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Dev Diary #165 - Tributaries & Confederations

Hello there!

Welcome back to the first official dev diary for our Core Expansion this year, Khans of the Steppe. For those who did not see it, we first talked about the DLC back last month with Dev Diary #162 - Steppe by Steppe, so I recommend reading that first.

Today we will discuss Tributaries, Confederations, and Raid Intents. All three topics were mentioned in the previous Dev Diary, but we will discuss them at length in this one, so let’s settle in like a migrating nomad and get started.

Follow-up from Previous Dev Diary

The team has gone through an intense iteration period based on both feedback collected internally and the comments received from our previous Dev Diary. Many changes have been thus made, and we are sure we are not done with it yet. However, here's a small list of some of the most significant tweaks done based on your feedback:
  • A new, "base" Tributary type has been made available for non-Nomads.
  • Concerns about the Nomadic economy have been addressed by adding a monthly income for nomads based on their Herd size (symbolizing the trade of meat, hides, etc.)
  • A game rule has been added to include Nomadic governments in the Sahel, Arabia, the horn of Africa, Sami and Karelia regions
  • Tweaked the borders of the Steppe and characters who should be nomadic in all bookmarks (more than I can list here, screenshots will be shared in following Diaries)
  • We've added a Culture and Faith specific to your Nomadic Capital, different than your own
  • Adventurers can now become Nomads if they move into a Herder holding
  • We have expanded what we originally scoped for razing
  • We've extended and altered the effects of some Seasons
  • We have made it possible to grow your herd if you hold lands outside of the Steppe, giving those counties Fertility if held by a nomad

Tributaries

One of the new features we’re introducing with Khans of the Steppe, and the free update that goes along with it, are Tributaries. Vast nomadic realms like the Cumans, Khitans, and Khazars were not kept together by a tiered system of formal vassalage and pledges of fealty, nor were they delineated by culture or religion. Instead, the harsh realpolitik of the steppe applied - whoever could muster the greatest capacity for destruction on their neighbors proved themselves worthy of tribute, in exchange for the privilege of not being trampled underhoof. Modeling this type of subject relationship properly was the impetus for the Tributary feature.

Let's back up a bit and discuss some fundamentals first though, because tributaries aren't just a nomad thing. While Tributaries are similar to vassals in some respects, they represent a whole new type of unequal diplomatic relationship in the game. As a result, many game elements that formerly referred to "vassals" now refer to "subjects" instead. Subjects can be either vassals or tributaries, and these sub-types adhere to different rules. As with vassal contracts, there can be different types of tributary contracts with varying degrees of obligations. In most cases, these terms can be renegotiated.

Tributaries can be seen as a more independent subject type compared to vassals. While in most cases they share the map color and realm name with their suzerain, they can act and be interacted with independently, even when it comes to warfare. Most tributary types can also be created through peaceful means, by a sovereign ruler pledging tribute to a nomadic realm in exchange for a guarantee to not be attacked by them, or through a nomadic ruler demanding tribute from a neighboring realm. Agreements of tribute are (usually) perpetuated across generations, but may change in nature over time or be more easily broken when the contract changes hands.

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[Marzoban Tokku and his weak backbone stands little chance against the persuasive might of the Cumanian horde]

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[If some scary nomadic realm is on your border and you'd like to remain as independent as possible, you can proactively choose to pay them tribute to avoid outright conquest]

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[Existing vassals can be released as tributaries, and in some cases you can even vassalize an existing tributary]

Nomadic Tributaries are what you will encounter most frequently in Khans of the Steppe. These consist of nomadic realms (or spineless herders) who have pledged tribute to a stronger nomadic ruler on their border. They will pay a part of their herd in tribute on a regular basis, and some of the prestige they gain will also be conferred upon their suzerain. In exchange for tribute, they enjoy a great deal of independence from their suzerain and will not be outright attacked or raided by them. They can even have tributaries of their own!

Settled Tributaries are non-nomadic realms (such as feudal princes, tribes, or clans) who have yielded to a bordering nomadic ruler. Like their nomadic tributary counterparts, they will pay tribute on a regular basis, but instead of herd they will provide gold and levies.

Both these types of tributary contracts are inherited across generations, but they also have quite a bit of leeway in simply ceasing payments (if they are ready to face the consequences of insulting their suzerain, that is). This is most likely to happen if a nomadic suzerain prove themselves weak in some way (and therefore unworthy of tribute, by the laws of the steppe), like losing a war or suffering a chaotic Kurultai succession. Once tributaries opt to stop sending gifts to their suzerain the suzerain can choose to attack them to recover control, or let them go try to make their own destiny without their protection. To try to keep this from happening, nomadic suzerains can either be lenient with their contract conditions, or leverage their Dread to demand Obedience of their tributaries.

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[Your subject view will display if any of your tributaries are likely to stop paying you and why. Obedience plays a strong role in keeping your subjects in line, but even disobedient ones will be reluctant to stop paying off much stronger suzerains. More factors will be added before launch, such as losing a war or having chaotic Kurultai successions.]

A third type of subjugated tributary has also been added, which has no direct relation to nomads. This is a tributary type obliged to pay a lot of gold and a small amount of prestige to their suzerain in exchange for their suzerain's protection from outside invasion. If attacked, a subjugated tributary can call their suzerain in to defend them, and if they refuse their tributary obligations are annulled. Any non-nomadic realm can create this type of tributary through the Bring Under Tribute casus belli, enabling the extortion of neighboring protectorates through sheer military might.

This contract does not get inherited by the suzerain's heir upon their death, but also cannot be voluntarily broken. If the tributary wishes to break free of their obligations prior to their suzerain's death, they will have to fight them for independence.

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[Even feudal realms can subjugate neighboring kingdoms to make them pay tribute, if their Crown Authority is high enough]

It's important to note that it's possible to modify the terms of a tributary contract, just like a vassal contract. For example, nomads can negotiate for protection by their suzerains in exchange for higher tribute payments. If you and your tributary are Blood Brothers, you can even negotiate a guarantee that they will follow you on all military adventures, offensive as well as defensive.

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[Even the tributary can try to renegotiate the terms, but without a good relationship with (or a hook on) your suzerain this might be met with limited success]

Another aspect of tributaries of nomadic realms is that they can provide new Men-at-Arms types to their suzerain. In keeping with the flexible and heterogenous nature of steppe warfare, nomad rulers are able to recruit Men-at-Arms from both tributaries and vassals as if they were their own. Since the Men-at-Arms are recruited from other realms, rather than an additional cost of herd (to represent the development of more advanced mounted units) this costs a premium in gold to entice the foreigners to join up with the Khan's formidable horde.

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[If you don’t have any subjects with access to some of the basic Men-at-Arms types, you get a little hint suggesting who might give you access to them…]

Visually, tributary realms will typically adopt the map color and name of their suzerain to clarify the relationship between them. Modders might be interested to know that this behavior can be changed in script depending on the subject contract: you can make tributary types that do not inherit the suzerain's color or name, or just one of them, as well!

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[In 867, the Khazars dominate the Western Steppe while the Kirghiz control the Eastern parts. The Karluks and Ohguz are powerful nomadic realms in the central steppe region and have a lot of opportunity to compete for the smaller nomadic and tribal realms towards the northern parts.]

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[In 1066 the western and central steppe regions are dominated by the Cumans in the south, with a considerable tributary network maintaining their control of the center and maintaining their power against the Karluks and Khitans. The Pechenegs have migrated west and act as a buffer zone between the steppe and the Byzantine Empire - will they manage to become their own nomadic powerhouse, or fall to either of their titanic neighbors?]

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[In 1178, the Cumans remain the most powerful nomadic realm on the steppe, but for how long? The Khitans are migrating south into East Asia, leaving their old lands to the fractured Mongols to thrive.]

Since tributaries inherit all of the functionality of the vassal contract system, with a few extensions, they are very flexible and capable of modeling a great deal of unequal relationships between realms and rulers. There's a fair chance you will see more tributary types and dynamics added to the game in the future, and the system is fully available to modders to play with as well!

But how would you deal with these massive, aggressive nomadic realms as a smaller nomad who just wants to live a laid-back, peaceful nomadic lifestyle? One avenue to that is what we'll discuss next.


Confederations

Brothers and sisters, do you ever tire of lusting after power? When you jump into a game as a meek little Count, do you wish friends and neighbors would stand together with you against the masters of the world? Do you want something new to do as a tribal? Say no more, my brothers and sisters - but the sacred words, the oath of confederation!

In short, Confederations are a new way for nomads and tribals to feel safe while initially building their power, playing tall, etc. It’s also a bit of an extra challenge for those looking to easily gobble up areas of the map that lack a mighty King or Emperor.

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[12th c. Estonia mightn’t have looked quite like this, but hopefully this captures some of its spirit]

The inspiration for Confederations came from a visit to beautiful Tallinn, Estonia (which I very highly recommend), a fascinating conversation with a very learned scholar in medieval Baltic history, and a visit to the Great Guild Hall Museum. Therein, an exhibit asked the question — “Why did Estonia not become a Kingdom?”

It’s an interesting question, with at least a few answers. In a sense, the Estonian tribes did actually have kings, but these were temporary war-leaders or spiritual figures, and they did not serve to unite all the tribes together into one lasting polity. They are mentioned, as stubborn figures of resistance, in the Christian chronicles of conquest. This kind of defensive decentralization seemed new for CK3; I immediately wanted to represent it in our game. And, of course, there are the steppe confederations of history — the Khamag Mongol, the Kimek-Kipchaks, the Mogyërs, and so on — to consider and draw from as well. I’m also a Canadian btw, and Confederation has been a force of history around the Great Lakes for quite a while.

Let’s go through the confederating process, and discuss.

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[The Decision that lays the path to Confederation]

The first step is a Decision that enables you to offer Confederation to other rulers. Its warnings are to be taken seriously — you will likely have to leave your Confederation if you want to increase your station in the world (through means like title creation, migration, Dominance) or enrich yourself by raiding/attacking your fellow weaklings.

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[The requirements for starting a Confederation; you have to be something of a small fish]

Who can make a Confederation? Well, you have to be standing on your own, and you can’t be standing very tall. These same restrictions apply to all prospective Confederates.

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[Additional Confederation triggers. Most of the time, you’ll need a big, scary common foe]

Confederations in Crusader Kings III will be fleeting, ephemeral things, and focused largely on deterring the depredations of powerful neighbors. Thus, they will almost always be created in response to major powers being at their borders. It’s been really cool to watch Conquerors and great kings arise and, as they do, Confederations spring up all along their underbellies like nests of rats or colonies of fire ants. There is now a third, sometimes-viable alternative to “submit or die.”

The possible faith hostility trigger also works really nicely along the borderlands between pagan tribals and reformed faiths: it means the former can often be seen making the Confederation defensive arrangement to resist the brutal tide of history.

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[You’re ready for Confederation… you just need a buddy to join you]

Given Confederations are available across the map, to both nomads and tribals, related content is laced with conditional loc and effects to keep things from feeling too inappropriate. That said, this isn’t a content-heavy feature; development on Confederations instead focused on making it an effective new mechanic.

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[The interaction used to create a Confederation, and also to add new members]

The character interaction Offer Confederation (unlocked by the Call for Confederation decision or by Confederation membership) is how this brothers-in-arms, last stand-style shit comes to pass. Notice that, because migration removes members from the Confederation, there are incentives to stay put for a bit longer (a positive County Fertility modifier and an immediate County Fertility boost). AI should also be more reluctant to migrate than usual, at least for a few years.

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[Weights are pretty comprehensive and pretty make-or-break]

Your level of investment in your confederation can make a big difference in its strength: herd, prestige and hooks can be sacrificed to make valid members more willing to join.

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[Well isn’t that nice - he accepts!]

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[Note the Confederation icon and breakdown]

Confederations aren’t a title. Their closest equivalent is an alliance or truce, thus they live in the Diplomacy space of the Character view. Here, you can see all members of the Confederation.

The Kimek Confederation is a culture-based name, which happens when both the first members are of the same culture. When they aren’t, the Confederation will be named after the founder’s de jure duchy (ex. the Semey Confederation, the Kargassia Confederation).

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[A handful of Kimeks have joined the Confederation (squint, it’s on the left)]

On the map, Confederations will look similar to the new Tributaries: their individual realm names are replaced by the overall Confederation and their map colors are blended towards the main Confederation color (which is based on the founder’s capital).

You may notice that the members remain rather unevenly-sized. That’s because only independent top rulers are members of the Confederation, and their vassals (if they have any) are not.

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[The Confederation is attacked!]

When a Confederation member is attacked is when the organization really comes into its own. All members are automatically added as Defenders. This can result in a pretty potent nest of bees that the aggressor has just poked. Accordingly, the combined strength of a Confederation is shown when opening the Declare War screen on one of its members, and AI should be appropriately hesitant to attack strong Confederations.

Note that this applies only to members’ defensive wars. They cannot call on the Confederation when they themselves declare offensive wars.

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[The Decision for when a Confederate decides it’s time to go…]

While AI will usually give the Confederation at least a few years of their time, players are quite free to strike off on their own whenever. Albeit… for a higher Prestige cost during the first couple years.

The AI weighting for this Decision is heavily dependent on circumstances. Chief among these is the presence of big nearby threats that necessitate confederation. The result is that, where confederations are needed, they should prove much more lasting and resilient. And when they are no longer needed, they should often quickly disband.

image-24.png

[BROTRAYAL]

And there it is, Confederations! I hope this run-through has cleared up the feature. And remember — the CK player who stands alone, dies alone. Call up a friend right now and ask if they’d FUCKING DIE for you. Post results in the comments.

Raid Intents

We discussed raid intents in the previous dev diary, with a small WIP screenshot. It’s time to expand on what we said then.

First of all, we should talk about loot. As you all know, we’ve had loot in the game for quite a while. Gold you can take from a settlement as you raid them as a tribal ruler or a pagan, which you then bring back home to turn into gold and prestige. We haven’t changed the core mechanic of loot, but we have disconnected it slightly from purely being gold, now that you have more ways of using it. With Raid Intents, we now have ways of turning that loot into other things, to symbolize your aims as you are raiding foreign lands.

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Here is the new raid intent screen (for nomads), after a small art pass and after we added some proper names. Now, let’s look at the default raid intent for nomadic rulers, Pillage.

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[Note that none of the numbers are final, so they might change before the release]

It’s a fairly straightforward calculation. If you bring home 100 loot, you will get 100 gold and 150 herd out of it when you return to your borders.

Most of the other raid intents have some kind of separate side effects in addition to their base calculation, so let’s look at some of them.

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Nomads were known for raiding far and wide, with the Hungarian raiders, for example, bringing home loot from all across Europe. With the Adventure raid intent, it will take a bit longer to raid each settlement, but you can carry a significantly larger amount of loot with you, and you will take no hostile county attrition.

It should be noted that within the steppe, nomad raiders will not take any hostile county attrition, regardless of raid intent, but they will regularly take attrition outside of it.

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Plunder symbolizes that you aren’t necessarily just taking anything but trying to find the most valuable things to take. It will take significantly longer to raid every single settlement. Still, the loot conversion as you get home is considerably better, and you have a chance to learn innovations of a culture as you raid a settlement if they know about something you do not (though the chances are quite low).

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For those less interested in the loot itself but rather other side effects, you might want to take the capture raid intent to significantly increase the chance of capturing someone as you raid a settlement. It’s great if you are looking to ransom someone.

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And last but not least, you have the opportunity to destroy. It’s an opportunity for nomads to increase their prestige (as they don’t get any prestige from other raid intents) and their dread (which is more important for nomads). It also destroys buildings and development in settlements they raid.

Now, one thing to mention is that we don’t only have raid intents for nomads but for other raiders as well. Regular raiders also have access to the Terrorize raid intent, so feel free to bring destruction to your enemies no matter which flavor of uncivilized you are. They also have access to Pillage, but in a slightly different form:

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Like current functionality, you simply change your loot to gold and prestige. And for Vikings, they have access to a slightly modified version of the Adventure intent.

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If you want to raid your way down to Constantinople and then home again, feel free to take this to bring all that loot back home.

Now for the other side, you can destroy the raiders as they enter your lands, but we have also made one small adjustment so you can protect yourself a bit against any incoming threat.

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We have increased the hostile raid time reduction in the building, so you have more time to respond to incoming threats. It now also reduces the chances of special raid intents. In other words, it reduces the improvements from the Capture raid intent, minimizes the chance of Terrorize ruining your lands, and for Plunder to find any innovation.

Upgrading the building will improve the effect and block raid intent special effects from happening outright. In other words, something to keep in mind if you experience a lot of raids in your lands.

Next Week

That’s it for this week. Next week, we plan to revisit migrations and the nomadic government, so we hope to see you again then. Go forth and conquer, my blood brothers.
 
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Something confederations might be useful for is that it could basically disable Conquest CB against members of your own culture (except maybe in rare cases like a rivalry). This could also come with a drastic reduction of demense for tribals. Maybe even when your culture is united under a single confederation you lead, you can then make the choice to become a King through religious reformation. That way, if you want to unite the tribes of your people, you have to play the diplomatic game some, and save the wars of expansion for outsiders.

I just am always thinking of ways tribal can be different, and could more reflect the idea that you are playing a people and families and less so a government.
 
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With Tributaries is it possible for them to become vassals?

Admittedly I recall some stuff in antiquity of Tributaries joining their overlord willingly so was curious if it was possible to make Tributaries and peacefully or "peacefully" work them into your Empire or Kingdom.
 
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Every single county has to have some government type. Herders move in when nomads move out and are unplayable.
Well yeah, but the "Herders" also, seemingly, represent decentralized nomadic tribes who live in small settlements peacefully grazing their lands as opposed to the "Nomad" governments which have centralized authority and participate in trade and warfare. The former is more representative of the traditional Sami lifestyle, so wouldn't it make sense to make them into herders?
 
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I wonder if it would even be plausible. I mean, can a member of a confederation be a tributary? I think the two use similar systems.
I believe that it is two different systems. Confederation is using a diplomacy system and tributaries are using a system that was used only for vassals before, that's why both vassals and tributaries are called subjects now. Besides they explicitly said in the dev diary that to form or become part of the confederation you need to not be a tributary. So tough luck.
 
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Well yeah, but the "Herders" also, seemingly, represent decentralized nomadic tribes who live in small settlements peacefully grazing their lands as opposed to the "Nomad" governments which have centralized authority and participate in trade and warfare. The former is more representative of the traditional Sami lifestyle, so wouldn't it make sense to make them into herders?
Saami were not reindeer herders at this time.
 
Are there any downsides to non nomadic tributaries beyond them breaking the tribute once your character dies? To me, at least, it looks like they're probably going to give a lot more valuable resources (ie everything besides levies, especially gold) than normal feudal and clan vassals do, and I sort of doubt that they'll be that difficult to retain through generations if you can keep making people around you your tributaries through war.

Given all of that is correct, then what's there to discourage players from focusing on gathering a ton of tributaries and keeping them under their thumb via war after each of their rulers dies?

I really like the look of tributaries so far, as well the roleplay value, but I'm concerned about non nomadic tributaries being such a better option (income wise) compared to normal vassals that it's not worth focusing on anything else 90% of the time.
While I already raise some concern about this and it's probably not historical in Europe but when All Under Heaven release, this play style will be rather appropriate to SEA.

The downside of large amount of tributaries will probably be that when it rains it pour aka cascading tributaries declare independence war when you lose enough wars/battles.

Might not be that much of a problem for veteran player but it's a risk nonetheless, a major one too.
 
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Will tributaries count towards your vassal limit? (In which case I suppose it'd become "subject limit") It'd be odd considering you're not actually governing them.
 
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It's a pity that the Caucasus, especially its northern part, has not been developed again. And judging by everything, it is unlikely to be developed now. There have been additions about Persia, Byzantium, and now about the nomads. That is, literally about all the regions around the Caucasus. And judging by the screenshots, the number of provinces hasn't changed, and no new states have been added. And there's really no hope for such an option
 
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Well yeah, but the "Herders" also, seemingly, represent decentralized nomadic tribes who live in small settlements peacefully grazing their lands as opposed to the "Nomad" governments which have centralized authority and participate in trade and warfare. The former is more representative of the traditional Sami lifestyle, so wouldn't it make sense to make them into herders?
But that would also make them unplayable. Having them as optional nomads is better.
 
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That's a good point and we really appreciate feedback like this!! While the AI is already less likely to select the Raze raid intent, we will also make it possible for non-nomad rulers to Purchase Truce with nomad realms to prevent raiding for a limited time. Weaker settled realms might just cave and become tributaries, but stronger ones should be more inclined to buy the nomads off on a semi-regular basis to prevent their investments from damage.

What we don't want to do is not make it possible for nomads to burn everything in their path to the ground. The long-term benefit of having your settled opponents weakened by neighboring nomads while you're immune due to paying them off is, however, quite historically appropriate and a decent strategy (at least in the short-term). There's already a lot of game balance changes that will result from Khans of the Steppe due to the very different game dynamics introduced by e.g. herd, land fertility, and seasons, and the game will of course be rebalanced around all of this + the new raid intents.

Thank you for acknowledging my concern. I appreciate it, and recognize you and the team's concern from the other direction. I recognize what you intent is, and acknowledge it is both legitimate and something that players will want to do. :)

If I might raise some measure that might mitigate my concern, while leaving it inline with what I believe your intent is?

(Disregard as you please, of course.)


(Soft) Limits on Terror-Raiding

1 - Message Criteria: Have distinct UI pop ups for if your realm or your domain is being raided
Reason: Players with larger realms might not want to be bothered defending larger realms, but make it a priority alert to know if their own domain is in trouble

2 - Purchase Truce cost-balancing: Raid-truces might scale off of the raider's base income, not the landed rulers (larger) income
Reason: Current truce purchases are scaled by the proposers income. In 867 in particular, this contributes to poor rulers remaining too poor to invest in econ buildings, especially since more gold costs will likely arise. Smaller gold costs for nomads will help with the higher likelihood* of more nomad truces being necessary.

*Particularly since the raider you purchased a truce from may migrate, or have vassals who are not covered by the truce, or there are so many raiders who can range you. This is particularly true with the Norse.

3 - Clearly signal Terrorize raiders with distinct graphics / sounds / etc.
Reason: If Terror-raiders are easily identifiable at a glance (such as fire / pillage effect, and a screams-of-terror effect if zoomed in), it will help distinguish them from other, less concerning raiders. Ideally this might also be visible at sea, such as some storm-cloud effect around terror-vikings.

4 - Gate Terror-raiding behind traits, perks, or relationships
Reason: Rather than a weighted chance systems (that presumably would favor, but not limit, certain traits), have terror-raiding gated to specific character aspects that can be recognized by inspecting characters. Say that a character requires certain traits (sinful / violent traits like Wrathful, Sadistic, Greedy, etc.), going a bit down certain lifestyles (Overseer, Torturer, and Avaricious), or a particular character relationship (rivalry, house feud). In the last case, perhaps a special AI planning so that rivals will pursue it only against certain hated enemies, but will try to raze as much of that character's domain, and family domain, as possible.

5 - Ensure hostages (generally) prevent terror raiding (by prioritizing capture-raiding)
If possible, taking hostages from raider-realms should have them prioritize capture-raiding in future raids on you, so that they try to capture (free) any hostages and take your own family hostage. Aside from being a way to prevent the worst raids, it opens up a space for family feuds, especially if paired with a rescue casus belli below.



Victim-focused measures to deal with raiding

1 - Provide a small legitimacy for defeating raiders, and vassal benefits for countering terror-raiders in particular.
Reason: This gives players a an incentive to hunt-down the raiders going after vassals, and mitigates gold/income losses for the AI who do the same. In the current model the main reward for countering raiders is the gold recovered. Legitimacy could substitute. Gaining vassal hooks / favor for defending their lands / recovering their family could help.

2 - Increase acceptance for Head of Faith gold requests / charity acts for terror raid victims to rebuild
Reason: This could leverage religion / culture systems to help mitigate raider costs. For the appropriate faiths, an ability to get a lump sum of money after a raid could help restart reconstruction.
*This would likely need a script so that the AI would not only ask for the gold, but actually use the gold for construction, unlike the current AI which often won't spend gifted gold on buildings due to income concerns.

3 - Provide a chance to take-back prisoners taken by raiders you defeat in the field
Reason: This could provide an interesting way to get characters out of raider-jail and play internal realm politics. Currently, prisoners from raid teleport to the dungeons of the raider. If a short-term tag were added, then perhaps taking out the army that captured them could reverse the capture, transferring them to the victor instead. This could provide interesting choices, such as options to release a vassal's family member for leverage, free people for relations, kill them for reasons, or just rescue family members you landed in the realm.

4 - Provide raid-victims a window for a rescue-pursuit cassus belli
Reason: A rescue cassus belli is a way to have wars to mitigate the raids, without conquering them. Cassus belli that don't require / directly allow conquest should be encouraged over those that occupy more of the map. Additionally, this could cover a gap with the 'there's no way to take back your wife who was made concubine of a raider,' which annoying. Having a window of opportunity- say you can launch a pursuit / rescue casus belli until the nomads return home and demobilize- would incentive immediate responses, but not require you to literally catch the raiding army before it returns home like chasing the raiding army itself might.

5 - Provide a 'Punishment Expedition' casus belli to target / force no-raid truces on top-level lieges (and weaken their dominance)
Reason: A bit historical, in that the Chinese had various campaigns to mitigate potential nomadic threats. This could be a role players want to play, by using this casus belli after a raid to force a raid truce and cripple the target's ability to exert dominance.
 
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While I already raise some concern about this and it's probably not historical in Europe but when All Under Heaven release, this play style will be rather appropriate to SEA.

The downside of large amount of tributaries will probably be that when it rains it pour aka cascading tributaries declare independence war when you lose enough wars/battles.

Might not be that much of a problem for veteran player but it's a risk nonetheless, a major one too.
Id honestly hope that, since there's already being multiple types of tributaries, that there'd be a special version for SEA and Indonesia that would make that type of playstyle viable in those regions or for those cultures, and the generic type of tributary that any culture/ government type can have would be it's own thing.

My own ideas (obviously very close to what's already here lol, it's just small changes) for it would be that the general tributaries that you could have as the king of France or something would mostly be kept in line by your military strength and performance in wars and battles, provides a good bit less gold than a vassal and no levies, but also provides prestige, doesn't contribute to the vassal limit that we have now, and of course isn't kept as a subject between generations, maybe also there could be a tributary limit for only those generic tributaries. That way they're still worth it to get and serves a purpose, but it's more worth it to first get the most amount of vassals that you can before getting tributaries. And maybe you could get a year long truce with each tributary you lose whenever succession happens, but, admittedly, that could be an annoyance after a certain point and probably not the greatest idea of the bunch.
 
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Adventurers can become nomads but can nomads become adventurers? Or are they stuck in that government type until succession like admin rulers - who have to give up their court, wealth, and artifacts (unless they start the arduous process of sending them to favorite child) ?
 
While I already raise some concern about this and it's probably not historical in Europe but when All Under Heaven release, this play style will be rather appropriate to SEA.

The downside of large amount of tributaries will probably be that when it rains it pour aka cascading tributaries declare independence war when you lose enough wars/battles.

Might not be that much of a problem for veteran player but it's a risk nonetheless, a major one too.
Pretty sure they said SEA will get Mandala/unique government, so I think they will intergate this there with this government. Though the size of the expansion does worry me about how fleshed out this government will be.
 
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View attachment 1267814
A Turkic-Karluk still having Mongol style hair.The devs could give them the long dreadlocks which exist since Legacy of Persia.
Turks/Turkics did not only use Seljuk style dreadlocks, these types of strange partly shaven hair styles and braids were also always popular among Turks too. There is even a thing called “Turk head” in European heraldry with a hair style like this. You can google it
 
can we please get a client state type of tributary for admin realms? with more flexibility and directives to specialize them as needed. less about extracting wealth from the land and more about providing a buffer state against other large empires.
 
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1. As another user also mentioned; literally in every single 1066 game nothing ever happens in Anatolia. Seljuks attack Byzantine Empire for Greater Armenia region, sometimes they win sometimes they lose, they take Greater Armenia region and in few years they are getting attacked by someone or they get in a civilwar and collapse in few decades. That is happening because AI have no reason to invade inner anatolia. It would be nice if you guys try to change something here, like making some more nomadic Turkmen adventurer tribes living in Seljuk realm who wants to invade new territories for to make them grazing lands or making some of the Seljuks vassals nomads in search for grazing lands (which was the actual case in the history) And for that to work out, central anatolia also should be made a fertile grazing land too

2. A wide ranging cultural and ethnicity pack for different regions and cultures of Eurasian steppe. Like Manchu and Cumans were not wearing same stuff and their DNAs were also pretty different from each other. I trust ck3 staff on this and I think I am already seeing some variation in phenotypes. That’s pretty cool.
 
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I would also like if consideration could be given to confederations based on dynasty and ancestry. The Eoghanacht of Munster were such a confederation, likewise the Uí Néill, (the Rurikids too?). The head of the dynasty would thus be head of the confederation. Similarly the head of a confederation based on culture should be lead by the cultural ahead.

Perhaps if the first two members of a federation are of the same dynasty that the confederation would share the dynasty name.

There's great potential for this mechanic but I do think it needs padding out a little.
 
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We're looking to add a few Byzantine tributary realms as well as some Slavic tribes paying tribute to East Frankia, at least. If you have other suggestions let us know!
Maybe for Abbasids in some form, although maybe on the VERY low end of the tribute scale (like Aghlabids). And maybe for Tulunids around Hejaz and the Libyan Coast?
 
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I would also like if consideration could be given to confederations based on dynasty and ancestry. The Eoghanacht of Munster were such a confederation, likewise the Uí Néill, (the Rurikids too?). The head of the dynasty would thus be head of the confederation. Similarly the head of a confederation based on culture should be lead by the cultural ahead.

Perhaps if the first two members of a federation are of the same dynasty that the confederation would share the dynasty name.

There's great potential for this mechanic but I do think it needs padding out a little.
There can also be a case for confederate partition succession laws.
 
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