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Dev Diary #21 - Custom Faiths and Pagan Reformation

Oh, hello there! Interested in becoming a heresiarch, are we? Or maybe you just want to organize your ancestor’s ancient spiritual traditions into a true reformed Faith, one that can stand up to the Crescent and Cross? Either way, you’ve come to the right place!

To start us off, I’m going to go into how the process of creating a new Faith or reforming a pagan one works. After that, there will be a teaser of some Tenets and Doctrines that you may be interested in picking for your newly-founded Faiths ;)

Faith Creation
Creating a new Faith is no easy task. Only the most pious rulers will be able to convince the clergy within their realm that they alone know the true will of the divine and, in doing so, take the first steps towards establishing a new Faith. However, with a little bit of devotion and a lot of time, you too will be able to reshape your Faith to suit your dynasty’s needs!

When looking at your own Faith’s tenets and doctrines, you will see a button at the bottom labeled ‘Create New Faith’. Clicking this button will open the Faith Creation window, which can be viewed at any time — even long before you have acquired the means to actually create a new Faith! This will allow you to play around with the different options and get a feel for what is possible, allowing you to set long-term goals for yourself.

DD_CreateAFaith_WM.png
[Screenshot of the Faith Creation window showing modified Tenets and Doctrines]

You can change every single Tenet and Doctrine of your hypothetical new Faith on this screen, though the list of what Tenets are available to pick varies from Religion to Religion. For example, Tenets based on the concept of Dharma are exclusive to Oriental Religions, whereas Monasticism was common practice and is thus available to everyone. This means when creating a new Faith, you must first ensure you are a member of the Religion that you want to base your new Faith off of.

Beyond simple availability, it is also easier for some Religions to accept certain Doctrines than others. For example, Islam is used to polyamory and will happily accept a new Faith espousing it. In contrast, a new Christian faith that claims God intended us to have multiple spouses will be met with a little more skepticism...

The way this plays out in CK3 is that each Tenet and Doctrine has a Piety cost associated with it. The further you deviate from your original Faith, the more Piety you will need in order to convince the priests that yes, you actually have had a vision from the divine and yes, you actually are enforcing their will and not just trying to make some weird personal sex cult.

DD_Cosanguinity_WM.png

[Screenshot of the scaling costs for the Cosanguinity Doctrine]

After you have made all the changes you want, you will be given the total amount of Piety your character needs in order to create their new Faith. This cost can get quite high, meaning that creating a new Faith or reforming a pagan one ends up being a life-long goal for most characters. It is highly recommended to attempt this with characters who have a Learning education and/or who have multiple Virtuous personality traits, and having the ability to go on frequent pilgrimages or donate gold & troops to holy causes helps too! Finally, timing your divine revelation to completely coincidentally occur when your Faith is suffering from low Fervor will make it much easier to get everyone to buy into your new canon (I will talk more about Fervor in our future Dev Diary on heresy outbreaks).

Once you are happy with your Tenets and Doctrines and have accumulated the necessary amount of Piety, you can officially convert to your new Faith. You and your capital county will adopt it immediately, but it won’t be easy for a ruler to convince their vassals and subjects to adopt this strange new Faith — they might be more inclined to stage an uprising and depose their mad king from the throne! After all, if you die before your new Faith gains a foothold in the world, there is a good chance your Faith will die with you…

Pagan Reformation
Pagan Faiths in Crusader Kings III start out with the special ‘Unreformed’ Doctrine.

This Doctrine grants notable bonuses to Tribal rulers early on, but it locks them into the Tribal government type and provides substantial Opinion penalties to any non-Tribal vassals they acquire. Since Tribal realms are notoriously unstable, successful chieftains will eventually want to look into either converting to a reformed religion so they can feudalize, or reforming their pagan religion into a true organized faith.

Like with Faith Creation, rulers must earn a substantial amount of Piety to organize their Faith’s disparate shamans into a coherent clergy. In addition, they must have at least 3 of their Faith’s holy sites located within their realm.

DD_VidilismHolySites_WM.png

[Screenshot showing 3 of the Vidilist Holy Sites]

Once you accomplish this, the process is quite similar to creating a new Faith of an existing reformed Religion. Your vassals may still be reluctant to convert to your newly reformed Faith, but because reformed Faiths gain a bonus to conversion against unreformed Faiths, you will have a much easier time convincing them to go along with your reformation than a heresiarch within in an existing Faith would have with making a new heresy.

DD_ReformationNew_WM.png

[Screenshot showing a Vidilist reformation event]

Tenet and Doctrine teaser

To finish this off, here are a few choice tenets and doctrines which you can pick when creating a new Faith in CK3. Many of these are also used by already existing Faiths, but some are only available to custom Faiths created by players. As you can see, there is a lot of variety in the kinds of custom Faiths you can create — ultimately every kind of playstyle should have some set of Tenets and Doctrines to support it!

DD_Tenet_Showcase_WM.png
[Screenshot of the Tenets Warmonger, Human Sacrifice, Ritual Cannibalism, Christian Syncretism, Dharmic Pacifism, Carnal Exaltation, Divine Marriage, Sacred Childbirth, and the Doctrines Pluralism and Fundamentalist]

That is all I have for you this week, but join us next time as my colleague @Heptopus talks about the diversity across the world in CK3 and the many different ways you can tailor the game experience to match your personal preferences!
 
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Paying like 8k piety Obviously make it a novelty, than an actual sound strategic decision but I suspect that is the Point. However if you ever have so much piety maybe you are at that Point that nothing reallty matters anymore and it is simply a mechanic to allow changing/mess up the World when you don't have much else to do anymore.
 
1. Can I have male-dominated or male only secular titles but female only clergy, or the other way around?
2. If I control a Hellenic holy site, I can convert to it for a steep cost and reform it eventually? (I know it does not have special features or events, but is it still possible?)
3. Can a heresy ever make peace with their parent religion, as in becoming another faith of their religion like Catholic and Orthodox?
4. Will your heresy be considered heresy to separate faiths of your religion, like would a Catholic heresy be heretical to Orthodox? If not, will the addition of more egregious features like cannibalism cause the other faiths to see your faith as heresy?
 
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One question about the customization that I haven't seen asked is whether we can edit the 'god list' equivalent. You know, whether you could say swap out one 'High God' for another, or add another deity to the list of deities that pop up in random events or take one or more deities off the list. Maybe even the ability to edit the default flavor descriptions?
 
Will it be possible to convert back to a pagan religion if you are Christian or Muslim?

If so, how many pagan religions will be added? Only those who still had widespread practice such as Norse and Baltic paganism or will all paganism be able to be reborn, such as Greco-Roman or Celtic paganism?

What will be the conditions and consequences of returning Paganism?
 
No, but if you convert to the reformed pagan faith you can schism off your own branch as normal .


1.) Yes
2.) Yes
3.) The codebase can support this, but there will not be any in-game content for this on release. We plan on adding events/mechanics around this in the future (mods, of course, will also have free reign to do whatever they want with this.)
4.) Two pagan faiths start with Human Sacrifice. You've guessed one of them ;)


Female rulers should always try to arrange matrilineal marriages, yes. This is especially true in female-preference succession realms.


Just name, adjective, and adherent name. The rest will be inherited from your parent Faith.

Mods can make more extensive changes, but with 50+ localization fields per faith we did not want to expose all of them for direct player modification, it would be too overwhelming.


The latter. You should check out the previous Dev Diary, it explains all of this in detail.


It would be possible, it just currently is not set up that way for balance reasons. Mods could enable that functionality if you desire it, though.

Dynamic tenets changeable by events/councils sound perfect! Finally religion becomes fleshed out for the e.g. evolving Catholicism or Sunni Islam.
 
Will it be possible to convert back to a pagan religion if you are Christian or Muslim?

If so, how many pagan religions will be added? Only those who still had widespread practice such as Norse and Baltic paganism or will all paganism be able to be reborn, such as Greco-Roman or Celtic paganism?

What will be the conditions and consequences of returning Paganism?
They have said you can convert to any religion at any time, including dead religions.
 
To clarify, the base faith that the custom faith is splitting from in this picture had close-kin taboo, right?
Correct.
Will it be possible for you to change your faith but remain loyal to the previous religious head? For example another religious school under Sunni Islam, still loyal to the existing Caliph. Or to create Celtic Christianity that still recognizes the Pope in Rome and has fairly minor differences in penance practices. This could conceivably model the Great Schism where the leadership unity is specifically broken.
Not at launch, unfortunately. That is something we want to expand on in future patches.

Oooh? You can directly decide how your new religions followers are called?
That is gonna have some hilarious possibilites.
Yes, you can.

One question about the customization that I haven't seen asked is whether we can edit the 'god list' equivalent. You know, whether you could say swap out one 'High God' for another, or add another deity to the list of deities that pop up in random events or take one or more deities off the list. Maybe even the ability to edit the default flavor descriptions?
As a player you will not have the ability to directly edit the 'god list', though mods do have the ability to change or add them when editing Faiths.
 
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This looks really good. My questions:

-> Can I create a faith with identical tenets to another faith, but with different doctrines? Like could the catholicism-but-with-polygamy mentioned as an example still have the same tenets as regular catholicism?

-> Spiritual and temporal heads of faith have been confirmed so far. Will there also be an equivalent to autonomous leadership, and how would that work roughly?

-> Will there still be a cost associated with divorces if they are "always allowed" according to the faith?

-> Will the virtue/sin-status of character traits have an influence on how common these traits will be among the faithful? In the sense that people are more likely to develop virtuos traits than sinful traits?

-> Will custom faiths get a holy order?
 
Looks cool. I just hope it is not easy, casual thing for you to establish your own heresy and actually manage to survive and spread it, but rather a difficult challenge...
 
When looking at your own Faith’s tenets and doctrines, you will see a button at the bottom labeled ‘Create New Faith’. Clicking this button will open the Faith Creation window, which can be viewed at any time — even long before you have acquired the means to actually create a new Faith! This will allow you to play around with the different options and get a feel for what is possible, allowing you to set long-term goals for yourself.
+1, now I'll return to actually reading dev diary
 
Looks cool. I just hope it is not easy, casual thing for you to establish your own heresy and actually manage to survive and spread it, but rather a difficult challenge...
Well it is likely suboptimal way to play, like you waste alot of piety to create it and then have to spread the thing as well. Feel like it is more a way to add an extra challenge than being anything that is going to give you an advantage.
 
If so, how many pagan religions will be added? Only those who still had widespread practice such as Norse and Baltic paganism or will all paganism be able to be reborn, such as Greco-Roman or Celtic paganism?
Hellenism does not have any living followers represented in-game, but exists as a religion followed by dead rulers in history files, and can be converted to at great cost, as said in the prior dev diary. Celtic paganism is not-in-game as of the prior dev diary, with Kushistic (Basically, the religion of ancient Kush/Nubia, very very similar to the religion of Upper Egypt) being the closest we get to the Kemetic religion. Whether things like Mesopotamian, Basque, Arabic, Berber, or Kalash/Nuristanic Vedic polytheism are represented in-game as living or dead religions is as of yet unknown.

Naturally, if I'm wrong it'd be great to be corrected.
 
4.) Two pagan faiths start with Human Sacrifice. You've guessed one of them ;)
Aztecs being the other, of course :D
3.) The codebase can support this, but there will not be any in-game content for this on release. We plan on adding events/mechanics around this in the future (mods, of course, will also have free reign to do whatever they want with this.)
Ooh, excellent! I'd love to see councils added whenever the Investiture Crisis gets added into the game.
It would be possible, it just currently is not set up that way for balance reasons. Mods could enable that functionality if you desire it, though.
Is it possible to change holy sites dynamically in game, or are they locked in at the start of the game for vanilla?
Not at launch, unfortunately. That is something we want to expand on in future patches.
Would love to have that. It would be nice to be able to create a branch of a religion that isn't considered a full-on heresy, but merely a less popular approach to the true faith.
 
Oooh? You can directly decide how your new religions followers are called?
That is gonna have some hilarious possibilites.
His Holiness, Pope Naughtius Maximus has declared a Crusade against heathens of Kingdom of Italy.
It is time for the righteous fluffy kittens to take up arms and defeat infidels in the name of Sex Cult of Unyielding Fervor!
 
It's very interesting but I have 2 remarks:
  • Descriptions seems to be hard written to correspond to a certain faith, not very customization friendly (citing Quran or name of the faith), I hope I am wrong because fundamentalism could be applied to Christianity as well
  • Syncretism is a bit weird, it is when one faith is a mix of several.
    • Christians used Syncretism to "implement" local beliefs in Christianity, for example pagan gods becoming Saints, or pagan religious days such as yule being adopted and adapted to fit Christianity.
    • For this reason for me Syncretism should give bonuses to convert polytheisitics (or un reformed or pagans) counties and character (and why not small opinion buff or discount to adopt beliefs of pagans).
    • Actually while writing I think I didn't understood it the same way, you mean trying to syncretize Christians religion into one so it makes more sense
    • For clarity sake shouldn't it be called "Heresy tolerance" or "Abolishing the Schism"/"Uniting will" , because Catholicism didn't have Syncretism with orthodox or coptic, they instead splitted rather than mixing together. It is more the fact that they are willing to "syncretize" together that should be emphasized in the name.