• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
It's time for another cycle of developer diaries on Crusader Kings II and I thought I'd begin by talking about the new start date and giving you a broad overview of the upcoming expansion; The Old Gods. Yes, we're pushing back the earliest possible start date to 867 AD. This is a special bookmark that comes with the expansion (and you will not be able to start at dates between 867 and 1066 without modding.)

Europe is a very different place in 867... Many of the familiar countries have not yet come into being. There is no Hungary, no Poland, no Russian principalities and the British Isles and Scandinavia are full of petty kingdoms. The Carolingians still rule the Franks, but the great Empire of Charlemagne has been divided between four of his descendants. In the Byzantine Empire, a new dynasty has just risen - the House of Makedon - destined to restore some of its former glory. The Muslims are in the middle of a drawn-out crisis as the once enormous Abbasid Caliphate has fractured, with a succession of Caliphs being murdered by their own Turkish generals.

CKII_ToG_DD_01_Europe_867.png

Most importantly, however, the North and East are completely dominated by bustling tribes of unrepentant heathens who remain less than impressed with the White Christ. Why debase yourself before a dead man on a cross when you can loot the riches of his fat clergy instead? Just as the fury of the Northmen descends on the undefended shores of Europe, other, equally pagan threats are on the rise in the steppes of Tartaria. Like the Avars before them, the feared Magyar horse lords are pushing into Europe from beyond the Carpathians. Why is all this more important than the affairs of Christians and Muslims? Because with The Old Gods, all these heathens are finally playable! (But you probably knew that already. :D )

CKII_ToG_DD_01_Magyar_Invasion.png

Playing a pagan chieftain is at least as different as playing a Muslim. Not only that, there are significant differences between the various heathen religions. Some are aggressive in nature, like the Norse and Tengri beliefs, and some are more defensive, like the Finno-Ugric faith. For example, the warlike Norse will suffer a prestige loss for being at peace for too long, and will need to wage war or set sail to pillage and loot. The Finns don't have this problem, but on the other hand, their vassals will dislike having their troops raised (like Christians). Some faiths get defensive bonuses and larger garrisons in their homelands, some don't, etc. However, they can all potentially be reformed to withstand the allure of the new religions.

CKII_ToG_DD_01_The_Great_Heathen_Army.png

In the coming weeks, I will explain the different religions in detail. I will, of course, also talk about other new features, like traversible rivers, new cultures, Zoroastrians, Adventurers, and much more. Stay tuned, and here are some more screenshots to tease and titillate!

CKII_ToG_DD_01_Loot_and_Pillage.pngCKII_ToG_DD_01_Varangians.pngCKII_ToG_DD_01_The_Last_Zoroastrians.png



[video=youtube;V-edUnWQgyM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-edUnWQgyM[/video]

Web page: http://www.crusaderkings.com
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/Crusaderkings
Twitter: http://twitter.com/Crusaderkings
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Holy wars/Crusades/Jihads will most likely be disabled until 1090 if you start in the 867 timeline with the patch that comes with new DLC otherwise it doesn't make sense and all the other pagans would get owned by the HRE/Muslims making the 867 start silly.

I dont think we already know how strong these realms will be. In history, around this time, the 4 kingdoms of what used tobe the Carolingian empire, struggled for survival. Expecially the land what would later become France was for the taking: it lacked central authority, and was basically ruled by these selfmade noobs in their catellini's. The other realms where less worse, where probably Germany was the only kingdom capable of extending it's power toward the outside due to it's duke based structure.

My point here: dont overestimate the power of these kingdoms.
 
I sure hope Asturias gets its own kingdom and culture. In 867 there were even less differences between various iberian cultures than in 1066, so they should be handled just like norse. Start as one culture, and potentially divide into others by event.
 
I don't suppose with the addition of these navigable rivers, there'll also be the addition of naval combat? Or at the very least a possibility to blockade passages?

If not, I'd like to see this in the next DLC. I'm quite tired of navies doing nothing at all, besides being expensive ferries.

Cheers
 
I don't suppose with the addition of these navigable rivers, there'll also be the addition of naval combat? Or at the very least a possibility to blockade passages?

If not, I'd like to see this in the next DLC. I'm quite tired of navies doing nothing at all, besides being expensive ferries.

Cheers
I'd like that too. Naval combat was rare, and it was actually hard to spot enemy fleet to even start the battle. But on rivers this should not be too much of a trouble :)

Speaking of ships, I think they are too good in general. You are campaigning in Jerusalem and Icelandic count rebels? No problem, load your men into super-ships and attack Vestisland in few weeks! And then go back sieging the holy land! Solution: Maybe smaller naval levies? slower ships? nasty shipwreck events! and naval tech to affect things...
 
I sure hope Asturias gets its own kingdom and culture. In 867 there were even less differences between various iberian cultures than in 1066, so they should be handled just like norse. Start as one culture, and potentially divide into others by event.
Hmmm... Well, basques are basques now as were basques then and before the romans, galicians have a different celtic/suebi substrate, they should be different from the start.
 
A question

It seems from this ( http://media.pcgamer.com/files/2013/03/551920_571561449529034_471929354_n.jpg ) that Denmark is divided into sub-kingdoms.
Now, I readily admit that I might be somewhat biased, but I was under the impression that Denmark was already unified by 867 (the propaganda of Harold Bluetooth aside), because the work done on the Dannevirke in the 8th century was much too extensive for it to simply having been a local undertaking.
Actually Denmark as a unified kingdom is highly uncertain at this time. For instance king Gorm the Old's wife was Thyra Danebod, this name is a bit odd if she comes from the same kingdom as Gorm himself. Essentially her nickname marks her a part of a peace settlement, but as good one. And we know from archaeology that Denmark was fragmented into several kingdom earlier, one being the islands one Jutland and one sometimes combined with the islands sometimes alone as Scania, Halland and Blekinge (Halland being the ancestral home of the tribe of the Danes), and these petty kingdoms fought each other. Given the Danes came from Halland and took over the islands quickly, it isn't much of a surprise that they warred with the Jutes (as in the Jutes who stayed home from the attacks on Kent).

About the capability of building Dannevirke it should be noted that the islanders of Samsø managed to dig and maintain Kanhavekalen, a not insignificant job for such a small island. And it should be noted that both of these works were done significantly before Denmark was formed, even if we assume the earliest formation. So yes, a petty king was certainly able to build Dannevirke, but it appears the fortification was initially not as extensive as we know it today, most likely no more than covering the much smaller area around Hedeby which wasn't marshy, and thus the only area that was easily traversed by armies.

It sohuld also be noted that when Otto I attacked Denmark with his army he went for Limfjorden, rather than Funen. If the Danish kings had held lands east of Funen then the occupation of Jutland would be terrible, but hardly enough to make them bow their knee to Otto. The effect of his invasion appears to have been the utter destruction of the kingdom's power. It is possible however that the kings held the remaining parts of the later Denmark in a sort of tribute payment system (Danish kings were mentioned as having campaigned relatively often around parts of the later kingdom), and thus regaining the power was imperative in order to keep the tributaries in the fold, which in the case of southern Norway appears to have failed.

Until Canute the Great there is little evidence that Denmark was completely unified.
 
Speaking of ships, I think they are too good in general. You are campaigning in Jerusalem and Icelandic count rebels? No problem, load your men into super-ships and attack Vestisland in few weeks! And then go back sieging the holy land! Solution: Maybe smaller naval levies? slower ships? nasty shipwreck events! and naval tech to affect things...

Just slower ships. Thats all they need. Certainly don't need smaller naval levies, they are annoying enough to use as it is.

I think the same, and maybe it would be possible to sail to Red Sea/Indian Ocean this way/through other rivers.

There are non-trivial mountains in the way. So don't count on it.
 
Just slower ships. Thats all they need. Certainly don't need smaller naval levies, they are annoying enough to use as it is.

Slower ships and naval attrition. Just don't make it like it was (where you needed to move many small fleets to avoid it), but a constant monthly/weekly percentage that only (possibly) varies between provinces.
 
If there weren't dozen types of vulgar Latin, we would call vulgar Latin speaking in Italy "middle Latin" anyway. Spaniards and Frenchmen may disagree though.


Yes OK, but what's your point?
'I think it would be cool' is my argument; I'm not trying to make an academic case that classical Latin could be revived. If you disagree, so be it.
 
Mmmmh. One question that popped up: will the West Slavic kingdoms (Pomerania, Poland, Lithuania) be localized differently depending on their "tribe"? Prutenians should form Prutenia or Prussia, not Poland.
 
I would REALLY like the option to, if a Germanic culture or similar ruler conquers Iberia, to be able to form the old Kingdom of the Visigoths. After all, it only fell about 200 years before and their descendants are still not blended in totally.

If Paradox did this I would love it so much! :D