Dev Diary #90 - Splendid Scandinavia

[Thure]

Well there was no United king of Götaland, but just because there never was was one in reality doesn't mean that there couldn't be one in an alternate history.

Ehem...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_of_the_Geats

 

[TheDungen]

Ehem...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_of_the_Geats

Those are all either kings of Västergötland or Östergötland or mythical. Hence the statement that there were no kings of a united Götaland.

The only kings of Götaland are svear götar och vänders konungar. That's the formal title of the kings of Sweden.

That said I am not opposed to the title of king of Götaland being in the game on the contrary I modded it in myself long ago. I went with the lion on a field of white and blue from the grand Swedish crest for its COA. It represents götaland.

 

[C4st1gator]

I see that the alpine region will get a rework. This will hopefully make the borders in the Switzerland/Savoy/Lombardy/Tyrol region more feasible and allow holy roman emperors to properly cross the alps, when travelling to rome. There may also be interesting changes to the shape of Bavaria?

After you are done there, can you turn your attention to the area between the Alps and Denmark? With the updates to all the neighbouring areas, the german province borders still look like they are drawn with little care, which will only become more apparent when all neighbouring provinces look amazing.

And Köln is still on the wrong bank of the Rhine.
I have been stating these things repeatedly, but the Rhein-Main area rivergore makes it even more apparent.

Then there's Niedersachsen (Lower Saxony in game d_brunswick). Did you guys know, that Celle is 120 kilometres south of Hamburg? Compare this with c_celle ingame. In EU IV that place is occupied by Stade. Then there's Bremen. The City is here. The province is placed due to Bremerhaven?(Bremerhaven was founded in 1827. Bremen was using the river Weser to connect with the sea. When Ships became too large for the Weser the City of Bremen bought the land to retain its sea trade.)
Maybe this 1235 map may help?

Is this an engine thing? can there be non-contiguous provinces, or does it crash the game?

There's also minor issues. The Altmark is largely in the right place, but borders seem odd. Is this 1320 map helpful?

I understand the map is huge and you can't do all things at once. I'm also impressed with the changes you already made. Interesting things happened in Holstein. But as stated at the beginning, the map area looks odd when compared to the neighbouring regions and the Holy Roman Empire is not a fringe region.

 

[Orphalesion]

Pretty sure the Alf in Alfheimr is related to the word Älv. A river, of which many meet the sea in that very region. For an exempel you have Älvsborg which guards the mouth of Götaälv. So Alfheimr is not the home of elves it's the home of rivers. Well atleast the Alfheimr in western Sweden. The mythological lljosalfheimr is indeed the home the elves.

I see you removed the part where you claimed that Alfr wasn't an Old Norse word for Elf, so i do not correct you on that.
Though you are right in that there was a difference between Älv (River) and Alfr (Elf), though it has also been suggested that there is a connection with old Nordic elves possibly being imagined as river/water spirits at one point (though from what I know that's mostly speculation)
And yes it's possible for the historic Alfheimr to eithe rmean Elfhome or River Home, but as I wrote I just liked how Sigurd has a wife named Alfhildr, daughter of Chief Alfr of Alfheim. Theme naming

I was under the impression that it was the whole unification thing they were sceptical of.

It's said Harald Fairhair created taxes that were particularly harsh on farmers, which inspired many to colonize Iceland.
But even if we take the unification as the catalyst...that wouldn't really change the problem....do you want the unlocking of Iceland to be tied on the creation of k_norway, which might or might not ever happen during any particular playthrough? What if Norway unites ridiculously quickly? Does iceland get colonized in 790 in such a case or do those "refugees" wait until almost a hundred years later to decide that they don't wanna live in a unified, prosperous Norway?

 

[Aztlantix]

yep, thats HIP

 

[Serenity84]

I have been stating these things repeatedly, but the Rhein-Main area rivergore makes it even more apparent.

Yes please fix that if you're already touching Bavaria. The Main river dips far too much south in the east. It's supposed to go through Würzburg. And its origin is well above Nürnberg. On the map, the province of Bamberg would be fine for it

 

[Salix]

Liubice/Lübeck should be slavic as should be holstein in the earliest start date and even longer and not belong to Saxony. The saxon needed a long time to win against the Wagrier.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagrier#/media/File:SiedlungsgebieteSchleswig-HolsteinText.png

 

[yezhanquan]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I vaguely recall that for all the map adjustments with new counties, the number of holdings will be reworked for existing provinces?

 

[crowdemon]

A rogue development diaries, I hope you don't get to find out.
Beside the Alps for next week, will there be anymore mapped changes during the summer break?

 

[Ruwaard]

Liubice/Lübeck should be slavic as should be holstein in the earliest start date and even longer and not belong to Saxony. The saxon needed a long time to win against the Wagrier.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagrier#/media/File:SiedlungsgebieteSchleswig-HolsteinText.png

I agree with Liubice, but not with Holstein. The position of the Saxons was only weakened there after the conquest by Charlemagne, who was allied with the nearby Wends against the Saxons. Moreover your map supports a three way split, between Saxons, Wagrier and Danes.

 

[Orphalesion]

I agree with Liubice, but not with Holstein. The position of the Saxons was only weakened there after the conquest by Charlemagne, who was allied with the nearby Wends against the Saxons. Moreover your map supports a three way split, between Saxons, Wagrier and Danes.

In fact, that map, when compared to the in-game map would place no Slavic people within the county of Slesvig, but would only make a case for it being Danish (which it already is, being Norse, since Danish doesn't exist early on).
The map only shows the Slavic peoples being in Lubice (which is already Slavic) and maybe the easternmost quarter of Hollstein, with the bulk of the Slavic population being in the county of Lubeck (talking in-game counties here)....
So I don't think anything needs to be changed...

 

[Ursul]

A most welcomed surprise!
I just finished a gotland campaing and I found that this new arrangements (and this de jure duchy!) would have made it much more enjoyable. I migth just do it again for holy fury, beside, I need to try these new pagan features so...

 

[Count Hasimir Fenring]

So the Swedes are off frollicking in the fields while the Norwegians and Danes do all the work, eh?

 

[Harassercat]

Regarding Iceland:

1. All borders should be passable. Yes it's very rough terrain but historically there was lots of travel across the middle, especially in the middle ages.
2. There is no proof of Irish monks in Iceland accepted by the mainstream academic community. Most of those "proofs" were from early 20th century Icelandic archaeologists who were eager to prove old myths. Their methodology and conclusions do not meet modern standards of archaeology. Carbon dating indicating very early settlement is also highly controversial and at best inconclusive proof.
3. However the academic community remains open to an earlier settlement scenario and can't exclude anything, Irish monks included. Some ongoing excavations might push the time of settlement a bit back, but it's too early to conclude so.
4. So, as a PhD student of Icelandic history I don't really have a big objection to Irish monks in CK2 769. It's just a game. As long as people understand that's based on myths, no proven facts. Actually most people won't understand that but fine, whatever.

 

[Voidlord]

So the Swedes are off frollicking in the fields while the Norwegians and Danes do all the work, eh?

More like watching they where watching themselves get beat by England in the World Cup I think...
*runs away*

 

[Serenity84]

Unless they develop an entirely new terra incognita mechanic, Iceland has to be settled by someone. Irish is a lot better than Norse in that context

 

[DahndI]

As most of the team enjoys the summer, I thought I’d try to write a couple of smaller rogue Dev Diaries to get us through the summer. I will mostly discuss smaller additions, rather than the big sweeping features in these Diaries.

For the first one, it seems the vikings have pillaged a cartographer and found some more defined maps of their own homes, of all things.

We will start with the most important of the viking Kingdoms, Norway. What is that? What do you mean Norway stopped being a Kingdom in the late Middle Ages? Sounds like Swedish and Danish propaganda to me, they are just jealous of our mountainous glory.

View attachment 386480

The previous map of Norway always had certain issues with the western coast being quite the slog to move through, and the Kingdom feeling split by the mountain range. With a bit more definition to it, as well as a way to move between the two parts, we have found the region to be a lot more interesting of a place to hang out. In mainland Norway, 6 New Provinces and 2 New Duchies have been added.

View attachment 386481

Far to the north-west, Iceland has been updated a little bit as well. We have increased the province count from 2 to 4, though knowing that Iceland was far from the most populated of places, we have made sure that they haven’t gotten too strong.

View attachment 386482

In Sweden, we have increased the definition of southern Sweden somewhat, breaking up some of the provinces to try to show the relevance of the Geatish areas. This should hopefully help somewhat in rivaling the powerhouse of Uppland. 6 New Provinces and 1 New Duchy have been added in Sweden.

View attachment 386483

And finally, in Denmark we have new pathway across the islands and added Lolland as its own island. Both Jylland and Holstein has been split up and reorganised somewhat, to increase the definition of these areas and show their relevance in the era. In all, there has been 5 New Provinces added and 2 New Duchies.

We hope these changes to Scandinavia will be an interesting addition to all of the updates made to Pagans in Holy Fury, and make certain parts of the region a better experience. Next week, we will take a look down south, towards the changes around the Alps.

The Westcoast of Jutland hardly deserves a separate county. The only noteworthy thing that area ever spawned is inbred christian cultists and for many years their only occupation was fishing and luring ships aground with fake lighthouses.

 

[Lord Cuddlesworth]

I have to say, I am becoming ever more excited for this DLC as the diaries continue. I'll certainly have to revisit my idea for an Icelandic Merchant Republic now!

 

[Prometheus_1]

Next week, we will take a look down south, towards the changes around the Alps.

Yeah Finally ... Italy needs a more granular representation of its regions .
Thankyou.

 

[Thure]

1. So, as a PhD student of Icelandic history I don't really have a big objection to Irish monks in CK2 769. It's just a game. As long as people understand that's based on myths, no proven facts. Actually most people won't understand that but fine, whatever.

Not worse than overpowered Ragnar Lodbrok.