the fall of Great Moravia, "Slovak" as in idea would not exist. Czechs, Slovaks, many Poles and maybe even some modern day Croatians would be part of a continuum of people with no clear dividing line, and possibly the Avars would have spent the best part of 1000 years grumbling about Moravian domination and probably being assimilated into some Great Moravian culture.
 
I love the new interface for pagans, could orthodox get a purple one in a future update too? Also have the new facepacks not been made yet or are they not choosing to show them because they aren't included with old gods? I just want to see some steppe faces, is that too much to ask for?
 
It looks very nice, I am already excited.
 
Can someone explain the first picture to me? There is a united Italy in 867AD? :unsure:

So Italy is still fractured in Victoria 2, so did the fracture happen after a Kingdom of Italy was in existance? I looked on Wikipedia but apparently, according to them, Italian history goes from the Fall of Rome to all of a sudden Normans conquering Sicily... :/

In few bullet points:
- Italy united under the Romans
- Odoacer, a germanic warlord, conquers whats remaining of the Western Roman Empire in 476 and essentially became Ruler of Italy
- Theoderic conquers Italy from Odoacer, essentially rules over whole Italy as Odoacer did
- After few Goth Kings, Justinian reconquers Italy (mostly)
- Then the Longobards conquer most of Italy, with the exception of some parts of the South (that remain Byzantine, and later conquered by the Arabs)
- Then the Pope calls the Carolingians that conquers what remained of the Longobard Kingdom (All of Italy north of Rome)
- Then after the disgregation of the Carolingian Empire(s) Italy is ruled by a series of weak Kings (that rule, mostly nominally, northern and centre Italy)
- Then Otto conquers Italy and crowns himself King of Italy, Germany and Germanic Holy Roman Emperor...

From then Italy was essentially divided in 3: the South, that after a couple of centuries of fight, is essentially divided either in one or two Kingdoms (mainland and Sicily). The Center, ruled mostly by the Pope and other independent smaller rulers. The North: a mess of city-state that slowly evolved in small states.

Move forward history and then you have a united Italy in 1861.
 
Burgundy rename Provence....Kingdom of burgundy didn(t exist at this date.....it's a kingdom of Provence(not burgundy).A lots of mistake

Provence had gone to the Kingdom of Italy around 855, so no, there should not be a Kingdom of Provence around. On the other hand the AI should keep Lotharingia as its main title, not Burgundy.
 
not a dev, but I've seen no material that suggests new anti-blobbing mechanics. And on current mechanics, a Great Moravia split 5 ways would be an integral part of the HRE in 10 years in most games. There does seem to be a general preference to federations in a lot of cases.

I'm not sure what logic that has, the Devs didn't create an artificial "kingdom of Ireland" just so that all the tiny little Irish petty kingdoms wouldn't get blobbed. The principalities and tribal confederations I mentioned existed at the time, whereas the huge Moravian empire didn't exist yet. That's just the way it was. And representing it accurately wouldn't even create lots of tiny one-county realms like in Ireland, the tribes were of duchy size and because they will all be Slavic Pagan (except Moravia) they will fight defensively together against any Frankish attack. Which should let them survive for a while at least.

You split the Russian tribes into a million pieces Hibernian, but you keep the Balts in one big one. If the russian tribes should be split up, then the Balts should definetely also, by the same logic.

Oh no, the Baltic tribes are simply not show on my map, because I wasn't researching them at the time, I was just trying to map the Slavic and Finnic tribes. Of course the Balts would be split into many tribes, but I just didn't show that. If you read the thread I linked to, you'll see a full explanation of all the maps.


BTW, if you don't belive me about Moravia, here's a map that was posted by Splorghley, it comes from a history text-book and shows how Great Moravia grew over time:

You can clearly see that before 870 it was a small state.
mapaVelk%C3%A9Moravy.png
 
Last edited:
Balance. Consider the impact of de jure wars over Devon, and that an independent Cornwall wouldn't stand a chance against Wessex.

I'm not really sure why this is a priority, though. Paradox is quite happy to put one-province Pagan minors right next to the HRE in the base scenario, I don't see why Cornwall particularly needs to stand a chance against Wessex. The case for it being part of Wessex, on the other hand, basically boils down to:

- It was, historically, part of Wessex at the time.
- Its ruling ealdorman, Odda, was a minor historical badass who defeated and killed one of the sons of Ragnar, and making Devon part of Cornwall seems like it'd wind up removing him from existence, or at least from playability
- As others have said, if Cornwall still owned Devon, it'd be Dumnonia, not Cornwall
 
Everything looks great. I just wanted to say something about the Army sizes. They look too large for the time. The Great Heathen Army is bigger than William the Conqueror's force in the 1066 start. His army was suppose to be one of the largest ones seen at the time. I thought the estimates for the Great heathen Army's size were only a couple of thousand. This would have been considered "Great" at the time, since most armies were in the few hundreds. I know it sounds like nitpicking but it just seems unrealistic. Perhaps it's done for balance reasons or maybe it will be changed before the final release. Anyway, looks awesome and I will definitely be getting this release day.