Dev Diary - Introduction to Paradox Mods

[Pyoro]

Do we have to be permanently logged in ingame and on that platform?
Can you just download mods manually and place them manually too, or is that completely locked away?

 

[Jovzin]

Crap I just need one thing to know. Do I need to have that stupid Paradox Launcher installed to be able to download mods or not ? Can I just download mods via in game panel ? But can I do it with uninstalled Paradox Launcher ? As I assume you will forcefully install the Paradox Launcher during install of CS2. So, this will be first thing to go from my HDD before I start the game. So what will happen when I click on that Paradox mods ? Will I get some in game window that is completely separate from Paradox Launcher or it will try to open the Paradox Launcher in the back, bcs it will need it to communicate with Paradox Mods website ?

 

[JustFalcon]

The ability to select a version of the mod & having playsets are both giant wins. Truthfully, I was initially very panicked over the lack of Steam Workshop, but this looks as good, if not better, than the Workshop (especially that version selector.)

The fact that Steam Workshop doesn't have a version selector STILL definitely makes this a better alternative.

 

[Masternachos]

Wow, it's almost as if people were freaking out over nothing.

Which is weird, that never happens.

 

[Masternachos]

I will admit to being someone who downloaded "Ability to Read". I thought it did something, like... let the game 'read' something better, I don't know tech stuff! I have no idea what Harmony does, either.

Curious if there will be a way to sort by popular/most subscribed/etc. within the past few X and shows mods that have been the most popular/most subscribed/etc. within that time period RATHER than the most popular/subscribed/etc. mods released within that time period.

 

[benzoll]

It seems that the waters return to their riverbed, after an incompressible storm because of where the CS2 mods will be. If "CO" comes to say that there are no mods in CS2, Tampere would have burned .. haha
"CO" has explained their reasons, they deserve a margin of trust.

Actually, what do you care where? The important is that there are mods. And that modders are at ease, and that seems.

 

[Dale]

The FAQs and Dev Diaries only address a couple of questions, but it also opens up a raft of other very important questions that Paradox should answer.

1. In the future, when Paradox Mods is no longer supportable by Paradox's bottom line, will it be closed down and everyone lose access to mods? There are so many examples of where a game was tied to a publisher service which was then closed down when it was no longer profitable, thus destroying the community instantly. Paradox did this as recently as last week when they wrote-down the loss from Lamplighters, fired most of the studio (so no more updates), and released the studio from their control (after ensuring the studio's IP was solely owned by Paradox).

2. What is to stop Paradox from blocking/removing mods that don't suit them? For instance, mods that conflict with DLC? Mods from players who suddenly aren't looked on favourably by Paradox? If Paradox publish a DLC focused on bridges, and someone then makes free bridge mods, will they be removed?

3. Some people take long periods off from a game, which can span more than a year. In the Paradox EULA it states that any account not accessed for more than 365 days can be deleted on the whim of Paradox. If a modder uploads some mods, then takes a break from the game for a year or more and their account is deleted by Paradox, then what happens to their mods?

3a. Further to 3, if the modder then comes back after the break, are they able to gain access back to their mods?

4. I am a Game dev myself, and last year I integrated steam workshop AND modio into the game I was working on. The in-game mod browser works seamlessly to present players mods from both platforms, plus also allows modders to upload with a single click. The entire process is transparent, and managed in the background by the game to ensure mods are available on all platforms. If the player is on steam, they default to workshop first, then modio. All other platforms default to modio. Now, all other Paradox games on Paradox Mods ALSO supports steam workshop. Why could you not provide the best solution and support both mod platforms for CS2 similar to what a number of games already are doing to support steam, non-steam, console installs? It's obviously not a problem since every other Paradox game supports both platforms, so why suddenly will you not for CS2? (Note: console support is NOT the answer here, it's a crock as current games already support integrated mod platforms like I explained).

5. If a mod community springs up in another location, say Nexis, or Simtropolis, or other website, are mods still able to be manually installed from other platforms into the game, or will that be locked off as well?

6. Earlier this year, Paradox changed their EULA to include terms to be able to monetise UGC (user generated content) without permission and without compensation to the creator. In May's shareholder deep dive, executives openly stated how successful 'content creator packs' were for revenue, and were pursuing other methods of monetising UGC. So, in the future, if (when) Paradox decides to monetise Paradox Mods and start charging for mods (through direct download or subscription), will modders be able to opt-out and maintain free mods, or will you force it on them?

6a. Further to 6, if (when) mods are monetised, will you then open up support for steam workshop or other mod platforms so a free mod community can still exist?

Thanks in advance for your answers.

 

[BoraBora]

2. What is to stop Paradox from blocking/removing mods that don't suit them?

A rhetorical question as the answer is obvious: nothing. They also have total control on their games's Steam workshops, like any publisher. They can remove/delete any CS mod on the Steam woekshop since the release in 2015. You may know this, having worked on the Steam integration of some game.

6. Earlier this year, Paradox changed their EULA to include terms to be able to monetise UGC (user generated content) without permission and without compensation to the creator. In May's shareholder deep dive, executives openly stated how successful 'content creator packs' were for revenue, and were pursuing other methods of monetising UGC. So, in the future, if (when) Paradox decides to monetise Paradox Mods and start charging for mods (through direct download or subscription), will modders be able to opt-out and maintain free mods, or will you force it on them?

6a. Further to 6, if (when) mods are monetised, will you then open up support for steam workshop or other mod platforms so a free mod community can still exist?

Rhetorical questions, again. They wrote the mods won't be monetized, ever. So these questions are basically saying: I don't believe you, you may be liars, just like a lot of previous posts. There's nothing to answer to this but "no, we're not liars". Which would call for "yes, you may be liars" etc. Kiddie stuff. Trust them or not but don't ask them if they're worthy of your trust. That's ridiculous.

Question 1 is also rhetorical as everybody already knows what the official answer will be.

I'd like to know the answer to questions 3 and 5, though.

 

[Dale]

A rhetorical question as the answer is obvious: nothing. They also have total control on their games's Steam workshops, like any publisher. They can remove/delete any CS mod on the Steam woekshop since the release in 2015. You may know this, having worked on the Steam integration of some game.

The issue here is that for CS1 there were many places mods could be acquired from. We didn't have to "trust" Paradox as we could just as easily go somewhere outside of their control for mods.

For CS2 though we are being forced to a single location which is totally under Paradox control. We do not have the option to go elsewhere for mods outside their control. And all they give us is "trust me bro"? Ask Skyrim players where trusting Bethesda got them.

Rhetorical questions, again. They wrote the mods won't be monetized, ever. So these questions are basically saying: I don't believe you, you may be liars, just like a lot of previous posts. There's nothing to answer to this but "no, we're not liars". Which would call for "yes, you may be liars" etc. Kiddie stuff. Trust them or not but don't ask them if they're worthy of your trust. That's ridiculous.

Trust of their answer is also hard to place. Aside from the EULA change, when executives tell shareholders they are looking at ways to monetise UGC, do you know what happens if shareholders don't see that happen? The board gets voted out and they put someone who will do it in charge.

Paradox just did a $22 million write down for Lamplighters League. The shareholders need their dividends, and Paradox needs profits.

It may be true they won't charge for mods. But there are many other ways to monetise UGC. Monthly access fee. Curated content. Subscription for "always up to date mods".

 

[BoraBora]

The issue here is that for CS1 there were many places mods could be acquired from. We didn't have to "trust" Paradox as we could just as easily go somewhere outside of their control for mods.

Seriously? You're going to pretend the handful of old CS mods on Nexus and Simtropolis you have to intall by hand are an alternative to the Steam workshop?

For CS2 though we are being forced to a single location which is totally under Paradox control. We do not have the option to go elsewhere for mods outside their control. And all they give us is "trust me bro"? Ask Skyrim players where trusting Bethesda got them.

We don't know that, hence your question 3, to which I'd like an answer from CO. If you persuaded yourself we won't be able to install mods by hand, why do you ask this question 3? Are all these questions actually an hypocritical way of raging?

Trust of their answer is also hard to place. (...)

You have an opinion, fine. The is a forum and everyone is entitled to express opinions. Just don't pretend you need an official answer from Paradox to the question: "are you a bunch of liars when you're saying the mods will never be monetized?". That's ridiculous.

 

[Dale]

Seriously? You're going to pretend the handful of old CS mods on Nexus and Simtropolis you have to intall by hand are an alternative to the Steam workshop?



We don't know that, hence your question 3, to which I'd like an answer from CO. If you persuaded yourself we won't be able to install mods by hand, why do you ask this question 3? Are all these questions actually an hypocritical way of raging?



You have an opinion, fine. The is a forum and everyone is entitled to express opinions. Just don't pretend you need an official answer from Paradox to the question: "are you a bunch of liars when you're saying the mods will never be monetized?". That's ridiculous.

The fact there are other places to get mods, acts as a check and balance. When they limit access to other locations that check is removed.

Anyways, I would like an official answer to my questions, not someone else who is assuming like me.

 

[Rhel]

Never used it, but if it works as advertised it sounds like a straight upgrade over Steam Workshop.

 

[BoraBora]

The fact there are other places to get mods, acts as a check and balance. When they limit access to other locations that check is removed.

Again, we don't know if they limit to other locations. That's why I said right away I wished an answer too.

Anyways, I would like an official answer to my questions, not someone else who is assuming like me.

Like everybody, you know the official answers to 4 out of 6 of your questions. Let's wait for the answers to questions 3 and 5.

 

[Dushess]

If you don't need to actually redownload every collection each time - it is even better. Concerns are not forgotten, but we will look into it. If PDXmods will provide functionality of saving everything, but USING selected - I'm in. Of course we remember the Unity behavior, if mod is located in directory it runs code anyway. Weird mechanics, are you got rid of that? Since you have dependency check in plans - is that really means you will preserve crucial/backbone mods and assets in game's env, and will ask player if it has been deleted from server?

 

[thisisbossi]

This provides a lot of great info that I hope hits a lot of the issues from the rather limited Dev Diary a few days ago. I'll be looking forward to seeing this in action, and hope the team will stay on top of trying to improve & refine the system over time!

Thanks for this deeper dive!!

 

[jcc5018]

Interesting to see that there will be playsets. How will this affect Skyve, will we still need it or can it all be done in house now? There are some features Skyve still has that paradox mods doesn't like a full compatibility check. Will it be able to sync up with paradox mods?

You know there will be no skyve in CS2 unless someone makes a new version.

 

[James Fire]

Wow, it's almost as if people were freaking out over nothing.

They should have done this diary before announcing the lock, not after. Telling people they were freaking out over nothing when this info wasn't available, and Paradox mods has previously been unusable garbage is frankly bad faith.

"How dare people react entirely reasonably to being forced to use a (at the time known bad) system!"

 

[Angelhearth]

View attachment 1032607

Introduction to Paradox Mods ​

Dear mayors! The announcement that Cities: Skylines II will be using Paradox Mods for mods distribution has sparked a lot of discussions - and we are happy to see that you share the same passion for Mods we do! We understand this change brings about questions - This Dev Diary aims at reducing uncertainty and hopefully will make the transition of you using a new platform easier.

Background​

First and foremost - Paradox Mods is our own platform-neutral modding system. The initial version was made to allow mod support for the Cities: Skylines Xbox Edition. Since then, the platform has come a long way in terms of features and volume: We now serve mods for over a dozen games!

Paradox’s considered opinion is that mods are, and should always be, free of charge community-created content. This is not something that we will ever change. Mods have always been one of the most impactful ways a community can change their own game, and this creativity is never something we would want to hinder.

Features​

Given the extensive use of mods in Cities: Skylines and our ambition to make mods more available, we have been hard at work developing and perfecting many features that were already part of Paradox Mods, and new features that would be beneficial for the Cities: Skylines II community. Let’s show you its features!

Subscriptions​

As is normal, provided you have a Paradox account, you can subscribe to mods. Subscribing will cause the mod to be automatically downloaded and installed on your computer. When that mod later has an update, it will also be automatically kept up to date. Subscriptions are portable across platforms (Steam, Windows Store, Playstation, Xbox, etc.), meaning you can play with the same configuration of mods on any platform that you own the game on. Be aware that code mods may not be possible to enable on consoles however!

This is an example of what a mod information view would look like in-game.

Discussions​

In order to facilitate the conversations and discussions between users and creators, mods can be connected to forum topics. This means that all of the features available on the Paradox Forums can be used while discussing mods. Pins, topics, future planned features, and different active conversations can all be delegated their own thread.

Game Support​

Since a mod may have been made to support a specific version or versions of the game, Paradox Mods gives the mod creator the option to tell the players what version of the game the mod is intended to work with. Naturally, Paradox Mods won’t prevent you from playing with “incompatible” mods, but it will tell you when you are about to try!

Versioning​

Since many of our games go through quite significant changes with most big DLC releases and/or Free Updates, and some users like playing old game versions, Paradox Mods also supports downloading older versions of a mod. This will allow you to play with mods targeted at non-current game versions. That means that if you, for some reason, don’t want to play the latest version of the mod, you can revert to an earlier version. The version check discussed in the previous paragraph will also be active if you were to accidentally (or on purpose) select a version of the mod that is incompatible with your game.

Dependencies​

Mods sometimes depend on other mods for functionality (like Harmony Mod in Cities: Skylines (1), for decoration (a tree or a prop), or for memes (looking at you “Ability to Read”), and we also support this type of relationship in the Paradox Mods system. If you subscribe to a mod with dependencies, you’ll be given the option also automatically to subscribe to those mods.

As a bonus feature of this, collection mods can be created as basically empty mods containing only dependencies.

Playsets​

Users with completely different mod setups (maybe one for your east-asian style and one for your cute French cottage-core set) can use the playset feature, where entire blocks of mods can be activated as a unit. Playsets are entire setups that will ensure that dependencies are fulfilled. Playsets are, of course, cloud-synced and portable between your devices.

Each subscription will belong to a given playset - This means that you can add collection mods to different playsets and, in this way, quickly build different experiences to your liking.

For some games, the order in which mods are loaded is important. In such cases, the playset will also allow you to set the order in which you want the mods to be loaded. By default, mods with dependencies will load after the mods they depend on.

You can add up to 50 different playsets. This is a playset containing three Paradox-themed buildings.

Choosing what playset to play with is a breeze!

Tags​

In order to make searching mods easier, up to ten tags may be attached to a mod. The game team will define these - An initial set will be made for the launch of the game, and more may be added later on. Search results can be filtered on what tags you want the mod to have. Some examples would be to filter on “highrise”, “modern”, “office”, or maybe “collection”, “French”, or ”cottage”. You can then apply sort orders such as “most recent” or “highest rated”.

We will write more Developer Diaries in the future where we talk more about Search and Sorting, so if this interests you, stick around for more of these!

Mods in Cities: Skylines II​

Our intent with the mods solution is to make mods easily available on all platforms that the game is launching on. For that purpose, we have constructed an in-game interface for mods browsing, subscription, and management. In addition, there will be mod tools delivered with the game, aimed at making mod creation easier and more accessible to those new to the hobby. You can read more about these tools in one of the latest Dev Diaries from Colossal Order.

You will also be able to check out the most recent Paradox Mods additions from your browser so that you can modify your playsets and feed your mod addiction on the go.

The web interface is made for the modder on the go.

We believe that modding is a crucial part of the game experience and will be an important factor in determining the success of the game on PC as well as on consoles. Naturally, console players may face some limitations that PC players do not - primarily regarding available disk space and use of code mods - but we will do our best to accommodate as broad an audience as possible.

We are not done yet…​

…and we probably never will be. The Paradox Mods platform is under continuous development and will remain so - We are currently working on more features that focus on efficiency and convenience, and of course a whole bunch of other stuff that we are not yet ready to share. A couple of examples of this are differential updates, where only the part of the mod that actually changed is downloaded and installed, and granular search, where we enable weighted search results, aiming to deliver more precise and relevant mods.

We hope you’ll share any feedback with us so that we can make this a platform of your dreams!

When? That's my only question so far. When will the mods be available? I checked just now and can't find any links to CSII mods, not from the page linked to, nor from the game itself. This game is in serious need of mods, like serious.

 

[ArchiPhoenix]

I have decided to wait for this feature to enter the game to seriously play again.

There are too many things wrong as of now, and I do not want to spend my free time being frustrated, even though I enjoy the game. The mix enjoyment to frustration is about 50/50 for me and apart from the game related issues, the biggest frustration is that I can't create my own map, even though this was the first thing I hoped to do when getting access to the game.

I could spend my free time to report bugs and such, but there is already plenty of feedback coming in.

So I I shall wait until the map editor and Paradox Mods become available, though I'll check in after each patch to see how much things change.

 

[jpennin1]

One of the advantages of having a custom-built mod system would be adding game-specific specs on the uploaded assets. For example, it would be amazing if support was built-in to report the number of tris (triangles/polygons) in an asset so that you could sort or filter by assets that might impact your system performance.