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Doomdark

Chief Creative Officer
Paradox Staff
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Apr 3, 2000
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Yesterday should have been a dev diary day, but I forgot that May 1 is actually some sort of Red holiday, and turning up to work gets you lined up against a wall and shot. However, this is not the time to discuss the mysterious idols, totems and faiths of the previous century. Let us instead think back much further, to simpler - if no less bloody - times, before Socialist May Day, before Christian Walpurgis Night, when the bonfires blazed for the Old Gods...

To begin with, religious Moral Authority has been revamped. The base value is now determined by the number of Holy Sites under the control of the religion. On top of this, there are various timed modifiers (think character opinions) for things like winning or losing holy wars, or building temples. This new system applies to all religions, not just the pagans. The pagan religions do tend to start with fewer Holy Sites under their control, but on the other hand there are no pagan heresies to worry about.

CKII_ToG_DD_04_Holy_Sites.jpg

Now, as mentioned in previous dev diaries, pagans enjoy a number of advantages, but they also suffer from some frustrating limitations. Foremost, perhaps, is that they are stuck with Gavelkind. Pagan vassals are also a lot more suspicious of new rulers on succession (harsher "short reign" opinions), they cannot demand conversion of vassals, and they are easily impressed by the cunning missionaries of the Abrahamic religions. To avoid these problems, pagans can of course simply give up the old ways and convert, but there is another option; pagan religions can be reformed in imitation of those clever monotheists. With a proper church hierarchy, a holy book, and standardized rituals, the pagan religions can become more competitive.

CKII_ToG_DD_04_Great_Holy_War.jpg

Reforming the faith is not easy; you need to control three of the holy sites and have a lot of Piety to boot. After reforming, your faith will be given a religious head. In the case of Norse Pagans, the character who conducted the reformation will become the Fylkir, serving as both secular ruler and religious leader in much the same way as an Islamic Caliph. You may now declare holy wars, both great pagan Crusades and regular religious wars against infidels. Other pagan religions get a vassal religious head, like the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople.

CKII_ToG_DD_04_Fylkirate.jpg

There are tradeoffs to reforming the faith, however. You will lose the Subjugation casus belli and the defensive home attrition, and the unreformed version of your religion will become a heresy (which can cause problems for you.) As a pagan, you will normally want to grow quickly using your invasion and subjugation CBs, and then try to either reform your religion or convert in order to consolidate and stabilize your realm...

That's all for now. Next week's topic is special pagan events and decisions!

[video=youtube;yoF84KVR9F8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoF84KVR9F8[/video]
[video=youtube_share;vYxB1O-XGk0]http://youtu.be/vYxB1O-XGk0[/video]

Bonus! Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods expansion in-depth Q&A at PC Gamer
Everything you want to know, but haven´t dared to ask?
“It’s less than a month until the longships land to bring us The Old Gods, the pagan-focused expansion for Crusader Kings II. We’ve been keeping close tabs on new details at our Viking Analysis Desk, and today, we’ve got some extra meaty details for you. Below you’ll find our massive Q&A with project lead Henrik Fåhraeus, covering everything from concubines to pagan sacred kings.”
Read the full Q&A here: http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/05/01/crusader-kings-2-the-old-gods-in-depth-qa/


Web page: http://www.crusaderkings.com
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/Crusaderkings
Twitter: http://twitter.com/Crusaderkings
 
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the most important question: what about modability? :D

ie., are the effects of religious reformation and non-reformation hard-coded, or can we script them however we like (for example, hypothetically making the "Old Faith" the more peaceful non-war-restless one, while the "Reformed" one the war-happy one? define which laws are available to which "version" of the faith? and the like... ) ?
can the chaplain extra-realm functions also be modded for use by non-Abrahamic faiths, or will they be hardcoded to christianity and islam?
can the new vassals-restless-at-peace mechanic, the Norse radiding mechanic, and similar new mechanics, be scripted to be used by any custom religion we make, or will they be hardcoded to the relevant vanilla religions?

That kind of thing is fully moddable.
 
So how many holy sites are there in all? About how many holy sites do Catholicism & the Muslims have?

All religion have five holy sites.

How are temples/bishoprics treated? What is their succession law?

They are treated like cities/mayors, but females can hold pagan temples.

Do pagans have an excommunication/fatwa equivilent?

Nope

Edit: OK I'll bite - what does that pagan symbol column (currently full of zeros) mean?

Piety you gain from vassal priests.

Will be learn about landless adventurers and the new rebel system at some point?

Of course!
 
Also, will all religions have the same number of holy sites? I'm having trouble thinking of holy sites for catholics other than Rome and Jerusalem.

Five for all religions. However, not all Catholic and Orthdox holy sites are especially holy, really, but central points of worship whose loss would hurt the prestige of the religion.
 
Five for all religions. However, not all Catholic and Orthdox holy sites are especially holy, really, but central points of worship whose loss would hurt the prestige of the religion.
Will it be possible to add more/less holy sites? It'd be nice if a scroll-bar was added if more than 5 were added for example.
Oh, and can the holy sites perhaps be changed by event?
 
So, I suppose the Christian Holy sites will be the patriarchies, is that correct?

No, that would mean that, for example, Catholicism would start at 10% Moral Authority.

And can you reveal what holy sites Islam will have?

For Sunni: Mecca, Medina, Jerusalem, Baghdad and Cordoba.
For Shi'a: Mecca, Medina, Jerusalem, Damascus and Al Nadjaf.
 
Will it be possible to add more/less holy sites? It'd be nice if a scroll-bar was added if more than 5 were added for example.
Oh, and can the holy sites perhaps be changed by event?

Less than five should be possible, but more would not fit the interface.
 
Please Doomdark, which are that christian holy sites?

Catholic: Santiago, Jerusalem, Rome, Canterbury and Cologne
Orthodox: Ephesos, Constantinople, Athens, Jerusalem and Antioch

Subject to change though...
 
Catholic: Santiago, Jerusalem, Rome, Canterbury and Cologne
Orthodox: Ephesos, Constantinople, Athens, Jerusalem and Antioch

Subject to change though...
Are they weighed in any way? I imagine losing Rome would matter a lot more than losing Santiago.
 
also, just a clarification, but is the Fylkir - and reformation-causing-a-ruler-to-be-one, hardcoded for the Norse, or is that also understood to be included in the "That kind of thing is fully moddable." scope? :D

It's moddable.
 
About concubines; if you take a reigning women captive, you can take her as a concubine and any children could in theory inherit both parents' titles. You can take even married women as concubines; the marriage will break.
 
So, the interface in the dev diary will be stretched to include the Pentarchs?

No, the five holy sites are only shown that way for Pagans and Zoroastrians. Others will still see info about them in the Moral Authority tooltip.

Ah, reasonable choices. What about heresies? I assume they will copy the parent religion's holy sites, either automatically or manually (as in just given the same tags). Where are the holy sites configured? Religions or landed_titles?

Heresies have separately scripted holy sites in landed_titles.txt.
 
How often will any events fire to potentially convert pagan rulers? Could I intentionally go and take a bunch of muslim concubines to increase my chances?

If you have a Muslim concubine or wife, you can choose to convert at any time by decision.
 
hopefully at the start date the Zoroastrion religion is already reformed. They had a well documented clerical order, liturgized rites and proper religious structures to boot.

Zoroastrians are not pagans. It's a separate religion group.
 
I'm pretty sure it was mentioned the catholic/orthodox sites were already mentioned to not be equal in weight.
and I'm just guessing, but wouldn't coding a scroll bar be more trouble than worth especially since the GUI elements seem to be .dds pictures rather than dynamic vectors or something :laugh:
Aren't there already some windows where it'll automatically switch to a scrollbar if there's not enough space? The law list for example, and the decisions list.
 
It seemed to me a lack of respect to those who feel the importance of May the 1st as an international holiday.

Anyways, I am not aware of the quality of Scandinavian humor.
Considering Scandinavia is rather big on worker rights, I think it is safe to assume that it was purely a joke.
 
Could we get the Pagans to take on a different name after reforming (either by default or by modding)?

For example, if I want Norse to become Asatru upon reformation, could I make that happen?

Also, will we be getting more varied symbols for the various Pagans?

Yes, modding this would be very easy and the pagan religions have been given unique symbols.