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Dev Diary #176 - Southeast Asia

Hello and welcome! I am @Trin Tragula, one of the design leads at Studio Black. In this third regional feature diary for All Under Heaven, we will be covering Southeast Asia, with a special focus on the new Mandala and Wanua government types and how we will use them to highlight the unique aspects of the region itself. We will also cover the new Great Project feature, as well as how we deal with Tributaries in this expansion; while tributaries were introduced in Khans of the Steppe, they don’t work in quite the same way for these sedentary states.



The Scene: Southeast Asia in the Middle Ages

In our timeline, this region was quite different compared to China in the north. It's extremely diverse, with a wide range of faiths and cultures within it.

image_01.png

[Screenshot of Southeast Asia in the 867 start]

In large parts, Southeast Asia is home to a wide range of tribal polities. These are spread over a geographic area that is just as varied, featuring deep river valleys, jungles, and high mountain ranges. In such a place, waterways (seas as well as rivers) are what links peoples to each other, but despite skilled boat builders and sailors, the region presents many challenges in keeping a larger state together.

Realms in this region have, up until recently, tended to be much more transitory in nature than China, Europe, or even India. The norm here is a looser network of city-states bound together by personal loyalties to popular and powerful rulers; these then break apart after the death of the personality that brought them together.

image_02.png

[Screenshot of Borobudur]

In the Dharmic faiths of India (Buddhism and Hinduism), rulers have found the authority and unifying ideology needed to unite larger realms. They are still centered around great leaders, but with Brahman priests as their allies, they aspire to become living gods: Devarajas.

The Devaraja concept is built upon the Indian idea of an ideal ruler, someone who rules with the gods' favor. In Southeast Asia, this morphs into the idea that a popular king is actually a god personified himself. Religious ritual and kingship blend in enormous temple cities, where subjects and remote tributaries alike all come together to fund and construct great public works. Monuments can be both religious and expressions of royal power, as giant statues of Dharmic gods carry the face of the very ruler walking among his subjects. The capital temple complex becomes the center of a Mandala, with subservient villages, cities, and tributary kings surrounding it.

Nonetheless, even the Devaraja realms have a fleeting element. Smaller states may pay tribute to the god-king, but after one dies or a more persuasive one makes themselves known, they can reconsider their allegiance; on the periphery of the Mandala realm, loyalties change quickly.

Southeast Asia is, as mentioned, a diverse region. Alongside the states like the ones I have described here, there is also the Viet and the Kingdom of Nanzhao (later Dali) that operate quite differently. We covered these in a previous dev diary by @PDX_Chop so we will not talk about those again today, but this introduction would be incomplete without mentioning them.

I will now hand over to @Distantaziq, who will discuss how we have endeavored to portray the region. They’ll detail the mechanics we’ve developed to represent the Mandala realms and the surrounding non-Dharmic tribal realms in All Under Heaven.



Mandala - the Devaraja Realm

Greetings! I'm Distantaziq, one of the designers working on All Under Heaven!

Today, we will be exploring the God-Kings and Queens of Southeast Asia -- Mandala! Historically, these governments heavily rely on religion and faith, revolving around the one Mandala ruler who stepped up with the claim to be a divine being.

image_03.png

[Map of the Kingdom of Angkor in 1066 with tributaries and vassals]

From a balancing perspective, the design intent with Mandalas is to present the player with a new challenge. As we will discuss below, Mandalas start out weaker, especially compared to being consistently powerful Feudal or Clan government rulers of comparable size. However, if you overcome the initial difficulties, you work over generations to reach unseen heights of power – as long as you take care not to lose your divinity, and prepare your heir accordingly…

Godmode?

As mentioned, Mandala revolves around faith, and in line with this, Piety will be the Mandala’s main resource.

Building your first Mandala Capital Temple Complex? Use (mainly) Piety.
Designating your divine heir? Use Piety.
Convincing your immediate surroundings that you indeed are a divine being that they should devote their life and kingdoms to? …well. Accumulate Piety.

And Piety levels!

image_04.png

[The tooltip for Level of Devotion, featuring additional Piety levels]

The Mandala government, being so thoroughly intertwined with faith, religion, and divinity, has unique access to three additional Levels of Devotion: Divine, Demigod and Godlike.

Now, how do you become Godlike, you might ask? Well, it's simple: It is divinity proven over generations.

image_05.png

[A truly Godlike Ruler of Angkor]

Or more practically put: if your character reaches one of the new Levels of Devotion, your successor gains a buff that allows them to progress to the next Level of Devotion, and so on. This can continue until you establish a lineage of godlike characters.

Oh, and make sure not to die the wrong way in relation to your Aspect. Did you ever hear about that Serenity-Aspect God king who died from a local epidemic? No? I didn't think so.

image_06.png

[9 levels of devotion in a grid, ranking from Sinner to Godlike]

And yes, we do need to showcase some truly decadent art icon renders for this specific feature!

A Matter of Temples

So, what more might a mighty God-King Devaraja possibly need in this world, you might ask? Well, how about temples?

In All Under Heaven, we’re introducing an additional holding type: the Temple Citadel. This will be the main holding for Mandala rulers, and will also be valid as a capital for most other landed governments (alongside the Castle Holding) in order to ensure it remains viable if the area is conquered by a non-Mandala ruler.

The Temple Citadel of your capital is the main location for your Capital Temple Complex; a temple with additional defences and a fierce focus on Levels of Devotion, and the foundation for any self-respecting God-King. These Great Buildings are built using the new Great Projects feature, which are collaborative efforts between yourself and your subjects. More on them in a future dev diary!

The resulting Great Building, or Capital Temple Complex, supports your realm in expanding your domain limit and vassal limit within your Mandala realm, and by increasing your Radiance as a God-King (your ability to attract tributaries and vassals).

image_07.png

[The building breakdown for the Capital Temple Complex Great Building, complete with 5 levels]

Of course, only a Mandala may enjoy the effects of such a building. Should you stop being a Mandala or if the building should come under control of a feudal or tribal heathen, it won’t have much use other than possibly as a tourist attraction.

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[One of the effects of completing the base tier Capital Temple Complex Great Project]

Did you just start off as a new Mandala and didn't get the Temple Citadel memo? Well, no Temple Citadel, no problem!

What's Your Aspect?

Before even starting the construction of a Capital Temple Complex, the Mandala ruler needs to pick one of four Mandala Aspects. Loosely based on the Hindu god aspects, these Aspects should heavily impact the way you choose to approach your Mandala playthrough.
  • Creation
    • Unlocks bonuses to chaining construction and gains piety from child rearing
    • Should primarily pass on through peaceful means
  • Serenity
    • Unlocks bonuses to Befriending, as well as including Allies in the Request Contribution interaction
    • Should primarily pass on through peaceful means
  • Destruction
    • Unlocks additional Casus Belli and bonuses to Military Power
    • May also pass on through combat or certain violent deaths
  • Trickery
    • Unlocks additional schemes like Disbelieve Mandala and provided bonuses to certain Schemes (like using Coerce Tributary against someone of a higher tier)
    • May also pass on through being murdered

As one may note in the breakdown, as well as mentioned in a previous paragraph, you don't just get to die in any way to have your heir be able to level up to the next level of devotion -- a God of Destruction may die on the battlefield and have their existence be canonized, but a God of Trickery dying from being a drunkard? Maybe not so venerable.

Each of the Aspects also come with their own set of requirements in order to achieve the next level of the aspect. This system, together with your Level of Devotion and Capital Temple Complex Tier feeds into…

Mandala Radiance

Multiple rulers in Southeast Asia claim to be the next Devaraja, asserting their own divinity? Well, how impressive is your Temple Complex?
Mandala Radiance, which indicates your attractiveness and helps you gauge your competition, is unlocked as soon as you have orchestrated the construction of your first tier Temple Complex.

image_09.png

[Work in Progress mapmode for Mandala, denoting who might accept a Tributarization offer]

This Radiance should heavily impact who the minor rulers of the area should want to pledge themselves to. They might even leave their current Suzerain if that ruler is perceived as impious to join a more attractive Devaraja.

I Decree…

Compared to Aspects, Decrees offer a more flexible way of ruling your realm. So, what do you decree, oh Divine Ruler?

image_10.png

[Image of the Mandala Laws window, depicting the Decrees]

Choose your Decree to primarily affect the current focus of your devotees (or subjects, however you want to call them). Is your current focus Prosperity, Expansion, or Reverence right now? What do you aim to do next?


Tributary Status

A Mandala's main subject will be the tributary. With faith being more relevant than cemented relations via vassalization, this system is intended to give a fairly loose realm setup.

Mandalas hold less land directly, instead relying mainly on their tributaries. While vassals still exist in a Mandala realm, they are more limited here than in other governments. You can also integrate more tributaries as vassals as you expand your Capital Temple Complex. A tributary is unable to engage in factions, has less opinions about what you get up to, and can engage in Tribute Missions to their Devaraja. On the other hand, they also might break away if you turn out not to be as divine as you say or if you treat them badly.

image_11.png

[A grossly overstepped domain limit]

All of this is reflected in lower domain as well as vassal limit, and more tributaries on game start.

War is Not the Answer?

The emphasis in the Mandala realms is offering alternatives to simply going to war to claim new tributaries or expand your realm and divinity. Subjugation wars, for instance, will generate regular Tributaries instead of piety-granting Mandala Tributaries unless you go heavily into the Destruction Aspect.

One of these alternatives-to-war is the new scheme Coerce Tributary, which is one of the cornerstones for Mandala play. It is a Political Scheme that looks at your chosen Mandala Aspect and associated skill, then allows you to attempt coercing another ruler to become your Tributary -- that you're the divine ruler they've been waiting for.

image_12.png

[The Mandala Ruler is anticipating the outcome of the successful Coerce Tributary scheme - events are still Work in Progress!]

Beware though; if the Tributary you're chatting up is already a Tributary, then their current Suzerain might incentivize them to stay, or you might even have to fight in order to defend that Tributary as they break away and join your fold.

image_13.png

[The Suzerain of the targeted Tributary gets the option to intervene in the Coerce Tributary scheme - events are still Work in Progress!]

Or you don't help them, which severs their Tributary status and burns your bridge with that particular Tributary.

image_14.png

[The target of Coerce Tributary was incentivized to stick around, costing the Suzerain a bunch of resources - events are still Work in Progress!]

Regardless, you may have gained a new Tributary, but you definitely meddled with their Suzerain's (presumably a competing Mandala ruler) plans.



Maritime Southeast Asia

The islands are a virtual petri dish of faiths and cultures. We have very few sources of documentation from the time before larger faiths and realms significantly influenced the cultures and beliefs of the islanders.

image_15.png

[Screenshot of Maritime South East Asia in 1066]

In light of this, we have aimed to add the most prominent ones.

image_16.png

[Screenshots of the Philippines in 1066]

Including small bits of Papua, the lion's share of the maritime Southeast Asian archipelago is featured on the map.

Wanua

This is a heavily sea-based government form, which historically (as mentioned) came under the subject of larger realms and religions. They are still a tribal government type, however, and as such, live under its constraints. If you want to progress further and become more advanced in terms of innovations and development, then you will want to eventually adopt a different style of government.

As the Wanuas are in the islands of Southeast Asia, a couple of Mandala upstart kingdoms are already available (some which later morphed into more powerful historical kingdoms like Srivijaya or Majapahit after our end date). However, if one desires to embark on the journey from Wanua to a powerful Mandala God-King, then that is entirely possible.

As long as you either have adopted a Dharmic faith (or worked hard enough to reform your own faith), it is but a simple button press away, granting you access to islands that are ripe for the picking…

image_17.png

[A screenshot of the Adopt Mandala Rule Decision for the Wanua Rulers]

In addition to the cultural flavor, Wanua will be able to traverse the sea and raid, naturally. We are also looking into more ways of making the Wanua feel special and fun to play; for example, being more dependent on Legitimacy (which they would receive from being Mandala Tributaries).



Great Projects

Another addition with All Under Heaven is the Great Projects feature! This allows several rulers to come together and fund various parts of projects that would be very expensive or take ages to fund individually.

image_18.png


The Mandala Great Project

For Mandala, the Capital Temple Complex is such a project; a physical manifestation of your spiritual might where your followers may come to pay tribute or simply worship you. The temple comes in 5 tiers, and once you have completed the first tier you have officially started your path towards godhood (should you manage to defend it, of course).

Mandatory Contributions

Each tier requires a specific set of contributions that you or any of your subjects may fund; depending on who funds it, that specific ruler gains the spoils of such a benevolent act, as well as the appreciation of the founder (in this case you).

image_19.png

[Work In Progress Great Project window featuring the Contributions of a Mandala Capital Upgrade]

Optional Contributions

There are also optional contributions, for those who absolutely must have that golden dome, that yield additional rewards for the contributor.

Request Contribution

If you are just starting off on your Mandala journey or your subjects for one reason or the other needs an additional nudge in order to actually contribute those archways to your project, there's also the Request Contribution button.
Inside, you may be able to incentivize their request via hooks, bribes, forcing them with your oppressive pious spirit - whatever might convince them to make the right call.

Once you have completed the final tier -- an achievement likely spanning generations -- you will have proven yourself an established Devaraja ruler and will receive huge bonuses to your Mandala way of life.

Chinese Great Projects​

In China, the great projects are more focused on large-scale infrastructure and other improvements that require several contributors; examples include building sections of the Great Wall or improving the Grand Canals.

These projects allow the Emperor to either contribute significantly on his own, displaying his might and benevolence as the Son of Heaven, or they present an opportunity for ambitious subjects vying for the imperial graces…

image_20.png


Another opportunity for benevolent actions that improve your own standing is provided by the Great Projects that spawn from Natural Disasters. While Natural Disasters may spawn in geographically turbulent areas all over the map, only those in China will affect the Dynastic Cycle and potentially impact the Emperor’s standing, depending on how they deal with it. More on Natural Disasters and their implications for the Dynastic Cycle will be covered in a future Dev Diary.

Needless to say, this feature opens up significant opportunities for modding and new additions; not only grand buildings, but great feats of humanity which can be showcased for generations to come!



Tribute Missions

Both Mandala and Hegemonic tributaries may go on Tribute Missions to their Suzerain, primarily to strengthen their own Legitimacy, but also to partake in the wealth and grandeur typically associated with their Suzerain.

Mandala Tribute Missions

Historically, the act of paying tribute was often both a matter for states and a very direct personal action, with one ruler acknowledging another as their better and bringing them a gift to prove this. The fact that one party considers the other their suzerain does not mean that there cannot be reciprocity however; in return for paying tribute, the tributary might gain benefits at home (they appear as a more rightful King due to being acknowledged by a more powerful Suzerain) or even receive gifts to bring back home (essentially a form of trade).

Since the passive payment of a resource over time does not quite cover the interpersonal aspects of a relationship like this, we have added what we call Tribute Missions to be used for tributaries of the more voluntary types that you see in East Asia. To preserve these relationships, at least one such tribute needs to be undertaken per Suzerain's lifetime.

The Pay Tribute missions start off with a Decision which allows you to determine what tribute you want to bring, and types vary depending on the Suzerain. For example, if they utilize Eunuchs (like the Chinese Admin government) you may gift a Eunuch. If they have concubines (again, like the Chinese Admin government) you may gift a concubine. Standard tributes of Gold or Herd (if you're a Nomad tributary) are always available.

image_21.png

[Image of the Select Tribute character interaction for a Hegemonic Tributary]

Once you’ve decided what kind of tribute you’re offering, you set off on a journey towards your Suzerain's capital! Upon arrival, you are greeted by the Suzerain (if they have a Royal Court, you are received at the Court), where you exchange gifts. First, the Suzerain receives your gift, and you may attempt to influence what the reward will be - or you leave it up to the discretion of the Suzerain.

Similar to the type of tribute being offered, the type of reward the Suzerain may choose between vary depending on if you're a Mandala or the Emperor - a handful of options might be to:
  • Award them with additional Trade Posts that increases the development of the Tributary's capital
  • Award them with an artifact for them to bring back and display to their people
  • Award them with a monk, to mend their heathen ways (for Mandalas to give to their tribal tributaries who are still unreformed)

You start traveling back home once you’ve received your reward, eager to showcase the gift and enjoy the legitimacy you received from your tribute. Now I will hand the word over to @lachek, who implemented the Hegemonic / Celestial Tributary types.

Hegemonic Tribute Missions

Hello again! @lachek here, and I'm excited to once more discuss Tributaries with you! As mentioned above, tributaries were first introduced into Crusader Kings III to support nomadic gameplay with Khans of the Steppe, where they modeled the unique subject-overlord relationship between a tributary and their suzerain. On the vast expanse of Northern Asia, nomadic tributary relationships were mostly held together through military domination, either implied or by actual display of force. Nomadic rulers can demand that neighboring realms fall in line under them by building up a sizable horde, or simply go out and enforce it through warfare. Through a cascade of such relationships, enormous swathes of the plains can be held together under a single suzerain. However, they can collapse just as quickly due to migratory patterns or a foreign conqueror cutting off a key part of the chain.

We also implemented a Subjugated Tributary type available outside the steppe to represent rulers dominated by more powerful neighbors and made to pay tax to their overlord.

However, none of those types adequately represent how tributary relationships functioned in either Southeast Asia or China. Therefore, we are introducing both Mandala tributaries and the Hegemonic/Celestial types (more on the distinction later), where the relationship is more contingent on one-sided respect and a gift economy.

Celestial Tributaries

These are realms within China's sphere of influence that recognize the Emperor as the Son of Heaven and pay him a great deal of personal respect (not to speak of material wealth). In return, they are granted recognition and sovereignty by China. Unlike tributaries on the steppe, this is not primarily a military arrangement but rather a one-sided show of deference, ultimately serving both parties in the end.

This relationship can be established by either party through character interaction, but is typically initiated by the prospective tributary themselves. Once established, the tributary has few immediate obligations: a little bit of Prestige and perhaps some Gold, in exchange for which some of China's Legitimacy is conferred upon them. It's usually a beneficial arrangement for both parties, especially since any taxes paid by the tributary goes directly into the Emperor's personal coffers rather than into the treasury. This makes it one of the few sources of direct income the Emperor has available for his own discretionary projects. Over time, the Emperor may decide to impose further standing obligations on some of their tributaries. Any increase in taxation or prestige transfer also comes with closer ties to China, however, thereby increasing legitimacy for the subject.

However, Celestial Tributaries are also expected to Kowtow to the Son of Heaven on a regular basis, bringing immense riches and gifts with them to reaffirm their deference and respect. This is fundamentally the same kind of Tribute Mission as in Mandala realms, with a few modifications. Unlike in Mandala realms, the Chinese Emperor always has some minimum expectation regarding the size of tribute, depending on the esteem in which the tributary is already held. This is tracked by a metric we call Imperial Grace, which serves several purposes:

  • It acts as a timer on how frequently you are expected to pay tribute; if you're only able to bring the bare necessities and wait until the last moment to reaffirm your respect, the Emperor might start to demand more frequent visits. Highly successful missions give you a longer grace period until your presence is once again expected.
  • It gives you an opportunity to adjust your relationship depending on what kind of tributary you want to be. Do you pay only nominal respect when absolutely required, just so China will overlook you when assessing their borders? Or are you a devoted subject looking for a closer relationship?
  • The decay rate of Imperial Grace increases during unstable periods of the Dynastic Cycle, reflecting the uncertainty of these times. Will you contribute to sustaining the ruling dynasty of China's legitimacy during troubles times, or seize on this moment to break the agreement and try to claim a piece of the pie for yourself?
  • As a Celestial Tributary you can quite readily adjust your own tributary contract's obligations, but changing it in your favor costs an amount of Imperial Grace.

Finally, at very high levels of Imperial Grace, the Emperor might decide to make China's relationship with its subject more permanent through the granting of a Seal of Investiture. This is an enduring artifact (regalia type, which can be reforged into a court artifact if you wish) that gives access to special privileges not usually available to subjects of China.

Trade Access: This privilege grants the tributary access to the domestic markets of the Chinese capital, resulting in a gradual closing of the development gap between the two realms' capital provinces. A low-development tributary enjoying this privilege could potentially propel itself to wealth and power compared to their less privileged neighbors within a few generations.

Family Access: This privilege negates the usual high acceptance maluses for marrying into the Chinese imperial dynasty, and even grants a small bonus to such dynastic intermingling.

Palace Access: This privilege lets the tributary's representatives roam the palace grounds, rubbing shoulders with ministers, governors, and sages in the seat of power. Tributaries with this privilege become active participants in the Dynastic Cycle and can join political movements to shape the future of China.

Once you have gained a Seal of Investiture, these become available as new contract privileges that you can activate in exchange for a one-time cost of Imperial Grace. This doesn't make the tribute missions redundant, however. The size of the bonuses you get from these scales with the degree of Imperial Grace you currently possess, so sustained tribute will only make your relationship with China more powerful.

It is important to note that a Celestial Tributary contract is a formal agreement between a realm and the Chinese Emperor. The contract is inherited upon death of either the tributary or the suzerain, but if the Hegemony title is lost then the contract will break -- even if another claimant dynasty later restores it. As long as the dynastic line is unbroken, however, accumulated Imperial Grace and the privileges that the contract yields can be maintained for centuries.

You may have noted I’ve made a distinction between Hegemonic and Celestial Tributaries above. A Celestial Tributary is a type of Hegemonic Tributary, specific to China. However, other hegemony titles (e.g. India or restored Rome) can also maintain Hegemonic Tributaries that share many similarities with Celestial ones. Instead of Imperial Grace these contracts have Subject Standing. They do not use the Seal of Investiture mechanic with its tie-ins to China-specific mechanics like difficult dynastic intermarriage or the Dynastic Cycle situation, but most other aspects of the contract work in similar ways with the same dynamics. This allows Hegemony-tier titles to use the tributary mechanic not only to expand their own de facto tracts of land, but also to accept recognition and deference from select surrounding realms they find useful to their larger strategy.

Moddability

I'll conclude this with a final note to modders. The Hegemonic/Celestial variants of tributary types now marks five distinct types I've implemented in Crusader Kings III (with Mandala tributaries being a sixth variant in All Under Heaven's release). I'm continually amazed at how flexible this system truly is in allowing you to model different types of relationships between realms that look nothing like a feudal liege/vassal system.

Anything from simple non-aggression between two specific rulers to long-standing extractive domination is possible, with the one caveat that it must always have an implied power imbalance. With the addition of Subject Standing, which tracks relationship strength over time and can theoretically be applied to any subject contract (including your typical vassal contracts, if so desired), there's a lot of fertile ground to represent entirely novel types in your own mods, be they focused on more granular historical accuracy or total conversions. So go wild!

And here we are handing the microphone back to @Trin Tragula, who will have another look at the map.



Map Corner

As we did last time, we will conclude with a short overview of the map area relevant to this diary. Southeast Asia looks rather different in 867, 1066, and 1178, so for this I will be using a mix. If you are curious about anything in particular that I have not shown off feel free to ask us in the comments.
Like everything else shown in this diary, this is a work in progress, but we would love to hear your feedback on the things we’ve covered so far.

image_22.png

[Faiths 867]

As was mentioned in the introduction, Southeast Asia has quite a complex mix of faiths and religions. We have tried to represent a reasonable amount of this variety, while also generalizing to avoid having overly small micro-faiths at the start.

Already by 867, Hinduism and Buddhism in various forms are dominant in large parts of this map, but older indigenous faiths are also present both on the mainland and the islands.

image_23.png


When it comes to cultures, the region is even more diverse in many ways. Notably, the Tai peoples are still found mostly in its northern parts. Historically, offshoots from this group would come to be politically dominant in many parts of the mainland, from modern Laos and Thailand, to Assam in northern India (the area labeled “Kamrupi” on this map).

Striking a balance between having too many or too few cultures from a gameplay point of view is never easy, but in this part of the world it is perhaps particularly hard. What we show here is both more simplified and more balkanized than we usually aim for.

image_24.png


This is a screenshot of the political situation in 1066, with the Song empire looming over the region in the north. The Srivijaya Empire (which was alive and well in the initial screenshot at the beginning of this diary) has been shattered by a relatively recent Chola invasion from India.

image_25.png


A quick overview of the Duchy mapmode. Many of these are not yet created on game start, as small realms prevail in Southeast Asia. Where other regions have a number of powerful dukes under their Kings, this region often sees duchies divided up between individual tributaries instead.

image_26.png

[De jure kingdoms in 867.]

image_27.png


Last but not least, these are our de jure empires for the region! Nusantara may look big, but in terms of counties, it is not actually as enormous as it might seem. Not all parts of these islands are places with established states (i.e., counties) and the inland can often be impassable in places like Borneo or Papua.



That was all we had this time! This diary is also the last one before our summer break, but dev diaries will resume in early August. Until then we will of course still be attentive to the feedback you have provided to our diaries so far (including this one).
 
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Also, would you guys please consider adding a way for the Japanese Tenno to permanently reassert himself after the rise of the Soryo and Shoguns, even if it's difficult and not likely to succeed, like the historical attempted Kenmu Restoration? Just seems a bit disappointing that the only way for the Emperor to wield power is temporarily as the Kanpaku.
The Emperor was already confirmed to have an option not to abdicate – and nothing says that the Imperial line cannot stay in power this way. In fact, they almost certainly will have much easier time holding into power than gaining it, given that Kampaku succession rules favour families of prior kampakus.

The usual succession rules just mean that the others can try to dominate the Imperial court in the future, and not that the period of imperial rule has to be temporary.
 
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Strangely you made Yongchang de jure Pagan. From the name you may knew it's a more sinicized region and always have a closer connection with Dali and Kunming. When it comes to people living there, they are identified as Dai people in 13th century, even making them de jure Dvaravati feels more reasonable.
 
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Tiwi Islands (merged into one) and the Cobourg Peninsula (seemingly a sole remnant of a mysterious sunken continent known in our timeline as Australia)


I'm aware the terms are more similar in Sanskrit but in game they should probably follow the standard modern spelling in order not to create confusion. Chinese names use modern Mandarin instead of Middle Chinese so the priestly caste should be called Brahmins.


Yeah, we really need the possibility to subjugate realms that "in theory" are of a higher rank. If Hegemonies can only be made tributaries of other Hegemonies then China will have it much easier in game than it had in real world.
Thankyou for your answer.

Will Tiwi Island and the Coburg Peninsula be playable?

It would be awesome if they were. It's rare to see Aboriginal Australia in video games.
 
Will Tiwi Island and the Coburg Peninsula be playable?

It would be awesome if they were. It's rare to see Aboriginal Australia in video games.
They appear to be wastelands as of now.
 
Also, they briefly mentioned it, but it's worth noting that many Southeast Asian polities saw tribute as a trade relationship. They weren't doing it to be seen as legitimate, but for every 100gold worth of gifts you sent to China, China would have to send 200gold worth back - being the senior partner in the relationship meant that they had to offer things which were more valuable in return. It got to a point where Chinese emperors would say "hey we know you're a good vassal, now please stop sending tribute."

This stereotype has been a backward view for many years, especially after examining the list of tribute gifts exchanged by Chinese dynasties in East Asia and Southeast Asia (mainly based on Ming Dynasty records, only because Ming Dynasty records are more detailed).

Firstly, it is necessary to clarify a clearly erroneous viewpoint: tribute countries (rather than Chinese dynasties) always hope to frequently come to pay tribute, because tribute is a way to obtain goods directly from China at a lower cost (rather than indirectly obtaining goods through Chinese or other merchants, such as silk, porcelain, tea, etc.), and obtaining goods is the main source of profit for tribute countries, rather than the gold and silver rewards given by the emperor (in fact, the emperor only rewards a small amount of copper coins).

Regarding the issue of Chinese goods, in fact, this is not a reward from the emperor, but rather a situation where tribute teams are allowed to freely trade goods within China, and the prices of silk, porcelain, tea and other goods in China are much lower than outside China, resulting in a win-win situation to some extent. The tribute country obtained rare Chinese goods by approaching the cost price of the place of origin, which can generate huge profits for both domestic use and resale. In fact, the place of origin of Chinese goods sold these goods at a higher price than the local price, resulting in more profits compared to ordinary trade. Only merchants trading in China and other regions suffered losses.

China's gift-return generally consists of several aspects: symbolic copper coins (rather than gold and silver), objects given by the emperor to the monarchs of tribute countries for use (to show the emperor's importance, usually jade or gold and silver objects), and more importantly, Chinese commodity trade qualifications (such as silk, porcelain, and tea, which is why tribute is usually considered to have trade attributes). In the Ming Dynasty, even the returned copper coins were replaced by paper currency 大明宝钞, and the emperor would forcibly claim that these paper currency had the value stated on paper (however, in fact, they were worthless waste paper due to inflation).

Paper currency had already appeared in the Song Dynasty, so it is uncertain whether the Song Dynasty would also do the same. However, due to the long-term lack of heavy metal mines (such as copper mines) in Chinese dynasties, it is difficult to consider it reasonable to reward tribute countries with a large amount of precious metals, especially since most of China's tribute countries have heavy metal mines (especially Japan, which has famous copper and silver resources). Compared to precious metal rewards, Chinese luxury goods are more valuable rewards for those tribute countries.
QQ20250626-225653.png

paper currency of Ming Dynasty 大明宝钞

QQ20250626-225920.png

paper currency of Song Dynasty 宋朝 交子

For Korea, the emperors of the Yuan and Ming dynasties even demanded a large number of horses as tribute (even though Korea produced very few horses, which was a form of exploitation by the emperor of the tribute country), which had a huge impact on Korea's national strength. However, due to the importance of luxury goods such as silk and porcelain trade, Korea remained enthusiastic about tribute.

Another example is the Japanese tribute notes during the reign of Emperor Yingzong of Ming Dynasty, which recorded 9,483 Japanese swords as tribute, each valued at 6 guan 贯 copper coins (i.e. 6,000 copper coins), but denominated in paper currency. However, the 6 guan paper currency was actually only worth 30 copper coins in the market, which was a huge loss for Japan. Nevertheless, the Chinese goods purchased by the Japanese tribute team during the tribute period brought them profits of over 90,000 guan copper coins (i.e. 90,000,000 copper coins) upon their return to Japan. (The information comes from the records of Emperor Yingzong of Ming Dynasty 明英宗实录)

Many stereotypes tend to overestimate the value of rebates in tribute to the emperor, without considering that the main item in rebates is artifacts rather than currency. They consider Chinese goods purchased by tribute groups as gifts from the emperor, and often value these goods outside of China, ignoring that these goods are not related to the emperor himself and that China, as the largest producer, only needs to calculate cost prices.

In addition, another legal provision also briefly proves that tribute is not unprofitable.
According to the laws of the Ming Dynasty 大明律, if tribute vessels that have not been inspected and confirmed by the government engage in private trade, all relevant personnel will be sent to the military front line (such as Mongolia) as soldiers.

Price conversion of various commodities in Ming Dynasty tribute, pictures from the history of Chinese coastal defense 中国海防史:

v2-4651846ea2757e4e2ecb04e1bc961af0_r.jpeg


One jin 斤 of tribute iron 铁 (593 grams) is estimated to be worth 3.75 copper coins, one jin 斤 of pepper 胡椒 is estimated to cost 37.5 copper coins, while a blue and white porcelain bowl 青花白瓷碗 produced in China is estimated to be worth 3,750 copper coins, and an iron pot 铁锅 produced in China is estimated to be worth 1,875 copper coins (at the same time, the price of an iron pot in the Chinese market is 100 copper coins). Data from the book about the Ming Dynasty 大明会典. Even at several tens of times the price, these goods can still generate huge profits for tribute countries when sold again (especially considering that more Western countries value silk and porcelain with gold and silver, while during the Ming Dynasty, 1 liang 两 (37.3 grams) of silver could be exchanged for 1000 to 1500 copper coins).
 
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I absolutely love the heraldry for Angkor because it looks like naga in the style of East Asian dragons--unless I'm looking at it wrong and they are just dragons? In which case, I think it would be really cool to make them naga.
 
Can finally Deccan be divided into 2. So cholas consolidate Tamilakam, Andhra and Lanka and focus not in continental India but have maritime interests.

Other half being karnataka based empires, who were more involved with rest of India.

Chalukyas and Cholas even had their own 100 year war history. Though would be great if a struggle amongst them is added in a future flavour pack.
 
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Would contributing to Great Projects as a Chinese governor also improve your merit score? For example, if you're a governor in the North who spent a lot of your time there repairing and upgrading the Great Wall, then would you be seen as a Good Governor, who spent your time and treasury well?
Are the Devaraja's tributaries limited by religion? Could you have, say Hindu Tributaries as a Buddhist Devaraja?

Will you be able to recreate the Chola invasion of Southeast Asia? As in, will fighting wars overseas rather than just across land borders be easier to do in Southeast and South Asia. Will you be able to get casus belis aganst kingdoms across the sea fairly easily? As a Tamil, I've been waiting for this expansion to recreate the oceanic empire of the Cholas, and it would be very disappointing if game mechanics don't let you do so.
 
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Can finally Deccan be divided into 2. So cholas consolidate Tamilakam, Andhra and Lanka and focus not in continental India but have maritime interests.

Other half being karnataka based empires, who were more involved with rest of India.

Chalukyas and Cholas even had their own 100 year war history. Though would be great if a struggle amongst them is added in a future flavour pack.
Most definitely. Southeast Asia played as big a role, if not bigger, in Tamil history as North India did.
 
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Can finally Deccan be divided into 2. So cholas consolidate Tamilakam, Andhra and Lanka and focus not in continental India but have maritime interests.

Other half being karnataka based empires, who were more involved with rest of India.

Chalukyas and Cholas even had their own 100 year war history. Though would be great if a struggle amongst them is added in a future flavour pack.

I am not sure I agree entirely about the motivations here:
1: Do they really need one empire each to struggle against eachother? Now there is only one empire title to go around so arguably they have more reason to fight. The european hundred years war that you mention as a comparison was after all a struggle between kingdoms in CK terms.
2: For the first part: Do they actually need to have an empire title to do an overseas invasion of Bengal and Indonesia like the Cholas did historically?
3: Last but not least as you say the Cholas did go overseas and I am extremely excited to now be able to have that in the game. Militarily dominating southeast asia was also very much a one time thing in Indian history. As far as I know it never really happened again. If an empire title would help make this a more common occurence (which I am not sure about) then I am still not sure it is something we would want?
There is no question that southeast asia in this era was incredibly indophile, and that there were tamil traders, brahmins, and travellers going back and forth between the regions. This is in a way what this entire diary is about. But how that relates to the de jure borders in the subcontinent itself is not obvious to me :)

Like I said before though I think its easy to argue for many different empire tier divisions of land in this game, and India could certainly be split in more pieces if one wanted smaller empires there. I actually think Deccan makes sense as a cohesive unit to struggle over though, even if it was not home to multiple great powers at times.

The idea of treating Deccan or "the south" as one mega region is certainly present in Indian history over time, even if where the south begins and ends has shifted a bit back and forth depending on the context (but afaik it always included modern Karnataka and Telingana at least).
I also don't think its obvious what a split would mean exactly. Would you want just Maharasthra, Telingana and Karnata in the new "central/southern" Indian Empire? Does it make sense to split Andhra and Telingana from eachother? Would you want to add Malwa as well (this could be argued, though I would guess you don't want this since it was the location of the capital of the largest empire in the north at times)? One might also look at our Gondwana kingdom and where that should go.

The current setup is not perfect but I find it works pretty good for games in India and for grouping realms that did fight eachother a fair bit over areas. It is certainly possible to fit more Empires into the subcontinent if we wanted to, but I'd be interested in hearing more justification for it first as I am not sure I think it would improve how India plays :)
As for the Chola invasion of Southeast Asia, in 1066 it has already taken place, so there will be ample opportunity there to continue in that direction. I would also love to figure out a way where this can happen organically, but I think it is a separate discussion from the borders inside India. I have tried responding to both things here but I am happy to talk more about either of them.
 
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I am not sure I agree entirely about the motivations here:
1: Do they really need one empire each to struggle against eachother? Now there is only one empire title to go around so arguably they have more reason to fight. The european hundred years war that you mention as a comparison was after all a struggle between kingdoms in CK terms.
2: For the first part: Do they actually need to have an empire title to do an overseas invasion of Bengal and Indonesia like the Cholas did historically?
3: Last but not least as you say the Cholas did go overseas and I am extremely excited to now be able to have that in the game. Militarily dominating southeast asia was also very much a one time thing in Indian history. As far as I know it never really happened again. If an empire title would help make this a more common occurence (which I am not sure about) then I am still not sure it is something we would want?
There is no question that southeast asia in this era was incredibly indophile, and that there were tamil traders, brahmins, and travellers going back and forth between the regions. This is in a way what this entire diary is about. But how that relates to the de jure borders in the subcontinent itself is not obvious to me :)

Like I said before though I think its easy to argue for many different empire tier divisions of land in this game, and India could certainly be split in more pieces if one wanted smaller empires there. I actually think Deccan makes sense as a cohesive unit to struggle over though, even if it was not home to multiple great powers at times.

The idea of treating Deccan or "the south" as one mega region is certainly present in Indian history over time, even if where the south begins and ends has shifted a bit back and forth depending on the context (but afaik it always included modern Karnataka and Telingana at least).
I also don't think its obvious what a split would mean exactly. Would you want just Maharasthra, Telingana and Karnata in the new "central/southern" Indian Empire? Does it make sense to split Andhra and Telingana from eachother? Would you want to add Malwa as well (this could be argued, though I would guess you don't want this since it was the location of the capital of the largest empire in the north at times)? One might also look at our Gondwana kingdom and where that should go.

The current setup is not perfect but I find it works pretty good for games in India and for grouping realms that did fight eachother a fair bit over areas. It is certainly possible to fit more Empires into the subcontinent if we wanted to, but I'd be interested in hearing more justification for it first as I am not sure I think it would improve how India plays :)
It would be nice if Karnataka based one likes Rashtrakutas target northern India like they did in tripartite struggle.

Could have some special decision for a Andhra culture ruler to unite kingdoms of Telangana and Andhra.

Both Andhra (Vengi) and Telangana even south Karnataka duchies could act as frontier regions which were claimed by both Karnataka and Tamil powers.

Karnataka rulers could have decision to expand their influence in Gujarat and Malwa, like Rashtrakutas did.

And maritime Tamils could do this with Kalinga coast and SEA.

These South Indian empires were in a way smaller than the north Indian counterparts (who on the other hand controlled both Rajasthan and Bengal empires simultaneously, that too by multiple dynasties), but were way more long lasting.

But despite that I think in 867 there should be a single Deccan empire, and tamils/lankans should have decision to form tamil based empire, like sultanate of Rum decision, which starts rivalry and feud between original Deccan empire holder and the new upstarts.

In 1066 we were during peak of Chola Chalukya wars. Vikramaditya VI the second prince of Kalyani chalukyas did try to have control on both with his puppet Chola emperor, Son of 1066 ruler, but both the father and son died around 1070. And Kullotunga Chola brought stability to tamils. Vikramaditya still tried to take over Vengi (Andhra) but was defeated by Kullotunga.

Though later on some shift happened, would be nice if this could be included. Muslims took over Maharashtra, north Karnataka and Telangana and founded Deccan sultanate.

Whereas Karnataka under Sangama dynasty consolidated South Karnataka, tamil lands, konkan coast and Andhra and formed Vijaynagar Empire (also historically known as Karnataka empire).

So to say south was united would be farthest from the truth, except peak of Rashtrakuta rule.
 
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But despite that I think in 867 there should be a single Deccan empire, and tamils/lankans should have decision to form tamil based empire, like sultanate of Rum decision, which starts rivalry and feud between original Deccan empire holder and the new upstarts.
I second this, and it's not just as if the Tamils were just trader back then. The Indian cultural artefacts that remain to this very day in, say, Sumatra, are very closely related to the Tamils, and I think that's where the line between a kingdom and an empire is drawn. A kingdom is a consolidated power while Empire is an influental presence that left a huge mark in a region, like how Srivijaya's domination over the Malay peninsula cemented Malay language as the lingua franca in the area so much that the Dutch didn't even bother to teach people Dutch during colonization. I think Tamil cultural influence over the area that lasted for at least 1000 years would definitely made Chola an empire, or at least put them in favor of being one.
 
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Also, if the cultural setting is not fixed and still is being discussed, I would strongly suggest splitting the Malay in Sumatra and Malay in the Peninsula into two separate groups as both of them are actually distinctly different, even from language standing point. Sumatran Malay and Peninsular Malay difference isn't even like Scottish English to, say, Yorkish or BBC English. It's like Dutch to German.
 
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As for the Chola invasion of Southeast Asia, in 1066 it has already taken place, so there will be ample opportunity there to continue in that direction. I would also love to figure out a way where this can happen organically, but I think it is a separate discussion from the borders inside India. I have tried responding to both things here but I am happy to talk more about either of them.
How will you guys be treating the Visayan Epic of Maragtas?
It's historicity itself is debatable because it's an oral legend that's only written down in the 19th century, but it suggests that bornean datus fled to Panay after the shattering of Sri Vijaya by the Cholas. The term Bisaya/Visayan* itself is potential etymologically to Sri Vijaya.

*Bisaya/Visayan Origins
 
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This stereotype has been a backward view for many years, especially after examining the list of tribute gifts exchanged by Chinese dynasties in East Asia and Southeast Asia (mainly based on Ming Dynasty records, only because Ming Dynasty records are more detailed).

Firstly, it is necessary to clarify a clearly erroneous viewpoint: tribute countries (rather than Chinese dynasties) always hope to frequently come to pay tribute, because tribute is a way to obtain goods directly from China at a lower cost (rather than indirectly obtaining goods through Chinese or other merchants, such as silk, porcelain, tea, etc.), and obtaining goods is the main source of profit for tribute countries, rather than the gold and silver rewards given by the emperor (in fact, the emperor only rewards a small amount of copper coins).

Regarding the issue of Chinese goods, in fact, this is not a reward from the emperor, but rather a situation where tribute teams are allowed to freely trade goods within China, and the prices of silk, porcelain, tea and other goods in China are much lower than outside China, resulting in a win-win situation to some extent. The tribute country obtained rare Chinese goods by approaching the cost price of the place of origin, which can generate huge profits for both domestic use and resale. In fact, the place of origin of Chinese goods sold these goods at a higher price than the local price, resulting in more profits compared to ordinary trade. Only merchants trading in China and other regions suffered losses.

China's gift-return generally consists of several aspects: symbolic copper coins (rather than gold and silver), objects given by the emperor to the monarchs of tribute countries for use (to show the emperor's importance, usually jade or gold and silver objects), and more importantly, Chinese commodity trade qualifications (such as silk, porcelain, and tea, which is why tribute is usually considered to have trade attributes). In the Ming Dynasty, even the returned copper coins were replaced by paper currency 大明宝钞, and the emperor would forcibly claim that these paper currency had the value stated on paper (however, in fact, they were worthless waste paper due to inflation).

Paper currency had already appeared in the Song Dynasty, so it is uncertain whether the Song Dynasty would also do the same. However, due to the long-term lack of heavy metal mines (such as copper mines) in Chinese dynasties, it is difficult to consider it reasonable to reward tribute countries with a large amount of precious metals, especially since most of China's tribute countries have heavy metal mines (especially Japan, which has famous copper and silver resources). Compared to precious metal rewards, Chinese luxury goods are more valuable rewards for those tribute countries.
View attachment 1325999
paper currency of Ming Dynasty 大明宝钞

View attachment 1326001
paper currency of Song Dynasty 宋朝 交子

For Korea, the emperors of the Yuan and Ming dynasties even demanded a large number of horses as tribute (even though Korea produced very few horses, which was a form of exploitation by the emperor of the tribute country), which had a huge impact on Korea's national strength. However, due to the importance of luxury goods such as silk and porcelain trade, Korea remained enthusiastic about tribute.

Another example is the Japanese tribute notes during the reign of Emperor Yingzong of Ming Dynasty, which recorded 9,483 Japanese swords as tribute, each valued at 6 guan 贯 copper coins (i.e. 6,000 copper coins), but denominated in paper currency. However, the 6 guan paper currency was actually only worth 30 copper coins in the market, which was a huge loss for Japan. Nevertheless, the Chinese goods purchased by the Japanese tribute team during the tribute period brought them profits of over 90,000 guan copper coins (i.e. 90,000,000 copper coins) upon their return to Japan. (The information comes from the records of Emperor Yingzong of Ming Dynasty 明英宗实录)

Many stereotypes tend to overestimate the value of rebates in tribute to the emperor, without considering that the main item in rebates is artifacts rather than currency. They consider Chinese goods purchased by tribute groups as gifts from the emperor, and often value these goods outside of China, ignoring that these goods are not related to the emperor himself and that China, as the largest producer, only needs to calculate cost prices.

In addition, another legal provision also briefly proves that tribute is not unprofitable.
According to the laws of the Ming Dynasty 大明律, if tribute vessels that have not been inspected and confirmed by the government engage in private trade, all relevant personnel will be sent to the military front line (such as Mongolia) as soldiers.

Price conversion of various commodities in Ming Dynasty tribute, pictures from the history of Chinese coastal defense 中国海防史:

View attachment 1325998

One jin 斤 of tribute iron 铁 (593 grams) is estimated to be worth 3.75 copper coins, one jin 斤 of pepper 胡椒 is estimated to cost 37.5 copper coins, while a blue and white porcelain bowl 青花白瓷碗 produced in China is estimated to be worth 3,750 copper coins, and an iron pot 铁锅 produced in China is estimated to be worth 1,875 copper coins (at the same time, the price of an iron pot in the Chinese market is 100 copper coins). Data from the book about the Ming Dynasty 大明会典. Even at several tens of times the price, these goods can still generate huge profits for tribute countries when sold again (especially considering that more Western countries value silk and porcelain with gold and silver, while during the Ming Dynasty, 1 liang 两 (37.3 grams) of silver could be exchanged for 1000 to 1500 copper coins).
It's might be like you said officially but Ayutthaya situation prove that tribute mission is very lucrative (through trade access like you said legally or even illegally).

"Xian sent sixty-eight tribute missions to China between 1369 and 1439, far more than the Chinese stipulation of one every three years, and more than any other port."

" In 1383, Ayutthaya was the first to be given a new Chinese certificates of trade, followed by fourteen other places."

"Ayutthayan traders were specifically exempted from prosecution, and the Ming shi-lu reported that “Xian-luo is the most familiar” of the 167 ports with which the Chinese transacted. Although the emperor repeatedly warned other polities not to send tribute missions more frequently than once in three years, Ayutthaya often sent missions annually without receiving a rebuke. Ayutthaya ships were regularly assisted when they were blown ashore on the Chinese coast, attacked by robbers, or ran out of money. The Tai-zu emperor (1370–98) considered only Ayutthaya and the Khmer were well-behaved, and rejected missions from several other ports."

"At the same time, Ayutthayan traders quietly developed business outside the tribute system. An Ayutthayan ship wrecked off Hainan in 1374 was “suspected to be (just) a foreign merchant” because there was no official manifest and many of the items were not on the approved list. In 1457 and 1481 Ayutthaya traders were rebuked for privately purchasing salt and children outside the tribute framework.53 Yet Ayutthaya paid enough attention to the niceties of official trade to ensure these mutually profitable indiscretions were overlooked."

Quoted from History of Ayutthaya, Siam in Early Modern World by Chris Baker, Pasuk Phongpaichit. Ayutthaya Rising Chapter Xian and China section.

To noted, Xian is what China referring to Ayutthaya, the city while Xian-luo is Ayutthaya, the kingdom coming from Xian (Ayutthaya city) and Luo (Lavo/Lopburi).

If the tribute mission isn't profitable then why would Ayutthaya sent triple the number of limit? Not triple of obligate, but the limit.

They even got caught doing trade illegally outside of tribute mission but only got a slap on the wrist for their trouble too.

But ofc we shouldn't overlook the effect on legitimacy in tributary states too because aside from the lucrative trade, Ayutthaya also recieved “seal of the king of the country”, their king even got a set of red-dragon robes from Chinese emperor, there was even envoy from China attending Ayutthaya's king funeral too.

Though my example might be a bit outside of CK3 era but unfortunately my knowledge regarding CK3 era is kind of blank but this should demonstrate the historical trend of tributary of being really lucrative for tribute state, not only the emperor.
 
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I like the new icons for devotion.
 
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I am not sure I agree entirely about the motivations here:
1: Do they really need one empire each to struggle against eachother? Now there is only one empire title to go around so arguably they have more reason to fight. The european hundred years war that you mention as a comparison was after all a struggle between kingdoms in CK terms.
2: For the first part: Do they actually need to have an empire title to do an overseas invasion of Bengal and Indonesia like the Cholas did historically?
3: Last but not least as you say the Cholas did go overseas and I am extremely excited to now be able to have that in the game. Militarily dominating southeast asia was also very much a one time thing in Indian history. As far as I know it never really happened again. If an empire title would help make this a more common occurence (which I am not sure about) then I am still not sure it is something we would want?
There is no question that southeast asia in this era was incredibly indophile, and that there were tamil traders, brahmins, and travellers going back and forth between the regions. This is in a way what this entire diary is about. But how that relates to the de jure borders in the subcontinent itself is not obvious to me :)

Like I said before though I think its easy to argue for many different empire tier divisions of land in this game, and India could certainly be split in more pieces if one wanted smaller empires there. I actually think Deccan makes sense as a cohesive unit to struggle over though, even if it was not home to multiple great powers at times.

The idea of treating Deccan or "the south" as one mega region is certainly present in Indian history over time, even if where the south begins and ends has shifted a bit back and forth depending on the context (but afaik it always included modern Karnataka and Telingana at least).
I also don't think its obvious what a split would mean exactly. Would you want just Maharasthra, Telingana and Karnata in the new "central/southern" Indian Empire? Does it make sense to split Andhra and Telingana from eachother? Would you want to add Malwa as well (this could be argued, though I would guess you don't want this since it was the location of the capital of the largest empire in the north at times)? One might also look at our Gondwana kingdom and where that should go.

The current setup is not perfect but I find it works pretty good for games in India and for grouping realms that did fight eachother a fair bit over areas. It is certainly possible to fit more Empires into the subcontinent if we wanted to, but I'd be interested in hearing more justification for it first as I am not sure I think it would improve how India plays :)
As for the Chola invasion of Southeast Asia, in 1066 it has already taken place, so there will be ample opportunity there to continue in that direction. I would also love to figure out a way where this can happen organically, but I think it is a separate discussion from the borders inside India. I have tried responding to both things here but I am happy to talk more about either of them.
If the partial rework of the India map is in the cards, then could you take look at the North India, and specificially the empire of Rajasthan? :) Its de jure map has the problem of Rajputana kingdom & Rajasthani culture which probably should be either split, or reparceled among the neighbours until after we’d get a start date after the second battle of Tarain (1191).

The issue is that the Rajasthani cultural identity (as opposed to Rajput group identity; but Rajputs are neither majority group, nor more prevalent – as a percentage of population - in Rajasthan than Delhi; and also that’s not cultural identity) is still pretty weak today – and it only seriously started to solidify as it was promoted in XXth century. It’s not that hard to see why: the entire region is split in the middle by mountain range, while it doesn’t have such borders with most neighbouring regions. it also has a very distinct environment on each part of the mountain: with the Marwar being a desert, and much more fertile Mewar. as a result, you would find that e.g. linguistic dialects – a map of which I would copy [since they hint at a good split], but I don’t have Lorenzen next to me rn – generally don’t align along the borders. and so on, so on.

(That said, two big dialects that constitute Rajasthani literary traditions – dingal and pingal – could be separate languages in its own rules; or the pingal could be braj bhasha, as Braj Bhasha [literary form of Braj dialect of Hindi spectrum] definitely should be in the game.)

The area also did not exist as a distinct political entity before the second battle of Tarain. afterwards, it was kinda distinct by the virtue of basically being the place where the Rajput kingdoms prevailed in the face of Ghorid conquests; and the Rajputs are very, very distinct group. They have, however, ruled most of the North Indian kingdoms before Ghorid incursion, and there is virtually no big distinction between e.g. Delhi area, and Jaipur area with regards to how many Rajputs live there… and thus a later distinct identity of Rajput states is IMHO bad justification to have it as a distinct de jure kingdom on start date.

(IMHO it would make more sense as a dynamical culture / kingdom if the game will simulate a Muslim / other conquest in the future. I mean: I can see Rajputana forming after most of the Rajput states would fall, and the remaining ones band together in a sort of Confederacy [but still fighting all the time], and create dynamically de jure.)
 
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Hi, I read that the developers are struggling a bit with maritime southeast asia due to lack of sources (no wonder because most sources are in Indonesian and Dutch). I might be able to help a bit as an Indonesian and history nerd. There are so many things I want to write but I'd just post the most important ones:

1. There should be a system that simulates the fertility of Java. The fertility of the land in Java is very crucial in the history of this region. Java is relatively very fertile due to its many active volcanoes. These volcanoes often disrupted the development of kingdoms in Java, but afterwards gave tremendous fertility. This fertility could support a large population and was a source of strength for the Javanese kingdoms in dominating the maritime region. This fertility was decisive in the Sumatra vs Java wars from the 900s to the early 1000s which ended in the destruction of Srivijaya (with a Coup de Grace by the Cholas) and Javanese domination which continues to this day. The system does not need to be complicated, random events and modifiers are enough, although a separate system is preferable. Without this, it is difficult to simulate the dominance of the Javanese kingdoms because Java is geographically less strategic.

2. This is more crucial, there should be a unique trade system for Southeast Asian maritime (maybe also in the mainland, but I don't really know). Without a different system I guarantee this region will be very boring. The spread of Islam through trade happened after the end date of CK3, but they just piggybacked on the existing trade system. Previously Islam could not enter because it was blocked by the Hindu-Buddhist kingdoms of Java and Sumatra. This trade system can be said to be the backbone of the tributaries system. In line with modern economic theory that trade will prevent war, this has long been the case in maritime Southeast Asia. Large-scale wars between kingdoms were rare, only small skirmishes mostly. The only major wars that occurred from 867-1453 were the Sumatra vs Java War, the 1293 Mongol Invasion, and the Majapahit Conquests (of course not including civil wars, Majapahit civil wars alone were very costly contributing to the decline of the power of the entire region so that Islam and later Europeans could enter uncontested).
Going back to the trading system, many kingdoms preferred to submit to a superior kingdom (usually from Java or Sumatra) because apart from the fear of military operations, they could also get protection and preferences in trade. Large kingdoms controlled crucial straits and trade routes, so it was safer to just submit to them, as vassals could also get lower trade tariffs.
Trade in the region was also not competitive, but complementary. It created an incentive to not be in conflict with one another. One of the main sources of power for the Javanese kingdoms, besides their population, was their ability to monopolize the logistics of spices before they were sold to China and India. Java itself was the bread basket of the archipelago, so the payment of tribute by other kingdoms to the kingdoms in Java was just a formality because they had long been bound in a trading system.
I think this kind of trading system has not been simulated in CK3, a system that is not only about the flow of wealth but also the flow of political influence.
 
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