Dev Diary #114 - And the Winner is…

[Genocidalvirus]

I would like to have an event that explored genesis khan and those different tribes before, during and after his life. Ideally referencing this amazing book, "Genghis Khan and Making of the Modern World by Jack Weatherford". How the author describes the events, stories, culture, technology innovations, and warfare really makes me want to explore that world more.

 

[Space Cartographer]

Let's talk about what mechanic we would hope for in the free patch that will accompany Wards and Wardens. A LOT of you are talking about a regency rework. And I get it, that would be really great and I believe we all want this at some point. But this won't be one of the big expansions and we shouldn't expect something unrealistic. We will get a mechanic somewhat comparable to the amount of work of the memories system from the Friends & Foes patch. In my opinion going on about the regency rework will only make us disappointed. Either because we got our hopes up for the regencies and got something else. Or because we pushed Paradox to do the regencies even though there weren't enough capacities for this and got an underwhelming mechanic. I believe a regency rework would work better as part of an internal politics expansion that would also expand the role of the council and maybe the cities. So, let's collect some other ideas for mechanics that would be more suitable to the scope of an event pack.

• New guardianship types:
  I think this one is really great, because it wouldn't need a whole new mechanic like the regencies but just builds on the current system. There were already so many cool ideas in this thread. Squires that would get military education boni but can die when they accompany their knights to battle. Hostages that have a strained relationship to their warden, but give their captor some diplomatic benefits towards the ward's family. Maybe also a cleric or even a university guardianship type.
  
  
• An Adoption system:
  Having the option of adopting children any time outside of events would be great. Of course, this has to be properly balanced. Possibly needing renown for the adoption (an even greater amount of renown if the child is a lowborn). This mechanic would include new succession laws for adoption. With the default succession law adopted children inherit after natural children and would get a negative trait similiar to disputed heritage and bastards traits.

Whether you share my position on the regency or not, I am really interested on hearing your thoughts on this topic

 

[IIXBatmanXII]

Let's talk about what mechanic we would hope for in the free patch that will accompany Wards and Wardens. A LOT of you are talking about a regency rework. And I get it, that would be really great and I believe we all want this at some point. But this won't be one of the big expansions and we shouldn't expect something unrealistic. We will get a mechanic somewhat comparable to the amount of work of the memories system from the Friends & Foes patch. In my opinion going on about the regency rework will only make us disappointed. Either because we got our hopes up for the regencies and got something else. Or because we pushed Paradox to do the regencies even though there weren't enough capacities for this and got an underwhelming mechanic. I believe a regency rework would work better as part of an internal politics expansion that would also expand the role of the council and maybe the cities. So, let's collect some other ideas for mechanics that would be more suitable to the scope of an event pack.

• New guardianship types:
  I think this one is really great, because it wouldn't need a whole new mechanic like the regencies but just builds on the current system. There were already so many cool ideas in this thread. Squires that would get military education boni but can die when they accompany their knights to battle. Hostages that have a strained relationship to their warden, but give their captor some diplomatic benefits towards the ward's family. Maybe also a cleric or even a university guardianship type.
  
  
• An Adoption system:
  Having the option of adopting children any time outside of events would be great. Of course, this has to be properly balanced. Possibly needing renown for the adoption (an even greater amount of renown if the child is a lowborn). This mechanic would include new succession laws for adoption. With the default succession law adopted children inherit after natural children and would get a negative trait similiar to disputed heritage and bastards traits.

Whether you share my position on the regency or not, I am really interested on hearing your thoughts on this topic

Personally I think it would be better and more likely to rework how personalities and traits are acquired while growing up with this update if we’re going to give into it because it is within the theme of wards and wardens and affects the characters throughout their lives.

 

[Emperor 1997]

Personally I think it would be better and more likely to rework how personalities and traits are acquired while growing up with this update if we’re going to give into it because it is within the theme of wards and wardens and affects the characters throughout their lives.

Yes, currently the personality trait events for childs are completly random, like picking a feast event for the child, while there were no feast, at the location of the child for over 10 years.

Child personality events should respect the activities events and other events, and not start random events, who has never happend.

 

[Arngrim]

I would love to see events where the warden of a ruler use their position to gain claims or other personnel benefits

I would love to be able to support claims in return for fealty - "of course I'll help you retake your barony, but in return you'll have to swear fealty to me instead of the traditional holder of your claim"

 

[Darth_Siddius]

One thing that definitely should be considered are cultures and languages the kids are raised in.

For example if he is educated in a foreign country, it could be that he switches culture to the respective one. The kid will learn their language and not yours.
If the ward is in your own court but still of another culture/language, the kid will be able to learn the warden's language and will maybe get some "affinity to culture x" bonus which reduces the opinion penalty - because he knows their culture and therefore their customs.
Also religions, he could be influenced by the warden in that direction.

And if it happens in your court, you as parent could obviously also intervene, promote or stop these things, resulting in opinion changes with the kid and warden.

 

[RamRage]

I'd love to see an event where either as a Guardian or a ward, you take an day out to the market. Stuff can happen at the market like buying or selling artifacts/toys. Also depending if you're liked or not by a majority of your vassals, they may stage a kidnapping of you/your ward.

Also, if you have a unique special building within your realm (E.g. Stonehenge or the Popes house) you can take a trip there with the kids to go see the sights!

 

[Darth_Siddius]

I'd love to see an event where either as a Guardian or a ward, you take an day out to the market. Stuff can happen at the market like buying or selling artifacts/toys. Also depending if you're liked or not by a majority of your vassals, they may stage a kidnapping of you/your ward.

Also, if you have a unique special building within your realm (E.g. Stonehenge or the Popes house) you can take a trip there with the kids to go see the sights!

Maybe even go on a Pilgrimage/Hajj together - which can turn the kid zealous?

 

[WestuHal]

Just to add my voice to those saying a hostage system should be part of this pack - I think this would be an ideal, smaller feature tying in nicely with the theme of wards and wardens. I would hope that regencies will be dealt with fully in due course as part of a general update/DLC covering internal politics and councillor machinations.

 

[CrownFan]

The polls are closed, and the winner is…

Wards and Wardens

If you have a specific topic you’d like to see made into an event, or a situation you’d like to see expanded upon, please reply in this thread!

For example, a specific topic might be ‘I’d like to see an event about one of my foreign wards missing their home’ or ‘I’d like an event where I as a child can become best friends with a vassal child’.

Examples of situations you’d like to see improved could be ‘I’d like to have the ability to impose a specific personality trait on a ward’, or ‘I’d like if educating another ruler’s child would have more diplomatic benefits/complications’.

Not sure this fits neatly in either category but personality traits need a tweak to prevent individuals getting contrary traits that just don't make sense together (like a character getting Brave, Shy and Lustful - while Brave and Lustful work together, neither sit well logically with Shy).

Situations I'd like to see improved is a removal of the fixed cap of only two wards - this arbitrary cap doesn't reflect what guardians in the Middle Ages did. It would be welcome if the fixed cap was replaced with a sliding scale of stress, educational and attribute skill roll bonuses and penalties (having only one ward has added bonuses, and having more than 3 wards starts incurring greater risk of stress events and starts impacting educational and attribute skill rolls).

On education and attribute skill rolls I would also like to see less RNG effects, with a more logical system replacing it (it is pretty illogical for a Genius/Shrewd Ward, with a Genius Guardian, to be getting a 1 or no attribute point increase on their birthday, as the RNG often can do). Traits of Guardians and Wards should matter, as should the education opportunities a Guardian can offer. Some negative traits like Drunkard should have heavy penalties (drunk teachers generally not very effective).

A Emperor or King can arguably offer more educational opportunities for their wards, than some random courtier of no title or position, although there is some offset to this in time available (the no job courtier has fewer distractions than a King for example).

There should also be a bonus for being Guardian to a close kin Ward (familial bonds matter, especially in the Middle Ages).

I think there should be situations and events where you make direct choices over the education your wards get each year or period, something that can open up a series of interesting events (each with benefits and risks), as well as a focus on game playing which was oft used method of teaching wards in the Middle Ages, which gives opportunities to build close relationships with wards.

I also think the game should track the activity of the Court the ward is in, so that Courts that tend to do particular activities regularly (like warfare, hunting, feasts, holding court in Royal Court, commissioning artifacts, etc), lead to events for wards that relate to that.

There should also be penalties for assigning a Guardian to a Ward where neither share a common language (a 'Speaking Greek' event maybe), given that obviously would present some challenges.

I do quite like the idea of being about to decide at least one personality trait as a dynastic trait, although every dynasty must have a black sheep or two.

I am pleased that Wards and Wardens won the vote because really CKIII is about family and grooming your dynasty, and while each of the packs offered something, the central role of guardian and ward in the game means it is a major touchpoint and it isn't quite right just yet.

Edit: Almost forgot, it doesn't feel logical that as a living dynasty head that I can't direct my great-grandchildren in my court to learn a language like I can for my children and grandchildren. It feels like an arbitrary cut-off that makes little sense. The key determinant should be if they reside in my court and are part of my dynasty.

I am glad the developers are asking us for ideas like this, as it is a really positive thing.

If I could make one other non-W&W suggestion, it is that I wish noses didn't look quite so lumpy in Ruler Designer

 

[riadach]

This and a bridge? Could it be ambushes?

 

[CrazyRat]

It probably has been done already but I think that it would be nice to also have 'children' version of Schemes. I mean, we already have Crushes, Bullies, etc. ..., and it would be nice to have a scheme that could nearby guarantee it blossoming into adulthood. (like e.g. Child version of Seduce where you actually confess your feelings.)

 

[grommile]

while Brave and Lustful work together, neither sit well logically with Shy

"Punching violent strangers in the face is a lot less scary than talking to peaceful strangers." is a perfectly coherent position, and I don't see much of a problem with a character having both crippling social anxiety and a relentlessly hyperactive libido either.

(Heck, I've probably met people who fit the latter description.)

 

[Munqaxus]

I just want to mention 1 very famous book by Mark Twain...

The Prince and the Pauper

If this storyline isn't in this update, I'll be upset and so will Mark Twain.

 

[LordIII3]

I have a question just to clarify something: The voting was about what of those three should be prioritized first, wasn't it? So all those awesome packs aren't mutually exclusive and will find their way to the game sonner or later, right?

 

[CollectorOfBolts]

I have a question just to clarify something: The voting was about what of those three should be prioritized first, wasn't it? So all those awesome packs aren't mutually exclusive and will find their way to the game sonner or later, right?

From the previous DD:

If this turns out to be a popular activity, it is possible that we will do it again in the future! The themes that do not get chosen this time will likely make a comeback, alongside some new challengers.

 

[JHewins]

Yeah, I'd like long-term relationships between wards and their guardians to have more of a lasting impact. Especially if they raised them for a long time. Sometimes I have randomers raise my kids if I have a lot of children, and when they grow up I have no idea who was raised by who. I should know! Maybe a Memory or something, tie into that system.

This is certainly the big one for me.

Upon sucession, usually the heir has minimal memories recorded, so unless I've been keeping notes myself I find it hard to ground them in the world and make fun and informed roleplaying decisions based on their first 16 years or so (which, as you can imagine, should be pretty formative). For example, a memory could be something like:

"I became callous when Duke Boudwijn (my Uncle), took me to the stocks, and encouraged me scorn a lowly criminal"

This way, after succession we get a great leaping-off point for roleplaying our new character, even if we've shipped them off to another realm for their childhood since we've been too busy crusading. Having memories for bullies,crushes,trait-defining events, and other mishaps (the epidemic of child-drowning accidents would certainly traumatise a large portion of the known world) would be great to have avaliable to us in order to continue the story of our realm, without having to keep close second-monitor notes on every child in our court.

 

[Gwydden]

View attachment 943449
This and a bridge? Could it be ambushes?

Calling it now. We're getting playable trolls.

 

[UlrichVonBaden]

It would be interesting if there were a lot more relationship mechanics around bastards (and especially bastard heirs), children of concubines, etc - maybe based on religious/cultural modifiers. This was a somewhat complicated subject, especially in Western Christendom - and there could be the potential for complex story lines involving and character interactions for children born out of wedlock.

 

[Dunerat]

Calling it now. We're getting playable trolls.

Scandinavian mythological Troll units exclusive to nordic regions with 150 Attack and 300 Toughness