Dev Diary #108: Dev Diary Scheduling & Community Activities

[DinoMight]

Not trying to be rude here, so please excuse me for being direct: after last week's "look forward to the next Update from us as it should have more information on the work we have been doing!", I expected a little bit more than basically "we're working on stuff, and it's not gonna release this year".

I'm well aware of the limitations you have regarding sharing the exact nature of the exciting new content you're working on, but this is the second week in a row that is a bit lacking content-wise.

It's a stark contrast to the Stellaris DevDiaries; they have more than one per week, and all full of new and upcoming content. When I think back to pre-RC times, when you guys even shared little sneak peeks during summer break with us, I can't help but notice the apparent drop in quality and quantity of CK3 DDs. Makes me wonder what happened between then and now.

Anyway, I appreciate the declaration of transparency and am looking forward to next week's DD.

my man is reading my mind


"Of course, if you’re experiencing any issues, pop over to the Bug Forums and report them: Link
As of the newly released 1.7.1, we’ve concluded the planned updates for this release, though if something significant appears, we’ll look into fixing it before the next update."

you cannot be serious with this? there is still so many buggs... which mind you, you seldom address and we really need more bugfixes, there are some very long standing bugs, ofc we are experiencing issues, we are reporting them every day...
...
and we get some "free content"... maybe?!?! this year??? when we really need more content after two years, we get a maybe? i personally think there should be "free" content added, you do it with your other IPs, and every other normal AAA game on the market has updates which add content/fix it regularly
this is a PDX flagship game...

you really cannot be serious with this... give us bugg fixes at least, we are literally waiting 2 years for it....

 

[DinoMight]

I disagree completely. But honestly, it doesn't even matter if you are right or I am right.

Gaming is about the experience, and it seems a fact that a lot of people experienced CK2 to offer varied and fulfilling gameplay for a long period of time, while a significant amount of people experience CK3 to do the opposite (or at least far less so than CK2).

Now we can debate the technicalities, whether CK2 play styles really really were different, or "just looked different." But who cares? People enjoyed those play styles more, and regardless of whether that was because of different looks or "real" differences, that's an example of successful game design that was enjoyed by the players.

my man

 

[DinoMight]

Ordinarily, I'd be in this thread pushing back against some of the more over-the-top negative posts and trying to encourage a bit of perspective.

But, honestly, what's the point?

We were told a couple of weeks back that there was a recognition that communication had been poor and plans were being put in place to improve. And now this.

Genuinely just feeling really disappointed and let down.

welcome to the club, i hope more people wakes up

 

[kawamuratc]

My point was that despite what the marketing material is and despite your opinions on the intentions of the “game design” no one is forcing you to do anything. Yes, the game seems geared towards growth, gaining more land and higher titles, but you do not have to do that. Me making this statement does not mean that I am not aware that there is less content for vassal play, for playing as a count, a tall but powerful Duke, or an independent King that just can’t bring his realm to a stable enough place to be proclaimed emperor. In fact, if you look at one of my previous posts I acknowledge to Insidious his point of this very lack of content. Still, my point remains, no one is making you become an emperor god incest ruler of the map. If you don’t want to, then don’t. If you want to play a vassal, do so and fill in the gaps with role play. I do believe there are ways to play that aren’t “incest cults” or immediately running towards emperor as I’ve played games where I intentionally do not make Herculean family members and I avoid the collection of titles to become emperor (sometimes simply by letting partition (as flawed as it my be) do its job)). The entire game is about freedom to do as you please with your characters (as stated by the devs pre-release) and that goes for players who want a more grounded play through and players who want to be the God Empress of a reformed female preference Muslim caliphate full of perfect physical specimens.

Exactly.

There’s so much freedom in this game. I like collecting inheritable traits, and I can do that. I like being able to improve my ability to do that at the cost of missing out on other bonuses (filling out Blood before other legacies). I like that I can create weird incest cults to support that if I’m playing a game where I’m optimizing trait collection.

Or not do that if that’s not the mode I want to play in. One of my favorite things in the game is to simply look through the religions tabs and see how theyre modeled and if I agree or not. I also enjoy changing religions in ways that make sense to the story I’m playing out. The character that I was planning to reform a pagan faith with has a beloved uncle die to family squables? Time to make more distant kinslaying a crime. Sister executed due to being an adulteress? Time to flip adultery rules: now it’s a crime for men but not for women.

I don’t often go above king. I don’t usually map paint and if I do, I rarely attempt to game succession. I have lots of kids. I’ll make terrible decisions as my character, ones I as a player know are not the best choice, but ones that a person actually living through that life would make.

When I see responses like this:

I disagree completely. But honestly, it doesn't even matter if you are right or I am right.

Gaming is about the experience, and it seems a fact that a lot of people experienced CK2 to offer varied and fulfilling gameplay for a long period of time, while a significant amount of people experience CK3 to do the opposite (or at least far less so than CK2).

Now we can debate the technicalities, whether CK2 play styles really really were different, or "just looked different." But who cares? People enjoyed those play styles more, and regardless of whether that was because of different looks or "real" differences, that's an example of successful game design that was enjoyed by the players.

It feels like the same issue. A lot of different play styles in CK2 felt like they were created by using the same systems but just locking one or more parts (see: being stuck in agnatic open). You can do the same in CK3, but you have to choose to do that. The game doesn’t force you, and if you want, you can funnel any playthrough to being functionally the same.

But you don’t have to, it’s just, when given the freedom to do such, people do and then get upset that it all feels the same. They say the game is designed to get to the point of everyone playing incest, or perfect characters, or map painting and it’s boring.

There’s lots of stuff that I still want in CK3, but what I absolutely do not want are these hard coded locks. I want major transitions to be slower and more stepwise unless there’s a good reason (the reductions of cost to culture changes is a great example of this! I love this!). I want there to be more pushback and the possibility for changes to fail or to go not be as comprehensive as first envisioned (see, Akhenaten’s Aten cult dying shortly after his death).

I don’t want hard locks. I love the freedom of CK3, including the freedom to optimize and exploit and gamify if you so desire and at your own risk.

As Soren Johnson said, given the chance, gamers will optimize the fun out of a game. A number of complaints I see seem to be from folks who have fallen into that trap.

 

[vandevere]

Exactly.

There’s so much freedom in this game. I like collecting inheritable traits, and I can do that. I like being able to improve my ability to do that at the cost of missing out on other bonuses (filling out Blood before other legacies). I like that I can create weird incest cults to support that if I’m playing a game where I’m optimizing trait collection.

Or not do that if that’s not the mode I want to play in. One of my favorite things in the game is to simply look through the religions tabs and see how theyre modeled and if I agree or not. I also enjoy changing religions in ways that make sense to the story I’m playing out. The character that I was planning to reform a pagan faith with has a beloved uncle die to family squables? Time to make more distant kinslaying a crime. Sister executed due to being an adulteress? Time to flip adultery rules: now it’s a crime for men but not for women.

I don’t often go above king. I don’t usually map paint and if I do, I rarely attempt to game succession. I have lots of kids. I’ll make terrible decisions as my character, ones I as a player know are not the best choice, but ones that a person actually living through that life would make.

When I see responses like this:


It feels like the same issue. A lot of different play styles in CK2 felt like they were created by using the same systems but just locking one or more parts (see: being stuck in agnatic open). You can do the same in CK3, but you have to choose to do that. The game doesn’t force you, and if you want, you can funnel any playthrough to being functionally the same.

But you don’t have to, it’s just, when given the freedom to do such, people do and then get upset that it all feels the same. They say the game is designed to get to the point of everyone playing incest, or perfect characters, or map painting and it’s boring.

There’s lots of stuff that I still want in CK3, but what I absolutely do not want are these hard coded locks. I want major transitions to be slower and more stepwise unless there’s a good reason (the reductions of cost to culture changes is a great example of this! I love this!). I want there to be more pushback and the possibility for changes to fail or to go not be as comprehensive as first envisioned (see, Akhenaten’s Aten cult dying shortly after his death).

I don’t want hard locks. I love the freedom of CK3, including the freedom to optimize and exploit and gamify if you so desire and at your own risk.

As Soren Johnson said, given the chance, gamers will optimize the fun out of a game. A number of complaints I see seem to be from folks who have fallen into that trap.

I agree. I must be one of the laziest players here. I have way too much fun managing vassals, marrying kids off, and even assigning Court Positions, to think of the hassle of WC. And I'm not really turned on by the prospect of Incestuous God Emperors either. Generally, I just like to sit back and kind of let the generations take care of themselves.

Which isn't to say I won't use the Console. If the Game decides it wants to foist something on me that makes no logical sense, Imma axe that right quick.

It's the freedom to do...whatever...that makes this Game what it is. So, please, don't reduce that freedom!

 

[kawamuratc]

I have way too much fun managing vassals, marrying kids off [...] And I'm not really turned on by the prospect of Incestuous God Emperors either. Generally, I just like to sit back and kind of let the generations take care of themselves.

You say this, but have you ever just been sat in the middle of your own Zoroastrian family making the most comically complex family tree?

I’ve entertained myself for hours trying to create a pedigree for such a run through. I’m still looking for a programme that allows me to deal with that level of consanguinity.

Oh. I’ve just now remembered I picked up a tablet. Well. Might be back to the old “family tree but that tree is Pando” drawing board.

 

[vandevere]

You say this, but have you ever just been sat in the middle of your own Zoroastrian family making the most comically complex family tree?

I’ve entertained myself for hours trying to create a pedigree for such a run through. I’m still looking for a programme that allows me to deal with that level of consanguinity.

Oh. I’ve just now remembered I picked up a tablet. Well. Might be back to the old “family tree but that tree is Pando” drawing board.

Which is why I love that the CK Series is such a sandbox. I'd be bored silly trying to do that. But you're having fun with that, so it's all good.

 

[BrotherJonathan]

Exactly.

There’s so much freedom in this game. I like collecting inheritable traits, and I can do that. I like being able to improve my ability to do that at the cost of missing out on other bonuses (filling out Blood before other legacies). I like that I can create weird incest cults to support that if I’m playing a game where I’m optimizing trait collection.

Or not do that if that’s not the mode I want to play in. One of my favorite things in the game is to simply look through the religions tabs and see how theyre modeled and if I agree or not. I also enjoy changing religions in ways that make sense to the story I’m playing out. The character that I was planning to reform a pagan faith with has a beloved uncle die to family squables? Time to make more distant kinslaying a crime. Sister executed due to being an adulteress? Time to flip adultery rules: now it’s a crime for men but not for women.

I don’t often go above king. I don’t usually map paint and if I do, I rarely attempt to game succession. I have lots of kids. I’ll make terrible decisions as my character, ones I as a player know are not the best choice, but ones that a person actually living through that life would make.

When I see responses like this:


It feels like the same issue. A lot of different play styles in CK2 felt like they were created by using the same systems but just locking one or more parts (see: being stuck in agnatic open). You can do the same in CK3, but you have to choose to do that. The game doesn’t force you, and if you want, you can funnel any playthrough to being functionally the same.

But you don’t have to, it’s just, when given the freedom to do such, people do and then get upset that it all feels the same. They say the game is designed to get to the point of everyone playing incest, or perfect characters, or map painting and it’s boring.

There’s lots of stuff that I still want in CK3, but what I absolutely do not want are these hard coded locks. I want major transitions to be slower and more stepwise unless there’s a good reason (the reductions of cost to culture changes is a great example of this! I love this!). I want there to be more pushback and the possibility for changes to fail or to go not be as comprehensive as first envisioned (see, Akhenaten’s Aten cult dying shortly after his death).

I don’t want hard locks. I love the freedom of CK3, including the freedom to optimize and exploit and gamify if you so desire and at your own risk.

As Soren Johnson said, given the chance, gamers will optimize the fun out of a game. A number of complaints I see seem to be from folks who have fallen into that trap.

Good points. There are definitely some things in the game that are borderline exploits and probably need to be nerfed, but balancing the game around trying to stop powergaming probably isn't a good idea either. A lot of the time that just leads to players' progress being artificially slowed down or arbitrary difficulty spikes.

 

[NATOaster]

I wonder if crown authority 3 and 4 should say give +1 domain limit making it more of an administrative policy instead of Stewardship perk to maintain a larger domain. It would be nice to represent centralisation and how it is not liked by vassals. Currently high domain limit somehow does not effect vassals opinion… I think it should.

I would really hate to see further negative vassal opinion modifiers, I already just refuse to interact with Feudal contracts because of how much they make your vassals hate you immediately

 

[Monalba]

I would really hate to see further negative vassal opinion modifiers, I already just refuse to interact with Feudal contracts because of how much they make your vassals hate you immediately

Same.

It's a shame, they are a nice addition to the game, but at the same time, it feels pointless to me.
I simply don't use them. They are more trouble than they are worth.
Change something and you get -15. Change something again and you are at -30.
They never felt worth it and even less now, due to the existence of more hostile factions.

In fact, they are an annoyance to me. I hate taking over a kingdom and having to go trough every vassal to see who has a modified contract and how can I change it. ONE. BY. ONE.
I don't care that your prior king gave you coinage rights, I don't. You have to renew your contract with me.
That could be a damn event in Royal Court. New vassals demanding more rights/maintaining their contracts, while we get the option of dealing with the petitioner in particular, agree, reset ALL the contracts in the newly conquered kingdom, etc.

 

[DaBombXXX]

Same.

It's a shame, they are a nice addition to the game, but at the same time, it feels pointless to me.
I simply don't use them. They are more trouble than they are worth.
Change something and you get -15. Change something again and you are at -30.
They never felt worth it and even less now, due to the existence of more hostile factions.

In fact, they are an annoyance to me. I hate taking over a kingdom and having to go trough every vassal to see who has a modified contract and how can I change it. ONE. BY. ONE.
I don't care that your prior king gave you coinage rights, I don't. You have to renew your contract with me.
That could be a damn event in Royal Court. New vassals demanding more rights/maintaining their contracts, while we get the option of dealing with the petitioner in particular, agree, reset ALL the contracts in the newly conquered kingdom, etc.

Considering rejecting claims to artifacts still gives -60 opinion modifier no matter what, I make sure to stack as many positives as I can. The opinion modifiers are all over the place, negative contracts are just not worth it.

 

[Bobwoodword]

Can someone set my mind at ease about this content schedule? We have 2 culture packs and an expansion in three years (throw in the “passion project” event pack if you want). That seems like a slow content calendar for Paradox flagship. Why do people think the content release is slow or is it not that slow relative to CK2 schedule? I was hopeful for a DLC release before EOY to take advantage of Christmas.

 

[Dark_messiah93]

Suspicious. This DD gave me Imperator: Rome memories. We all know how it ended.
Are you going to drop this game in favour of Vic3?
If the new policy of Paradox is dropping games development to milk customers for the next one, it'a really worrying.
You will eventually lose the good name you made back in 2010s.

Or just give this game in the hands of Stellaris team, the only one still on point here.

 

[grommile]

Are you going to drop this game in favour of Vic3?

Vicky 3 has its own team.

Or just give this game in the hands of Stellaris team, the only one still on point here.

The Stellaris team are busy looking after Stellaris; they don't have time to look after CK3 as well.

 

[DinoMight]

Considering rejecting claims to artifacts still gives -60 opinion modifier no matter what, I make sure to stack as many positives as I can. The opinion modifiers are all over the place, negative contracts are just not worth it.

im sorry but "negative opinion" contracts make you so powerful that vassals dont think of rebelling no matter how much they hate you, and only one assassination plot can be done against you at the time, meaning nobody can kill you either

you are doing something wrong lol

dunno, from the comments it seems only the lazy players enjoy this game, or meme masters who love incest and to post about it on reddit
like that zoroastrian guy
rest of the community seems to be alienated

shame, definitely not gonna buy anything from PDX anymore

as mentioned above, these are strong imperator rome vibes, and it seems vic3 will be lackluster and bare bones like ck3 and I:R are on launch
shame

 

[Herennius]

and only one assassination plot can be done against you at the time, meaning nobody can kill you either

you are doing something wrong lol

dunno, from the comments it seems only the lazy players enjoy this game, or meme masters who love incest and to post about it on reddit
like that zoroastrian guy
rest of the community seems to be alienated

And then there are those non-lazy players who don't care about memes, attempt to roleplay in CK3 in a realistic fashion and use mods to make the game harder...like the one removing said one-assasination-restriction-for-AI-vs-player. Those players don't like everything about CK3 in its current state, too. They do not like everything Paradox does as well, but they are also not declaring their private or public boycotting feud vs. pdx or start a strategic review bombing campaign against CK3 to "IR" it. They instead believe that there is hope left that things will develop to the better in future, as they view 1.7 as a big step forward - and they look forward to what the next patch will bring (even if they would prefer getting a 1.7.2)

Now lets see if I used the plural in the paragraph above correctly or if everyone disagrees

 

[kawamuratc]

dunno, from the comments it seems only the lazy players enjoy this game, or meme masters who love incest and to post about it on reddit
like that zoroastrian guy
rest of the community seems to be alienated

This is going to shock you, but “making wildly inbred family trees” isn’t the same as “Only playing for memes and posting on Reddit”. It was a playthrough I enjoyed and it was fun to analyze the level of pedigree collapse/how much hypothetical genetic material was shared.

The other player was not lazy, they just used that word to describe what might’ve been the difference between their play style and the play style of others who felt bored.

I couldn’t tell you if the rest of “the community” feels alienated or if that’s a large percentage of players or whatever. I have no actual metrics on that.

 

[vandevere]

This is going to shock you, but “making wildly inbred family trees” isn’t the same as “Only playing for memes and posting on Reddit”. It was a playthrough I enjoyed and it was fun to analyze the level of pedigree collapse/how much hypothetical genetic material was shared.

The other player was not lazy, they just used that word to describe what might’ve been the difference between their play style and the play style of others who felt bored.

I couldn’t tell you if the rest of “the community” feels alienated or if that’s a large percentage of players or whatever. I have no actual metrics on that.

Right. I was comparing my playstyle to those of players who move heaven, earth, and maybe even hell just to conquer the entire world. Compared to those players, I must seem lazy, in that I'm just sitting pat, managing my domain, managing vassals, and marryint kids off, all the while, enjoying the heck of the changes the world around me is going through...

 

[Secondus2]

Our sister studio in Thalassic

What/where is Thalassic?

 

[Ben84]

What/where is Thalassic?

Malmö, SWE

Paradox Thalassic · Torggatan 2, 211 40 Malmö, Sweden

âââââ · Corporate office

www.google.com

Edit: the one and only review is funny ^^