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Dev Diary #44 - Battles

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Ave and welcome to another Dev Diary! Today I will be talking about how Battles work and what their consequences are. If you haven't already, I suggest you first read through the dev diary on Fronts and get acquainted with the concepts explained there.

Let's start off with a somewhat updated version of the Front panel. Do note that this is all still very much WIP and not all values are hooked in, balanced or polished. For example at the moment there are a lot more deaths in battles than there should be.

Who could’ve seen this war coming?

DD44 01.png


In order for a battle to happen one side must have at least one General with an Advance order. Once this happens an advancement meter will slowly start to fill up and once it’s full a new battle will be launched. Various factors can increase or decrease the time it takes.

When the battle is created a sequence of actions unfolds before the fighting begins. All of these are in script and can be tweaked by mods as desired.
  • The attacker picks their leading General
  • The defender picks their leading General
  • The battle province is determined along the frontline
  • The attacker determines the number of units they can bring
  • The defender determines the number of units they can bring
  • Both sides selects their units
While there can be several Generals on the Front, only one is selected for each side in a Battle. They are not limited to selecting their own units and so may borrow additional ones from other Generals or the local Garrisons.

In addition each side randomizes a Battle Condition which provides bonuses (or penalties) to their units similar to Combat Tactics in Hearts of Iron 4. Unlike HOI4 though these are fixed for the duration of the battle. For example a General with the Engineer trait has a higher chance of selecting the “Dug In” Battle Condition which provides defensive modifiers.

Königgrätz anyone?
DD44 02.png


Now the shooting (and dying) finally starts! The battle takes place over a number of rounds and will continue until one side is either wiped out or retreats. The round sequence is roughly as follows:
  • Each side determines how many fighting-capable men it still has
  • Each side inflicts casualties on the other side
  • Each side attempts to recover wounded casualties
  • Each side also suffers morale damage according to casualties
  • If one side is wiped or retreats, the battle ends

Units have two primary combat values: Offense is used when attacking and Defense is used when defending. It is wise to plan ahead and specialize your armies for the war you are planning to fight. There are of course a whole bunch of additional modifiers used in conjunction with battles.

Crack open the fortress of Liège!
DD44 03.png


Casualties are determined by both sheer numbers and the relative combat stats between the two sides. For example a numerically inferior force equipped with more modern weapons may still emerge victorious against a larger foe.

When a side takes casualties it is randomly distributed amongst its units with some caveats.
Each unit has a majority culture depending on the pops in its barracks and casualties are applied roughly in proportion to unit culture. So with 4 French/1 Flemish units fighting on the same side the French will take roughly 80% of the casualties.

Not all pops who take casualties will end up dead though. A portion of these may instead end up as Dependents of other pops. After a long bloody war a nation may thus end up with a large number of wounded war-veterans who need to be supported by the rest of the population. In the long term this may be a cause of unrest and financial strain on the economy.

Morale damage is inflicted in proportion to the casualties and will slowly recover over time outside of battles presuming the units are in good supply.

One step closer to Unification
DD44 04.png


After the battle is over two things will happen:

A number of provinces are Captured depending on how decisive the victory was, unit characteristics, Generals, etc. This will alter the frontline and the winner will occupy those provinces until retaken or the end of the war.
A victorious defender will only take back land that was previously lost to the enemy while a victorious attacker will push into enemy land and take control of more provinces owing to their aggressive posture.

Devastation is also inflicted on the State in which the battle was fought. Large, brutal battles waged with modern weaponry will increase the devastation caused. It reduces infrastructure and building throughput, increases mortality and causes emigration. These effects persist after the war and will take quite some time to recover.

That’s it for this week! Next week we switch over to the political battlefield and discuss Elections! *ducks back into the trenches*
 
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CountAccountant said:
I'm excited by what I'm hearing so far. The inability to micro my way to victory in a bad war raises the stakes of diplomatic plays and keeps the focus on the strategic layer. It reminds me a bit of Lincoln's role in the American Civil War - absolutely critical to the effort, but uninvolved with the minutiae of the campaign.

One piece of feedback - the war dev diaries have focused a lot on the mechanics of the war system itself. And that's important! But often I struggle to understand how I fit into this as a player. What are the critical decisions I am making? What are the consequences of those decisions? Or alternatively, what were the key decisions I made earlier that influenced the outcome? I think sometimes it comes across that war is almost an automated process and that perception is selling the benefits of your new system short.
Click to expand...
The very first war dev diary covered this. You, as you say, are making the critical decisions at the strategic level. You're picking the generals, you're deciding which barracks to call up the troops from, you're making sure the war is being funded and the economy and infrastructure of the country is staying strong enough to supply the soldiers at the front, and you're keeping up diplomacy with other powers so the country doesn't get bogged down in another incident while it's being distracted by the ongoing war.
 
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KaiserJohan said:
Casualties are determined by both sheer numbers and the relative combat stats between the two sides. For example a numerically inferior force equipped with more modern weapons may still emerge victorious against a larger foe.
Click to expand...

How will aircraft factor into battles? I would think they have special properties, so that a guy with a Musket or rifle can't shoot them out of the sky, like shooting a guy off of a horse. Do they have special modifiers, or something else?

Also, how are tanks represented?

Is trench warfare and/or chemical warfare represented?
 
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wilcoxchar said:
This isn't HOI4. Or Reddit. People need to stop obsessing over encirclements.
Click to expand...
Actual military leaders have been tripping over themselves trying to pull off the perfect encirclement/double envelopment since cannae.
 
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Good, but can these generals surrender in the battle or be captured by enemy arms?
For example, if our general is more experienced or we surround the enemy, their general should not be able to escape. This part kinda like crusader kings, but I think it will be fun if you add it.
 
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How often does a war take more than one battle? If 2 even sides are at war, and there is a battle at the beginning with all troops taking part, is the war effectively over? Is there any reasonable chance of the losing side recouping and pulling off some defense in depth etc?
 
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N35t0r said:
So in a hypothetical US-Canada war, will the front have battles on one point at a time?

Maybe have the chance of a battle happening be proportional to the (sum of) infrastructure along the whole front?
Click to expand...

Expanding on this, when the front is that wide, and since wider fronts tend to have larger battles, will we see massive battles over Alberta despite the complete lack of infrastructure? Will the terrain for the battle be decided randomly among the entire front or based on the wargoal? If I have a front spanning the desert, will I likely have to fight in the desert despite having no goals to take there?

Second, is the "advancement progress" affected by the ratio of "number of units" / "number of provinces" or something like that? If I assign 100 units to the US-Canada front, or 1000 units, how does that affect progress? I imagine having more people on the frontline increases the chances for advancement on several "fronts" at once, so the number of battles should be more frequent in a densely populated front than in a sparsely populated front. Say that Russia is fighting Germany, with both sending their main armies, but Russia is also fighting Manchuria on a second front with much less strength. Technically the front size is the same, but there should be more battles on the European front than the Asian front no?
 
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Quick question but since it is mentioned that "an advancement meter will slowly start, to fill up and once it’s full a new battle will be launched" is it possible for multiple battles along a front trigger simultaneously? I.e. the battle of Verdun continuing for 303 days (below the sun! /sabaton) doesn't lock up the rest of the western front during a WW1-type scenario? Or is that while that battle rages another can be triggered as well, which can only draw from a reduced set of units.

Also, can/will battles be reinforced over time if they drag on long enough?
 
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I actually don’t mind this new system, mainly due to the fact that the economy will be complicated enough to manage. I don’t want to have to micro-manage 100 divisions at the same time.
 
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Techadept said:
And the politics. And Diplomacy. All with seemingly more choices for the player than actual warfare ("3 buttons") which has been criticized from the get go.
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yes. and is the last bit supposed to mean something?
 
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KaiserJohan said:
1. As long as the other generals are stationed at the front and not in battle their units may be borrowed like the garrisons.
2. Beyond giving the generals their orders the movements of the front & battles is largely automated.
Click to expand...

Thanks for replying.
  1. Understand infrastructure calculations may not be doable because of design decisions or other factors; but I think a province distance modify could help prevent troops being borrowed over great distances.
  2. Are there any factors that play into what troops are borrowed?
    1. If my Virginia regiment just fought a battle in their province, could they be borrowed for a battle occurring a week later in Tennessee?
 
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Not a fan personally but then I'm a masochist who wants control over everything from politics to the economy to the military for maximum micro of all things like Vic2. I'm gonna keep an open mind and give it a try but based on all the stuff you guys have shown so far and stuff that has appeared from the leak this def seems like the weakest part of the game.
 
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wilcoxchar said:
You, as you say, are making the critical decisions at the strategic level
Click to expand...
Critical strategic decisions like "go" or "stop," wow
You're picking the generals, you're deciding which barracks to call up the troops from,
Click to expand...
From the sound of the dev diary you don't have any control over which general and what troops are fighting in any particular battle, the game just grabs some at random.
you're making sure the war is being funded and the economy and infrastructure of the country
Click to expand...
Max out taxes day one and maybe set up a trade route for guns, very deep
 
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No Stockpiles Lmao said:
Critical strategic decisions like "go" or "stop," wow

From the sound of the dev diary you don't have any control over which general and what troops are fighting in any particular battle, the game just grabs some at random.

Max out taxes day one and maybe set up a trade route for guns, very deep
Click to expand...
Maxes out taxes day 1.
The entire country revolts.
Gee, wonder why?
 
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Could we get a confirmation that morale is like in previous games, where it going to 0 is THE determiner on whether an army retreats from a battle? Or could the ai decide to retreat earlier? Will morale affect combat effectiveness of battalions?
 
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