Dev Corner | Thermodynamics

[Kennigsta]

Glad you have finally decided to rework economy laws.
However, for now it seems that civ eco/early mob will become "war eco", because of energy reduction for mils, thus, higher output. And war eco will become construction eco (you can even call it "civ eco") because of high CF reduction.
So, balance this will be pretty hard, I guess.

 

[BabyBuffalo]

Is there any chance that Synthetic Refineries get a bonus when provided with coal? As far as I’m aware, synthetic oil was primarily created by Coal Liquifaction so it seems like a waste not to have them interact in some way. At the same time though, I totally understand that “exchanging” resources could be a balancing nightmare.

Still, I’m excited to see it in action!

EDIT: I think the simplest way would be a tech or focus reward that gives synthetics a local bonus that provides, say, +5% fuel production for every X coal in the state?

 

[James_Renkov]

So I saw lower economy laws will affect coal differently but imo most players probably would rather just have access to more factories and then buy coal to makeup for their loss unless their is a better incentive like for civilian economy imo you should build civs faster not slower

 

[ZetaScirata]

Sirs, I have a small question. What about making "Civilian Economy" be used for build up? Because historically speaking, nations were mostly not mobilised for production ( not like USSR )

Maybe civilian economy can be used for "civilian buildup" - bonuses for infrastructure, supply chains, airfields, civilian factories;
Whilst each Mobilisation will gradually give more bonuses for military stuff and less for civilian eco? It would make a lot of sense


Also, if X country has no Energy, will it suffer debuffs to population growth, mobilisation rates etc?

 

[ZetaScirata]

Are there any plans to limit the number of divisions fielded by the player and AI? It could be tied to the number of available factories or perhaps a new resource, like food or grain. It also could improve performance a lot

I personally would love to see "good". It was a reason some nations went to war. Hitler himself expressed that once

 

[Airl]

Does coal make sense as a strategic resource? I remember a while ago someone mentioned adding coal to the game and a dev replied that if they were to add another strategic resource, it'd probably be copper or something similar because coal was never particularly scarce.

 

[SAS-2600]

Step in the right direction, now I suggest you add the ability to change trade policies by resource type to avoid exporting resources u need and perhaps let us get paid for exports via coal instead of civilian factories? Because how would that work, you'd pay to upkeep a factory that is someone else's and being given to you as payment for the trade? Sometimes that would still be worth it for higher IC but other times not at all, if you get my meaning

 

[rhuan]

Luxembourg DLC revealed?

 

[Antasil]

Party pooper here. I'm not too keen on adding more economic complexity to a warfare simulator. What added value will this get us? Where is the fun in this? Also, please do make sure this doesn't disproportionally hurt minors, since they are currently the most fun to play. Thanks!

 

[Tehrozer]

Hi this looks like a great addition but I have some questions from the side of how this looks from the code side:

Any chance of adding a new factory output modifier that automatically applies a corresponding increase in energy demand to cut down on having to set them separately in all effects? It would be a nice quality of life change for any code work that will have to happen due to this.

Will we be getting a way to modify ratio of distribution of energy across different factory types? If not a outright mechanic then at least just a coded modifier that can be used in mods.

What kind of special modifiers are we getting for energy production will we be able to add in modifiers to say efficiency of production of energy from single coal etc?

The way this is shown seems to suggest that energy is generated entirely off-map and that thus there is no way to bomb enemy energy production to ruin their industry? (Outside of maybe attacking Dams which I hope will now produce energy too)

Will states with coal production get a bonus to local factory output to represent closeness to resources making it easier and cheaper to set up industry?

Will energy be transmitted straight to factories or like with research facilities there will be some system so that energy distribution interacts with supply system. Something like local state infrastructure/railroad level impacting how much energy is given to all buildings in the state? On that point will there be anyway to actually impact local energy in states or is it all done on scale of TAGs as a whole?

And lastly is there any plan to add in other resources in the future or is the dev team set on the ones we have + coal/energy?

 

[dididiipro]

With energy capacity/coal now affecting the efficiency of your economy will this lead to modifications in some national ideas like. for a completely unrelated example, Italy?

IE: Italy starts with national spirits that reduce the efficacy of its industry BUT if Italy were to now start with a coal deficit negatively impacting its industrial efficacy then these two negative modifiers combined could be devastating. So will there be a rebalancing of some of these modifiers? Ideally I would prefer these negative economic modifiers to be modeled through this system rather than an abstracted national spirit; otherwise players may have to contend with an economic situation that negatively hampers their economy and overcoming that economic situation still leaves them markedly weaker than nations without such economic concerns.

Likewise I also think this system could be a big boon to countries that are economically weaker in game than they should be (IE: France)

 

[Rycestealer]

Wow, you chosen to copy paste Black Ice this time. Good job.

Bice and world ablaze did it better

 

[Tumon]

If you missed the previous Dev Corner, check it out here!


Briefing: Thermodynamics
Author: @Zwirbaum

Hello everyone!

It has been eight days since the last dev corner, which means it is time for another one. Last time, I was talking about some of the new naval concepts and changes coming to the Hearts of Iron IV. Today I will be talking about the introduction of Coal and Energy into the game. As a casual reminder keep in mind that everything discussed here is in a relatively early stage, and as such is subject to change.I also want to add that not every dev corner will be a long one, and some may end up on a rather short side. But without further ado, let’s keep this lump of coal rolling.

For the first time since the launch of the game we will be adding a new resource to the game, as every other resource, Steel, Rubber, Tungsten, Chromium, Aluminium and Oil were since day 1 in-game (with Oil getting Facelift in Man the Guns to be used for Fuel production instead of equipment production). This resource is Coal - to put it very briefly it will be serving as a ‘fuel’ in the form of Energy for your industry to keep it running efficiently.

Core Concept​

What are some of the goals when it comes to adding Coal & Energy, and what do we want to achieve with it?

• We want to introduce a potential soft-limit on the current almost limitless industrial expansion.
• Increase importance on expanding and securing a resource base for your needs.
• Provide a bit more interesting choices when it comes to economic laws, give some incentive for a player to consider ‘demobilize’ at some point during the gameplay, and that War Economy / Total Mobilization is not always the one and the only one right choice.
• We are not aiming at creating a super complicated or overly complex system for energy/economy model

What is all the fuse about?

View attachment 1324163
Sardinia starts with 2 units of Coal at the beginning of the game. As usual, numbers are subject to change, so please do not despair yet.

Base Concept​

So the system works like this: Coal is excavated just like every other resource in-game. Each unit of Coal that you have for your own use (so not traded away) will produce a set amount of Energy, which then in turn is used to power up your industry - your civilian, military factories and naval dockyards, which for the ease I’ll be later calling them in this dev corner as ‘factory’. Each Factory, regardless of the type, has the same base Energy demand, so what you are seeing in the top bar as your industry size should also give you a very rough estimate of the demand.

View attachment 1324164
This totally mysterious country, that is totally unrelated to Sardinia from the previous screenshot starts with 56 factories, and now has a mysterious bar under the factory count.

Economy of the Scale​

However the base Energy demand is not everything, as each Factory you own will also introduce a little extra scaling cost to the demand per factory, so a small, undeveloped minor country will be able to sustain their few factories with a rather small amount of coal, while historically accurate Luxembourg spanning across Eurasia will require much more energy in order to effectively satisfy the ever hungry maw of their Industry.

Lower Mobilization Law is your friend?​

Most, if not all, economic laws will also have factory energy consumption modifiers, which will essentially either increase or decrease how much each factory (including the ‘scaled’ portion from ‘size’ of the industry) will demand energy. Higher mobilization laws will have higher energy demand, to represent longer working hours, more shifts etc.

View attachment 1324165
Economy Law picker will also now proudly display the energy consumption modifier at the first glance, so that you do not need to scour through the tooltip to find the modifier. Before you start going crazy with guessing what is the second number, it is just the expected amount of consumer goods - the icon is currently placeholderish, as we haven’t adjusted the previous icon yet.

How does it work though?​

I will start with a quick reminder how the Civilian, Naval and Military Industry operate in-game currently. Essentially each of the ‘factories’ have a specific base amount of output valued in points that they contribute daily to. (5, 2.5 and 4.5 respectively). And that was further modified by all the technologies, laws, ideas, ministers, national spirits with various ‘Construction Speed’ or ‘Dockyard/Factory outputs’ modifiers. I am not mentioning Production Efficiency, as that was unique to the Military Factories.

So how will that operate in the brave new world? We will now have a base output for each of the industry types - which means that regardless of the energy, you will always have at least this much output from your factories. And there will be ‘fully powered’ output values for the industry. Depending on the energy ratio you are providing, you will end up somewhere on that scale, e.g. If you have 50% energy - you will be getting output that is ‘50%’ way from the base output to the fully powered up. All the previously mentioned Construction Speed, Dockyard/Factory Output modifiers will also be scaled accordingly to the % of the energy you have.

View attachment 1324166
This is the current debug display that allows us to see energy demand & consumption, and how much it impacts the industry. In this case we have 26.7% energy needs satisfied, and it means that each of our CICs provide 4.2 IC daily, MIC provides 3.7 IC daily and NIC provides 2.1 IC daily. Of course as usual, reminder that all values are subject to change.

Wrapping Up​

And that is all from this dev corner. While this post is one the shorter side, impact from adding this ‘system’ could of course be quite big - however thanks to covering only this one matter, feedback, opinions, suggestions from you dear readers, should be laser-focused and allow us to get a much clearer picture of what you are thinking. Anyways, that is all from me for this week, and next week Thomas will be back with more things to say about the Factions.

Thanks for reading, and until next time, farewell!

/Zwirbaum

Will the soviet union be filled with coal and allow that in the "german soviet treaty" which resembles the real life treaty of resources from the soviets to germany during the blitzkrieg will now have coal added as part of this as it did historically?

 

[rhuan]

Am i seeing the return of the diplomacy tab after many DLCs ? Long time no see, old friend...

 

[Metz]

Can you build power plants for more energy? And will dams generate energy as well? This would give more reasons for raids.

Does this mean we can make more steel ourselves if the country historically had iron?

 

[Demonthese]

Can you prioritize energy consumption to different factory types or is it always evenly distributed?

 

[Rs_Gaming]

Will we be able to prioritize energy for the Mils, Civs, and Dockyards? The same way as we can prioritize fuel for the Army, Navy, and Airforce?

 

[zhaidangv]

Depending on the energy ratio you are providing, you will end up somewhere on that scale, e.g. If you have 50% energy - you will be getting output that is ‘50%’ way from the base output to the fully powered up.

For now, how much is this "base output"?

 

[Zwirbaum]

Can you prioritize energy consumption to different factory types or is it always evenly distributed?

ATM equal distribution

 

[TechGlitchReporter]

Will we have coal refining techs, similar to the fuel refining ones, increasing the energy gained per coal? I think this would be a really good addition.