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Dev Diary #21 - Custom Faiths and Pagan Reformation

Oh, hello there! Interested in becoming a heresiarch, are we? Or maybe you just want to organize your ancestor’s ancient spiritual traditions into a true reformed Faith, one that can stand up to the Crescent and Cross? Either way, you’ve come to the right place!

To start us off, I’m going to go into how the process of creating a new Faith or reforming a pagan one works. After that, there will be a teaser of some Tenets and Doctrines that you may be interested in picking for your newly-founded Faiths ;)

Faith Creation
Creating a new Faith is no easy task. Only the most pious rulers will be able to convince the clergy within their realm that they alone know the true will of the divine and, in doing so, take the first steps towards establishing a new Faith. However, with a little bit of devotion and a lot of time, you too will be able to reshape your Faith to suit your dynasty’s needs!

When looking at your own Faith’s tenets and doctrines, you will see a button at the bottom labeled ‘Create New Faith’. Clicking this button will open the Faith Creation window, which can be viewed at any time — even long before you have acquired the means to actually create a new Faith! This will allow you to play around with the different options and get a feel for what is possible, allowing you to set long-term goals for yourself.

DD_CreateAFaith_WM.png
[Screenshot of the Faith Creation window showing modified Tenets and Doctrines]

You can change every single Tenet and Doctrine of your hypothetical new Faith on this screen, though the list of what Tenets are available to pick varies from Religion to Religion. For example, Tenets based on the concept of Dharma are exclusive to Oriental Religions, whereas Monasticism was common practice and is thus available to everyone. This means when creating a new Faith, you must first ensure you are a member of the Religion that you want to base your new Faith off of.

Beyond simple availability, it is also easier for some Religions to accept certain Doctrines than others. For example, Islam is used to polyamory and will happily accept a new Faith espousing it. In contrast, a new Christian faith that claims God intended us to have multiple spouses will be met with a little more skepticism...

The way this plays out in CK3 is that each Tenet and Doctrine has a Piety cost associated with it. The further you deviate from your original Faith, the more Piety you will need in order to convince the priests that yes, you actually have had a vision from the divine and yes, you actually are enforcing their will and not just trying to make some weird personal sex cult.

DD_Cosanguinity_WM.png

[Screenshot of the scaling costs for the Cosanguinity Doctrine]

After you have made all the changes you want, you will be given the total amount of Piety your character needs in order to create their new Faith. This cost can get quite high, meaning that creating a new Faith or reforming a pagan one ends up being a life-long goal for most characters. It is highly recommended to attempt this with characters who have a Learning education and/or who have multiple Virtuous personality traits, and having the ability to go on frequent pilgrimages or donate gold & troops to holy causes helps too! Finally, timing your divine revelation to completely coincidentally occur when your Faith is suffering from low Fervor will make it much easier to get everyone to buy into your new canon (I will talk more about Fervor in our future Dev Diary on heresy outbreaks).

Once you are happy with your Tenets and Doctrines and have accumulated the necessary amount of Piety, you can officially convert to your new Faith. You and your capital county will adopt it immediately, but it won’t be easy for a ruler to convince their vassals and subjects to adopt this strange new Faith — they might be more inclined to stage an uprising and depose their mad king from the throne! After all, if you die before your new Faith gains a foothold in the world, there is a good chance your Faith will die with you…

Pagan Reformation
Pagan Faiths in Crusader Kings III start out with the special ‘Unreformed’ Doctrine.

This Doctrine grants notable bonuses to Tribal rulers early on, but it locks them into the Tribal government type and provides substantial Opinion penalties to any non-Tribal vassals they acquire. Since Tribal realms are notoriously unstable, successful chieftains will eventually want to look into either converting to a reformed religion so they can feudalize, or reforming their pagan religion into a true organized faith.

Like with Faith Creation, rulers must earn a substantial amount of Piety to organize their Faith’s disparate shamans into a coherent clergy. In addition, they must have at least 3 of their Faith’s holy sites located within their realm.

DD_VidilismHolySites_WM.png

[Screenshot showing 3 of the Vidilist Holy Sites]

Once you accomplish this, the process is quite similar to creating a new Faith of an existing reformed Religion. Your vassals may still be reluctant to convert to your newly reformed Faith, but because reformed Faiths gain a bonus to conversion against unreformed Faiths, you will have a much easier time convincing them to go along with your reformation than a heresiarch within in an existing Faith would have with making a new heresy.

DD_ReformationNew_WM.png

[Screenshot showing a Vidilist reformation event]

Tenet and Doctrine teaser

To finish this off, here are a few choice tenets and doctrines which you can pick when creating a new Faith in CK3. Many of these are also used by already existing Faiths, but some are only available to custom Faiths created by players. As you can see, there is a lot of variety in the kinds of custom Faiths you can create — ultimately every kind of playstyle should have some set of Tenets and Doctrines to support it!

DD_Tenet_Showcase_WM.png
[Screenshot of the Tenets Warmonger, Human Sacrifice, Ritual Cannibalism, Christian Syncretism, Dharmic Pacifism, Carnal Exaltation, Divine Marriage, Sacred Childbirth, and the Doctrines Pluralism and Fundamentalist]

That is all I have for you this week, but join us next time as my colleague @Heptopus talks about the diversity across the world in CK3 and the many different ways you can tailor the game experience to match your personal preferences!
 
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2. Reformed Paganism can occasionally have heresy outbreaks of 'Old Paganism'. Additional custom heresies do not currently exist (but could potentially be modded in).
Oh that's not good. Effectively that means that pagans don't have heresies at all. The old pagan faith is just too easy for the reformed version to convert. Can there at least be a set of pre-coded reformation options so each pagan faith can have proper heresies? That was a big balance issue with the power level of reformed pagans relative to the preexisting reformed religions.
 
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Sane people: this will be an interesting system for roleplay or min-maxing, depending on what I want.
Typical Crusader Kings players: Incest and cannibalism time!
Me: Deciding how to recreate that Lovecraftian Christian heresy from Cultist Simulator.
 
Oh that's not good. Effectively that means that pagans don't have heresies at all. They're just too easy to convert. Can there at least be a set of pre-coded reformation options so each pagan faith can have proper heresies? That was a big balance issue with the power level of reformed pagans relative to the preexisting reformed religions.

Well I would say, that as they split up some of the pagans it helps it a bit. The Tengri won't include the hungarians and I guess there are some smaller pagans and split (looking additionally at the african ones and probably also the finnish ones) help a huge blobbing of their religions. It could be a problem in the late game though, that is true. Especially as heresies are often creating turmoil within the nations and the reformed pagans won't have that (they have the early issue with the conversion of vassals etc. but not the late one).
 
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All I have to say is i hate reformation being tied to holy sites on the map. Why can't I reform my pagan religion into a syncretic half christian one if I invade italy or something?

There must be another way to gate reformation that doesn't tie you to locations on the map!
 
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1) How far can one push his/her custom Faith before it is no longer considered part of a given Religion/Religion Family (e.g. player changing a Christian Faith so much it is now considered a Faith of Pagan Religion/Religion Family by the rest of the world)? Is such "rebranding"/"drift" even possible?
2) How is Heresy now defined? In CK2 it was "less counties under its influence" than the "parent" Religion. Is it governed somehow by how others perceive the custom Faith ("Your old faith will consider you Hostile")?
3) Can a Heretical Faith "overtake" and "demote" another Faith/other Faiths to mere Heresies?
4) If a player creates a Faith by changing both Tenets and Doctrines and, some generations of rulers later, decides to fine-tune the Faith by modifying a Doctrine, will this result in a new Faith or a modification of the exisiting Faith? What is the borderline between modfiying the existing custom Faith and creating a "new" custom Faith?

14- Will there be a Game Rule that disables Pagan Reformation and another that disables Faith/Heresy creation, or will they be combined in two? Say I want to allow Faith/Heresy creation but not Pagan Reformation or the opposite, will this be allowed?
15- Is the AI allowed to do Pagan Reformation, or will there be a Game Rule for that? What about Faith creation?
Seconding this. Game Rules rule.:D
 
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This is a question that probably applies more to last week's diary, but I just thought of it now.

For faith tolerance, is there going to be an 'in communion' level—i.e., the faiths consider each other fully valid and characters of these faiths treat each other like they're of the same faith? It would be useful for simulating the state of the Catholic and Orthodox churches pre-schism.
 
This is a question that probably applies more to last week's diary, but I just thought of it now.

For faith tolerance, is there going to be an 'in communion' level—i.e., the faiths consider each other fully valid and characters of these faiths treat each other like they're of the same faith? It would be useful for simulating the state of the Catholic and Orthodox churches pre-schism.
This. Devs have to implemet this. It would make sense for the existance of Catholic and Orthodox Churches before 1056, since they would be for all intents and purposes the same faith, being in communion.

I also think there should be a mechanic in the game that enables the increase or decrease of ecumenism of certain faiths, so that one faith can become in communion with other, as in be considered one and the same, and another become an enemy, as in, the two utterly despise one another.

But what is interesting is how would fervor interact with faiths that are in communion with one another.
 
This is a question that probably applies more to last week's diary, but I just thought of it now.

For faith tolerance, is there going to be an 'in communion' level—i.e., the faiths consider each other fully valid and characters of these faiths treat each other like they're of the same faith? It would be useful for simulating the state of the Catholic and Orthodox churches pre-schism.
Might be better as "accepted" than "in communion" since the latter might be confused with the tenet.
 
One of the things that I always found a bit annoying with playing pegans in CKII is that the holy book was always labeled as "The Legends". Could I ask you to consider adding the name of the holy book as an editable field during reformation?
Alternatively, how difficult would it be to add this as a feature using mods without breaking localization?
 
Every single dev diary I read about CK3 so far had me drooling and being more hyped than before. This is amazing. Everything I wanted from a CK3 (on the topics so far) and more things I didn't know I wanted!
 
All I have to say is i hate reformation being tied to holy sites on the map. Why can't I reform my pagan religion into a syncretic half christian one if I invade italy or something?

There must be another way to gate reformation that doesn't tie you to locations on the map!
I agree there should be an exception for synchronisation in a couple of circumstances.

First is if a pagan ruler wants to partially adopt their neighbor's religion, which uses a more baseline reformation system but restricts what doctrines you can take. So you must pick the synchronisation tenant of a neighboring religion and cannot deviate from the two parent religion's doctrines. In this case, you'd be a heresy of your original religion.

Second is for dynamic heresies. Specifically for wrong religion provinces and neo-paganism. One of those provinces adopts a heresy of the top liege's faith that has the synchronisation tenant of the province's old religion/faith (or original pagan faith). The rest of the tenants and doctrines are a mix of the two parent faiths. This then spreads to other counties in the same realm of the synchronised religion and is a mixed blessing. On one hand, the wrong faith/religion penalties won't be as strict as the new heresy will be the same religion as the owner. On the other hand, it's much harder to convert these provinces. Especially if it was a pagan faith that's self synchronised.
 
That character screenshot... Wow, that looks good! A lot better than most others I have seen. Have you been working on character vicuals and clothing mr. paradox?
 
It's a good thing that lawful revocation of infidels is tied to religion rather than law, meaning a clear distinction between pluralist & fundamentalist tenants.
In CK2 using Holy Wars with Islam, the vassalization could just be circumvented by revoking everyone after winning as long as you had religious revocation. Which in itself, is simply annoying rather than a layer of difficulty.

Also, has the amount of stillbirths and and other birth related complications been dramatically increased in order to make Sacred Childbirth a viable option?
I hope so. I can see why they did it the way they did in CK2, but historically the mortality rate for babies & young children was pretty high, even among the upper classes.
 
Two pagan faiths start with Human Sacrifice. You've guessed one of them ;)
There should be at least three at the start, Norse, Slavic and Baltic. Obodrites and Lutici were sacrificing Christian prisoners (John, Bishop of Mecklenburg was sacrificed in Rethra), also Prussians were sacrificing Christian knights.
 
So just wondering about my favorite obscure religion in Ck2, will Yazidism be considered its own religion outside of Islam in Ck3? It always seemed strange to me after doing some research on the religion with it being considered a Sunni heresy in Ck2.

Thanks for everything! Can't wait for more Crusades!