Hey folks, it is dev diary day and time to talk a bit about rebels and adventurers! Let's start off with the rebels; as you know, the old rebels are a nuisance but they are easily defeated and even if they hold a county for a long time, defection is rare. Sure, they sometimes kill a local ruler, but even that is uncommon. This is a shame, especially since we have explored better ways of handling rebels in the In Nomine expansion to Europa Universalis III and in Victoria II. So, for The Old Gods, we are replacing the old simplistic system with proper rebels with a cause (if you don't have the expansion, you will be stuck with the old system.) There are three new types of rebels: peasants, heretics and "liberators". As before, they can appear if the revolt risk is higher than 0 in a county. If the county is of a heretic religion, heretic rebels may appear. If the county is in a kingdom occupied by foreigners, liberators may rise up. If the other two types are not suitable, it's going to be a peasant revolt.



The new types of rebels all have a leader with a temporary title. They start at war with the ruler of the realm in which they appear, but they are hostile to everyone. Fighting them is like fighting a normal war; you get war score for crushing their army. If peasant or heretic rebels win, the county will be taken and becomes independent under their leader. Liberators are more dangerous; they tend to rise up with the best and largest forces, and they are after the entire de jure kingdom. However, they typically tend to settle for a few counties and the title to the kingdom itself. The system is fully moddable and it is pretty straightforward to add new rebel types.



This brings us to adventurers. The concept is quite similar to the rebels, but adventures are started by existing characters and can target distant lands. There are two main types; claimants with no titles who stand to inherit nothing, and men of major dynasties with no claims but high martial and diplomatic skill. In both cases, the adventurer lets it be known that he is starting an adventure and gathering a host (both his current liege(s) and the target ruler are notified). After a year or two, he is given a temporary duchy title, an army, and a fleet. War is declared, and he goes after the target. Claimants, of course, will try to press their claim, but the other type simply target a juicy duchy somewhere and go off to seize it (like the d'Hautevilles took southern Italy). A savvy player who is targetted may of course assassinate the adventurer before he arrives with his army... Characters of certain cultures are more likely to go off on claimless adventures, e.g. Normans and Norse.



Speaking of Norse and Norman, another thing I believe we haven't mentioned yet are the new cultures we've added: Norse, Bolghar, Khazar, Mordvin, Samoyed and Avar. In 867, all Scandinavians are of the Norse culture, but there are events that will initiate a split into Swedish, Danish and Norwegian. Independent Norse rulers outside Scandinavia will not be affected. Determined players can also choose to stay Norse and attempt to educate children of vassals to stick to this culture. Similarly, there are events for the appearance of Norman culture, which is formed by Norse conquerors in Frankish, Breton or Occitan lands. (Yes, we could have done this for any number of cultures in the game, but it is quite a lot of work. It is, of course, also fully moddable.)



That sums it up for today! Next Wednesday will see the last dev diary for The Old Gods expansion and will feature the new technology system and what other tidbits remain.

Bonus, in case you missed it

Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods Video Dev Diary 2 - Rebels
[video=youtube;eo7ttCKInYM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eo7ttCKInYM[/video]

 

[Lord Xia]

So, is it confirmed that the rebellion mechanic will be for TOG-owners only, like was said in the video dev diary?
I certainly hope not, as it sounds like a major balancing mechanic, and one that will cause significant differences between campaigns with and without it.
And hey, surely pagans and the 867 start should be plenty to sell the DLC?

It's in the OP.

 

[Meneth]

It's in the OP.

From what I can see it is never mentioned in the OP whether the feature will the TOG-only or not.
The closest would be "So, for The Old Gods, we are replacing the old simplistic system", but that could mean either the DLC or in the patch alongside it.

 

[Bad_Haggis]

It's DLC only, says in the video.

 

[Lord Xia]

So, for The Old Gods, we are replacing the old simplistic system with proper rebels with a cause (if you don't have the expansion, you will be stuck with the old system.)

Maybe I am reading that wrong, but it seems to answer the question.

 

[Meneth]

It's DLC only, says in the video.

As my question said: "So, is it confirmed that the rebellion mechanic will be for TOG-owners only, like was said in the video dev diary?"

Because frankly, keeping such a mechanic DLC-only is a terrible idea.
It means that either Paradox will have to try to balance the game around both it being and not being present, or balance the game around only it being present, making people who don't own the DLC worse off, and essentially reducing the worth of the balance feedback of a considerable part of the community.
This is quite similar to how retinues are limited to Legacy of Rome owners only. Retinues make rebelling vassals much easier to deal with, and is a mechanic that republics are seemingly built around as they have trade post and family palace buildings that give retinues. So someone might have an entirely different opinion on how strong republics are based on them owning or not owning an unrelated piece of DLC.

Maybe I am reading that wrong, but it seems to answer the question.

Ah, I didn't see the later bit somehow.
Still, terrible idea :/

 

[cybrxkhan]

Interesting. Will the Adventurers be coded to favor attacking certain provinces, regions, or kingdoms/empires?

 

[Blastaz]

Ah, I didn't see the later bit somehow.
Still, terrible idea :/

Not really in MP the host chooses what DLCs to use and everyone else follows suit, so there is no balance to worry about.

For SP I doubt its going to make too much difference...

 

[Meneth]

Because frankly, keeping such a mechanic DLC-only is a terrible idea.
It means that either Paradox will have to try to balance the game around both it being and not being present, or balance the game around only it being present, making people who don't own the DLC worse off, and essentially reducing the worth of the balance feedback of a considerable part of the community.
This is quite similar to how retinues are limited to Legacy of Rome owners only. Retinues make rebelling vassals much easier to deal with, and is a mechanic that republics are seemingly built around as they have trade post and family palace buildings that give retinues. So someone might have an entirely different opinion on how strong republics are based on them owning or not owning an unrelated piece of DLC.

To elaborate on one of the reasons why I think it is such a bad idea to limit the new rebellion mechanics to DLC-owners only:
It will essentially make my mod considerably worse for anyone not using the DLC. My goal is historical plausibility, and all mechanics affect this in some way. As a result I'll be balancing around the new rebellion mechanic being there, giving an experience as expected for people who own the DLC.
People who don't own the DLC however, will end up playing a mod based around a mechanic they do not have. Historical plausibility will as a result be off the mark as it was based on tests with this mechanic. The mod will therefore be worse than it should've been for these people.

The exact same thing applies to vanilla. Presumably Paradox will be balancing and tweaking things based on this mechanic being in place. The balancing will therefore be off for people who don't own the DLC. A particularly good example of this is Legacy of Rome; if you don't have it there won't be any retinues, and as a result merchant republics will be quite a bit weaker than they are with the DLC, as they have buildings that are supposed to give them retinues.

And of course, surely the 867 start and Pagans should be plenty to sell the DLC without tying major balancing mechanics to it as well.

 

[nyah]

It will essentially make my mod considerably worse for anyone not using the DLC.

Couldn't you release two versions?

 

[Meneth]

Couldn't you release two versions?

Unless Paradox can provide me with a way to clone myself, I cannot test two versions of the mod at once.

 

[Logos88]

Do we still get any free feature with the patch?

 

[nyah]

Unless Paradox can provide me with a way to clone myself, I cannot test two versions of the mod at once.

I'm sure there'd be a way involving rubber bands, paperclips, a broken grandfather clock, a talking grasshopper, and lots and lots of coffee. If anyone can figure it out Johan can!

 

[unmerged(80402)]

Idea : Let peasant revolt. Play as them.

 

[grisamentum]

The Khazar Khagans were Jews. Maybe a load of their population too, but that still is only one or two counties. Furthermore, there's absolutely no need for Jewish courtiers, since everything that they could do can be accomplished with realm events. The Kingdom of Semien is, AFAIK, outside the map. If it were in but Paradox made the Beta-Israel Gentile, then I'd agree that PDS were discriminating.

One or two counties?? Maybe by 1066, yeah! In 867 and probably until the 960s, the Khazar Khaganate was a relatively large power between the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea. And besides, Beta Israel is within the map.

Since the Khazar Khaganate is going to be Tengri in game, even when it should be Jewish, you agree that "PDS is discriminating", right? Since that's exactly the same logic you just applied to Beta Israel.

I mean, honestly, I don't think "discriminating" is the right word. I'd say sloppy, wrong, and possibly cowardly (depending on to what extent they are doing this because they're afraid of offending Jews.) Discrimination is really unlikely - what, they're going to write Jews out of medieval history because they don't like them? It doesn't make sense. Laziness doesn't make sense either, since it would be so incredibly trivial to just add a Judaism that has no special features (just like Islam was until SoI, Orthodox until LoR, and every paganism and Zoroastrianism until ToG). The only explanation that makes sense to me a weird fear on the part of PDS.

 

[Kagernaut]

RELEASE THIS NOW!!!

ARRGGHHH!!

Man, I want to start a game as a norse pagan and conquer scandinavia.....you can't expect me to wait til May 28!

 

[ChildeR]

Do we still get any free feature with the patch?

I'm fairly sure the pagan mechanics will all be there with the patch, just not playable. That means Christians will get to try to convert the heathens, for example.

Edit: Oh and the new tech system. They'll showcase it next week and probably mention if it's DLC only, but I very much doubt it.

 

[Lord Xia]

One or two counties?? Maybe by 1066, yeah! In 867 and probably until the 960s, the Khazar Khaganate was a relatively large power between the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea. And besides, Beta Israel is within the map.

Since the Khazar Khaganate is going to be Tengri in game, even when it should be Jewish, you agree that "PDS is discriminating", right? Since that's exactly the same logic you just applied to Beta Israel.

I mean, honestly, I don't think "discriminating" is the right word. I'd say sloppy, wrong, and possibly cowardly (depending on to what extent they are doing this because they're afraid of offending Jews.) Discrimination is really unlikely - what, they're going to write Jews out of medieval history because they don't like them? It doesn't make sense. Laziness doesn't make sense either, since it would be so incredibly trivial to just add a Judaism that has no special features (just like Islam was until SoI, Orthodox until LoR, and every paganism and Zoroastrianism until ToG). The only explanation that makes sense to me a weird fear on the part of PDS.

Completely agree.

 

[3inar]

Pretty sure it's already been confirmed they won't. They are landless after all.

Actualy you can play a "landless character".

I Always create my own copy when I use a mod or the original game where I create a character and a Mercenary Company(without any Soldiers in it, or verry few to simulate a adventurer Group). I make this Mercenary Company a vassal of a King witch is located in the area I whant to start playing in. Now I can go to the startingscreen and choos the King witch I made him vassal to and choos the mercenary captain(I Always make a new title so he isent called captain for estetic resons).

The problem I dont find fun with this is there is a risk that if you bring foreighn characters to your Court they will inherit the "mercenary Company title" instead and you will be forced to play a different dynasty(game does not end). So I tend to not accept any characters untill I have gained a province.
Also Another problem is when you have gotten your first county you still are a duke and no way of removing the title so you can be a propper Count, if you like to work your way upp from the bottom.

This brings me to my question as it was stated:

The new types of rebels all have a leader with a temporary title.

Wold the temporary title be possible to use on different titles than the Rebels?

And if this is the case we culd have something like a player starting as a "duke, aka a landless character" who will loose his title when he gain his county.

This Wold make alot of peaple happy becous I Think many peaple realy Wold like to start from the bottom and crawl out of the gutter and upp to the highest of Towers.

 

[Meneth]

They'll showcase it next week and probably mention if it's DLC only, but I very much doubt it.

Until they said the new rebellion feature was DLC-only I very much doubted that to be the case.
So you never know.

 

[MaximumFailure]

So, will the adventurers be playable or not?

Actually, yes. You can play as mercenary company, or anything that happens to be feudal, by using the play (charid) command. Therefore, you can switch to any adventurer that gets spawned, since they have a title that probably defaults to open elective, or simply open, both of which count as feudal law systems that can be played. This is only the case, however, if the title of (name's) Host is considered feudal.

Anyways, looks awesome.