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Dev Diary #174 - The Mechanics of China

Welcome to the third dev diary for our upcoming major expansion - All Under Heaven!

My name is Daan Broekhof, aka Joror, a programmer on the CK3 team, and also the “feature steward” for China. What does that title mean? Well, it roughly means I am responsible for design and coordination in this area, making sure that our initial vision gets translated into intriguing, immersive, and fun gameplay.
This Dev Diary is about the gameplay mechanics for China; we will be trying to get into as many details as we can about what we have developed so far. Because yes - the DLC is very much still being developed and being iterated on right now, and we want to hear your thoughts on what we have so far.

Since China is the biggest focus of this expansion, many others are working on it as well, some will chime in throughout this dev diary. Hold on to your hats - this is going to be a chonky one.

(We might repeat some of the things revealed in the previous Dev Diaries #172 “The Full Medieval World” / #173 “The Map of China” - for clarity or cohesion; if anything seems contradictory please ask away and we will attempt to clarify!)

China - The Central State

One key understanding of Imperial China in the medieval era is that it is a sophisticated bureaucracy. Organized and centralized in ways seen nowhere else in the world at this time.

image_01.png

[Default paper map of 1066, centered on the Song, showing English map names - exact map coloring, drawings, naming, borders, and translations still Work in Progress!]

image_02.png

[Eastern paper map of 1066, centered on the Song, showing Chinese map names - exact map coloring, drawings, naming, borders, and translations still Work in Progress!]

It has many layers, ranging from the lowly district head to county magistrates, prefects, and provincial governors. Yet those are but the arms of the bureaucracy; in the central capital we have the heart of power: the central Ministers, the Grand Chancellor, and finally - the Emperor.

We want you, the player, to be able to rise up within this power structure, or perhaps even harder: challenge it from the inside - or the outside.



The Celestial Government

The government type for China is the Celestial Government - “Celestial” here is a reference to the Mandate of Heaven, the right to rule, held by the Emperor, who is also known as the Son of Heaven.

image_03.png


Unique to this government type is the way that titles under the Emperor (whose title is hereditary) are managed and distributed. Similarly to the existing Administrative Government type, these titles are given to the candidate who holds the highest score whenever such a title is vacated.

In contrast to Byzantium, the scoring calculation in Celestial Governments is heavily dictated by the Merit Rank you hold. Your governmental accreditation level, if you will. You can still spend Influence, but you will not be able to obtain a higher position unless you have reached a sufficient Rank. Having reached a sufficient rank out of the nine ranks of merit will mean having access to (and being expected to fill) positions of a certain tier, with Prefectures (Counties), Provinces (Duchies) and Circuits (Kingdoms) requiring a higher and higher rank. The Duchy level does not usually exist this way in medieval China, but we add it here for gameplay reasons.

As you have seen in previous dev diaries, the Chinese map also has de jure empires, but these will generally not exist in a stable era. Instead, the highest point in any career is the position of Minister, an Empire tier type of position that is covered in the following section.
Since China is so large, the Son of Heaven relies on his bureaucracy to fill vacant positions. While he can directly intervene if the situation requires, positions will generally be directly filled upon being vacated through this rank system instead of titles reverting to the Emperor, like they would in Byzantium.

Imperial Ministries

Note: This feature is still in very active development, so is more likely to be changed, scaled up, or perhaps scaled down!

「君之視臣如手足,則臣視君如腹心。」- 孟子
"If a ruler regards his ministers as his hands and feet, then his ministers will regard him as their heart and mind." - Book of Mencius, Li Lou II
(Part of the “Four Books”, which were the foundation of the Imperial Examination system during the Song Dynasty)

The central government of a Hegemony-tier Celestial Government is an impressive feat of bureaucracy, and where some say the true power of the Chinese Empire was found.
Throughout Chinese medieval history there were many Departments and Ministries that made up this central bureaucracy, and we’re opening up their leaders as titles and positions that players can vie for as the crown achievement of power in their civilian career! Only those with a very high Merit Rank will even be allowed to put their name forward.

These Department heads and Ministers will replace the regular Council of the Emperor, and they will work similarly but also differently to Councillors. First off, Ministers are not appointed by the Emperor directly when vacated. Instead, they also are filled by the same mechanics that select Governors for administrative vassal titles in the Empire. You can lobby to make yourself the next Minister of Revenue, but there might be many other powerful political entities competing for these titles.

The balance of power and the exact titles that existed for these varied during our time period. Generally speaking, the “Three Departments and Six Ministries” system existed from the Sui Dynasty (~580) to the Yuan Dynasty (~1271), and that is what we have taken as the main structure for the ministers. Additionally, we have selected two other powerful titles to be present: the Grand Chancellor and the Imperial Censor.

Mechanically, these positions will have landless titles of the Empire Rank, to signify their power under only the Emperor himself.

The Wheels of Bureaucracy

These positions will act as go-betweens between the governors and the Emperor, representing the delegated power of the Administration; the Emperor will often interact more directly with his ministers than specific governors, of which he has many. Many interactions that usually would target your liege will instead target a minister in Imperial China!

One way for these Ministers (and the Grand Chancellor / Imperial Censor) to influence the state, is through Great Projects - which are collaborative projects that characters can start and others can contribute to. (More about this in a later Dev Diary!)
For example, the Minister of Works could start an infrastructure improvement project targeting multiple Circuits, or the Minister of War could start a great project to start preparing for a big military campaign.

Ministers will of course get funds - Treasury, and a salary to be effective administrators, which they can use to pursue projects or agendas.

The Grand Chancellor


image_04.png

[Very initial work-in-progress view of the Grand Chancellor in the Council View]

Also called the “Prime Minister” or “Zai Xiang” 宰相, the Grand Chancellor is one of the most powerful political positions in Imperial China; they were the head of the entire civil administration and effectively served as the Emperor’s chief executive officer resulting in them often being seen as the highest-ranking official below the Emperor.

This title gives many powers, and in some situations is on an equivalent level to the Emperor. This title is also at the top of the Diarch Regency list, stepping in when the Emperor is unavailable.

The Imperial Censor


image_05.png

[Very initial work-in-progress view of the Imperial Censor in the Council View]

Leading an oversight institution called the Censorate, this role has the responsibility to investigate corruption, abuse of power, and nepotism. They also offer advice to the Emperor, and uniquely, they could challenge ministers, the Grand Chancellor, or even the Emperor himself.

This role is very similar to the Spymaster but lifted up even more in power by the ability to publicly challenge anyone in the bureaucracy, in both matters of illegal behavior but also moral behavior.

The Ministers

These roles are less powerful than the Grand Chancellor, but more powerful than any other official in the administration of Imperial China.
  • Minister of Personnel
    • Oversees civil service appointments, evaluations, promotions and dismissals.
  • Minister of Revenue
    • Handles census data, taxation, land distribution, and state finances
  • Minister of Rites
    • Manages state ceremonies, rituals, foreign relations (including tributaries), and the Imperial Examination system
  • Minister of War
    • Directs military appointments, strategy, logistics and defence
  • Minister of Justice
    • Administers laws, judicial review, prisons, and punishment
  • Minister of Works
    • Oversees public worlds, construction, engineering and infrastructure

image_06.png

[Very rough initial work-in-progress view of the Ministries in the Council View - yes they’re not very skilled, we know! Not all weights are in place yet]

Favor of the Emperor

The Emperor is not without power towards his ministers & top officials of course - he can even bestow the status of “Favored Minister” on any of them, granting them more Treasury to work with, and other benefits.

Province/Circuit Types

Similar to the Administrative system used in Byzantium and introduced in Roads to Power, the Celestial Government has “Province Types”; designations you can give titles (such as the kingdom sized Circuits) that specialize it for a specific purpose. In contrast to the Byzantine system, the number of each of these that you can have is often limited by the Circuit Type itself, the Dynastic Cycle Era, or specific Laws.

We have created two primary categories of Circuit Types: Civilian and Military. These correspond to the two career paths you can choose within the machinery of the Chinese state.

The main difference between these two categories is that the Civilian types will not have any Men-at-Arms, while the Military types will have (title bound) Men-at-Arms. When Civilian or Military governors need military assistance (for example from peasant uprisings, or worse), they can call in Military governors as allies in wars, usually requested via the Minister of War.

Different Circuit Types will also look different on your government “CV” - your Merit. Governing these titles will grant more or less Merit, depending on their tax base size, or size of armies.

Note: We’re still heavily tweaking the advantages and disadvantages of each of these Circuit Types! These values are not final and definitely will be tweaked.

image_07.png

[Screenshot of the Chinese city holding background illustration]


Standard (Civilian)

This is the most common type within the Empire and designates an area that is governed primarily by civilian rule. It does not usually have access to personal Men-at-Arms, or Title-bound Men-at-Arms.

image_08.png

[Tooltip of a Standard Administration circuit type - very basic, and values are placeholder]

Industrial (Civilian)

An area of industry! Focused on production and long-term development. You can have only a limited amount of them active. It does not provide any Title Men-at-Arms.

image_09.png

[Tooltip of an Industrial Administration circuit type - values are temporary and will change!]

Metropolitan (Civilian) - Advancement Era

A Circuit type which is focused on efficient administration of urban areas and urban development. It does not provide any Title Men-at-Arms. It can only be assigned when the Dynastic Cycle is in the Advancement Era, and is limited in number.

image_10.png

[Tooltip of a Metropolitan Administration circuit type - values are temporary and will change!]

image_11.png

[Screenshot of the Chinese castle holding background illustration]

Military Administration (Military)

This administration type focuses on raising and maintaining Title Men-at-Arms and military defensiveness. Development growth is hampered, and you can have only a limited amount of them. They would usually be set on border-circuits.

image_12.png

[Tooltip of a Military Administration circuit type - values are temporary and will change!]

Protectorate Administration (Military) - Expansion Era

This circuit type is focused on creating a more independent military entity that could sustain and operate by itself. It can even independently expand its own realm on orders of the Emperor. It is only available if the Dynastic Cycle is in the Expansion Era, and is also limited in number.

Usually reserved for areas further away from the Chinese core lands.

image_13.png

[Tooltip of a Protectorate Administration circuit type - values are temporary and will change!]

Your Career: Merit & Examinations

How do you prove that you would make a good Confucian ruler? Well, just like in the modern era, you have to take your exams! Exams are the way to get started on your career within Imperial China, and other realms that have copied the system from them.

You also get to choose your career path type: Civilian or Military. This choice determines what type of positions in the Empire you will be considered for. The Civilian path usually starts by obtaining a Civilian governorship at a low title tier, and goes all the way up to the Grand Chancellor, the right hand man of the Emperor.

The Military path will see you sent off to defend the borders of the Empire, first in Military governorships, and later perhaps coming to the capital as the Minister of War. The Military path is also one where you will be commanded by the Emperor to wage wars or campaigns on their behalf.

We have taken the traditional Chinese 9-rank system for Merit - which results in a reverse of the usual numbering, going from Rank 9 (starting rank) to Rank 1 (best rank).

Historically in Imperial China, there was a Candidacy Grade (資品), which was used for exams, and the Service Grade (官品), which was used when in office. We have combined the two for simplicity.

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[Merit Rank of a highly successful Governor, with placeholder icons to show which examination types have been successfully completed]

Examinations

Hi, I’m Axel, or @PinkAxelotl , and I am one of the designers working on Examinations.

As previously mentioned, Merit is key to securing government office. A character’s Merit score indicates how appropriate they are as an official in Meritorious East Asian administrative government types. It represents their documented achievements and moral conduct according to Confucian ideals. An official with a high Merit Level has a higher candidate score and (if employed) a higher salary. Characters who are not yet employed as governors can attempt to increase their merit by attending examinations.
The rank of merit also directly corresponds to how high a position a character can hold.

image_15.png

[Screenshot of the Imperial Examination activity in progress]

The examinations can be taken from the age of six via the Children’s Examination. You can set your children up for success by having them take the test, which increases their likelihood of attending higher level examinations. Next is the Provincial level, another local examination, represented in game as a multi-layered Decision. Successfully passing this test allows you to be considered for county-level appointments. More ambitious characters might set their sights on the prestigious higher-level examinations. The Imperial Examination is an in-game open activity hosted in the capital, it starts with the Metropolitan examination, from which the top ten entrants will move on to the exclusive Palace Examination, hosted by the Huangdi (Emperor) himself.

Apart from being generally gifted, being a good student of Confucius is important to secure a good score at the examinations.
In order to prepare, the obtaining and leveling of the Confucian Scholar trait can be achieved via studying at a university in China, or by finding a Confucian elder. More about elders and disciples later in this diary!

Lastly, there are also other ways to succeed if you are not very gifted or you do not trust that the time you spent studying the confucian classics will be enough. There were Examinees that were known to try to bend the rules, if not outright cheat, by for instance trying to get to know their examinators in advance.

Your Family Estate

When playing inside of China you will hold a family estate - to be built up over generations as a place to call your home. In some ways this is similar to your family estate in the Administrative government form from Roads to Power. This is where you can invest in permanent things that will keep benefitting your family in future generations - unlike the governorship lands which you only improve on behalf of the emperor. Unlike in Byzantium there will also be a different focus for what kind of benefits you may want. As an example, while you cannot guarantee a high merit score for your children, you can ensure that in your estate they are well educated (tracked through the Confucian education trait) as they grow up so that they may do well in the examinations.

image_16.png

[Screenshot of a simple Chinese family estate]

Another difference from the old domicile for administrative realms is that the things you can add to your family estate in a Celestial realm will depend on what titles and offices you currently hold. Some things you will only be able to build if you achieve specific things in your career, such as reaching the position of Minister in the central government.

Like many other things in the diary, the estate itself is still under development, and if you have suggestions for things you think we should cover here then please let us know!

The Imperial Treasury & Salaries

In Imperial China, Governors do not “own” the territory they rule over; they govern on behalf of the central government, and by extension, the Emperor. The tax you levy is not yours, they are the Empire’s. You are not supposed to spend all that on building out your estate, or to have many fancy feasts. That would be corruption; and quite illegal!

In this organized state, taxes are instead sent to the central government, which sends back resources earmarked for government use: a budget. Governors would receive salaries, which they could spend as they please.

To represent this central flow of money, we have implemented a new “gold flow” that is used by the Celestial government: the Imperial Treasury system. It uses a new resource called Treasury.

image_17.png

[Tooltip describing the Treasury resource]

It works as follows:
  1. As a vassal in the Empire, all taxes you collect from your sub-vassals and domain are sent upward to your liege, and they will send it upward similarly, until it reaches the Emperor. To contrast, Feudal Vassals send only a relative percentage up to their liege, and keep the rest.
  2. The Emperor will convert a large percentage of this vassal income into Treasury, a new resource that represents liquid assets that are supposed to be spent only on governmental tasks and investments. Whatever the Emperor does not convert is added to the Emperor's own coffers of gold. (Treasury has a 1-to-1 relationship to Gold, if they ever are converted.)
  3. Then the Emperor sends Treasury downward to all their governors (vassals), based on the taxes collected by each governor, plus any adjustments specific for the title they govern. Those vassals send down Treasury to their sub-vassals, etc. This could mean you might receive more Treasury from the central government than the taxes you were able to collect. For example, Military Governors in a Protectorate border circuit out in the barren desert might receive more, since they are paying for a sizable army.

At some point during the development of this system we created this flowchart, which I tweaked a bit for the Dev Diary! People like flowcharts, right?

image_18.png

[Example flowchart presenting how Taxes flow up to the Top Liege, and Treasury flow down from there]

What can you spend Treasury on then? All official government business! In the Celestial Government this translates to: All holding buildings, Provincial Men-at-Arms regiment costs, levy upkeep, most Great Project contributions, a few Activities, and any salaries you have to pay to your sub-vassals.

Conversely, all the things that belong to you privately, are paid for with Gold: Estate Buildings, quite a few Activities, personal Men-at-Arms regiments, Schemes, a lot of Court Positions.
At any given moment, you can also put your own Gold into the Treasury of your primary title, but beware, you cannot take it out again as Gold!

Additionally, Treasury belongs to the primary title of the receiver - so if you were to lose that title, that Treasury would move away with it.

So building up personal wealth is harder in a centralized system; you have your Estate, your Salary, and any other “shenanigans” to get Gold. Of course, there is also outright corruption - schemes and the like, and some shady Decisions. Whenever you or another governor of the Empire does so, the Dynastic Cycle slides more towards corruption.

We have rebalanced gold costs for various existing systems to better reflect that Circuit Governors aren’t actually as rich as Kings, even though they are the same title tier.

The Mandate of Heaven

The Emperor has a new Legitimacy Type - called the Mandate of Heaven, which has some additional triggers and expectations. It’s not always easy to receive the approval of the Heavens.
Should this Legitimacy be lower than expected, then the Mandate of Heaven is in doubt - and change is in the air.


The Dynastic Cycle

As stated in our Vision Dev Diary, the Dynastic Cycle represents the ongoing cyclical nature of Dynasties and power within Imperial China.

image_19.png

[In-development version of the Dynastic Cycle window, showing the currently active Era and Era Type]

The Dynastic Cycle is the tool we use to represent various different periods and ambitions of China in our game. The key periods that we want to be able to represent are:
  • The Tang Dynasty - An expansionist China, with more powerful independent military governors
  • The Five Dynasties & Ten Kingdoms Period - A divided China, where many states tried to claim the Mandate of Heaven, and re-unite China
  • The Song Dynasty - An inward looking China, where Merit, innovation, prosperity, and scholarship were held in high regard
  • The Yuan Dynasty - A China that was conquered by an outside force, which then tried to adopt and adapt the imperial system
  • The Early Ming Dynasty - A stronger defensive China, where the Emperor held more power over the Government, with a revival of exams and cultural writings

Since we create an alternative history from the moment we unpause the game, we want these different Dynasties and their policies and politics to be able to organically form and evolve. To do this, we created a new Situation (a type of persistent geographically bounded system) called The Dynastic Cycle, which can be in one of several possible Eras (Situation Phases), that can represent both the cyclical nature, and different types of China that existed.

Additionally, this Situation gives China a mechanism that encourages it to be united again more easily under the Mandate of Heaven - because if we add a force that encourages a cyclical fall, it needs a counter component for a cyclical rise.

Historical Note: The Dynastic Cycle is a concept that was formalized during the period that CK3 represents - and its cyclical nature was discussed in depth. For example Zhu Xi (1130-1200), a scholar during the Southern Song Dynasty, argued that the Dynastic Decline was not inevitable, and that the loss of moral virtue and ethical discipline could be prevented - if there is a structured society led by scholars, who were guided by principle and moral clarity.

What can each Era change?

Each Era affects those within China in various significant ways. Aside from the usual modifiers on characters and counties, our aim is to also give each Era things that are unlocked by them, that are distinct and useful.

These things can be:
  • Additional laws and policies that can be enacted
  • New Province (Circuit) types
  • New interactions towards others in China
  • Great Projects that can change society/warfare/infrastructure significantly
  • New Casus Belli

They can also take away some things to reflect a different nature of the realm, such as:
  • Restricting certain types of Casus Belli
  • Limiting or forbidding personal Men-at-Arms

For example, in the Expansion Era, the “Grand Expansionist Command” Army Command structure law option is available, which enables larger Title Men-at-Arms armies, at the cost of a heavy burden on the vassals of China.

Disclaimer: Not all effects are shown in the screenshot; also all mechanics are not final and have not yet been balanced!

image_20.png

[Example of the Army Command Structure Law, where the last option is unlocked if you are in the Expansion Era]

Eras and Their Effects

Each Era is sorted into one of the three following categories, or types:
  • Stable Era Type
    • Each of these represent a prosperous age - the Empire is stable, and the Mandate of Heaven is strongly held. These Eras enable extra-specialized laws, activity options, and represent to a certain extent the stated ambition of the government and Emperor. If the Emperor does not fulfill the ambition set forward by the Stable Era, they will suffer catalysts that drive the Era to an Unstable Era. Stable Eras generally can transition only into Unstable Eras, and not into other Stable Eras directly.
  • Unstable Era Type
    • Whenever the Mandate of Heaven is not strongly held, and the Empire is not operating at its peak, the Dynastic Cycle is considered to be in an Unstable Era type. These Eras signify that the cycle is turning downward, but it can still be turned around with a lot of effort. If you are an ambitious servant of the Empire and you think that you can fulfill the Mandate of Heaven better than the current Emperor - now might be the time to consider your options.
  • Chaotic Era Type
    • Whenever the Mandate of Heaven is completely lost, the Empire is shattered, and the Dynastic Cycle is rotated to an Era full of uncertainty, wanton violence, regional independence, and potential.

Advancement Era (Stable Era Type)

In this Era, the Empire is focusing on improving itself by looking inward: through Innovations, cultural excellence, prosperity of the people, and good Meritorious Confucian governance.

Offensive wars are more limited, preferring instead to establish Tributaries and other relationships. Great Projects can be completed faster, with the focus of the Empire being directed inward. Imperial Exams can focus on producing the best Governors that the Empire has ever seen.

Historically the Northern Song period (960-1127) would be in this Era, and this is what China has at the 1066 start date. We also consider the Southern Song period (1127-1279) to be in this Era, even though they suffered a great loss of territory to the north, it is teetering on the edge of an Unstable Era. As such, this is also the Era active in our later start date - 1178.

Note: These effects are not final! We’re still tweaking here, especially around the limitations of Wars.

image_21.png

[Screenshot with effects of the Advancement Era]

Expansion Era (Stable Era Type)

In this Era, the Empire is focusing on growing stronger through looking outward: pacifying frontiers, expanding its reach through military force, Tributaries, and the Silk Road.

The Empire has more tools in its belt to expand - new Casus Belli, more armies, the Imperial Exams can focus on generating great Military Strategists, and a specialized Protectorate Administration circuit type is unlocked.

On the flip side, there are some downsides to this Era: Vassals that are not Administrative might war among themselves, it is harder to integrate lands into an ever expanding Empire. Rebellions and unrest are more likely.

Historically the Early and High Tang periods (618-756) could be considered to be in this Era. The Early Ming period (1368-1424) could perhaps also be considered to be in this Era, until it turned more isolationist.

Note: These effects are not final! We’re still tweaking here, especially around the types of Wars.

image_22.png

[Screenshot with effects of the Expansion Era]

Instability Era (Unstable Era Type)

The Mandate of Heaven is seen as wavering; either through corruption, popular unrest, foreign invasions, the Emperor acting against their own stated ambitions, non-Meritous behavior, or all of the above.

This is the general Era that China can be in when things are uncertain. The bureaucratic apparatus is stuttering - bringing in less taxes, corruption is easier to commit and more common, populist and peasant factions are more likely to express their discontent through violence. Distant parts of the Empire might drift away or even declare independence.

Historically, the Late Tang Era (756-907) could be considered to be in this Era, pushed into it by the massive An Lushan Rebellion. This means that our early start date 867 is in this Instability Era.

Note: These effects are not final! We are also considering creating a separate ‘Reform’ Unstable era to represent an Era willing entered into to reform from one Stable Era type to another; or might keep that concept included within this Era.

image_23.png

[Screenshot with effects of the Instability Era]

Conquest Era (Unstable Era Type)

The Mandate of Heaven has been taken by a force that is not inherently China. This Era is specifically triggered when the Hegemony of China title falls into the hands of someone who does not have the Celestial Government or a Cultural Heritage that is not Chinese. Their Government Type will become Celestial when the Title is taken, regardless.

This Era presents a time when the cultural cohesion of China is shaken, and with it, the Mandate of Heaven. This “foreign” Emperor can try to adopt and earn the Mandate of Heaven, and steer China into another Stable Era, or they can fall into a Chaotic Era where multiple forces strive for dominance.

A Conquest Dynasty like this is also able to exert an aggressive outward expansion, since that is what most likely got them here in the first place. Additionally, they can try and make their Culture dominant by preferring those of their own Culture to hold governorships.

Historically, the Yuan Dynasty period (1271-1294), which started when the Mongols under Kublai Khan conquered the majority of Southern Song, would be of this Era type.

Note: These effects are not final! We’re likely to add more rebellions/uprisings, and some other minuses similar to the Instability Era.

image_24.png

[Screenshot with effects of the Conquest Era]

Chaos Era (Chaotic Era Type)

“The Empire, Long United, Must Divide.”

When this Era starts, the Hegemony of China title is destroyed, and all direct vassals of the Emperor become independent. Those ambitious enough can declare their own intent to claim the Mandate of Heaven and adopt a Dynastic name for their realm. The Celestial Government type is continued to be valid for these realms, but no true Emperor exists. The bureaucracy continues, but decentralized and less strong. Alliances are quickly drawn up between those sympathetic to one another or merely out of necessity.

Historically, the Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms period (907-960) would be in this Era. (If you start in the early start date of 867, when the Tang is in the Instability Era, you are very likely to end up here as well, if this is your cup of tea.)

image_25.png

[Screenshot with effects of the Chaos Era]

What is Divided can be Re-united, however, through new Casus Belli that allow for wars to be plentiful; all in the name of the people and the Mandate of Heaven.

image_26.png

[Screenshot with the “Consolidate Land Under The Heaven” Casus Belli]

If one ruler achieves to control 75% of the de-jure Hegemony of China title, they can Claim the Mandate of Heaven via a Decision, and start a new Imperial Dynasty!

They will be able to select their Imperial Dynasty Name (if they have not done so already), and select one of the five Wuxing elements for their Dynasty, coloring China on the map in one of five possible colors.

A new Stable Era of their choosing is started, and the Dynastic Cycle turns once more!

Catalysts of Era Change

We have talked about all the different Eras now, but haven’t really told you how they would flow into each other, and how you could influence this!

Similar to Struggles from our other DLCs, the Dynastic Cycle uses Catalysts - triggered events with specific point values - to push Eras from one to another. The Dynastic Cycle usually turns relatively slowly, and Eras might last a hundred years if you balance things right.

The general flow of Era change is: Stable Era > Unstable Era > Chaotic Era > Stable Era > etc. There are some exceptions of course!

Unstable Eras can lead back to Stable Eras, if the tide is turned, but this generally speaking is not easy. Some Eras might trigger from circumstances; Conquest Eras specifically are usually triggered when a large war for the title of China is lost.

Catalysts come into play primarily in the Stable and Unstable Eras, and here are some examples from the Advancement Era towards the Instability Era.

Some Catalysts are immediate triggers for a new Era because of their weight:
  • The Hegemon loses the Mandate of Heaven - their Legitimacy is at rank zero
  • A new House inherits the Hegemony title

One-off Catalysts are things that you can cause yourself:
  • The Hegemon loses a War
  • The Imperial Capital is Raided or Besieged
  • An Imperial House member is murdered
  • A Governor embezzles from the central government

Others are more symptoms of corruption and/or incompetence:
  • The Imperial Treasury is empty
  • The Hegemon appoints a Low Merit Councillor (/Minister)
  • Failing to hold Imperial Exams

Yet others are political in nature - an opposing Movement is strong
  • Yearly Drift: The Expansion Movement has the most Movement Power

Our intent with these Catalysts is to give players more tools to directly start or stop catalysts from happening, so that even though the Eras might change slowly, inevitably, you can help things along or delay them significantly.

Note: These catalysts are still very much under development, we’re very likely to remove/add/rebalance many of them!

image_27.png

[List of some catalysts to enter the Instability Era, from the Advancement Era]

Political Movements

Hi, I’m Arkadiusz, or @PDS_Arky , and I am one of the designers working on the Dynastic Cycle and China. One of the new mechanics I’ve been responsible for is the Political Movements in China.

Unlike in Byzantium, Chinese Governors can share values that transcend their personal goals. Using the Situation Participant Group feature we’ve created 4 distinct political movements in the Dynastic Cycle Situation:
  • Pro-dynasty - Characters in this group support the Emperor in everything,
  • Expansion - They want to change the Dynastic Cycle to the Expansion Era,
  • Advancement - They want to change the Dynastic Cycle to the Advancement Era,
  • Conservative - This movement seeks to resist reform, instill a moral hierarchical order, and empower scholar-official elites.

There is also an Unaligned group that doesn't have any unique mechanics and doesn't represent any values, but its members are susceptible to being persuaded to join other Movements.

In history, during the Song Dynasty, the notable reformer Wang Anshi would be the leader of the Advancement Movement (“Reformers”), and Sima Guang leader of the Conservative Movement. They would debate policy before the Emperor, eventually leading to the implementation of Wang Anshi’s “New Policies”. These two Movements would clash for over 40 years in “ethical factionalism” with ruthless purges of each other.

image_28.png

[Screenshot of Political Movements in Dynastic Cycle UI]

Each movement is affected by the Dynastic Cycle Eras in a different way, through character modifiers and unique unlocks. Movements will support their members by using friendly interactions and schemes between each other (and hostile against other movements), and have access to unique interactions, decisions, etc. or unique options inside them. Some of those will trigger a catalyst that will move the Dynastic Cycle in a certain direction. When in Stability, catalysts will push towards Instability, while in Instability they can either push to Chaos or back to Stability.

image_29.png

[Screenshot of interactions available towards a member of a different Movement]

Each movement has a Leader. A Movement Leader has access to the Emperor and can issue a unique petition via decision to further their movements goals or help fellow members. In order to become a leader, you have to prove yourself in front of other members and defeat the current leader in a political debate. As a Leader you can engage in another type of Debate in front of the Emperor to win Imperial favor, leading to your Movement becoming Empowered, granting it more powers to grow the Movement and change the Dynastic Cycle Eras.

image_30.png

[Screenshot with Make Movement’s Petition Decision by Movement Leader]

The Movement’s clout is expressed in a Movement Power value, which is a collection of Personal Movement Powers of all its members. There are various ways to increase the power, some permanent (gaining merit, governor trait experience, age) while others temporary (political schemes, military strength, disciples).

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[Screenshot with list of Expansion Movement members and tooltip over Personal Movement Power]

image_32.png

[Screenshot with Movement Power game concept tooltip]

We have also added a new type of relation: Elder and Disciple, to further highlight the social connections and hierarchy. The relation is tied to Merit; a Disciple needs to have less Merit than the Elder, otherwise the relation cannot be established or ends amicably. Two main ways of acquiring Disciples is to convince them to join your Movement or mentor them directly through a new political scheme. Disciples also lend their Movement Power to the Elder.

image_33.png

[Screenshot with Disciples relation in Character window and Disciple game concept tooltip]

image_34.png

[Screenshot with Request Mentorship interaction showcasing a character becoming a Disciple]

In the Chaos Era, the Movements disband, but the relation prevails. The connections you made will help you keep the power base and quickly reestablish the Mandate of Heaven in your favor.

Movements will contest each other, and a wise Emperor will make sure that there is a balance between them, less they create a Movement with so much power it could operate the Empire without him.



And More To Come

We try to limit our dev diary size somewhat to not info-dump too much all at once, so we’ll keep it here for now… but I will post a little teaser here for more China-related mechanics that we handle in the near future:
  • Hegemonic Tributaries - Tributaries that are formed when outside rulers acknowledge the Hegemony, and in turn receive recognition, economic benefits - and more.
  • Great Projects - We did not mention the Great Wall or the Grand Canal, or other obviously Chinese great projects - but rest assured, we will get there
  • Border Warfare - We are experimenting with allowing realms to wage war on sub-vassals of big realms in certain circumstances, without immediately drawing in the top liege. This gives larger empires like the Chinese Empire more local military delegation, and also a new type of threat.
Please let us know what you think of all of these features! Many are still work-in-progress, and the more we hear from you, the better we can adjust them.

Our next Dev Diary will be about Japan, its territories, and various mechanics. See you all next time, and 谢啦, 祝你愉快! (Thank you, I wish you happiness!)
/Joror
 
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One random thing I am not a fan of: +10 Life Expectancy that Stable Eras & Conquest Eras get. I understand it may be to show that Chinese have a big traditions of medicine, but I don't think that there is a reason for the Chinese characters to be that much more long lived over e.g. the Emperor of Japan, the Shahanshah of Persia, or various Indian rulers. China is not alone in having its own traditions of medicine.

Moreover, it looks meme-y with regards to the Conquest Dynasties. I mean: the big, expansive nomad realm conquers China, and proclaims Hegemony... and suddenly everyone lives so much longer? It feels less like conquering China, and more like finding a fountain of youth of this point, tbh.
We're still working on where to place this modifier (which allows for more elderly rule more reliably, which is very Imperial Chinese) - it is a bit 'off' in its current location. :)
It might move to another place such as: the government type / a law (health policies) / a cultural trait / an innovation.
 
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The features for China sounds promising. Good DD.
 
How does one vacate their office? Do they vacate their office if they get a promotion? In Admin government, there is a lack of a promotion feature as you giving someone a new better province by firing them and giving them a new province as strategos is often not understood by the AI.
In Celestial Admin, you can 'side step' to a similar tier governor tier, which sees you abandon your previous same-tier title. Then of course someone else will pick that up, etc. So there should be a bit better behaviour by the AI there.
Celestial Admin will see more title changing; were also experimenting with a limited form of retirement - a retirement age law (with different age options). This makes it easier to request a "forced retirement" of that 80-year old governor if you need to.
 
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‘Reform’ Unstable era is an excellent design,I support using this.
Some suggestions:
1.A wise emperor would never allow a single prime minister to threaten him. He will arrange multiple prime ministers to form a cabinet. And a person who has ambitions for imperial power will inevitably push others out of the position of prime minister.
2.The imperial censor is responsible for supervising rather than espionage work. The agency responsible for intelligence work in the Song Dynasty was called the Imperial Capital Control Department. Its commander is known as Handler of Official Affairs of the Imperial Captial Department.
3.The Southern Song Dynasty was clearly an era of war and turmoil. Procincial peace cannot represent the stability of the entire China.I hope to add an unstable era of "north-south confrontation" and a stable era of "north-south appeasement" to explain this phenomenon.
4.There were no actual circuit chiefs in the Tang and Song Dynasty.The circuit type you designed should be applied to Counties and Duchies.Instead, more officials at the level of landless kingdoms rank can be opened up.
5.In fact, Wang Anshi's development faction also represents the voice of expanding territory. If you persist in doing so, it may divide the entire reformist faction into two.
6.The main military force of the Song Empire did not come from Junzhou, but from a large standing army group with central financial supply (which was quite inefficient in the Northern Song Dynasty, but effective in other periods). Mechanistically, these armies should be led by military officials holding landless titles. The military power of the Liao Dynasty came from the military provinces and the central army; The military strength of the Jin Dynasty mainly came from the central army, different local military institutions, and Levies (qianjun).
 
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Ancient Chinese politics is a complex and fascinating topic. I have some suggestions that might be helpful. The translation of "朋党" should not be called as"political movements" . "Political factions" is a better name.Because members of these factions are bound together politically. People in the same faction help each other, control central or local resources, and when a faction grows powerful enough, it can even challenge the emperor's authority. Their influence goes far beyond just pushing for reforms.
For example, the Political factions helped each other to embezzle local property, for example, if they did not pay taxes for 3 months, then they needed to give bribes to his Political factions officials to do to cover up the facts, for example, they would persuade the emperor that it was a flood in order to get relief grants.And rival Political factions collect evidence, expose it, and then enter into debates with each other, after which the emperor can arbitrate and let the Ministry of Justice deal with it, which does most of the work of dealing with party political events.

In addition I would suggest to add civil officials and military officials as 2 non-rulers to enter the game play, as adventurers should not exist in stable China, consider using these two as replacements, and these two can also be combined with the Political factions mechanic and the FamilyAnd these two can also be combined with the Political factions mechanic and the Family mechanic, which is a great improvement for the Chinese dlc.

As a civil official can obtain a certain official position through examination, not necessarily as a local ruler, he can increase his influence and get a salary by making friends with his Political factions and running Family Estate.He can increase his influence and get extra money through making friends, running Family Estate, improving his influence and getting extra money from his salary, he can improve his official position and his ability through political achievements and the imperial examination, in order to eventually become a prime minister.As a general, you can train your own troops, and gain prestige and rank through conquest missions given by the court or by completing defense battles.

Further, the two professions can be utilized to form a game with the emperor by combining the Political factions system. As a general, excessive strength or disobedience to court orders will cause the emperor's suspicion, and at this time, there is the possibility of reducing or cutting off the supply to the army or arresting the emperor for various crimes, such as Yue Fei, which is an example. This time as the need to join the Political factions forces in the court, in order to obtain the trust of the emperor, the same strong generals can also increase the power of the Political factions forces, expand his influence in the court.

I wish my suggestion could give help.
 
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Since you left that door open, I simply have to ask: what about the more unusual paths then?

On a related note, would it be possible, in theory, to go Advancement -> Expansion -> Advancement -> Expansion, to remain stable just as Zhu Xi envisioned?

Unusual paths would include being conquered by an outside force, which forces a triggering of a Conquest Era (Unstable Era type), which could then turn to a different Stable Era. Perhaps not a path I would recommend. :D
 
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This is neat and I'm feeling pretty optimistic!

Suppose that I'm a non-Chinese ruler and I conquer a big chunk of China, or maybe the whole thing. Can I avoid using the Chinese government mechanics? For example, by just not claiming the hegemony and integrating it into another title? Or does the geography force me into that system for as long as I hold the land?
 
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Thank you, Daan and team! Interesting stuff overall. Just dropping some thoughts, questions, and 'hm, that could be useful in the future' comments that seem especially promising.

Imperial Ministries

...

These Department heads and Ministers will replace the regular Council of the Emperor, and they will work similarly but also differently to Councillors. First off, Ministers are not appointed by the Emperor directly when vacated. Instead, they also are filled by the same mechanics that select Governors for administrative vassal titles in the Empire. You can lobby to make yourself the next Minister of Revenue, but there might be many other powerful political entities competing for these titles.

The balance of power and the exact titles that existed for these varied during our time period. Generally speaking, the “Three Departments and Six Ministries” system existed from the Sui Dynasty (~580) to the Yuan Dynasty (~1271), and that is what we have taken as the main structure for the ministers. Additionally, we have selected two other powerful titles to be present: the Grand Chancellor and the Imperial Censor.

Mechanically, these positions will have landless titles of the Empire Rank, to signify their power under only the Emperor himself.

With the Emperor not directly appointing ministers, this raises two questions / hopes-

1 - Can the existing ministers compete on putting a finger on the scales for 'their' candidates, such as family / allies / fellow movement members? And perhaps scheme to take down a rival movement / rival's family?

Competing for getting allies / fellow movement members into high places seems like a good interim goal, and would be appropriate for a special political scheme targeting your own movement candidates (say with diplomacy / stewardship checks) or to undercut a rival (say intrigue / martial).

Recommendation:

If this is so, it may be worth letting the Movement Leaders have a unique bonus 'movement scheme slot' - a slot that can only be used for movement-boosting (or rival-movement negating) schemes.

The reason for this extra scheme slot is (a) as an interim step for players to aim for below the pinnacle of the bureacracy, but also (b) so that the AI spends more time boosting their own faction / getting into political rivalries. As I understanding it, the AI can struggle with concentrated scheming because the AI's scheme slot is limited, and AI personality means it will scatter what it does.

A dedicated movement/faction-scheme list, and a few dedicated schemers (one for every movement head) who are guaranteed to always be pursuing a factional scheme, could boost factionalism.

(And if it works for China, it could be repurposed later if/when the team ever revisits vassal stances into vassal-stance factions.)




2 - If a sufficient number of aligned ministers of a movement take the ministries, can they coordinate meanness to subordinate the Emperor?

I'm thinking in terms of if a Grand Chancellor is sufficiently powerful, they could force the Emperor into seclusion (remain in the hidden city with your concubines and activities, your magesty), while taking more power / advantages for themselves. And / or gain greater influence over not only future minister appointments for their movement, but maybe even also the next Emperor.

There would / should be some advantages to the non-chancellors besides just a few modifiers. Perhaps normally forbidden things, like the sort of special phase rules that are normally only available in chaotic times. This would give the cabal of ministers a great incentive / advantage over others, even as their abuse of power could lower overall legitimacy and turn the cycle- thus preventing a status quo stagnation of dominance.



I also raise these together because, combined, they could allow an interesting scenario- a court that is dominated by a dominant movement, for the player to overcome by politics rather than war.

Call it part roleplay - saving the Emperor and Empire from the ruinous court politics that are losing the mandate of heaven- but also a potential challenge, if a starting date (or maybe special rule) can provide the conditions for a dominant minister faction early on, for the player to either ingratiate and rise through, or struggle to dismantle over time.





The Wheels of Bureaucracy



The Grand Chancellor



Also called the “Prime Minister” or “Zai Xiang” 宰相, the Grand Chancellor is one of the most powerful political positions in Imperial China; they were the head of the entire civil administration and effectively served as the Emperor’s chief executive officer resulting in them often being seen as the highest-ranking official below the Emperor.

This title gives many powers, and in some situations is on an equivalent level to the Emperor. This title is also at the top of the Diarch Regency list, stepping in when the Emperor is unavailable.

The Imperial Censor



Leading an oversight institution called the Censorate, this role has the responsibility to investigate corruption, abuse of power, and nepotism. They also offer advice to the Emperor, and uniquely, they could challenge ministers, the Grand Chancellor, or even the Emperor himself.

This role is very similar to the Spymaster but lifted up even more in power by the ability to publicly challenge anyone in the bureaucracy, in both matters of illegal behavior but also moral behavior.

Question - Are these powers 'new,' or just 'more (but familiar)? And what sort of challenge can the Censor do?

Also- and because it seems the Chancellor and Censor are somewhat rivalrous given the different skill sets / powers- are there any systemic incentives for the Chancelor and Censor to clash?


For example / request - could the Chancellor and Censor compete with the Emperor / each other over getting to foster a potential heir, and then get special bonuses if the heir they foster gains the throne?

This bonus could be personal (a major bonus for the Diarch Regency), factional (the Emperor having a bias towards the Movement / a general buff to the movement), or even a phase-catalyst (a movement-favoring Emperor ascending the throne being a hefty catalyst in that movement's direction).







The Ministers

These roles are less powerful than the Grand Chancellor, but more powerful than any other official in the administration of Imperial China.
  • Minister of Personnel
    • Oversees civil service appointments, evaluations, promotions and dismissals.
  • Minister of Revenue
    • Handles census data, taxation, land distribution, and state finances
  • Minister of Rites
    • Manages state ceremonies, rituals, foreign relations (including tributaries), and the Imperial Examination system
  • Minister of War
    • Directs military appointments, strategy, logistics and defence
  • Minister of Justice
    • Administers laws, judicial review, prisons, and punishment
  • Minister of Works
    • Oversees public worlds, construction, engineering and infrastructure

This may just be my bad eyes, but is Minister of War not bolded?



Favor of the Emperor

The Emperor is not without power towards his ministers & top officials of course - he can even bestow the status of “Favored Minister” on any of them, granting them more Treasury to work with, and other benefits.

If / when treasury ever comes out west- such as in a Catholicism / investiture rework- this seems like a good 'Favor of the Pope' bonus to bless / bias things for a favored Bishop / ruler.




Province/Circuit Types


Standard (Civilian)

This is the most common type within the Empire and designates an area that is governed primarily by civilian rule. It does not usually have access to personal Men-at-Arms, or Title-bound Men-at-Arms.

View attachment 1315722
[Tooltip of a Standard Administration circuit type - very basic, and values are placeholder]

I note that Civilian still has 70% of its levies. Is there an intended use case?

IIRC you wouldn't be able to expand by war by levy-stacking, but can you gain merit / favors / other goodies by raising and sending them to put down peasant revolts on your own / supporting a miliary commander / etc.?

Recommendation / Request: Perhaps a movement / faction scheme, where the standard governor can 'donate' their levies to respond to a Minister of War project, or to a military governor? A military project could be a county modifier, with merit coming from the levy sizes given.



Industrial (Civilian)

An area of industry! Focused on production and long-term development. You can have only a limited amount of them active. It does not provide any Title Men-at-Arms.

View attachment 1315723
[Tooltip of an Industrial Administration circuit type - values are temporary and will change!]

Question / Request: With the number so limited, but that merit potential so high, is there a way to force someone to lose their vassal type?

Perhaps a political scheme to make a case, requiring some support of the Minister of Revenues and the Chancellor?


I'm just envisioning a case where the AI establishes an Industrial region in a really, really bad place, and it sticking for ages even as you are the governor of a great place.





Protectorate Administration (Military) - Expansion Era​

This circuit type is focused on creating a more independent military entity that could sustain and operate by itself. It can even independently expand its own realm on orders of the Emperor. It is only available if the Dynastic Cycle is in the Expansion Era, and is also limited in number.

Usually reserved for areas further away from the Chinese core lands.

image_13.png


[Tooltip of a Protectorate Administration circuit type - values are temporary and will change!]


Request / recommendation - Instead of governor efficiency that scales by martial, perhaps the Protectorate should have merit scale with either resting dread, or prowess?

When compared to the civilian track, both of the civilian special tracks scale merit by gold (and thus stewardship), but the more advanced Metropolitan had a diplomacy-scaling governor efficiency. Rather than just a martial check, Dread might be a better way to share the military/stability theme across martial and intrigue.

Both the martial education and the intrigue education have mechanical overlaps in ways to boost the character's prowess, or their ability to suppress / maintain control in even hostile lands (Overseer / Torturer).


Your Career: Merit & Examinations

How do you prove that you would make a good Confucian ruler? Well, just like in the modern era, you have to take your exams! Exams are the way to get started on your career within Imperial China, and other realms that have copied the system from them.

You also get to choose your career path type: Civilian or Military. This choice determines what type of positions in the Empire you will be considered for. The Civilian path usually starts by obtaining a Civilian governorship at a low title tier, and goes all the way up to the Grand Chancellor, the right hand man of the Emperor.

Question- is the Military path purely martial skill driven, or will prowess / intrigue be an 'alternative' route? All warfare is based on deception, and all that.

I raise this because it seems clear that the civilian system seems pretty centered on stewardship and diplomacy. The special civilian governorships being gold-to-merit (and thus stewardship) or diplomacy-scaling governor efficiency emphasizes that. Maybe also Learning, as the Scholar lifestyle can get those sweet councilor stats, though that's a jack-of-all trades.

Currently, the military route seems purely / solely about Martial capacity. That's a direct synergy, but it leaves a bit of a gap for where Intrigue is supposed to go. There doesn't seem to be an obvious way for Intrigue-educated characters to rise and thrive (and contribute to the chaos).

Given how many of the prowess skills are intrigue-oriented, and how dread can be most useful on those outer periphery where the culture gaps are widest, and intrigue- or at least intrigue-correlated things like prowess and dread- would be useful ways to get those characters into the bureacracy.

(And if warfare-by-intrigue ever does get into the base game, then building it into the chinese system earlier would be better, even if by proxy of prowess.)







Examinations

Hi, I’m Axel, or @PinkAxelotl , and I am one of the designers working on Examinations.

As previously mentioned, Merit is key to securing government office. A character’s Merit score indicates how appropriate they are as an official in Meritorious East Asian administrative government types. It represents their documented achievements and moral conduct according to Confucian ideals. An official with a high Merit Level has a higher candidate score and (if employed) a higher salary. Characters who are not yet employed as governors can attempt to increase their merit by attending examinations.
The rank of merit also directly corresponds to how high a position a character can hold.

Please consider more future use (or retroactive application) of this sort of winnowing function for broad character pool actions going forward. Especially in any future Investiture content.

Currently I'm thinking crusade beneficiaries, administrative appointments, or especially electives. My understanding is that one of the factors that can cause the game to snarl when you, say, open up a tanistry elective screen is that the 'eligible candidate list' is so broad that the CPU has to jump through hoops to pull up everyone. Even a limited winnowing function like 'has level 2 or 3 fame/devotion' could be useful in keeping the character pool (and CPU load) that much easier.





The examinations can be taken from the age of six via the Children’s Examination. You can set your children up for success by having them take the test, which increases their likelihood of attending higher level examinations. Next is the Provincial level, another local examination, represented in game as a multi-layered Decision. Successfully passing this test allows you to be considered for county-level appointments. More ambitious characters might set their sights on the prestigious higher-level examinations. The Imperial Examination is an in-game open activity hosted in the capital, it starts with the Metropolitan examination, from which the top ten entrants will move on to the exclusive Palace Examination, hosted by the Huangdi (Emperor) himself.

Question- if examinations must be held in the capital, does this create a de facto limit on how far abroad appointees can come from?

(IE, aren't candidates limited by travel distance?)

I imagine you'd use the Tournament pacing to make sure the exams actually start, but it's not uncommon to simply be too far to participate. Unless the Emperor is expected to be waiting for a long time each exam cycle- which would probably frustrate player-emperors- this seems like a limiting factor for otherwise would-be-willing candidates.

Unless there will be a code for the Chinese governor estates to all be near the capital, regardless of where the holding is?)




Apart from being generally gifted, being a good student of Confucius is important to secure a good score at the examinations.
In order to prepare, the obtaining and leveling of the Confucian Scholar trait can be achieved via studying at a university in China, or by finding a Confucian elder.

General hegemon question- will other Hegemons (like Rome) have an equivalent exam system? Or is it China-only at this time?


Also- this description of a Confucian Scholar trait sounds like a good idea for a future Investiture mechanic, such as getting your child-for-the-church a better appointment score for an equivalent religious education trait...



What can each Era change?

Each Era affects those within China in various significant ways. Aside from the usual modifiers on characters and counties, our aim is to also give each Era things that are unlocked by them, that are distinct and useful.

These things can be:
  • Additional laws and policies that can be enacted
  • New Province (Circuit) types
  • New interactions towards others in China
  • Great Projects that can change society/warfare/infrastructure significantly
  • New Casus Belli

They can also take away some things to reflect a different nature of the realm, such as:
  • Restricting certain types of Casus Belli
  • Limiting or forbidding personal Men-at-Arms

For example, in the Expansion Era, the “Grand Expansionist Command” Army Command structure law option is available, which enables larger Title Men-at-Arms armies, at the cost of a heavy burden on the vassals of China.

Disclaimer: Not all effects are shown in the screenshot; also all mechanics are not final and have not yet been balanced!

Request / Recommendation: Can you please ensure there are era-specific ways for outsiders to influence China? Especially in ways to corrupt / undercut / bring down the system?

As described, the changes are all limited to the members / participants from the 'inside' of the Chinese system. As in, a Chinese character can interact with the out world differently depending on access to casus belli, more MAA, and so on.

A flip side would be useful, especially for players playing near China who do not want to be within it. Playing a middle power playing off / against the Middle Kingdom.

Things that could change by era could include-

Chinese Princesses (i.e. the CK2 mechanic)
-In a stable era, high marriage acceptance, but low invite-acceptance to leave China
-In a unstable era, lower acceptance to outsiders, but higher invite-acceptance to leave China
-In a chaotic era, high-priority for 'invite claimant' acceptance to leave China for safety

Marriages for a non-aggression pact
-In stable era, a Minister-level marriage could provide a empire/hegemon-level NAP
-In an unstable era, only Emperor-marriage provides the NAP
-In a chaotic era, you cannot get an empire-level peace, but the border military-governor is more likely to accept / won't attack you.

Confucian Education
-In a stable era, you can can go / send a child to the capital for tutoring (with advantages)
-In an unstable era, you can only invite a tutor
-In a chaotic era, you cannot invite, but if a tutor-refugee event occurs, you can host a center of learning for the duration of the era

Raiding / Border Skirmishes
-In a stable era, only empires with normal raiding can raid
-In an unstable era, you can access a quick raid / border skirmish casus belli only when the empire is in a civil war / distracted
-In a chaotic era, unlimited casus belli access




Catalysts of Era Change

We have talked about all the different Eras now, but haven’t really told you how they would flow into each other, and how you could influence this!

Similar to Struggles from our other DLCs, the Dynastic Cycle uses Catalysts - triggered events with specific point values - to push Eras from one to another. The Dynastic Cycle usually turns relatively slowly, and Eras might last a hundred years if you balance things right.

The general flow of Era change is: Stable Era > Unstable Era > Chaotic Era > Stable Era > etc. There are some exceptions of course!

Unstable Eras can lead back to Stable Eras, if the tide is turned, but this generally speaking is not easy. Some Eras might trigger from circumstances; Conquest Eras specifically are usually triggered when a large war for the title of China is lost.

Catalysts come into play primarily in the Stable and Unstable Eras, and here are some examples from the Advancement Era towards the Instability Era.

Some Catalysts are immediate triggers for a new Era because of their weight:
  • The Hegemon loses the Mandate of Heaven - their Legitimacy is at rank zero
  • A new House inherits the Hegemony title

One-off Catalysts are things that you can cause yourself:
  • The Hegemon loses a War
  • The Imperial Capital is Raided or Besieged
  • An Imperial House member is murdered
  • A Governor embezzles from the central government

Others are more symptoms of corruption and/or incompetence:
  • The Imperial Treasury is empty
  • The Hegemon appoints a Low Merit Councillor (/Minister)
  • Failing to hold Imperial Exams

Yet others are political in nature - an opposing Movement is strong
  • Yearly Drift: The Expansion Movement has the most Movement Power

Our intent with these Catalysts is to give players more tools to directly start or stop catalysts from happening, so that even though the Eras might change slowly, inevitably, you can help things along or delay them significantly.

Note: These catalysts are still very much under development, we’re very likely to remove/add/rebalance many of them!

Related to the above, I strongly hope outsiders can influence this.

I believe it will be important for the people on the outside to have a way to hurry the system along in a desired direction- both 'up' and 'down.'

For example, take a Korea playthrough. Korea is influenced by, but not a part of, the Chinese system. It would like to relish the benefits, but not be conquered. So perhaps a Korea player wants to encourage a hyper-stable, but inwardly focused, Chinese empire that loses casus belli. Chaos could spill over the borders, after all. Or, the opposite- the current system is is stable but aggressive, but outright war is impossible due to the size disparity.

Ideally, there would be more options by era

In a Stable Era
-Most limited options for hostile actions. Slander schemes to undercut legitimacy, etc.
-Most incentive for a 'get along' on the top-level. Chinese tributary system bonuses for your own safety, even without marriage alliances.
-Can provide limited support to either the Chancellor or Censor and their movement-factions

In an Unstable Era
-More opportunistic options. May be able to make alliances / join in civil wars.
-More schemes to capitalize on / accelerate political feuds, like supporting a minister movement.
-Can sponsor peasant uprisings, trading gold / levy debuffs, knight 'donations' to start legitimacy-hurting wars
-Can side with / support the movement factionss of any sort

In a Chaotic Era
-Most opportunistic chance for expansion via 'easy' casus belli with quick capture times for if the empire is distracted.
-Opportunities to support independence revolts directly- even without an alliance
-Schemes to convince / support vassals to convert into tributaries, or tributaries to convert to independent
-Can side with / support any minister-level war or top-level claimants, especially to try and prevent a re-unification drive



Political Movements

Hi, I’m Arkadiusz, or @PDS_Arky , and I am one of the designers working on the Dynastic Cycle and China. One of the new mechanics I’ve been responsible for is the Political Movements in China.

Unlike in Byzantium, Chinese Governors can share values that transcend their personal goals. Using the Situation Participant Group feature we’ve created 4 distinct political movements in the Dynastic Cycle Situation:
  • Pro-dynasty - Characters in this group support the Emperor in everything,
  • Expansion - They want to change the Dynastic Cycle to the Expansion Era,
  • Advancement - They want to change the Dynastic Cycle to the Advancement Era,
  • Conservative - This movement seeks to resist reform, instill a moral hierarchical order, and empower scholar-official elites.

There is also an Unaligned group that doesn't have any unique mechanics and doesn't represent any values, but its members are susceptible to being persuaded to join other Movements.
...

Each movement has a Leader. A Movement Leader has access to the Emperor and can issue a unique petition via decision to further their movements goals or help fellow members. In order to become a leader, you have to prove yourself in front of other members and defeat the current leader in a political debate. As a Leader you can engage in another type of Debate in front of the Emperor to win Imperial favor, leading to your Movement becoming Empowered, granting it more powers to grow the Movement and change the Dynastic Cycle Eras.

This interests me greatly, especially if it can be done in a way for vassal-stance groups in the rest of the map.

Going from a general vassal stance opinion group to a standing vassal faction of sorts would be a great step forward, especially if vassal-stance leaders have not only advantages / interactions with the ruler, but also with their fellow vassal-followers. It would be another feather / incentive for staying a vassal rather than top-tier ruler, which is where the game tends to be more dynamic and less power-grindy.

It could also be a good way to tie into claimants, if various claimants tie themselves to certain vassal stances and thus letting vassal-stances support (but not guarantee) claimant factions. Whether this is a claimant being naturally aligned to a movement, or a movement leader trying to recruit a claimant who gives it movement power, movements can compete over royal support, and royal family members compete over the support of movement leaders.

This would go double for diarchs, if the movement / faction support can make their diarchy dreams more achievable.







And More To Come

We try to limit our dev diary size somewhat to not info-dump too much all at once, so we’ll keep it here for now… but I will post a little teaser here for more China-related mechanics that we handle in the near future:
  • Hegemonic Tributaries - Tributaries that are formed when outside rulers acknowledge the Hegemony, and in turn receive recognition, economic benefits - and more.
  • Great Projects - We did not mention the Great Wall or the Grand Canal, or other obviously Chinese great projects - but rest assured, we will get there
  • Border Warfare - We are experimenting with allowing realms to wage war on sub-vassals of big realms in certain circumstances, without immediately drawing in the top liege. This gives larger empires like the Chinese Empire more local military delegation, and also a new type of threat.
Please let us know what you think of all of these features! Many are still work-in-progress, and the more we hear from you, the better we can adjust them.

These sound interesting, but Border Warfare in particular seems like it has the greatest potential for shaking up the map back west.



Great Projects is the least interesting from what we've heard so far. It sound like another source of modifiers with limited need / utility for being brought to the rest of the map. The game's economy isn't it's most compelling part. However, if this is more process-oriented, maybe it would have use as a new way for building those unique historical buildings,

Currently great buildings are Very Expensive Buildings paid by a ruler like any other. As a result, only the player will beeline for them, since only the player plans / doesn't squander early game wealth for it. A great project system could be a way to trade 'high upfront costs' for 'Kings or Emperors commit a Great Project at lower cost, but over time,' and thus get the AI those benefits earlier. Especially if an ambitious duke wants to sponsor it, and so a vassal-player can kickstart projects.

(Great Project could also play into any future Disaster DLC system, as a way to rebuild- and thus allow indefinite disablement- of historic things. Say that an Act of God DLC brings great fires / earthquakes / disasters that do a once-in-a-century devastation. A Great Project could be a go-to rebuilding effort.)


Hegemonic Tributaries is more interesting. It will depend on what it offers, but more tributary options could absolutely open up ways to try and set up and establish dynasts abroad. It could also offer a way to re-think the currently much-maligned, and often bypassed, confederate partition.

Currently, confederate partition is something that basically everyone ignores as early as possible. Whether that's high clan harmony, tribal rampages, or administrative appointments, no one wants to deal with it- and given that the AI doesn't inherit MAA or the econ base to survive, it often doesn't. Any feudal with their salt will use feudal elective to avoid it.

Depending on how hegemonic tributaries works, it might be worth considering a confederate partition dynamic where instead of total independence, the newly created realms start in some variation of tributary / confederation to the eldest sibling. Whether that's going from a unified kingdom to a smaller kingdom and tributaries, or a confederation setup, it would be nice to embrace the partition, but with benefits (besides just renown) for the 'main loser' to go along with giving up direct overlordship.



Border Warfare, though... that could be interesting.

Not only for what it could mean for competing with blobbing realms (like Byzantium). but for what it means from the other end. If the overlord isn't involved in all defensive wars all the time, this in turn opens up the defensive wars that vassal could get involved into. 'Why doesn't my vassal defend themself when they stand to lose war' has been a longstanding complaint.

It also opens up the scope of casus belli for more non-territorial wars. The less that a war requires going to war with the top-level liege, the more potential scope there is for wars between feuding lords of different realms. IIRC, currently artifact wars require declaring war on the top-level liege. I don't remember if that applies to subordinate vassals and, say, excommunication or rescue family member casus belli, but the easier it is to have a rivalry war with a duke of another realm without conquering his liege first...

Well, I'd still like rivalry/humiliation wars to return. Or things like debt-collecting wars. And so on- I personally believe an issue in CK3's war system is a lack of non-territorial war casus belli that are easily accessible. Most non-territorial casus belli are hidden requirements, making territorial casus belli easier to get.

This will require bounding, of course. Maybe things like a 2-or-more rank difference to ignore issues. (So a Emperor may not be alerted if a duke attacks another duke, but would be involved if the duke's King attacked the emperor.) Or certain vassal contracts. (March-contracts leaning towards ruler non-involvement.) And possibly influence from the other direction, such as the attack offering/invoking hooks / gold / etc. to the Emperor to turn a blind eye.

It's hard to say more without knowing what the team is thinking of, but the more the scope of war is taken away from 'always at war with the top-level liege',




Our next Dev Diary will be about Japan, its territories, and various mechanics. See you all next time, and 谢啦, 祝你愉快! (Thank you, I wish you happiness!)
/Joror

Looking forward to it!
 
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This is all really interesting stuff - I admit I was kinda worried when I saw that the China expansion was going to be bundled in with mechanics from all of the rest of Asia, as I thought that'd be spreading efforts too thin to really focus on the complexities of China itself but while balance might be wonky at first the baseline seems very interesting and worth expanding.

Couple of questions though.

- What happens to a family estate when the realm becomes chaotic? When a realm splinters depending on how things are set up I could see a lot of things going down. If you're holding a governorship, ending up with the new top liege of your title makes sense. But what about the edge cases? In particular:

- What happens to you if you were an imperial minister when the empire goes chaotic? Do you just revert to being an unemployed landless family in service of whoever holds the title your family estate is geographically located, or will you be able to try to spend influence and wealth to wrest control of kingdom titles for yourself, or you become a landless adventurer, or...what?

- Similarly, what happens if you happened to not be employed and were just relaxing in your estate when the realm splinters? Do you have the option of picking which new realm to back and moving your estate there? Or are you automatically employed by the new realm in your estate?

- And on that note, what happens if you have a large house spread throughout China geographically? Does your family automatically get splintered between different realms? Will characters have an option to choose whether to stay in their post, pledge allegiance to their de jure top liege, or resign and join their family instead, or even defect to pledge allegiance to their family if their family has a higher tier landed title? Given the importance of family ties in China this seems like an interesting space for realm divide shakeups, though it'd also make the breakup VERY confusing.

- During the Chaotic cycle, will it be possible to defect from one realm to another? Poaching talented officials and encouraging surrenders (especially of captured officers and officials!) were a classic part of any Chinese period of division. Will that be modeled here as well?

- Will the location of your estate have any particular effect, and will the empire be able to dictate laws on whether or not officials can serve in their hometowns? Different dynasties had different approaches to this, some preferring to assign officials away from their hometowns to prevent hometown loyalties and entanglements from complicating governance and loyalties, while others preferred to assign officials at home to take best advantage of their local connections for governance. Is that going to be modeled?

- It's a minor thing, but how will you be referring to Chinese Houses? Like, I've usually found Chinese extended family arrangements translated as "clans" but I can understand if that's a bit confusing with the Islamic clan-government style in the game as well.

- Will the effects of Confucian filial piety traditions be reflected in the level of control a patriarch can have over his family? I imagine that this would be more of a cultural tenet than anything to do with the government exactly but it does feel like a clan patriarch should be able to exert quite a lot of control over his clan members in the Chinese tradition - certainly on a political scale if the realm shatters, in which case family ties are often going to be viewed as the safest and most important baseline to retain loyalty to.
 
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A lot here looks good, but it's a little disappointing that the ministers tasks look like they're exactly the same as the usual tasks. Nomads really mixed things up there and it feels very different.

Border Warfare - We are experimenting with allowing realms to wage war on sub-vassals of big realms in certain circumstances, without immediately drawing in the top liege. This gives larger empires like the Chinese Empire more local military delegation, and also a new type of threat.
This is what honestly made me the most excited. I really hope you do this and apply it to other large realms like mentioned. It would make all the vassal contracts and vassal directives for making your vassals invest in defenses and military actually useful. Right now it just makes them stronger for when they want to rebel. A reason to buff your borders is severely lacking in the current system.

I'd definitely apply it to all empires, though some kingdoms are massive and would be fun to have too. Maybe have it based on the rank of the attacker and defender. So in a kingdom, if a foreign count attacks for a county in your own realm that you don't have as part of your domain then you as the liege wouldn't get pulled into the war. A king taking your realm apart county by county feels too easy and unrealistic. A king should get pulled into any duchy wars, but I think in an empire a duchy would be fair game to any duke or below.
 
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How will merits earning work in military, since it was dependent on military achievements?

Will you allow our characters to participate in battles as knights or will you make some events regarding flanking and taking enemy commander heads?

Please allow us to use prowess to smash through battlefields and earn merit that way.
 
We're still working on where to place this modifier (which allows for more elderly rule more reliably, which is very Imperial Chinese) - it is a bit 'off' in its current location. :)
It might move to another place such as: the government type / a law (health policies) / a cultural trait / an innovation.
Thanks for the response! I get the intent, but IMHO it may miss the crux of the matter. The China, the South Asia, and the like, may be gerontocratic - but I don't think making people live longer is the proper way to represent this. Instead, why not make an age (or experience, as e.g. indicated by the number of the taken lifestyle perks) a stronger positive modifier counting towards merit? after all, gerontocracy is about making the older people go into power - and not about making the people in power live longer. (Then, CK3 already makes the older characters better, because of their lifestyle - and Meritocracy would probably already favour them.)

Otherwise, I think that additional lifespan may lead to an army of pseudo-Immortals from Kunlun. I mean: I imagine that Chinese cultures will have a cultural traditions that make Learning lifestyle more prevalent?, and that would make Medicine lifestyle more prevalent as well. Whole of Body characters with +10 additional life experience may stretch the limits of believability ;)
 
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Well, it was somewhat similar to English shires when they were first established. While shires made England theoretically administrative, land-and-title-holding nobles meant that both an administrative and feudal system in place, although in reality the feudal system was superior until the 15 century. While the majority of China does not have land owning nobles during this period, that was not true for the regions of ethnic minorites, especially Yunnan, and the two systems of governance were often in conflict with each other.
Yes thats true , but there are only one administrating system exist , we cant imagine one offical that sent from the imperial court start to lead a warfare which is a reble behvavior while all his family living in capital . Local nobles may have the real power but this can be display in game as low control or local reble not a non administrative vassals.
 
Celestial Admin will see more title changing; were also experimenting with a limited form of retirement - a retirement age law (with different age options). This makes it easier to request a "forced retirement" of that 80-year old governor if you need to.
Oh, thank you! "Why won't you just... lie down and take a long nap?" is something I've been catching myself saying a lot when playing Admin, and fr, I'm starting to scare myself
 
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