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Dev Diary #131 – CKIII University 101

Opening Remarks​

Good afternoon, and welcome to your first class of the semester! My name is Dr. Areysak, and I’ll be your “CKIII University 101” lecturer.

I already see some raised hands. You, in the first row, ask away.

“Why a University Activity? What does it have to do with Wards and Wardens?”

This is a very interesting question. During the early development of Wards and Wardens, talks of hostages’ education led us to a realization: everything that could influence a character’s education trait happens during childhood. Once a character reaches 16 years of age, they are locked out of any further improvement! And if the player character isn’t directly responsible for the education of their heir, a player can find themselves inheriting an already adult heir character with an education trait they have had no way to influence.

The University Visit activity is the solution we have chosen to open up new possibilities to the player to influence their character’s personal growth. Therefore, as a first aim, it fulfills a gameplay need; secondly, it allows us to expand upon one of the Middle Ages’ many successful inventions, Universities; thirdly, we got to add a new activity!

When we talk of Medieval Universities, we are immediately led to think of the famous names of Western Europe, such as Oxford, Cambridge, and Bologna. The name “University”, in fact, comes from Latin and was born to describe specifically the communities (= universitates) of Latin-speaking teachers and students that congregated in these European cities. However, similar institutions existed all over the Old World. Particularly famous are the Indian “universities”, such as Takshashila and Nalanda; the House of Wisdom in Baghdad was one of the most renowned centers of studies of its age, and Madrasas schools were widespread throughout the Islamic world. In this period, it’s also often difficult to separate, as we would do today, between lay and religious centers of studies, since Christian cathedrals, Muslim mosques and, in particular, Buddhist temples were themselves libraries, scriptoria (i.e., where manuscripts were copied), and educational institutions, or had these institutions develop in their immediate vicinity.

The Activity​

Let’s now have a look at the activity itself, though!

The University Visit is a minor activity that adult landed rulers can always initiate, as long as they have the gold! To keep it in line with the pre-existing decision to Go to University, it is quite expensive. To keep the challenge balanced, the final cost is dynamic (like with all activities) and changes with your tier and era.

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(Activity selection interface showing the University Visit)

The activity takes 6 months, and can only be started once every 20 years, and only once per location.

In order to Visit a University, you have to select a valid location in your diplomatic range and travel there.

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(Activity destination selection interface)

You might have noticed, however, that not all valid locations are University seats. As discussed above, large religious centers were often centers of study too, and have been included as potential destinations.

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(The tooltip of a large religious center)

Being a minor activity, the choice of intents and options is limited but flavorful.
There are only two intents available, but they represent two contrasting approaches to your university experience, and will significantly change both your approach to your studies and the results you can achieve. In fact, every activity event will have at least one special option unlocked by each intent!
“Study Hard” is quite self-explanatory: you went there to study, and study hard you will, no matter the stress cost you’ll have to pay! You try to make the most of your time at University, in order to maximize your chances of success at the end of the activity and increase your rewards.
In fact, the results (and rewards) you obtain at the end of your studies are measured by a value called “Studiousness”, which is a “success” chance similar, e.g., to a Pilgrimage’s Piousness. The activity can’t fail per se, but the entity of your rewards will depend on this value.

“Goliardic Lifestyle” is a completely different approach, inspired by the European Goliards, wandering students and clerics famous for their satirical poetry (for instance the Carmina Burana) exalting the art of drinking and carnal pleasures. With this intent, your aim is to gain as much first-hand experience of life, both inside and outside the walls of the University, indulging in so-called “Goliardic Shenanigans”. I’ll leave you the pleasure of discovering exactly what your character can get up to; the general idea of the intent, however, is to gain less success chance (and therefore less rewards at the conclusion of the activity), but more immediate bonuses such as lifestyle traits, lifestyle xp, and skill points.

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(Intents view)

On the other hand, we only have one option with 3 levels, which represent how much money you plan to invest in study materials. The option chosen will influence your success chance and final rewards, including an Illustrious artifact! (cost values are still wip)

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(Options view)

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(Arrival event)

As you can see, your level of Studiousness is easily traceable from the activity view. To make the interactions more impactful, we have limited the number of guests, which are only a handful of students and teachers, which will be among the wisest minds on the map!

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(Activity view and teacher’s character view)

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(Event with Study Hard option)

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(Event with Goliardic Lifestyle options)

Be ready to gain a whole bunch of stress! Nobody said that getting a degree was easy…

I did mention that your teachers will be among the most brilliant minds around, and I’d like to stress it again because if you manage to make a very good impression on them…

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(Conclusion event)

You will be able to invite one of them to move back to your court with you!

But hold on, there is something weird with this teacher… What is that?!

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(Teacher’s character view with education trait tooltip)

Is that… A fifth level of the Education Trait?!

YES!

Concurrently with the University Visit activity, we have added a new level to all education traits. This final level will be super rare, and mostly reserved for University teachers and University graduates who already started with the fourth-tier trait.

Rewards​

As you might have guessed from what has been discussed so far, the main reward for the activity is increasing your education trait one level up. However, there is only a chance to succeed in this endeavor! This chance is higher the lower you current level is (i.e., it’s easier to get from tier 1 to 2 than it is from 2 to 3) and the higher your Studiousness level is.

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(Tooltip of Tier 4 of Studiousness with the rewards)

However, even if you were to fail at improving your education, you are ensured to gain a number of Perk points that increases with your achieved Studiousness, an assortment of xp and skill points depending on your event choices, and even an Illustrious book if you chose the most expensive option during the activity setup (and therefore went splurging on rare manuscripts)!

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(A randomly generated Illustrious book)

Conclusions​

This concludes today’s lecture. I hear some buzzing from the end rows, are there any questions?

“But that’s not how Universities worked! No ruler would go to University like a commoner!!”

You are, of course, correct. We are perfectly aware of it. However, we believe that the combined bonuses offered by new gameplay possibilities (i.e., improving your character’s education and skills) and the historical flavor of showing a slice of the life at Medieval Universities more than warranted the exception!

I hope you are excited to Visit a University soon!

This is the last Dev Diary before the July break, so it seems fitting to just say:

School’s out! Have a nice summer! And see you all back in August!
 
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Question: If you send your child to University, can they finish their education with a level 5 or is it something you can only achieve as an adult?
Also, I would love if you rebalance the cost for sending a child to study in a university. Since the costs seem to be way to high atm, I don't think it makes sense to be able to throw a Grand Tournament and a Grand Wedding for the same price as to send one child to university.
 
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I think t5 Education should have a malus in some other stat, instead of a secondary bonus.



Wait, but we could send children to University before. Now this Decision is restricted to rulers?

Sorry, my answer was a bit messy... No, of course not! The decision is still there! I was talking about the new activity being limited to rulers, and that it would be cool (but out of scope for the time being) to either replace that decision or make it more interactive, like others were suggesting in the comments.
 
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When we talk of Medieval Universities, we are immediately led to think of the famous names of Western Europe, such as Oxford, Cambridge, and Bologna
I think about Sorbonne... But we already have special building in Paris.
 
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Were glasses (or is it sunglasses?) already in use in the CK3 time period? Wikipedia says the first mentions of them is from late 13th century in Northern Italy, and probably they weren't really widely used until a century later. It would be a bit immersion-breaking to see everyone wearing them in the 10th century.
 
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You know, one thing I forgot to ask, but is it within the scope of this DLC to add new Traditions/Tenets/Doctrines or update some old ones to reflect the new content?
For example, traditions and tenets that make education traits give additional prestige/opinion/piety should probably be updated to account for Tier 5 educations and maybe there's space there for a Doctrine on how the faith sees the pursuit of higher learning (foe example, some faiths could be the "clergy hoards all higherknowledge" type.

Mostly, I dearly hope to see the tier 5 educations interacting with more of the game systems, like giving an aptitude modifier to relevant court positions or giving a bonus to Offer Guardianship acceptance, etc.
 
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Oh, also, 2 more questions:
1-Will some historical characters such as Rodrigo Diaz de Vivar be updated to start with a tier 5 education?
2-Will the AI be able to go and improve their education by themselves if they fulfill the requirements imposed on the player? For example, if you land your heir and you give him a ton of money, is there a chance he will choose to go to university on his own?
 
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You know, one thing I forgot to ask, but is it within the scope of this DLC to add new Traditions/Tenets/Doctrines or update some old ones to reflect the new content?
For example, traditions and tenets that make education traits give additional prestige/opinion/piety should probably be updated to account for Tier 5 educations and maybe there's space there for a Doctrine on how the faith sees the pursuit of higher learning (foe example, some faiths could be the "clergy hoards all higherknowledge" type.
Why on earth would a tier 5 education be seen as a sin by a religion?
 
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A bit late to the party but asking anyway.

1. Would cultures with the Bureaucratic ethos have a bonus towards universities, or have access to university-specific traditions? They seem to have gotten the short end of the stick with traditions that aren't terrain or heritage-specific.


1. As suggested in some answer, yes, large religious centers are "cathedral" buildings

2. No, we did not, as they are currently non player-facing

3. It's not that big of an activity! ;p

4. Sure, why not!

View attachment 998012View attachment 998013View attachment 998014View attachment 998015


It would be quite funny! But only at first... After, you would be dragged into everyone else's activities whether you like it or not, and it could be tedious... Also, we need teachers to be there at University whenever someone needs them, so they would be tied to their local University, or would have to travel everytime someone went to "their" university, and also rulers can't be invited to join another court, so we would have needed to develop two different and parallel systems to handle ruler teachers and unlanded teachers!



They don't disappear! First of all, we look for existing characters that meet the criteria in the province's pool, so it's likely that teachers, if they are not "stolen" by a friendly ruler, will hang around for several activities.



Yeah, don't remind me... :(
2. Regarding the new lvl-5 traits, I'm not sure about some of the names as some of them seem a tad... verbose, for lack of a better term. The Intrigue and Diplomacy traits sound fine (the latter especially because of said verboseness), it's mostly the Martial and Learning traits I'm concerned with. I feel if they were named something like "Alexander Reborn" or "Solomonic" they'd properly convey the power and rarity of these traits while also fitting within the medieval setting. It's mostly the lvl-5 Learning's name that's kinda bugging me as "Oracle" carries some rather... pagan connotations which seems a tad problematic from an Abrahamic standpoint.

and 3. Will there also be a lvl-5 trait for Prowess?
 
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Why on earth would a tier 5 education be seen as a sin by a religion?
Oh, no, I didn't mean for tier 5 educations to be seen as sins, but I had looked at the new Pilgrimage Attitude doctrine (which ranges from forbidding pilgrimages to improving the pilgrim trait) and thought that such an idea could be applied to the pursuit of higher education.
Maybe it's just ignorance on my part and decades of stereotypes being drilled into my head, but wasn't it a thing that some religions took steps to keep the populace uneducated to make them more docile? I thought a Doctrine could explore that idea pretty well and if given enough incentives to make it an...interesting trade-off, could make for a fun run
 
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Oh, no, I didn't mean for tier 5 educations to be seen as sins, but I had looked at the new Pilgrimage Attitude doctrine (which ranges from forbidding pilgrimages to improving the pilgrim trait) and thought that such an idea could be applied to the pursuit of higher education.
Maybe it's just ignorance on my part and decades of stereotypes being drilled into my head, but wasn't it a thing that some religions took steps to keep the populace uneducated to make them more docile? I thought a Doctrine could explore that idea pretty well and if given enough incentives to make it an...interesting trade-off, could make for a fun run
Can you give examples of historical religions trying to "keep the populace undecucated"?
 
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If there were a policy to keep a class uneducated, it would be the class that was already uneducated. In CK that would be the serfs. Although there were often members of the noble class who were illiterate, most members of the nobility and royalty could at least sign their names. And there was no concerted effort to keep the noble/royal classes uneducated.

Also, since all the character we get to play will be of noble/royal blood, I don't think such an education malus would be right or feasible...
 
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Can you give examples of historical religions trying to "keep the populace undecucated"?
That whole idea is a Hollywood trope that the Catholic Church suppressed knowledge to keep Western Europe in the dark. Obviously false, but some people believe it.
 
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Oh, no, I didn't mean for tier 5 educations to be seen as sins, but I had looked at the new Pilgrimage Attitude doctrine (which ranges from forbidding pilgrimages to improving the pilgrim trait) and thought that such an idea could be applied to the pursuit of higher education.
Maybe it's just ignorance on my part and decades of stereotypes being drilled into my head, but wasn't it a thing that some religions took steps to keep the populace uneducated to make them more docile? I thought a Doctrine could explore that idea pretty well and if given enough incentives to make it an...interesting trade-off, could make for a fun run
Forbidding pilgrimages is more about certain sects rejecting the concept of pilgrimages, much like how islam varies on if you can visit the tombs of the dead or if this is haram
 
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I'd love an event where my ruler and the teacher don't get along and I try to out-teach them if we're close in stats, or he tries to get me expelled but my frat friends try to stop him
 
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When we talk of Medieval Universities, we are immediately led to think of the famous names of Western Europe, such as Oxford, Cambridge, and Bologna.
Hi, I would add to this short list Salamanca in spain, Padova in Italy and Montpellier in France (both renowned for medicine studies). Last but not least, Paris, which was certainly not the first, but a major one during the XII-XVth centuries for theology and law. Paris University was soon aknowledge by the french kings with privileges granted for students and teachers (for exemple they were not to be placed under common law but canon laws and judges, and the schools and university buildings were asylum apart from the city's provost jurisdiction).
 
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I wonder if there will be a "literate mechanic" similar to the lips icon that shows how many languages someone can speak, it would show how many languages someone can write in, since not all noble children learned how to. Latin would be a must have one for priests, since it is still used in every document at that time period. If your character can't read the character can be easely mislead and lied to by your priest or a noble who can read. As a regent I would try to influence my young ward by not educating him so he is easier to manipulate

It would also add flavour to the learning event where you are translating a book
 
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Oh, no, I didn't mean for tier 5 educations to be seen as sins, but I had looked at the new Pilgrimage Attitude doctrine (which ranges from forbidding pilgrimages to improving the pilgrim trait) and thought that such an idea could be applied to the pursuit of higher education.
Maybe it's just ignorance on my part and decades of stereotypes being drilled into my head, but wasn't it a thing that some religions took steps to keep the populace uneducated to make them more docile? I thought a Doctrine could explore that idea pretty well and if given enough incentives to make it an...interesting trade-off, could make for a fun run

So, this is a common trope, and one that's historically incorrect, but it's worth talking a bit about it's origins (at the very least as a demonstration of why reactionary forces can never "truly" be traditional as a result of having to adapt to present circumstances).
Following the medieval period, you have a lot of war and instability as a result of the wars of religious reformation, but you also have increasing centralization under increasingly absolute monarchs. You also have the printing press lowering the cost in time and labor to print books coinciding with an expanding middle class with members who could produce and consume such books. This resulted in an intellectual subculture deeply interested in politics, who then had considerable influence on their cultures. We call this the Enlightenment. Now, Enlightenment thinkers started to favor ideas about Rule of Law and expanding the rights of the public and such, and generally favored the idea that society ought to personally enrich its members (not entirely literally), generally though some kind of enlightened monarchy (as who else but the king can/will reign in those corrupt nobles and oligarchs!) and in some more radical cases through a more democratic society. One of the goals of the Enlightenment is the idea of broad public education, as enriching the minds of the peasants would hypothetically lead to them wanting to be enriched in personal rights and agreeing with the Enlightenment philosophers. This ideal is something that, not untouched or unalloyed by other forces, has been passed along more or less to our culture.
As a result of all this, we tend to take for granted the idea that education means empowerment, and that is a threat to tyrannical oppressive forces. To what extent that's just universally true of education vs it being a result of our educational system being influenced in part by the goals of the Enlightenment is difficult to say, though it being not entirely one or the other seems likely (it is, after all, rather difficult to see the English Boarding School system of the 50s as a font of antiestablishmentarianism). It is also the case that modern tyrannical oppressive forces take this for granted on some level, as they too live in the wake of the Enlightenment! Therefore they occasionally seek to control, subvert, or suppress educational systems to prevent that kind of empowerment that we desire. At times this might coincide with the interests of other institutions of the society (including religious ones) and at times went against it (Play Vicky3). And since we see the rulers of Medieval Europe as oppressors, it is rather easy to import this modern authoritarian behavior onto them and the Church that is so entangled with them (though the Church in particular also gets some extra spicy attention because of Early Modern Anglosphere demonization of the Catholics to help cement the independence of the Anglican Church. Like, there's a lot of wacky conspiracy theories to that end).
But of course that's hopelessly anachronistic! Leaving aside that our ideas about oppression differ from an Enlightenment Philosopher's which differ from an 11th century peasant's, the idea of personal empowerment through education leading to a more (by some definition) liberal society could not be directly institutionally opposed or inverted because, as the Enlightenment hadn't happened yet, that particular idea hadn't been invented yet! Education was, of course, very limited amongst the peasantry, though enough could read, do arithmetic, and write that as a community they could get by. Amongst the upper classes (and wealthier folks, particularly amongst burghers, who could afford to occasionally do upper class things) varying degrees of higher education were more common, particularity with the rise of universities (it is also worth noting that these institutions were religious even when educating secular folks, something that is also true of centers of learning in Antiquity. Despite what people seem to assume, the Romans were not secularists!). The overall attitude during the Medieval period was probably nearer in broad strokes to the Enlightenment view that more education = more good, though not for the same reasons in many ways (and this isn't so strange, the Enlightenment grew out of the Late Middle Age's aftermath after all). However, when it comes to the idea of institutionally educating the peasants, that's another story. Keep in mind the amount of energy it takes to give someone even a basic education, and add to that the fact you would ideally do so when they are young and moldable, and so also need to be taken care of at the same time. The responses you'd get would probably range from 'why commit to such an egregious waste? It's not like they need it' to 'I wish, then they would be better Christians knowing better than to fall for these silly heresies and/or wouldn't need to be micromanaged so much by their betters' (note again the common assumption with the Enlightenment philosophers, 'if only the peasants were more literate they'd agree with me!'). Now, there were seemingly some attempts to educate the broader peasantry, such as what Alfred the Great was trying to do, but they remained fairly limited in practice. And if you for some reason wanted to actively limit education, it's already done for you. Serfs (though not free peasants) were forbidden from joining religious orders, which of course limited their literacy, but this was a side effect of controlling their labor and keeping them from 'getting away' rather than an ideological objective. A big part of it, without the impetus of the Enlightenment, came down to cost-benefit analysis: if you can only afford to educate a limited number of people, would you educate a small portion of the peasants that 'don't need it' or the leadership types that need education and will be leading/instructing the peasants anyways? It is really that kind of economic issue with education that the Enlightenment sought to break us out of by making its acquisition a moral right that the state should expend resources on, to create citizens and not just laborers. Lucky us that other crass economic interests have never impacted and are not currently influencing our educational systems!:)
 
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