• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Dev Diary #92 - Orders of Magnitude

Hello there!

We are already more than halfway through July, and we are already at the third of the five rogue Dev Diaries we will have. For this week’s Dev Diary, we are going to talk about Holy Orders, and the small changes being made to them.

I am going to start off with clarifying that Holy Orders are NOT going to be made playable. The changes are made so you can interact with them in new ways, not for you to play as them. The game is still focused on dynasties, and that has not changed with Holy Fury. Another thing I want to note, is that all these changes to Holy Order are part of the patch to Holy Fury, and not part of the expansion. In other words, you will not have to pay for them.

And as always, certain things might change before the release of Holy Fury.

Clipboard01.png


With their own government form rather than being Feudal, it is easier for us to treat them as their own entities, and not having the player awkwardly inherit one of them, with all their own quirks and special focuses. They should be easier to distinguish from a normal Feudal character as well, now that they have their own frames rather than the Feudal blue.

Clipboard01.png


Some of the other Christian Holy Orders have received decisions for forming and vassalizing them as well, in addition to the old decisions for the Knights Hospitaller and the Knights Templar. In the example above, you can see the decision to vassalize the Knights of Calatrava, and we have added similar ones for the Knights of Santiago, the Teutonic Order and the Brotherhood of the Holy Sepulchre.

A new limitation we have added, is that you can only vassalize 1 Holy Order at a time with these decisions. This was to make sure we didn’t have one player changing religions and trying to capture all of them. This is Crusader Kings 2, after all, not Pokémon.

Clipboard02.png


If you have vassalized a Holy Order and they don’t find you fit to rule anymore, they will leave your service. They will return any land they hold that you are the De Jure Lord of, so with that in mind you usually shouldn’t lose large swathes of land if a Holy Order leaves your service. Though I would recommend staying on friendly terms with them.

Clipboard03.png


For the Knights Hospitaller, they can now ask a ruler conquering an island in the mediterranean to donate it to the order. We have added a similar event for the Teutonics in the north, replacing the old event where they asked for a single county.

Clipboard04.png


... So that is all for today!

Hopefully the Holy Orders will be a tad more interesting with some of these changes. Next week we will take a look at… Let me take a look at my notes here… “Shepherds, zealous kids and Venetians burning down Byzantium”? Surely that’ll be exciting news!
 
Last edited:
What I don't get is how they say HO cant form a kingdom when there is a screenshot of the Teutonic Order with a Kinglevel.
How the hell did we not see this sooner
 
@Snow Crystal

Have the Knights Templars "Borrow" decision been touched up aswell?

For example the Knights Templar were wealthy and very powerful, essentially a massive bank that gave out loans and received large donations in addition to this, while in our games most of the time they're mostly poor all the time as rulers keep taking the decision to borrow gold as soon as the KT have that amount available resulting in a lack of holding upgrades and essentially braking the historical factor. Plus I don't think any AI donates money to the Holy Orders. So has this been changed in the coming update?

Thanks.
 
Holy Orders' troops don't fight againt religious brethren
Fine remark.
Looking in old saves I found moment I mean it was of course pagan ruler not Christian.
But my complain are the same - why the hell several catholic holy order suddenly arrives in any capital in India I attack?
Only because they used to be landed and since then they are in coalition against me?
But whole catholic world is mine now, and almost completely converted in my own religion, only India left.
Where they based last century, whom they hiring, who pays for their efforts?

I still strongly suggest kick out any landless rulers from coalitions.
 
If a Jew inherited the HRE in the Middle Ages, I think the Teutonic Order taking a hike would be the least of his problems. Like all your other vassals declaring independence immediately or just declaring a coup. Or ten coups at the same time. And getting gangbanged by all your neighbors in an impromptu crusade. Assuming you'd even manage to walk down the aisle to your coronation without getting Caesar'd.
All in all, I think this feature is pretty fair.
Truth be told it wouldn't get that far it'd be riotin in the streets the moment the people relaized that the heir to the throne was a jew, heck there would probably be rioting in the street if they knew the heir to the throne was being educated by a jew. In certain Andalusian kingdoms there were riots because the rulers had jewish advisors.
Sadly, there is this tendency in Paradox to push player to play their games as they want to have them be played, instead of letting players to decide for themselves.
Without boundary conditions a sandbox is just MS paint.
HoléKnightmon - Gonna catch 'em all!
Gotta convert them all.
What I don't get is how they say HO cant form a kingdom when there is a screenshot of the Teutonic Order with a Kinglevel.
They can't create kingdoms normally but they likely have an event which allows them to become kingdom level with a special title.
I wonder if the Teutonic Order gets an exception since they historically ended up with a kingdom.
Well they didn't Prussia didn't become a kingdom until much much later.
Will you add the Livonian Swordbrothers as well?
I hope so, I think that may be the reason for the kingdom level title for the teutons, to allow them to have another holy order as vassals.
How the hell did we not see this sooner
We did I mentioned it in my first post.
@Snow Crystal
Have the Knights Templars "Borrow" decision been touched up aswell?
For example the Knights Templar were wealthy and very powerful, essentially a massive bank that gave out loans and received large donations in addition to this, while in our games most of the time they're mostly poor all the time as rulers keep taking the decision to borrow gold as soon as the KT have that amount available resulting in a lack of holding upgrades and essentially braking the historical factor. Plus I don't think any AI donates money to the Holy Orders. So has this been changed in the coming update?
Thanks.
Yeah the borrow from the knights should just create money while the repaid money should be repaid to the templars.
HOs can't create Kingdom titles nor receive Kingdom titles, but they probably can start out as Kingdom titles.
My guess is that there is a special circumstance which allows the TO to become the teutonic state and likely vassalize the sword brethren.
 
Last edited:
I wonder if the Teutonic Order gets an exception since they historically ended up with a kingdom.
The TO didn't become a Duchy until 82 years after 1453. They did not have a union with Brandenburg until 165 years after 1453. They did not become a Kingdom until 248 years after 1453, and the the Margraviate of Brandenburg was more core to it than Prussia actually was.
 
Last edited:
Nice, but I fear this means I can no longer use my standard "give county to holy order, offer vassalization (with neg_diplo), switch to them, accept, switch back to my character" procedure. Oh well, such is life.

Easier way that ignores the pesky cultural requirements is to simply grant them a kingdom, preferebly a titular one.
 
What is "Prepare Reconquest War"? :rolleyes:
It seems we'll learn about that in two weeks. Some Northern Crusades and Reconquista stuff
 
The TO didn't become a Duchy until 82 years after 1453. They did not have a union with Brandenburg until 165 years after 1453. They did not become a Kingdom until 248 years after 1453, and the the Margraviate of Brandenburg was more core to it than Prussia actually was.
It's probably a mechanical thing to allow the Teutonic order to have the livonian order as a subject.

A game with too much boundries can hardly be called a sandbox.
Obviously it can be taken too far but you mileage may vary. I think the games are far to sandboxy.
 
Probably a way to make the iberian reconquista happen.
It is right above the "iberian" holy order.
I would rather have a way for it not to happen, or at least slow it down. As things are whoever has the upper hand in that region has the other one pushed out inside of a century.