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Dev Diary #20 - Religion and Faith

Come one, come all! Zealots and cynics, fundamentalists and heretics! It is time for us to finally talk about religion in Crusader Kings III, and all that it entails.

While parts of the religion system in CK3 may seem familiar to fans of the previous games, the system itself has been completely rebuilt from the ground up. As a result, there is little point in talking about changes from CK2; instead, I will start diving into how religion works in CK3 and what that means to you as a player.

The Religious Hierarchy
The most logical place to start talking about religion in CK3 is with… Religions! As a game concept, a Religion is defined by four main things:
  • What Traits are considered Sins and Virtues (3 each by default)
  • What Religion Family it belongs to (Abrahamic, Oriental, or Pagan)
  • What the standard religious Doctrines are for its Faiths
  • What Tenets are available to its Faiths
Individual characters and counties will never believe in a whole Religion — they believe in a Faith instead, with each Religion having several Faiths under it. For example, Catholicism and Orthodoxy are Faiths under Christianity, while Theravada and Mahayana are Faiths under Buddhism.

DD_WM_ChristianFaiths.png

[Screenshot showing a selection of either Christian Faiths, including distinct Coptic and Apostolic Faiths]

Similar to the way that Faiths belong to a Religion, Religions belong to a Religion Family. Religion Families are little more than groups of Religions, but this does serve an important purpose, as it plays a significant part in how Faith Hostility is calculated (more on that in a later Dev Diary).

Anatomy of a Faith
So if a character believes in a Faith, what does that mean for them? Well, each Faith is based on its parent Religion and inherits those attributes, but will be differentiated from other Faiths by its Tenets, Doctrines, and Holy Sites.

Tenets
Tenets are mechanical representations of the most important rites, rituals, and traditions of a Faith. Every Faith has exactly 3, picked from a total of around 50 different Tenets in the whole game. Tenets are the things which make a Faith special and unique, the things that set it apart from the other Faiths even within the same Religion (and especially outside of it).

DD_WM_Catholicism.png

[Screenshot of the Catholic Faith’s 3 Tenets - Armed Pilgrimages, Communion, and Monasticism]

Taking Catholicism as an example, we see one of their Tenets is that of Communion. This Tenet is what allows the Catholic Pope to excommunicate rulers, as well as allowing rulers to buy Indulgences from the Pope.

DD_WM_CommunionTenet.png

[Screenshot of the Communion Tenet, promoting values of honesty and community among adherents]

You may notice here that Communion also modifies what traits are considered Sins and Virtues by the Faith. While every Faith inherits 3 Sins and Virtues from its parent Religion, Tenets can add, modify, or remove these.

While some Tenets are unique to a single Faith, others are shared among multiple Faiths. For example, both Catholicism and Orthodoxy have the Communion Tenet. However, it is important to note that no two Faiths have the exact same combination of Tenets — as a result, every Faith will play at least a little differently, and some drastically so!

DD_WM_SacredLies.png

[Screenshot of the Sacred Lies Tenet, promoting scheming and treachery among adherents]

Doctrines
While less impactful than Tenets, Doctrines are still a crucial part of each Faith. A Faith’s Doctrines determine both its clerical structure as well as what its adherents can and cannot legally do.

DD_WM_Doctrines.png

[Screenshot of the Catholic Doctrines]

Every Faith has at least 18 Doctrines, with a few extras depending on the circumstances. While every Religion has a default stance for each Doctrine, these should be considered guidelines more than actual rules; individual Faiths can and do break away from standard dogma when appropriate. The different Doctrines are broken up into 4 categories:

  • Main Doctrines
  • Marriage Doctrines
  • Crime Doctrines
  • Clergy Doctrines

Main Doctrines cover how a Faith is organized on a fundamental level. These include things such as the traditional gender roles of a Faith, if the Faith has a Religious Head or not, how accepting (or unaccepting!) the Faith is of other Faiths and Religions, and if its priests must be part of a dedicated theocracy or if lay clergy are permitted.

Marriage Doctrines cover who is allowed to get married and how: if rulers can have multiple spouses, if concubines are permitted, if and when divorce is permitted, if extramarital relations can result in legitimate heirs, and who can even get married in the first place.

The Crime Doctrines cover what acts, if any, are considered immoral or even outright criminal. Characters who are publicly known to have violated these principles are Shunned, suffering an opinion penalty with all characters of that Faith, and may even be considered an outright Criminal who can be lawfully imprisoned and punished for their violations against divine law.

Finally the Clergy Doctrines determine how priests must behave and what their primary role in society is. The Clergy Doctrines also determine what power, if any, secular rulers have over the clergy within their realm.

Holy Sites
Finally, every Faith has some number of Holy Sites that this Faith considers to be more sacred than the rest. Controlling these Holy Sites will give a bonus to all characters of that Faith; this can create a significant source of conflict in the game, as many different Faiths can share specific Holy Sites, and every one of them wants to be the one in control!

DD_WM_HolySites.png

[Screenshot showing the five Orthodox Holy Sites and their corresponding bonuses]

Moddability
I’m going to go on a quick tangent here and talk about modding Faiths and Religions in Crusader Kings III. Primarily, I want to mention that everything I have talked about so far is completely modular! This means Religion Groups, Religions, Faiths, Doctrines, Tenets, and Holy Sites can all be swapped in and out, modified, changed, or new ones added with even just a basic knowledge of scripting.

DD_WM_Script.png

[Screenshot of a script snippet showcasing the Coptic Faith’s parameters]

This is one of the primary reasons we settled on the Faith, Tenet, and Doctrine system for CK3. Even though religion has a massive impact and touches dozens of game systems, it is easy for even new modders to dip their toes into the pool and start adding or changing things as they see fit. For experienced modders, this setup improves productivity and reduces the risk of introducing bugs. This has also had the side-effect of improving our productivity here at the office, which brings me to...

This is my Faith. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
At current count, we have 99 different Faiths in Crusader Kings III, all of which are fully playable. That more than doubles the number of playable religions we had in CK2 after Jade Dragon released.

DD_WM_EgyptNubia.png

[Screenshot of Egypt and Nubia, showing the diverse number of Faiths in the region]

Remember what I said earlier about how no two Faiths have the same combination of Tenets, and how every Faith would play at least slightly differently?

Yeah.

Your options are quite extensive:
  • You can play as the good ol’ Catholics, or one of their heresies like the Cathars.
  • You can play a different branch of Christianity, such as the Coptic Church or the Armenian Apostolic Church.
  • You can play as a more unusual branch of Christianity like the Adamites.
  • You can play not just as Sunni or Shia, but as individual religious movements or schools within them such as the Ash’ari or Maturidi, and the Isma’ili or Qarmatian.
  • You can play as various Jewish movements, such as the Karaites or Rabbanists.
  • You can play as a Dualist sect, such as Sabianism or Manicheanism.
  • You can play as individual branches of Hinduism, such as Vaishnavism and Shaktism, or make the choice between Therevada, Mahayana, and Vajrayana Buddhism.
  • You can play as one of three different schools of Confucianism, shaped by differing philosophies and focuses.
  • You can play as a distinct African pagan Faith such as Bori Animism or the Senegambian Roog Sene.
  • You can play as either Tengri or Magyar steppe pagans each with their own special traditions.
  • You can play as one of the Indian or Tibetan pagans as well, extending beyond Bon and into other regional and cultural Faiths.
  • Finally, don't forget the old favorite pagan Faiths like Norse (now called Asatru)!
While many of these faiths will have some similarities and common elements (especially within the same Religion), none of them are identical to each other. They all differentiate themselves mechanically in at least one way, and often in many ways. But… let’s say you’ve looked at every single one of these Faiths, and none of them are quite right. What, then, is a soul-searching medieval ruler to do?

Well, join us next week for the Dev Diary on Custom Faith Creation and Pagan Reformation!
 
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I would imagine that you could easily make a mod that adds a celtic religion
Yes, but that's not the point. What I want to avoid, compared to CK2, is feeling like you need certain religion mods in order to fully represent historic religions. CK3 is clearly much better out of the box at representing the full spectrum of european, north-african, and near-asian religion, so why not just implement the last few groups, even if they had few/no worshippers in 867? They don't have to be fully fleshed out, modders can do that, but just having them implemented in the base game changes the modding equation from "adding a celtic pagan religion" to "making the existing celtic pagan religion better", and I'd much rather deal with the latter than the former.
 
Nice choice with the Baphomet icon for Deviancy. Of course, the Knights Templar almost certainly were not Satanists of any stripe, nor in league with Muslims (the name of the demon probably just comes from 'Mahomet'), what mattered was the perception that they were, and that sounds like what the Deviancy idea is about.
 
How are syncretic faith like Manicheanism or Yazidi be categorised though?
since they already said Yazidi is in and no longer a "Muslim heresy" and rather its own separate thing, I imagine it will be under Pagan, since it being "oriental" seems a bit weird. Though Pagan has some connotations that aren't great considering modern religious politics, to be honest
 
I doubt Basque Paganism was still a thing.
First because Basques were already christianized during CK's timeline, and second because the archaeological evidence shows that religion among the Basques didn't follow a different track than religion in the Gauls or Iberia. It became part of the Roman religious structure, then it shifted to christianity as the entire empire converted to it.
The stuff I've read about Basque paganism on this forum and elsewhere suggests the opposite, that the rural population there remained barely if at all Christianized for a lot of the CK2's time period and the old customs survived in some form up to EU4's times.
 
... which is a good thing, because it probably means that we're going to have 99 historical religions, and not a mix of historical ones, weird reinterpretations (like yezidi as a heresy of Islam), semi-ahistorical ones (like Zunism) or completely ahistorical ones (like the thing hellenism was - which is by no means what the religion of the Greeks was, but rather the result of mad scholars thinking it would be best to ressurrect some old gods. In many ways CK2's hellenism is more similar to Cthulhu worshipping than actual greco-roman old religions).
Hellenism is in as a dead religion with 0 special events or decisions, but one you *can* convert to, see post # 74 (on page 4 of the thread). That puts it in much closer to the generic pagan pre-Holy Fury than the Holy Fury Hellenism.
 
since they already said Yazidi is in and no longer a "Muslim heresy" and rather its own separate thing, I imagine it will be under Pagan, since it being "oriental" seems a bit weird. Though Pagan has some connotations that aren't great considering modern religious politics, to be honest

I expect them to be in the Abrahamic group due to the fact that Yazidism has many similarities with general Abrahamic mythos.
 
You can play a different branch of Christianity, such as the Coptic Church or the Armenian Apostolic Church.

What is the rationale for separating the Copts from the Armenians? This is considering they are both part of the Oriental Orthodoxy. This would be the equivalent of splitting the Eastern Orthodoxy into Greeks, Georgians, and Russians.
 
The stuff I've read about Basque paganism on this forum and elsewhere suggests the opposite, that the rural population there remained barely if at all Christianized for a lot of the CK2's time period and the old customs survived in some form up to EU4's times.
and yet I have read other people here responding to that saying it's nonsense. People just have a hard-on for European paganism even when it's nonsensical and ahistorical.
I expect them to be in the Abrahamic group due to the fact that Yazidism has many similarities with general Abrahamic mythos.
I suppose that's possible, and I wonder if they will add the Alawites too, who share a lot with both Islam and Christianity (much more the former than the latter) and consider themselves Muslim.
 
since they already said Yazidi is in and no longer a "Muslim heresy" and rather its own separate thing, I imagine it will be under Pagan, since it being "oriental" seems a bit weird.
I'd argue given that Zoroastrianism will be under the Oriental family as a non-Abrahamic Asian faith, Yazidi likely will be too.
 
I'd rather see Insular Christianity
Celtic Insular Christianity could be a very interesting addition.

The Celtic Region's version of christianity was not brought fully into line with mainstream Catholicism until the 1100s and was one of the reasons the Catholic Church supported the Norman invasions of Ireland and Wales.
 
What is the rationale for separating the Copts from the Armenians?
Didn't they split after different councils? My (admittedly not super well versed) understanding is the Armenians were "schismed out" over the monophysitism question early, as they had the more extreme viewpoint, and the Copts continued with un-differentiated pre-chalcedonian christianity until later on when they were also "schismed out" (and of course the two groups continued to differentiate after that, as they existed largely outside of each other's spheres of influence). If we're able to have such fine-grained differentiation in the new religion system, it seems like we should.
 
What is the rationale for separating the Copts from the Armenians? This is considering they are both part of the Oriental Orthodoxy. This would be the equivalent of splitting the Eastern Orthodoxy into Greeks, Georgians, and Russians.

I sort of have the same concerns. My personal theory is that just like in Ck2 a religion needs to have Religous leader, it can’t have multiple, so the religion needs an overall head, and by putting either the Coptic Pope or Armenian Patriarch in charge you get everything mixed up since now the Coptic Pope can excommunicate an Armenian count he shouldn’t have authority over or vice versa. I think at the very least that if they keep this mechanic they should have both have a special relationship that means they share Communion, have a positive relations boost and can interact with each other peacefully, and that members treat each other like the same religion etc.
 
Didn't they split after different councils? My (admittedly not super well versed) understanding is the Armenians were "schismed out" over the monophysitism question early, as they had the more extreme viewpoint, and the Copts continued with un-differentiated pre-chalcedonian christianity until later on when they were also "schismed out" (and of course the two groups continued to differentiate after that, as they existed largely outside of each other's spheres of influence). If we're able to have such fine-grained differentiation in the new religion system, it seems like we should.
Nope not even close. They are still in Communion and have literally not seperated or even had minor Religous tension in the entire history of Christianity. I don’t know about the original post, but my personal problem is with how each being Ecumenical Patriarchs’ is going to totally mess up the Religous order, and whether or not the characters will get opinion modifiers for ‘Religous differences’ that don’t exist etc. they should have near identical doctrines at the very least and treat each other as the same religion if anything else.
 
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NIce DD!

But...

Sacred Lies as tenet? I think it's a little bit ridiculous, i mean, is there really a religion that encourage lies?

I really can't think the connection between lie and spirituality
 
Nope not even close. They are still in Communion and have literally not seperated or even had minor Religous tension in the entire history of Christianity.
Sure, they still are on good terms with each other, but my point is that they did not operate as one body at the time they split from the other christian groups. I'd rather see them represented as two groups who have special opinion bonuses with each other for that reason, rather than trying to cram both into the same group.