Dev Diary #90 - Splendid Scandinavia

[Aurelio123]

Alps? There are no pagans there in within CK2 timeline, if I am not mistaken.
But nevermind, after all Catholic is also a main part of Holy Fury.

(By the way, I am truly looking forward to new provinces in West Africa)

Whats west africa? Im pretty sure its called "Ummayad Backyard"

 

[CoSMoS]

Really liking the improvements! A few comments on a couple Danish provinces:

Is it possible that the Danish county of Varde could become Ribe instead? Ribe is the oldest existing town in Scandinavia and is just so much more historically significant compared to Varde. Varde just seems really out of place to me as a Dane. A holding, sure, but not a whole county.

Skagen sticks out as well. It's never been more than a very small town only known for being the one furthest to the north. I'd prefer Vendsyssel (the area) over Skagen any day.

The most important towns and seats of power in Jutland within the CK2 timeframe are arguably Jelling, Ribe, Viborg and Aalborg. Just something to consider.

Came here exactly to write something like this. I absolutely love the new maps, but the names of some of the new Danish provinces seem a bit random and could use some fine-tuning. If you are going to go with naming the province after a major town then especially Ribe>Varde seems like an obvious change, even though Ribe would be at the very edge of the new province. It's just way more important than Varde. Anyway, the new maps look fantastic for sure!

 

[Dragonsploof]

Le Ireland rework when.

 

[Leivve]

Meh, cutting up the map is ruining my playstyle of small and tall. anyway I can go back to the old map, but still use the new DLC and patch features?

How does fixing borders or even adding provinces hurt your ability to play tall? If anything, it encourages you to play tall more, since you'll need a larger personal power base to maintain control since vassals will be having those extra territories.

 

[NaiveCarto]

Scandinavia will be too OP compared with other corners in CK, I dont like so many provs and too strong Scandinavia.



However,,,,
Smells very good. （真香！）

 

[Conqueristo]

Any map updates for far northern Norway (Lappland/Sami)?

 

[mudcrabmerchant]

Unless the holdings per province are drastically reduced this will just make Scandinavia even more OP in relation to its real life population, wealth, and manpower.

 

[Whisper9000]

I always like seeing the map updates more than most things.

 

[Voy]

Any chance the Jarls of Lade will be added to Norway? So far there are only two of them (rulers of Naumadal), and that's where it ends. Weren't they rather important in the history of Norway, including Haakon Sigurdasson, who even ruled Norway (not as king, but still)?

The Lade Jarls have been split into two dynasties. The other is called Mule although they're all dead by 1066. There are some linked marriages to that dynasty though so you could look at it. They're missing the third Lade Jarl entirely.

 

[Thure]

Really liking the improvements! A few comments on a couple Danish provinces:

Is it possible that the Danish county of Varde could become Ribe instead? Ribe is the oldest existing town in Scandinavia and is just so much more historically significant compared to Varde. Varde just seems really out of place to me as a Dane. A holding, sure, but not a whole county.

Skagen sticks out as well. It's never been more than a very small town only known for being the one furthest to the north. I'd prefer Vendsyssel (the area) over Skagen any day.

The most important towns and seats of power in Jutland within the CK2 timeframe are arguably Jelling, Ribe, Viborg and Aalborg. Just something to consider.

It's been a little while since I played. When the three Scandinavian kingdoms are christened and have their own cultures, are they still called "Danmark, Norge and Sweden"? That REALLY bothered me.

Came here exactly to write something like this. I absolutely love the new maps, but the names of some of the new Danish provinces seem a bit random and could use some fine-tuning. If you are going to go with naming the province after a major town then especially Ribe>Varde seems like an obvious change, even though Ribe would be at the very edge of the new province. It's just way more important than Varde. Anyway, the new maps look fantastic for sure!

Ehem... Varde makes more sense than Ribe. There was the Vardesyssel. So it couldn't be that unimportant during the middle ages if it was the center of a syssel.

https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vardesyssel

The province pretty much IS Vardesyssel.

Also, based on the river, Ribe would be inside Slesvig.

 

[Orphalesion]

T. However, one can always have backup conditions for a flavor event. Heck, Norwegians missed the opportunity? Then the Irish really do populate it! Or the Scottish, Welsh, Anglo-Saxons, or even one of the other Norse countries. Opens a lot of more interesting possibilities and end-results than just another intrigue-screen decision to be taken to force a real-world event. Then again, I've always been a huge fan of dynamic possibilities and non-guaranteed events.

Well yeah, I also prefer things to be dynamic and non-forced which is why I was against the idea of every single playthrough having a "tyrannical Norwegian ruler" that causes the settlement of Iceland, since that would railroad quite a bit (basically securing Harald Fairfair's success and harsh taxes in the Viking Age start date?)

I would be interested in something like all North-Atlantic/Scandinavian having a chance to, perhaps, generate an adventurer after the year 850 that sails to and takes possession of Iceland, giving their formr liege a claim on it. Maybe if the player is the one to spawn the adventurer they could even gain iceland and the adventurer as a new vassal if they chose to aid his campaign with resources and manpower.

I think the problem with the colonization thing is that the game doesn't handle provinces that aren't owned by anyone? In the case of Iceland they could solve that with mythology. In the Nibelung Saga Iceland is the domain of the Valkyrie Brunhildr. So before the Settlement of Iceland Brunhildr could be set as the immortal ruler of Iceland, with the local culture being "Valkyries".
Now this would not serve to introduce a fantasy element but to reflect the ideas of the local people at the time. In this scenario you wouldn't actually be able to interact with this supposed Valkyrie Queen and vice versa, she wouldn't be playable, would be impossible to to go war with, she'd just be a place holder with some nice flavour and the moment that adventurer settles Iceland there is a message to the effect of "The Valkyries are a lie!" with a chance to give your character the "Cynical" trait (or lose the Zealous trait) if they are Norse Pagan, Brynhildr and the Valkyrie culture would disappear and replaced by the Adventurer and populations of his culture.

Of course, this also might just be too much effort for too little gain, would just produce the problem that players would start demanding for Brynhildr and the Valkyrie culture to be made playable and I'm not sure whether the Vikings still thought Iceland was home to Valkyries during that age, because I think they had already explored parts of it.

So at this point you might as well go with those Irish monks, but the culture flip should still happen, since a handful of celibate, Irish monks wouldn't be the dominant culture over whomever else decides to conquer Iceland...

 

[Roy Rogers McFreely]

Ehem... Varde makes more sense than Ribe. There was the Vardesyssel. So it couldn't be that unimportant during the middle ages if it was the center of a syssel.

https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vardesyssel

The province pretty much IS Vardesyssel.

Also, based on the river, Ribe would be inside Slesvig.

The earliest mention of Varde is from 1107 whereas Ribe is already documented in sources as far back as 854. Ribe Cathedral is the first Christian church in Scandinavia. The Diocese of Ribe is central to the history of Denmark and Scandinavia, and Ribe was an important trading hub as well.

Look through all the sysler. There's a lot of names noone would recognise. Not saying that Varde is insignificant, but there's just no comparing it with Ribe.

I do agree that the map is sort of tricky with the river, but Ribe isn't considered a part of Slesvig/Sønderjylland.

 

[JSparks101]

It may well just be me, but compared to the other overhauled areas, the new provinces feel slightly clunky and the shapes don't seem to fit properly.

Just to clarify, I love the other bits so far, but this looked like it was pre-update.

I work on an EU4 mod where we redraw the exact borders over and over till we get the right shapes and it looks okay.

Either way, I do appreciate an update to the map!

 

[TheDungen]

This is really nice as someone who's played a lot in Norway and Scotland I can really agree these places need more provinces. But it does come with the risk of these kingdoms becoming to powerful perhaps they should come with a modifier which lowers their income due to low populatuon. And certain high poulation provinces could get one which raises theirs further. That way we can increase province density without regions with lowpopulation becoming to powerful.

Also will the four provinces of Iceland have the four guardians of Iceland in their respective coa?

 

[Managott]

Now that we talk about Scandinavia...the Region could also use some new provinces in eu4.

 

[otti_]

i'm no expert on Icelandic topography, but shouldn't there be an impassable mountain range between Norðland and Suðurland? this route is barely accesible even today.

I'd disagree, it was reasonably passable throughout most of the medieval period until they "forgot" how to due to an increase in superstition about trolls and other supernatural entities living in the highlands. In several Icelandic sagas they travel through the highlands to hurry to þingvellir, the reason it's so hard to traverse nowadays is that uneven terrain, harsh weather in the summer, even worse weather in the summer and no population centers nearby makes creating or maintaining any road a difficult task.

View attachment 386481
Far to the north-west, Iceland has been updated a little bit as well. We have increased the province count from 2 to 4, though knowing that Iceland was far from the most populated of places, we have made sure that they haven’t gotten too strong.

I hope you are modeling the differences in average weather between north and south as there are quite significant weather differences for a country of this size and give the land appropriate holding slots our estimated medieval population of around 50.000 and the lands capability to sustain up to around 80.000 people

Iceland will be settled by Irish monks in 769. When the Viking Age starts, all the vikings will get a new decision to settle Iceland.

I'm not so sure about Iceland being settled by Irish monks in the 769 start date, the only direct evidence of Papars living on Iceland is from the Íslendingabók, written about 250 years (1122-1133 AD) after Norsemen settled Iceland. Dicuils (Early of 9th century) only mentions holy men heading north and there is no archaeological evidence of the Papar living on Iceland, however it is VERY likely that there were Norsemen on Iceland before 870 as there have been finds of cabins (Believed to be Norse, not Papar) and such built well before 870. As such I believe that keeping Iceland Norse in 769 is correct however with significant penalties to garrisons, tax, and levies as the main bulk of settlers didn't come until around 870

For a source for people on Iceland 100-200 years before 871 (unfortunately all in Icelandic)
http://raunvisindastofnun.hi.is/sites/raunvisindastofnun.hi.is/files/rh-16-2011_1.pdf
http://www.academia.edu/27941696/Hvenær_varð_landnám_manna_á_Íslandi_On_dating_of_colonisation_

 

[Tadeus72]

Love most of the changes, but dividing the mountain line is kind of meh. There aren't many terrain features in the game that are meaningful to gameplay, and there will be even less after that.

 

[Slime99]

Can we see the cultural/religious map?
Also, Finnmark should be Saami to the end of the game, ATM it turns norwegian in 1066 while in EU4 it magically turns back to Saami, which is kinda weird

 

[TheDungen]

This is really nice as someone who's played a lot in Norway and Scotland I can really agree these places need more provinces. But it does come with the risk of these kingdoms becoming to powerful perhaps they should come with a modifier which lowers their income due to low populatuon. And certain high poulation provinces could get one which raises theirs further. That way we can increase province density without regions with lowpopulation becoming to powerful.

Also will the four provinces of Iceland have the four guardians of Iceland in their respective coa?

What I mean is that three holding slots with a 33% modifier is a lot more exciting than one holding provinces.
Especially since you can increase the number if holdings in any province to 7 anyway so just having few Inital holdings is not enough to not make more provinces a buff to a region.

 

[TheDungen]

Yay! Rogue Dev Diary!

Also did you guys get rid of Alfheimr or did it just get an additional, alternate name with Baahuslen?

I always liked how Sigurd Hring was married to Alfhildr av Alfheim, daughter of Alfr av Aflheim. So many Elves

Pretty sure the Alf in Alfheimr is related to the word Älv. A river, of which many meet the sea in that very region. For an exempel you have Älvsborg which guards the mouth of Götaälv. So Alfheimr is not the home of elves it's the home of rivers. Well atleast the Alfheimr in western Sweden. The mythological lljosalfheimr is indeed the home the elves.

Would it be worth adding a "Kingdom of Gotaland" to the southern half of Sweden for the first half of the game? I'm going by Wikipedia here, but I see a few entries noting that the southern area was considered a distinct realm until the Late Middle Ages, plus both Sweden and Denmark used the title of "King of the Goths" for centuries. Could make things more interesting, especially if a Geatish player can conquer Svealand instead of the other way around and completely change the look of Scandinavia...

Well there was no United king of Götaland, but just because there never was was one in reality doesn't mean that there couldn't be one in an alternate history.

Because I guess it would really not pay off to implement colonization mechanics just for 4 counties in Iceland.
Also, that flavour event about a "tyrannical Norwegian ruler" is problematic for two reasons:
1)What if the player is King of Norway and his character is extraordinarily kind and merciful to his subjects?
2)What if the AI rulers of Norway are kind and merciful to their subjects?

Harald Fairhair won't exist/survive long enough in the vast majority of playthroughs to have his "harsh taxes" be the reason for the migration of a large number of people to Iceland.

I was under the impression that it was the whole unification thing they were sceptical of.