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Dev Diary #91: Starbases

Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. Today's dev diary marks the start of dev diaries about a major upcoming update that we have named the 'Cherryh' update after science fiction author C.J. Cherryh. This is a major update that will include some very significant reworks to core gameplay systems, reworks that we have been prototyping and testing for some time. Right now, we cannot say anything about the exact nature of the update or anything at all about when it will be released, other than that it's far away. Normally, we wouldn't be doing dev diaries on an update at this stage at all, but there's simply so much to talk about that we have to start early. Cherryh will be a massive update, the largest one we've done to date, and there are many new and changed things to talk about in the coming weeks and months.

Please bear in mind that screenshots are from an early internal build and will contain art and interfaces that are WIP, non-final numbers, hot code and all that business.

Border Rework
We've never been entirely happy with the border system in Stellaris. While it generally works fine from a gameplay perspective, it has some rather quirky elements, such as being able to claim ownership of systems that you have never visited and indeed have no ability to reach and making it hard to tell what the exact border adjustments will be when planets are ceded or outposts are built. For this reason, we have decided to fundamentally rework the Stellaris border system to be based on solar system ownership. Each system will have a single owner, with complete control of the system, and borders are now simply a reflection of system ownership rather than a cause for it to change. In the Cherryh update, who owns a system is almost always based on the owner of the Starbase in said system.
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Starbases
A Starbase is a space station orbiting the star of said system. Each system can only have a single Starbase, but this can be anything from a remote Outpost to a massive Citadel with its own 'fleet' of orbiting defense stations. Starbases can be upgraded and specialized in a variety of ways (more details on this below), and is the primary means of determining system ownership. This means that wars are no longer fought for colonies controlling a nebulous blob of border that may not actually include the systems you really want, but rather for the exact systems you are interested in, and their starbases. This change of course would not be possible if we kept the wargoal system that exists in the live version of the game (just imagine the size of that wargoal list...), but more on that in a couple weeks.
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As Starbases now determine system ownership, it will no longer be possible to colonize or invade primitives outside your borders in the Cherryh update, but if a system contains a colony and no starbase, it will still count as being inside the borders of the colony's owner. These restrictions are moddable. Since Starbases now cost influence to construct (see below), we have removed the influence cost for colonizing and attacking primitives.

Starbases entirely replace the old system of Frontier Outposts.

Starbase Construction
With borders from colonies gone, empires now start only owning their home system, with a Starbase already constructed around their home star. To expand outside their home system, empires will have to construct Outposts in surveyed systems. An Outpost is a level 'zero' Starbase that has only very basic defenses and cannot support any buildings or modules, but also does not count towards your maximum Starbase Capacity (more on that below). Building an Outpost in a system costs influence, with the cost dependent on how far away the system is and how contigous it is to your empire as a whole, so 'snaking' or building starbases to ring in a certain part of space will be more influence-costly than simply expanding in a natural way. Starbases do not cost any influence upkeep, just an up-front cost when first building one in a system. As this change makes influence far more important in the early game, there will also be significant balance changes to empire influence generation in the Cherryh update.
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As an aside note, because we felt it made very little sense to have a home system with a fully built Starbase but no surveyed planet, empire home systems will now start surveyed, with a only slightly randomized amount of resources, and mining/research stations for some of those resources already in place. This should also help make player starts a little less random, ensuring that you are never *completely* without resources in your home system.
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Another thing we have been wary about when working on this is making sure that building the Outposts for each system does not simply feel like adding tedium. Right now, between the fact that which systems you choose to spend your limited influence on is an extremely important choice, and various tweaks and interface improvements we are making to ease up the process of developing your systems, we are confident that this will not be the case. We've also made it so that there are no entirely 'empty' systems (systems with no resources at all), as we discovered during playtesting that spending influence to claim such a system felt extremely unrewarding.

Upgrades and Capacity
Each empire will have a Starbase Capacity that represents the number of upgraded Starbases they can support. There are five levels of Starbases:
Outpost: A basic Outpost that exists only to claim a system. Costs no energy maintenance and does not count towards the Starbase Capacity, and cannot support buildings or modules. Outposts will also not show up in the outliner or galaxy map, as they are not meant to be interacted with at all unless it is to upgrade the Outpost to a Starport.
Starport: The first level of upgraded Starbase, available at the start of the game. Supports 2 modules and 1 building.
Starhold: The second level of upgraded Starbase, unlocked through tech. Supports 4 modules and 2 buildings.
Star Fortress: The third level of upgraded Starbase, unlocked through tech. Supports 6 modules and 3 buildings.
Citadel: The final level of upgraded Starbase, unlocked through tech. Supports 6 modules and 4 buildings.
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Regardless of the level of the Starbase, so long as it is not an Outpost, it will use 1 Starbase Capacity and will show up on the map and in the outliner. Overall, the design goal is for the vast majority of Starbases to be Outposts that you never have to manage, with a handful of upgraded Starbases that are powerful and critical assets for your empire. Going over your Starbase Capacity will result in sharply increased Starbase energy maintenance costs. Starbase Capacity can be increased through techs, traditions and other such means. You also gain a small amount of Starbase Capacity from the number of Pops in your empire. If you end up over Starbase Capacity for whatever reason, it is possible to downgrade upgraded Starbases back into Outposts. It is also possible to dismantle Starbases entirely and give up control of those systems, so long as they are not in a system with a colonized planet.
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Spaceports and Ship Construction
Starbases fully replace Spaceports in the role of system/planet defense and military ship construction. Spaceports still exist, but are no longer separate stations but rather an integrated part of the planet, and can only build civilian ships (Science Ships, Construction Ships and Colony Ships). To build military ships you will need a Starbase with at least one Shipyard module (more on that below). Starbases also replace Spaceports/Planets in that they are now the primary place to repair, upgrade, dock and rally ships, though civilian ships are also able to repair at planets.
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Modules and Buildings
All non-Outpost Starbases can support Modules and Buildings. Some of these are available from the start of the game, while others are unlocked by tech. Some modules and buildings are only available in certain systems, for example Trading Hubs can only be constructed in colonized systems.

Modules are the fundamental, external components of the Starbase, and determine its actual role. Module choices include Trading Hubs (for improving the economy of colonized systems), Anchorages (for Naval Capacity), Shipyards (for building ships, duh), and different kinds of defensive modules such as gun turrets and strike craft hangar bays that improve the Starbase's combat ability. There is no restrictions on the number of modules you can have of a certain type, besides the actual restriction on module slots itself. This means, for example, that you can have a Starbase entirely dedicated to Shipyards, capable of building up to 6 ships in parallell. Modules will also change the graphical appearance of the Starbase, so a dedicated Shipyard will look different from a massive defensive-oriented fortress brimming with dozens of gun turrets.
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Buildings represent internal structures inside the Starbase proper, and typically work to enhance modules or provide a global buff to the Starbase or system as a whole. Building choices include the Offworld Trading Company that increases the effectiveness of all Trading Hub modules, and the Listening Post that massively improves the Starbase's sensor range. You cannot have multiples of the same building on the same Starbase.
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Defenses
One of the fundamental problems with the military stations in the live version of the game is that they simply do not have enough firepower. Even with impressive hit points and shields, a station with at most a dozen or so guns simply cannot match the firepower of a whole fleet. An another issue is the ability to build multiple defense stations in the same system, meaning that no single station can be strong enough to match a fleet, as otherwise a system with several such stations will be effectively invulnerable. For this reason we decided to consolidate all system defenses into the Starbase mechanics, but not into a single station. Starbases come with a basic array of armaments and utilities (gun and missile turrets, shields and armor, etc), with the exact number of weapons based on the level of the Starbase. These are automatically kept up to date with technological advances, so your Starbases won't be fielding red lasers and basic deflectors when facing fleets armed with tachyon lances.
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Additionally, Starbases (with the exception of Outposts) have the ability to construct defense platforms to protect them. Constructed defense platforms will form a 'fleet' around the Starbase, supporting it with their own weapons and giving Starbases the firepower needed to engage entire fleets. The amount of defense platforms a Starbase can support may depend on factors such as starbase size and modules/buildings, technology, policies, and so on. The exact details here are still being worked on, but the design intent is that if you invest into them, Starbase defenses will scale against fleets across the whole game rather just being completely outpaced in the late game as military stations and spaceports currently are in the live version.
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One last note on Starbases: For a variety of reasons (among them to avoid something like the tedious rebuilding of Spaceports that happens at the end of wars) Starbases cannot be destroyed through conventional means. They can, however be disabled and even captured by enemies. More on this in a couple weeks.

... whew, this was a long one but that's all for today! Next week we'll continue talking about the Cherryh update, with the topic being Faster than Light travel...
 
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But the new war swapping system can only possibly require MORE clicks than it does now, not less. Every single system traded in war will have to be manually selected using the new system, which is exactly the same problem in the war context as it is in the colonizing/frontier outpost context.
Incorrect.

Wiz already mentioned in the DD that the wargoal system will be overhauled *coughthankgodfinallycough*, so we might just be lucky and get a full fledged EUIV style one. In which selecting large swaths of provinces (in this case systems) is completely fine. And satisfying.
 
100% agree there. Research/mining station building is obviously many times worse than outpost building.



But the new war swapping system can only possibly require MORE clicks than it does now, not less. Every single system traded in war will have to be manually selected using the new system, which is exactly the same problem in the war context as it is in the colonizing/frontier outpost context.

Even if it did require more clicks, I'd take a EU IV style "click system to set it as war goal/demand it in peace offer" system over the current "have fun with this 100 item long list of unpronounceable, unrememberable names" system any day.
 
In the later parts of the midgame, outside of war, you'll just be spamming frontier outposts to grab all the in-between systems to fill out your borders, having already made all the "interesting" decisions. Nobody else will be able to get to them because they're basically within your borders, and they'll be extremely cheap because you already surround them. In the current game, this would happen automatically as your borders fill out. Now, it'll happen through 3 clicks per star system.
Or you could just... not do that? If the systems don't interest you?

And where is the extra click "per star system" coming from? A right-click to bring up the menu, a left-click to build starbase.

I wouldn't worry so much about an early iteration of a system you will not play for a long time yet.
 
On the topic of reducing micro management: Could automated construction ships work? Allow the player to prioritize resource types if desired (like energy > physics > minerals > everything else and such) and a mineral threshold (if you set it to 1000, they won't start building mining/research stations until you have more than 1000 minerals). And of course, the player can still directly order the construction ships to build stations.
 
These changes sound very interesting!

A couple questions of course!

I'm trying to understand what happens with outposts in combat...

If outposts are treated as starbases and cannot be destroyed, then I have no issues from a gameplay perspective (although it seems like a silly limitation from a roleplay perspective).

However, if outposts are NOT treated as starbases and can be destroyed, then there could be some issues... If they're targeted by fleets for destruction, then won't you start changing borders during warfare as those outposts are destroyed? Yes, this happens now with Frontier Outposts, but won't this be compounded with the new border system (and if so, is that ok or is being mitigated with other upcoming changes?) Also, won't it make rebuilding after a war very influence expensive as you'll potentially have to replace a lot of outposts? I'm envisioning of how to defend a non-hyperlane empire from new combat strategies of sending tons of small fleets to take out as many outposts as possible to cripple your enemy's economy and borders....

And, it also sounds like these changes will completely eliminate border range which used to be able to be manipulated as a strategy for stealing key systems away from enemy empires without going to war (i.e., drop a frontier outpost and steal that sweet system with colonizable planets and Zro from the enemy). So, is border range effectively dead or are new mechanics being introduced that will reintroduce border range as a non-warfare expansion strategy?
 
Incorrect.

"incorrect" in the detail that "every system will have to be manually selected" or incorrect in my conclusion that "it can only require more clicks"

Because while I obviously don't know how the exact system will work, I don't see how you could possibly make it not require more clicks. The current system of "seize one colony" = "full borders for that colony" can't possibly be replicated under your new system, so I'm curious how you'll change it in a way that doesn't make it more clicking intensive.
 
I feel rather sorry for Wiz, seeing as almost every post of his gets bombarded with either tiniest questions on each and every aspect of a topic, which usually don't even make sense to ask at this point or with outright dismissal or even more hostile critique as if the developers have absolutely no trust from the fanbase.
 
How will defence focused empires, that focus more on building dafence stations in the Starports instead of a big fleet, fare against a crisis?

Because at the moment the best defences against an upcoming crisis is a surgical strike on the crisis, when its still small.
That won't be possible if your strength relies on a stationary defence. Will you just be overrun by the crisis later on?
 
Wait, do Outposts still cost influence upkeep in addition to the base cost?

And I will be dreading the FTL update all week now.
 
The old border system was really horrible. The way you could be locked out of entire regions of space based on some arbitrary invisible line was frankly ridiculous ("Oh look, now that I've picked up Galactic Ambitions, the influence zones of my two colonies have joined together, so that critical hyperlane node located in between them is now in my territory and I'm not letting anyone else use it"). I'm so glad it's gone.
That's true, but the solution there would be improved military system - they get to say "you're not allowed through" but without anyway of enforcing it, that should be meaningless. So, make 'border closed' status be more of a suggestion; you can go through but they might shoot you down if they put fleet on border patrol duty or build military station. Or have that put strain on diplomatic relations with others, resulting in wars by having better coalition system.

Fundamentally "I've a colony kinda nearby, and I'm willing to risk war by stopping others passing through this solar system" makes more sense than "I have tons of colonies nearby but because I don't have a major station in this solar system I can't build mines here".

Yes, that's what I meant as well. When choosing which system you want to put an Outpost in next, you have to consider the following factors:
- Which resources and planets it contains
- Which systems it will bring you closer to, and what planets they contain
- Which systems your neighbors and rivals are likely to claim, and whether you should try to take them first
- Whether it is worth to rush towards a particular system (to get those resources/planets) or stick to a more 'blobby' expansion (to save influence)
- The influence it costs, and whether you have a better use for that currency

It's as strategic a decision as strategic decisions get. If you're doing it without thinking, you're doing it very, very wrong.
Sometimes sure, and that's when you can put a frontier station or go to war over that one system. A planet has betharian stone/ 6+ science or system is a choke point for hyperlanes - awesome it becomes a focus. A system has 4 minerals among 2 planets and 2 energy - meh it doesn't particularly matter if I get that from this system or a system next to it.

There is already a system to handle former (frontier stations, rush-colonisation etc) and while war demands is ambiguous about impact on borders that also exists; meanwhile passive expansion takes care of the latter type of systems. Outposts in every system seems to eliminate the second half of that equation and tries to make every system a strategic decision when they obviously aren't - average systems are average because they are common and replaceable, thus micro-managey.
 
From the Dev Diary, yes. You'd have to survey the system, then claim it manually, then build all the mining stations. Wiz has said that they're looking to change the station building mechanic though, as it is very micro intensive in the late game.
Makes sense, i can see how incredibly micro intensive it is considering large late game empires can have hundreds of systems.
 
Hate to say it, but from this info: this might be the first update/DLC I'm so far not particularly enthused about. I had been excited about the teaser info on starbases, but the direction things are going in feels far less enticing than I'd hoped.

Borders

One of the things I'd really loved about Stellaris had been the borders, though I agree there could be room for improvement... but this doesn't feel like the way to go. The fundamental game feels like it'd completely change from what we've all come to love. It feels like the game will become too small, too slow, with lots of empty unclaimed space.

I'd rather that borders be much as they are today, but perhaps limited to the maximum reachable travel distance within X amount of time. This wouldn't generally have too much effect, except to limit borders from going to inaccessible spiral arms or from spanning across odd hyperspace kinks.

Expanding Diplomacy: "Fixed Borders" might be an option that eliminates/reduces border tension, and locks those borders from the usual push & tug (with auto-renew offers generated as the deal nears expiration).

Starbases

I'd been excited by the teasers, and am looking forward to more profound levels, modules, and buildings. Less so is how these relate to border expansion (per my previous critiques) and how they must be built explicitly around the star:
  • In a realistic sense: right by the star seems like one of the worst places to build a starbase. Though I'd be receptive if devs had a good explanation of "we thought of that, but here's why we thought it better to sacrifice realism for gameplay".
  • Assuming that the FTL Inhibitor stays in-game: this eliminates any tactical placement of the facility. Enemy fleets would always be forced onto the star, which may not always be ideal.
While I love the boosted capabilities of starbase defenses, I'm not yet sure what to think of also losing Military Stations... it looks like we can design the Defense Platforms? Can they be upgraded? As part of the design: can we set the distance it'll be from the starbase?

And some first thoughts toward starbases becoming indestructible:
  • How will starbases repair/repower? Will starbases repair/repower immediately at the end of a battle? When enemies leave a system? At the end of a war? When their owner gets to them, either by clicking a repair/repower button or sending a construction ship?
  • Will repairs themselves be just as tedious as rebuilding?
  • Or if repairs are automatic: will they place a resource drain that a player may not want at that moment? (at least players rebuilding starbases & military stations can control when+how)
  • How that might these changes affect hit & run tactics, or wars of attrition?
 
"incorrect" in the detail that "every system will have to be manually selected" or incorrect in my conclusion that "it can only require more clicks"

Because while I obviously don't know how the exact system will work, I don't see how you could possibly make it not require more clicks. The current system of "seize one colony" = "full borders for that colony" can't possibly be replicated under your new system, so I'm curious how you'll change it in a way that doesn't make it more clicking intensive.

Now you're just being pedantic. You are arguing that 2 clicks is worse than one. Who cares? If you really dislike clicks so much, go play some console FPS.
It's obvious Wiz does not want to say anymore at this time. And that more information will follow in dev diaries for the next 6 months or so.

What we do know is:
- The system is changed and it requires outposts
- Outposts require influence and are a must in any system you want to claim
- And, that Wiz said that the wargoal system will change so you do not have to select every single system by itself.

I don't know why he's not giving us more info. Maybe in order to keep the interest up. Maybe it's not finalized yet. Regardless, he's not. So, really, all we can do is wait, and see, and judge afterwards.

I'm not being an apologist here, but when a dev does not want to give you more info at the current point in time, then you can either a) wait and see or b) leave to greener (for you) pastures.

Personally, I'm going to wait and see.
 
Wow.

This is incredible. I've been wanting this kind of overhaul for a long time, the spaceport/warfare/borders/etc systems always felt off to me. Thanks Wiz!

I only have one request, please make it so system resources are gathered once an outpost is built. Not initially of course, but through an upgrade maybe? No longer having to build a couple hundred mining/research stations every game would be nice.