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Dev Diary #90 - Splendid Scandinavia

As most of the team enjoys the summer, I thought I’d try to write a couple of smaller rogue Dev Diaries to get us through the summer. I will mostly discuss smaller additions, rather than the big sweeping features in these Diaries.

For the first one, it seems the vikings have pillaged a cartographer and found some more defined maps of their own homes, of all things.

We will start with the most important of the viking Kingdoms, Norway. What is that? What do you mean Norway stopped being a Kingdom in the late Middle Ages? Sounds like Swedish and Danish propaganda to me, they are just jealous of our mountainous glory.

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The previous map of Norway always had certain issues with the western coast being quite the slog to move through, and the Kingdom feeling split by the mountain range. With a bit more definition to it, as well as a way to move between the two parts, we have found the region to be a lot more interesting of a place to hang out. In mainland Norway, 6 New Provinces and 2 New Duchies have been added.

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Far to the north-west, Iceland has been updated a little bit as well. We have increased the province count from 2 to 4, though knowing that Iceland was far from the most populated of places, we have made sure that they haven’t gotten too strong.

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In Sweden, we have increased the definition of southern Sweden somewhat, breaking up some of the provinces to try to show the relevance of the Geatish areas. This should hopefully help somewhat in rivaling the powerhouse of Uppland. 6 New Provinces and 1 New Duchy have been added in Sweden.

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And finally, in Denmark we have new pathway across the islands and added Lolland as its own island. Both Jylland and Holstein has been split up and reorganised somewhat, to increase the definition of these areas and show their relevance in the era. In all, there has been 5 New Provinces added and 2 New Duchies.

We hope these changes to Scandinavia will be an interesting addition to all of the updates made to Pagans in Holy Fury, and make certain parts of the region a better experience. Next week, we will take a look down south, towards the changes around the Alps.
 
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I am Norwegian. I'm just trying to weaken the Swedes.

No :)

If you read Swedish history you realize that the Svealand / Gotaland distinction was quite substantial in the early period. There never arose a lasting state that was purely Geatish and encapsulated all the Geatish lands. But there could easily have been one.

This isn't more "fantastical" than an Anglo-Saxon England in the 1350's or a Muslim conquered Europe, but both those are possible in the game.
And it is far less unrealistic than an Aztec invasion if you know what I mean.

How would a titular kingdom model this though?
 
You completelly ignore that tribles profit if the provinces have more empty holdings. Holdings are not all for tribals, empty holding slots are important for them too.
Okay, fair enough. But it's still only a +50% bonus per empty holding compared to the 100% benefit of having another province. Also that doesn't address my argument about feudals who would only benefit from those extra holdings levy-wise if they filled them with castles to hold themselves. As it is, baron-tier vassals are basically useless in terms of levy. Income is another matter, but even there it probably works out better to have more provinces than more holdings.
 
Okay, fair enough. But it's still only a +50% bonus per empty holding compared to the 100% benefit of having another province. Also that doesn't address my argument about feudals who would only benefit from those extra holdings levy-wise if they filled them with castles to hold themselves. As it is, baron-tier vassals are basically useless in terms of levy. Income is another matter, but even there it probably works out better to have more provinces than more holdings.
Don't forget that you get 25-50% (depending on whether you are vassal or independent) more personnal levies in your capital county, so additional baronies in this particular county are very profitable. By comparison, the bonus for the holdings you personnaly own in your capital duchy is only 15-25%.
This is without counting the bonus you can get with your marshal training troops in your capital... the more baronies you have in the county, the more beneficial this mission will be.
Finally, your capital will usually have an edge on technologies compared to the other provinces... So you will have better troops coming from your capital.
 
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How would a titular kingdom model this though?
Why titular? I would say half of svithjod in the early starts go to götaland. Östergötland Småland Gotland västergötland perhaps Värmland (it belongs to svealand today but historically was considered Götaland).
 
I'd be okay with a potential k_gautariki title composed of the duchies of Ostergotland, Vastergotland, Halland and Skaane as it's dejure duchies. (I'm using the SWMH map as my reference map)

Yes, I said Skaane and Halland. It'd mean fighting Denmark in addition to Sweden as making Skaane and Halland dejure to both k_denmark and k_gautariki would make for some interesting gameplay along with making Vastergotland and Ostergotland dejure to k_sweden as well which they already are.

Basically as a Gautr, you'd have to carve out the kingdom out from both kingdoms to complete it. Keep in mind that you need 50%+1 provinces to claim a kingdom title which means you'd have to take dejure provinces from both Sweden and Denmark to create Gautariki.
 
I'd be okay with a potential k_gautariki title composed of the duchies of Ostergotland, Vastergotland, Halland and Skaane as it's dejure duchies. (I'm using the SWMH map as my reference map)

Yes, I said Skaane and Halland. It'd mean fighting Denmark in addition to Sweden as making Skaane and Halland dejure to both k_denmark and k_gautariki would make for some interesting gameplay along with making Vastergotland and Ostergotland dejure to k_sweden as well which they already are.

Basically as a Gautr, you'd have to carve out the kingdom out from both kingdoms to complete it. Keep in mind that you need 50%+1 provinces to claim a kingdom title which means you'd have to take dejure provinces from both Sweden and Denmark to create Gautariki.
You do realize that there is no dual dejure in this game?
Also Halland and Skåne have never been part of Götaland before the peace of roskilde. Even today skåneland is sort of the unofficial fourth land of Sweden rather than Götaland proper. Meanwhile gotland and Småland have always been in Götaland. Especially Småland would look odd as as Swedish enclave surrounded on three sides by Götaland.
Also Denmark is already the smallest kingdom in e scandinavia. If yiu wqmted to take somethign awqy from someoen other than sweden then Norway is the obvious one. Alfheimr was a point of conflict between the kings of Västergötland and the early kings of Norway. Also with Sweden losing all that land norway would be by far the largest kingdom in scandinavia.
 
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I'd be okay with a potential k_gautariki title composed of the duchies of Ostergotland, Vastergotland, Halland and Skaane as it's dejure duchies. (I'm using the SWMH map as my reference map)

Yes, I said Skaane and Halland. It'd mean fighting Denmark in addition to Sweden as making Skaane and Halland dejure to both k_denmark and k_gautariki would make for some interesting gameplay along with making Vastergotland and Ostergotland dejure to k_sweden as well which they already are.

Basically as a Gautr, you'd have to carve out the kingdom out from both kingdoms to complete it. Keep in mind that you need 50%+1 provinces to claim a kingdom title which means you'd have to take dejure provinces from both Sweden and Denmark to create Gautariki.

Assuming that Gotaland would be the underdog... To me this sounds like it would mostly make things harder for Denmark.
 
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Far to the north-west, Iceland has been updated a little bit as well. We have increased the province count from 2 to 4, though knowing that Iceland was far from the most populated of places, we have made sure that they haven’t gotten too strong.

Yay :). Color me happy with Iceland, but also happy in general with the map changes.

Btw, minor thing but I would put the border between Austurland(Austisland) and Suðurland at [Mýrdalsjökull](https://www.google.is/maps/place/Mý...cdc7afe8d7a199d4!8m2!3d63.64673!4d-19.1302843). The border between the quarters was relatively recently moved east (see this 1761 map: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fb/1761_Homann_Heirs_Map_of_Iceland_"Insulae_Islandiae"_-_Geographicus_-_Islandiae-hmhr-1761.jpg/440px-1761_Homann_Heirs_Map_of_Iceland_"Insulae_Islandiae"_-_Geographicus_-_Islandiae-hmhr-1761.jpg f.e.) and the eastern Quarter (going all the way to Mýrdalsjökull to the south-west corner of Langanes(https://www.google.is/maps/place/La...c4bfacbf81c01b!8m2!3d66.2905556!4d-14.9952777) only had around 15% of Iceland's population in the 13th century and was the smallest quarter by population in the middle ages despite its large geographical size.

Iceland was also small, but relatively larger than today. In the middle ages the population of Scandinavia was 20 times larger than the population of Iceland while today Scandinavia has 60 times more people than Iceland.
 
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Happy to see Scandinavia getting some attention although less than pleased to see Rogaland lumped in with the southern counties of Norway to form a "southern Norway" duchy of some kind. Rogaland is and always has been western Norway and its inhabitants identify as westerners as opposed to the easterners of Oslo.
 
Actually, Rogaland is an unique county in Norway. It is the only county considered to be "Southwestern Norway" / Sørvestlandet. Being both Southern and Western at the same time. Møre is the same but being Northwestern instead, both western and (not North Norwegian) but part of Midt-Norge (Middle Norway).

In Møre you can see this clearly with the northern part of the county, Nordmøre considering themselves Middle-Norwegians primarily, while the southern part of the county Sunnmøre considering themselves as Vestlendings (Westlanders).
 
1) Wagadu (Ghana) in its time was more technologically advanced than those parts of Europe which weren't part of Roman empire. And before climatic change in late 11th century which caused intense desertification of previously fertile plains, it was able to feed strong populations which, especially in areas like inland Niger delta, used quite advanced agriculture which was beyond capabiliies of most contemporary Europeans. Yes, they lacked some important resources (salt, horses), but they managed to trade them for gold.
It has all changed during the 12th century when the Sahara moved 100-200 kilometers southwards, weakening the entire civilization and making it more vulnerable... that was the time when the core of power moved southwards, to Mali.
Btw, the gold fields were actually outside of Wagadu (Ghana) itself. The empire only managed to get profit from them, just like the merchants of Jenne and later the mansas of Mali.

2) Geographicaly Wagadu/Ghana was anything but isolated. It was actually a crossroad of trade networks. The one most well known to us was north-south routes, which provided salt to the Sahel and Gold to the Mediterrean area. But there was also intense trade across the Sahel in east-west direction where Wagadu and Jenne were producing fish, agricultural and manufactured goods and were centres of political power, getting salt, iron and cloth from west; copper and textiles from east; kola, timber, slaves and gold from south and salt, luxury goods and horses from the north. The researchers call the Sahel area as optimal zone (that is before the desertification which shrinked the prosperous area and forced the core of population and political power southwards to Mali).
Calling this region as technologicaly backwarded isolated place indeed only shows your ignorance of the area.
I still disagree on some points, but my key postulate about Ghana being weak seems false indeed, due to incorrectly extrapolating the situation from the later ages. Thanks, that was educative.
 
Looks great . But without Fixing England , Scotland ? Well? They are still a throw back to CK1 map wise? The map needs to be Re-textured for a smoother look. !!!
 
Well, I read in wikipedia that Norse didn't settle in Iceland until A.D. 874, before that year there were only Irish monks there. So will the history of Iceland be fixed to make it more "historical" ?
Any county that existed from 769-1400? Should be on the map. The AI doesn't have the ability to break off larger county's over tine periods and population growth. That would be a CK3 feature LOL
 
Looks great . But without Fixing England , Scotland ? Well? They are still a throw back to CK1 map wise? The map needs to be Re-textured for a smoother look. !!!

Britannia as a whole has been rather extensively updated; see this post and a few later ones in that thread.