• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Hello, I'm Crusader Kings II developer Goosecreature. You may remember me from such Developer Diaries as "Events and Decisions" and "The Heathens are Coming." Today I'll be talking a bit about - you guessed it - the events and decisions of The Old Gods. This expansion will introduce many of these and not just for the Vikings.

As a Norse Pagan, you can hold a blot every nine years during winter. This is a good way of making your vassals like you more, and it is somewhat similar to a feast with one big difference – the human sacrifice. During a blot, four random prisoners will be brought up from your dungeon and you will have to decide whether or not to sacrifice them to the Allfather for prestige and piety. If you have no prisoners, some nameless thralls will be sacrificed instead but this won't bring you nearly as much renown. Anyone can be sacrificed, including close family members, but you will earn extra piety if your victim is a Christian or a Muslim. These are harsh times and the world is not a friendly place.

View attachment CKII_ToG_DD_05_Blot_Sacrifice.jpg

Another way of increasing your prestige is to commission a runestone. This can be done only once in a character's lifetime, and you can choose to devote it either to yourself or one of your parents. The Scandinavian dueling tradition of holmgång is also in the game, and Norse characters can, under certain circumstances, challenge each other to single combat on an isolated islet. There are also events for Norse characters leaving to join the Varangian Guard, the discovery of Greenland and Vinland, characters gaining the Viking or Berserker traits, the appearance of the Jomsvikings and the Seljuks, völur (mystic seers) joining your court, and many more.

View attachment CKII_ToG_DD_05_Holmgang.jpg

The Mongols will have a decision to hold the nerge, a great hunt in which most of their army participates. This is in essence a massive military training exercise that sees the different wings of the Mongol army coordinating maneuvers and driving wildlife before them in close formation. Once encircled, the wildlife is killed and the army gains both provisions and invaluable experience working together as a single fighting force. Doing this will give your armies a morale boost.

Suomenusko pagans will be able to hold the Ukon Juhla festival, where they worship the god Ukko in the hope of improving their harvests. For Romuva pagans, the Užgavenes festival can be held in spring, where effigies to winter are burnt and the coming of summer is celebrated. Finally, Slavic pagans can hold a festival in the name of the god Jarilo, in which a random vassal is given the honor of representing Jarilo and paraded around wearing bells and other glamorous clothing.

View attachment CKII_ToG_DD_05_Jarilo.jpg

This doesn't cover everything, but as I wanted to write a bit about something else, it will have to do for now.

There have been a lot of requests for us to go into more detail on the Zoroastrians, which is something we hadn't originally planned to do for the Dev Diaries. In order to please YOU (yes, you in particular), the next part of this diary will be devoted to them.

For those who aren't familiar with it, Zoroastrianism is an ancient religion that originated in Persia. It predates the Abrahamic faiths by quite a bit, and was the state religion of the Achaemenid, Parthian and Sassanid empires. Its decline as a major religion came with the Arab invasion of Persia and the spread of Islam in the 7th century, but pockets would still remain in the Central Asian hinterlands of the former Sassanid Empire centuries later.

View attachment CKII_ToG_DD_05_Zoroastrian_Persia.jpg

By 867, the common folk in several parts of Persia still cling to Zoroastrianism but they are the subjects of Muslim rulers and their conversion to the Mohammedan faith is only a matter of time. Just north of these domains, along the eastern shores of the Caspian Sea, Satrap Vandad of the Karen dynasty rules the last independent Zoroastrian realm on the map. This is a challenging starting position and reclaiming Persia and its holy sites for the Zoroastrian faith will not be easy, but it can be done.

Zoroastrianism is not a member of the Pagan religious group, and so they have no need to reform their religion. They will start the game in 867 without a High Priest, but if you hold the Persian Empire there is a decision to restore the position of the Moabadan-Moabad (the Priest of Priests). Just like the Pope, this priest can grant divorces and sanction invasions against other Zoroastrian realms. You'll probably be the only one at this point, so this likely won't do you much good unless your carefully built Zoroastrian empire fragments in civil war.

Also, Zoroastrian rulers are able to enter holy marriages with close relatives of the opposite gender. Such a sacred union will increase their standing among vassals, but producing a healthy heir may become a problem... fortunately, you can always fall back on your concubines for that.

View attachment CKII_ToG_DD_05_The_Zoroastrian_Church.jpg

If you manage to stage a miraculous Zoroastrian recovery and reclaim the Persian Empire, you will have the option of declaring yourself the Saoshyant, the chosen savior of the world mentioned in prophecy by Zoroaster himself. This will not only earn you a new nickname, but you will also get a new trait that significantly boosts the opinion of all Zoroastrian characters towards you. All future descendants of the Saoshyant will also get a less powerful version of this trait, even if they convert to a different religion.

That's all I have for now. I hope you'll have a pleasant Wednesday!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Nope. I'm pretty sure I meant what I said. I don't know jack about Zoroastrianism.
Ah, yes, I misread your post. Sorry about that.
A problem is that a large Rus kingdom makes it too hard to form for most, and then too easy to de jure war for the remaining land once formed, which is probably why it was split in the first place.
I'm pretty sure that's it. Otherwise, Rus would just be too big.
 
Might have been in XIII century I don't remember it sadly. Though my point about heretics for pagans was that they already have reformation and christian missionaries so maybe heretics would be too much.
Too much?
Never! There can never be too much!
 
Impressive Dev. Diary, it peaks my anticipation! I have to say though, this might mean trouble for EU4 in the long run. The bar in the religious issue has been set high now, and i can't see how a worldwide game will be able to incorporate the mechanism, while nothing less would be acceptable any more....
 
A problem is that a large Rus kingdom makes it too hard to form for most, and then too easy to de jure war for the remaining land once formed, which is probably why it was split in the first place.

Well, yes, but where is the problem with that? Rus was hard to unite most of the time (first point), but a capable Grand Prince in Kiev could do it during his lifetime (Vladimir Monomakh). Ideal scenario: hard to re-create, possible to re-establish control relatively quickly (why bother with de jure re-conquests, same religion, same family usually submits without a fight, rather historical), hard to keep together.

The last point... Paradox should work on making larger entities fall apart easier... HRE, ERE, united Rus.... Empires should rise and fall, as they did (HRE, Seljuks, ERE, Angevin, Rus, even Mongol) historically during the timeframe. As opposed to, empires should rise and keep on rising.

More duchies in one kingdom-tier Rus would actually be a good thing then. No empire of Britannia would help Angevin "empire" fall easier. Etc, etc, etc.
 
Well, yes, but where is the problem with that? Rus was hard to unite most of the time (first point), but a capable Grand Prince in Kiev could do it during his lifetime (Vladimir Monomakh). Ideal scenario: hard to re-create, possible to re-establish control relatively quickly (why bother with de jure re-conquests, same religion, same family usually submits without a fight, rather historical), hard to keep together.

Precisely because of your next point, which strongly implies that the large empires don't fall very easily. I'm all for things which encourage it, but it's not the case at the moment.

On top of that, as I mentioned, having de jure claims over such a large area is quite powerful, as once you control half of Rus (where Ruthenia is included), it's a trifling matter to conquer the others - or even obtain for vassalisation outright. In earlier versions, the entire Rus could be formed far too quickly and easily because of this, and then stays a blob until the Mongols arrive. This is compounded by the fact that a king whose realm consists solely of one county still has de jure claims over the rest of the kingdom until someone collectively holds enough to usurp.

Because in RL it wasn't, right?

I would imagine this was meant in a similar way to how I intend it: too big from a gameplay point of view with regards to de jure claims, etc.
 
It now clearly seems that this DLC is something much more bigger than any other CK2 DLCs! Great job, many hours of work surelly was spend on this project but im sure it will be a huge success. Not only u expand the game "horizontally" (more playable realms, more options) but also "vertically" (more game mechanics, more available actions and interactions, more "depth" to sepcific cultures, religions). Good job and keep it up!
 
Does new nerge decision for Tengri influence attrition? And: with this DLC, will the Mongol „no attrition” gimmstick vanish (possibly replaced by decision to hunt or sth)?
 
Here's an idea for a heresy that's, like, totally plausible. Honest.

The backstory for Sunset Islands has the Aztecs learning shipbuilding from the Norse, right? Well I'm thinking there must have been other cultural exchanges going on. Religious exchanges. Perhaps even resulting in some unholy amalgamation of Aztec and Norse religion...

All Hail Odinlipoca!
 
Precisely because of your next point, which strongly implies that the large empires don't fall very easily. I'm all for things which encourage it, but it's not the case at the moment.

On top of that, as I mentioned, having de jure claims over such a large area is quite powerful, as once you control half of Rus (where Ruthenia is included), it's a trifling matter to conquer the others - or even obtain for vassalisation outright. In earlier versions, the entire Rus could be formed far too quickly and easily because of this, and then stays a blob until the Mongols arrive. This is compounded by the fact that a king whose realm consists solely of one county still has de jure claims over the rest of the kingdom until someone collectively holds enough to usurp.

I would imagine this was meant in a similar way to how I intend it: too big from a gameplay point of view with regards to de jure claims, etc.

Ok, how about this solution (not being sarcastic, btw): instead of two kingdom-tiers, let's create several: Grand Principality of Kiev, G.P. Galich-Volyhnia, Chernigov, Vladimir (Vladimir-Suzdal or Rostov or Muscowy), Polotsk and Novgorod. If Bavaria could be a kingdom, so could Chernigov. Then Rus becomes an empire title.

I think I covered all six major centers of Rus here (not cities, territories). Feel free to add more, of course.
 
Sounds very interesting. I'm a bit sad that it seems like the Finnish and Baltic and Slavic pagans just have a unique festival thingy, and we still don't know much about the West African pagans, but otherwise it looks very interesting.

I' particularly impressed with the fact that the Zoroastrian clergy will get the actual white robes worn by Zoroastrian clergy.


Also, did anyone figure out what that new trait is in the first screenshot?
 
Courland also did some raiding.
Well anyway this part of region in game is a big mess anyway and most buyers of this game are westerners (I guess) and they mostly care only about muh vikings on this DLC. It's only marketing though.

Whoa, there, whoa. I'm a westerner and I care more for every other pagan than the Vikings. 'Cause even if they were great seafarers they didn't do anything like discover China or hell even India, they discovered Ice and Nova Scotia, as a rule in Ck it's not what you get it's what you keep and they couldn't keep neither one.

So therefore I'll take my horses as Tengri, and shoot all the damn Vikings, and -bleep-slap their women. 'Cause I hate hype for one type of pagans, because of a History Channel show.

As I said in another post people on horseback can get stuff done.

Not saying I don't like the other pagans, but.... Tengri and Mongols.
 
Last edited:
Looks nice. I just hope Suomenusko gets more decisions and flavor events. Especially karhunpeijaiset. For reference, check this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peijaiset
(pretty stripped down compared to the Finnish page on the matter)

Basically it's a funeral-celebration for bears, sometimes functioning as a symbolical marriage to the bear by a maiden. Supposedly an extremely important pagan finnish rite, active even in the 17th century according to contemporary sources.

Would surely be a good thing to include for Suomenusko, wink wink, nudge nudge. ;)
(also check this for reference http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bear_worship )
 
How important were the west african pagans, and how much was already muslim in 867? To be honest, I (for one) couldn't care less about the african pagans.
If I'm not much mistaken at least one county in Peloponnes should be Greek Pagan in 867, now that we are talking about insignificant small pagan religions. :eek:
Various forms of African paganism still exist today, and Malinese pagans were playing a significant role in civil wars throughout the CK2 period. I'd expect Ghana to be pagan-ruled in 867, and for count level pagans to last well into the CK2 period. I don't know if they'll group the Canaries in or not (they were completely different culturally and religiously, but Paradox may not want to spend resources developing a single-province religion), but they remained independent pagans until the 1400s.

Compare that with Zoroastrianism (dying out already in 867), much less with a sub-county level area that may have had some peasant remnants of a debased form of Greek paganism.