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Developer Diary #14: What are we up to? Part 2.

As summer approaches we wanted to fill you in on a few processes and reflections our team is grappling with. So much going on right now!

Audio
“One aspect I’ve been enjoying about working on Bloodlines 2 from an audio perspective was imagining how a vampire perceives the world around them. A favourite moment of mine was weaving past moments into the soundscape as if we could hear the past itself. While it might sound a bit corny, I enjoyed playing with the idea of being an ancient being capable of sensing beyond their own time. In an abstract way, it added a supernatural feeling to the game rather than just providing linear sound design for the visual world.
I also really enjoyed how the entire audio team were so dedicated into carving out this unique sounding character and world together. We would always present work, give critiques and just refine as much as possible. I am certain Bloodlines 2 will have a truly unique sound when it releases, thanks to the extraordinary efforts of the audio team.”

- The Chinese Room’s Sound Designer Corry Young

Concept Art
Nix

“Here are some experimentations of Nix whom you'll meet in the underground. Although more integrated to the human side of civilisation, we wanted to maintain some of the animalistic feral nature hallmark to the Gangrel clan in her design.”

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- The Chinese Room’s Junior Concept Artist Isobel Hine

Pioneer Square Concepts
“In these concepts we were exploring the look and feel of the Pioneer Square section of the city. We were tasked with making sure this area of the city feels cold, atmospheric and is bathed in neon light. One of the main focuses of our art direction is making sure we’re always leaning into this neo-noir look for our world, a high contrast visual identity that is brooding and moody. Additionally, we were tasked with putting together several shopfront ideas that could appear throughout this area of the city.”

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- The Chinese Room’s Art Director John McCormack and Lead Concept Artist Michele Nucera
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- The Chinese Room’s Senior Concept Artist Jordan Grimmer and Lead Concept Artist Michele Nucera
Financial District Concepts
“Like above, we were also briefed with exploring the look of the financial area of our city. With this we wanted to go in a very different direction, leaning heavily on a more cyan colour palette with high, glass front buildings. We wanted to make sure every area of Seattle feels distinct and instantly recognizable.”


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- The Chinese Room’s Lead Concept Artist Michele Nucera
Code / Programming
“Time for an update from code. The team have been working hard on getting the city experience working well. We have been putting the MassAI framework of Unreal 5 through its paces, it’s a new system for simulating crowds and we’ve used it for the pedestrian simulation in our rendition of the streets of Seattle. By leveraging the smart object system, we've created interactive elements for pedestrians, such as cash machines and park benches.

But, the crowds also need to chatter as we can’t have everyone walk around in complete silence. We’ve extended our banter system to allow groups of pedestrians and enemy NPCs to talk to each other, enabling general contextual chat about the world and reactions to you as you complete the missions.
We’ve also been extending the combat system to allow many NPCs to fight, and for pedestrians to fight too with a just-in-time switch from the MassAI system to regular instanced characters, and we’ve made them able to fight each other when the circumstances are right – it’s very entertaining.
Other than that we’ve been working hard on optimising the game to run on consoles and keeping the framerate solid on PCs, and the memory footprint small.”
- The Chinese Room’s Technical Director Nick Slaven

Design
“For my Quests, I like to lean into the protagonist's nature as an outsider in a foreign land. Seattle may at first seem inconsequential to an Elder Vampire but, powerful as you are, you're still at the bottom of the ladder. Phyre must quickly react to a Kindred power structure in chaos and the early missions in the city reflect this.

Rejection by those in power would mean certain befalling, and so Phyre must prove their worthiness to Seattle's elite. Many of my quests follow this thread of pressure being applied to our protagonist. For players to run the gauntlet through Seattle, deciding which relationships to nurture and which to break.

Seattle is frozen in time under a blanket of snow, waiting for a new leader to emerge. Phyre is weakened and in need of both allies and answers. The weakest soldiers on the street, the Courts, and even the Cops will present challenges for players to navigate, or maybe just straight-up punch in the mouth. Our more open areas present players with more of a choice in their approach to combat and we've taken great care in crafting slick traversal options that reinforce that. Can't wait to show you more!"

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- The Chinese Room’s Junior Level Designer Jack Goddard
“In the last Dev Diary, I mentioned how we build our levels to support the game’s awesome traversal system. This time, I’d like to dive deeper into this and some other key considerations when designing levels for Bloodlines 2.

Traversal Mechanics
Let's start with traversal. When designing our spaces, we consider numerous factors to allow you to make the most of your Kindred abilities. Many of our environments would have been built for humans in Seattle, but you are a powerful Vampire, and our spaces need to support this. We have created multiple paths, some that are accessible by humans and some of which are only accessible through using your unique movements, enhancing both gameplay variety and immersion. However, using these vampiric abilities can risk breaking the Masquerade, so these paths are designed to be used discreetly, ensuring you remain hidden from prying human eyes.

Space Purpose
The purpose of each space greatly influences its design. Are you likely to be fighting enemies here? If so, the area will look and feel vastly different from one meant for exploration or storytelling. Combat zones are crafted to support various playstyles, from stealth to brawling, and we sometimes design areas to encourage a particular approach to keep gameplay dynamic.

Narrative and Exploration
For spaces focused on story and exploration, our approach shifts. Here, the goal is to provide opportunities for discovery and to guide you towards interesting moments organically. These environments are meant to contrast with combat-heavy areas, offering a slower pace. These spaces invite you to linger and delve deeper into the lore of our world.

Balancing the Experience
Finally, while each space is carefully crafted to fulfill its specific role, we also ensure a balanced mix throughout the game. The interplay between fast-paced action areas and more serene, narrative-rich environments keeps the gameplay experience fresh and engaging.

In summary, our level design philosophy revolves around maximizing the potential of your Vampire abilities, tailoring spaces to their intended purpose, and maintaining a balanced and engaging pace throughout the game. We can’t wait for you to experience the world we’ve built in Bloodlines 2.”

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- The Chinese Room’s Level Designer Amy Lee
Production
“We are recording!
My role in Production supports the cinematics and interactive dialogue pipeline, collaborating with the Narrative team to deliver scripts to the VO studio and planning the workflow with the animation team. This involves a lot of spreadsheets, Miro boards, and multiple overlapping schedules. Despite the logistical challenges, it’s incredibly rewarding when recording starts and we see our nighttime Seattle residents come to unlife—sometimes in unexpected ways!'

A crucial step in the process is ensuring everyone involved understands the dialogue branches and character reactions to player choices, maintaining consistent performance across branches. Watching our VO Director and talented cast navigate these complex branches and deliver is truly inspiring.

I feel incredibly fortunate to see this process through. It's exactly why I joined TCR: to bring engaging narratives to life. I’m thrilled for everyone to interact with these wonderful characters.
I've experienced everything from laughter to shivers during some of the VO sessions, and I can’t wait for people to enjoy them just as much as I’ve enjoyed witnessing them.”

- The Chinese Room’s Producer Lee Clarke

We're taking a Summer break but will return with more Dev Diaries in August! Feel free to join us on Discord or follow us on socials! Bloodlines 2 Twitter, Bloodlines 2 Facebook & Instagram.
 
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Bloodlines 2 has a 20 minute long video where they talk about RPG features like how clans now have relationships with each other and your clan will change how characters react to you. If you act outside of your clan's stereotypes, characters react to that too. Almost like, you know, a living world. You can choose to reveal hidden information to others or keep that information hidden and the game will react to it over time as the plots of other characters play out. Here's a direct quote, even:

"In a social situation you might be trying to butter someone up. You might be trying to stomp someone into submission. You might be trying to play your cards, show your hand, or keep your hand close to your chest and it's all about strategy at the end of the game."
A 20 minuet video of a dev waffling like tod Howard or Peter Molyneux making promises with no evidence to back any of their claims up you and Mr Vinland on the reddit / discord regurgitate the same statements over and over like gospel as "Evidence", How many games promise the world but fail to deliver this is why people are dissatisfied with the dreadful state of these dev diaries.
 
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The thing is, I want this game to be good. Just like I want Avowed, or TES6, to be good. I will always appreciate a new RPG. But I'm just not seeing it, here. Admittedly I only got into this rather late, after Mitsoda had been fired, but I've been following the development since then and I just don't get it. It's not speaking to me like many other games have. Not coming in here with malicious purposes, I'm just wondering where (from my perspective) it went wrong. And I suppose the issue is that that's the prevailing sentiment throughout the forums/Reddit or wherever - and that's the issue. A commercial ill-showing might spell the end for VtM RPGs as a whole, which is sad to see, no matter how critically good or bad this game might come out as.

Well, I've said my platitudes.
 
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A 20 minuet video of a dev waffling like tod Howard or Peter Molyneux making promises with no evidence to back any of their claims up you and Mr Vinland on the reddit / discord regurgitate the same statements over and over like gospel as "Evidence", How many games promise the world but fail to deliver this is why people are dissatisfied with the dreadful state of these dev diaries.
If you've decided that the developers and publishers are conspiring to con you, then there's not much point in having a discussion about it. You've veered into conspiracy theory territory. You can't actually substantiate your conspiracy with anything. If asked for any proof that the developers of Bloodlines 2 are lying about the contents of their game in official developer diaries, you'll definitely come back with exactly nothing. Any evidence we can show you from official sources is just going to be portrayed as part of the conspiracy to deceive you.

Like if you believe that, why are you even here? That's not a rhetorical question, either. If you believe the developer diaries are just lies, why even come here to the official website and read the developer diaries?

If you've had your conspiracy theories challenged here, reddit, and discord (LOL???) like you claim, then maybe it's not us. Maybe it's you. Well, think it over.
 
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The thing is, I want this game to be good. Just like I want Avowed, or TES6, to be good. I will always appreciate a new RPG. But I'm just not seeing it, here. Admittedly I only got into this rather late, after Mitsoda had been fired, but I've been following the development since then and I just don't get it. It's not speaking to me like many other games have. Not coming in here with malicious purposes, I'm just wondering where (from my perspective) it went wrong. And I suppose the issue is that that's the prevailing sentiment throughout the forums/Reddit or wherever - and that's the issue. A commercial ill-showing might spell the end for VtM RPGs as a whole, which is sad to see, no matter how critically good or bad this game might come out as.

Well, I've said my platitudes.
Not every game is for everyone. Maybe Bloodlines 2 isn't for you. It is for me and many others. The best selling RPG of all time is The Witcher 3, a game with a fixed protagonist who has voice acting. A lot of people really like this type of game. The people who like Bloodlines 2 will play Bloodlines 2, you'll play games that you like, and that's okay.
 
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Not every game is for everyone. Maybe Bloodlines 2 isn't for you. It is for me and many others. The best selling RPG of all time is The Witcher 3, a game with a fixed protagonist who has voice acting. A lot of people really like this type of game. The people who like Bloodlines 2 will play Bloodlines 2, you'll play games that you like, and that's okay.
You love making wild claims that aren't based on facts to simply push your narrative. The best selling RPG of all time is Skyrim, a game that does not have a fixed protagonist who is voice acted.
 
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You love making wild claims that aren't based on facts to simply push your narrative. The best selling RPG of all time is Skyrim, a game that does not have a fixed protagonist who is voice acted.

Witcher 3 passed 50 million last year and it has been selling 5 mil a year, consistently. It hasn't stopped, either. Even if you believe everything Todd Howard says (and you clearly do), even by his narrative, Witcher 3 is about to pull ahead.
 
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Witcher 3 passed 50 million last year and it has been selling 5 mil a year, consistently. It hasn't stopped, either. Even if you believe everything Todd Howard says (and you clearly do), even by his narrative, Witcher 3 is about to pull ahead.
So you you get to arbitrarily decide which developer's claims are to be believed and which aren't? Because the source you linked regarding the sales of Baldur's Gate 1 was simply the claims of a developer, and not even the developer of the original game (Bioware), but the developer of of the Enhanced Edition (Beamdog). The claim that Witcher 3 has sold 50 million is also based on what the developers have told us. So Beamdog and CD Projekt Red claims are trustworthy and Todd Howard's are not because....you said so?
 
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So you you get to arbitrarily decide which developer's claims are to be believed and which aren't? Because the source you linked regarding the sales of Baldur's Gate 1 was simply the claims of a developer, and not even the developer of the original game (Bioware), but the developer of of the Enhanced Edition (Beamdog). The claim that Witcher 3 has sold 50 million is also based on what the developers have told us. So Beamdog and CD Projekt Red claims are trustworthy and Todd Howard's are not because....you said so?
First of all, you didn't post any source for your Baldur's Gate claim at all. I did. You did not. You're welcome to post one now if you'd like, not that it matters, because you conceded the point anyway.

I said if you want to believe everything Todd Howard says (and you clearly do), that's fine. I'm not sure what else you want from me other than consent to believe every single thing that Todd Howard says. What exactly is your grievance? Do you know or are you just being contrarian? Even by his numbers, Witcher 3 is about to pass his game.
 
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First of all, you didn't post any source for your Baldur's Gate claim at all. I did. You did not. You're welcome to post one now if you'd like, not that it matters, because you conceded the point anyway.

I said if you want to believe everything Todd Howard says (and you clearly do), that's fine. I'm not sure what else you want from me other than consent to believe every single thing that Todd Howard says. What exactly is your grievance? Do you know or are you just being contrarian? Even by his numbers, Witcher 3 is about to pass his game.
I have no grievance. My main point has already been expressed and you have not contested it, which is that several of Bioware's top 10 selling games are older ones that did not have the dialogue wheel. And I have already pointed out many of the inaccuracies you've been stating on here quite liberally, including that DA: Inquisition was Bioware's top selling game (which you didn't contest, instead you edited your reply to correct your false statement), that Inquisition sold more than DA: Origins, KOTOR, and Baldur's Gate 1 & 2 combined several times over (blatantly false, no idea what you were thinking with this one), and that Witcher 3 sold more than Skyrim (you've already consented to being wrong here too).

I'm personally not opposed to dialogue wheels and I don't have an issue with Bloodlines 2 having them. I absolutely adore the Mass Effect series, and Inquisition was fun enough. I also really enjoy RPGs without dialogue wheels, with the recent Baldur's Gate 3 (obviously not a Bioware game) being a fantastic example of this being done well. I do think that Bioware's older games are better, with KOTOR and DA: Origins being my two favorites (Mass Effect 2 is my 3rd favorite though). But I don't think that the dialogue wheels are the problem with recent Bioware games. Frankly, I just want a good RPG, with fun mechanics, a great story, and interesting characters. I hope Bloodlines 2 is all these things, but unfortunately nothing the developers have shown yet makes me confident it will be. With so little being shown or discussed in these dev diaries thus far, it seems we might have to wait until the game releases to have a good idea of what the devs have and have not achieved in creating.
 
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So you admit that Skyrim has sold better? ;)
No, I'm saying that if you don't believe everything Todd Howard says, it's not true but if you are one of the very few people who thinks Todd Howard never lies (like the contrarian people who spent the last 6 months coming here to complain about BL2 based on nothing), then it's about to be not true. Take your pick! :rolleyes:


I have no grievance. My main point has already been expressed and you have not contested it, which is that several of Bioware's top 10 selling games are older ones that did not have the dialogue wheel. And I have already pointed out many of the inaccuracies you've been stating on here quite liberally, including that DA: Inquisition was Bioware's top selling game (which you didn't contest, instead you edited your reply to correct your false statement), that Inquisition sold more than DA: Origins, KOTOR, and Baldur's Gate 1 & 2 combined several times over (blatantly false, no idea what you were thinking with this one), and that Witcher 3 sold more than Skyrim (you've already consented to being wrong here too).

I'm personally not opposed to dialogue wheels and I don't have an issue with Bloodlines 2 having them. I absolutely adore the Mass Effect series, and Inquisition was fun enough. I also really enjoy RPGs without dialogue wheels, with the recent Baldur's Gate 3 (obviously not a Bioware game) being a fantastic example of this being done well. I do think that Bioware's older games are better, with KOTOR and DA: Origins being my two favorites (Mass Effect 2 is my 3rd favorite though). But I don't think that the dialogue wheels are the problem with recent Bioware games. Frankly, I just want a good RPG, with fun mechanics, a great story, and interesting characters. I hope Bloodlines 2 is all these things, but unfortunately nothing the developers have shown yet makes me confident it will be. With so little being shown or discussed in these dev diaries thus far, it seems we might have to wait until the game releases to have a good idea of what the devs have and have not achieved in creating.
You have no grievance? Oh, so you are posting to be contrarian then. That was my question. lol

Your point was contested and successfully debunked. I once again asked for your sources and once again your sources come out to "trust me bro." Your point was that BioWare's "best selling games" actually refers to its 10th best selling game and such. This is a studio with less than 20 retail games. You may as well be bragging about the one that got into the top 15 (out of 20) or something. You conceded the point when you acknowledged that the the studio's top two 2 games are both dialogue wheel games. I accepted your concession.

If you would like to learn about the content of Bloodlines 2, I invite you to watch developer diary recap 2. It's a very good video about the game's story, writing, personal choices, a general RPG goodness.
 
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You have no grievance? Oh, so you are posting to be contrarian then. That was my question. lol

Your point was contested and successfully debunked. I once again asked for your sources and once again your sources come out to "trust me bro." Your point was that BioWare's "best selling games" actually refers to its 10th best selling game and such. This is a studio with less than 20 retail games. You may as well be bragging about the one that got into the top 15 (out of 20) or something. You conceded the point when you acknowledged that the the studio's top two 2 games are both dialogue wheel games. I accepted your concession.

If you would like to learn about the content of Bloodlines 2, I invite you to watch developer diary recap 2. It's a very good video about the game's story, writing, personal choices, a general RPG goodness.
You don't have the authority to present me with an "either/or" choice and demand that I choose one of them. Neither of those choices were true, I did not have a grievance and I was not posting to be contrarian. I posted to point out the many inaccuracies that you were gleefully spreading, as I already told you. And do you even know what contrarian means? Because based on the the agrees/likes vs disagrees of both of our comments in this thread, "if" anyone is being contrarian, it's you. I'm not saying that you are, because I think you genuinely believe the things you're saying and aren't simply saying them to disagree with everyone else, however if anyone is going against the general or popular opinion of this particular thread, it is you.

And again you're posting inaccuracies. None of those four games I listed were the 10th best selling game of Bioware, they were all just under that. And no you still have not "debunked" my point, which was that all four of those games listed are in Bioware's top 10 selling games. If I'm wrong, then please list Bioware's top 10 selling games in order to show that none of those games are in the top 10. I know you won't do this, because it would prove you wrong and you've already been proven wrong too many times in this thread at this point.

To your last comment, I'll have to check out the developer diary recap 2, as I don't think I've watched that yet. I generally prefer to read dev diary type content if they're not going to show gameplay, but perhaps they'll say something that the written DDs haven't covered.
 
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You don't have the authority to present me with an "either/or" choice and demand that I choose one of them. Neither of those choices were true, I did not have a grievance and I was not posting to be contrarian. I posted to point out the many inaccuracies that you were gleefully spreading, as I already told you. And do you even know what contrarian means? Because based on the the agrees/likes vs disagrees of both of our comments in this thread, "if" anyone is being contrarian, it's you. I'm not saying that you are, because I think you genuinely believe the things you're saying and aren't simply saying them to disagree with everyone else, however if anyone is going against the general or popular opinion of this particular thread, it is you.

And again you're posting inaccuracies. None of those four games I listed were the 10th best selling game of Bioware, they were all just under that. And no you still have not "debunked" my point, which was that all four of those games listed are in Bioware's top 10 selling games. If I'm wrong, then please list Bioware's top 10 selling games in order to show that none of those games are in the top 10. I know you won't do this, because it would prove you wrong and you've already been proven wrong too many times in this thread at this point.

To your last comment, I'll have to check out the developer diary recap 2, as I don't think I've watched that yet. I generally prefer to read dev diary type content if they're not going to show gameplay, but perhaps they'll say something that the written DDs haven't covered.
Fella, you've derailed this entire developer diary for 2 pages to be militantly contrarian. You surrendered when you admitted that both of BioWare's top sellers are dialogue wheel games. "But the 12th best selling game..." isn't the amazing damage control you think it is. It's done. It's over. You can stop writing novellas on an internet message board at me now. You had no sources for your claims, unlike me. I'm also not going to research your claims for you. The burden of proof is on you to prove your claims.

The fact that you haven't seen the developer diary 2 recap is the real problem around here. Paradox posts a wealth of information that people willfully ignore because the evidence gets in the way of unhinged hysteria.

 
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Fella, you've derailed this entire developer diary for 2 pages to be militantly contrarian. You surrendered when you admitted that both of BioWare's top sellers are dialogue wheel games. "But the 12th best selling game..." isn't the amazing damage control you think it is. It's done. It's over. You can stop writing novellas on an internet message board at me now. You had no sources for your claims, unlike me. I'm also not going to research your claims for you. The burden of proof is on you to prove your claims.
You clearly don't know the meaning of the word contrarian. And again, none of those games I listed are the 12th best selling Bioware game, you can state this as many times as you want and it doesn't make it any more true than any of the many, many other incorrect statements you've made on this thread (many of which you've already admitted to being wrong about). And you're the one who derailed this thread, arguing with everyone who is disappointed with the information being presented in these dev diaries just months away from launch. You've posted considerably more times on the thread of this internet message board than anyone else, seems strange to try and belittle me for doing something you're doing more of.

The fact that you haven't seen the developer diary 2 recap is the real problem around here. Paradox posts a wealth of information that people willfully ignore because the evidence gets in the way of unhinged hysteria.
I've read all the dev diaries and watched all the trailers. Missing one dev diary recap is not "willfully ignoring" all the "wealth" of information. Now you're just being rude and disrespectful. This is an internet message board, it's not that serious and such behavior is not necessary. I assume it's because you can't handle how poorly you've been made to look, but in the future perhaps don't willfully post inaccurate information so often while arguing with every other user on this sub-forum. Finally, as I've already stated, this dev diary recap doesn't look like something I would enjoy. I generally don't like watching developers talk about games in videos that don't contain gameplay, as I prefer to read this information and many times these videos contain a lot of fluff I don't care about. Add to that the developers describing the game they had hoped to make instead of the game they actually made, and the value of them is questionable. Not saying this is the case with this video, as I haven't watched it yet, but just my general experience in the past.
 
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Dev Diary said:
We’ve also been extending the combat system to allow many NPCs to fight, and for pedestrians to fight too with a just-in-time switch from the MassAI system to regular instanced characters, and we’ve made them able to fight each other when the circumstances are right – it’s very entertaining.
This is the first thing I've read or heard about this game that does sound like actual fun.

“For my Quests, I like to lean into the protagonist's nature as an outsider in a foreign land. Seattle may at first seem inconsequential to an Elder Vampire but, powerful as you are, you're still at the bottom of the ladder. Phyre must quickly react to a Kindred power structure in chaos and the early missions in the city reflect this.

Rejection by those in power would mean certain befalling, and so Phyre must prove their worthiness to Seattle's elite. Many of my quests follow this thread of pressure being applied to our protagonist. For players to run the gauntlet through Seattle, deciding which relationships to nurture and which to break.
It's hilarious how much PR there is about "Phyre the Elder" (powerful and with a history) and how much the game design is "it's the same as always" in contrast.

... also we're kinda given up on pretending it's the player's story now? ^^ At least it's more honest, I guess.

We are recording!
Well, guess we're stuck with the writing style and quality now.
 
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You clearly don't know the meaning of the word contrarian. And again, none of those games I listed are the 12th best selling Bioware game, you can state this as many times as you want and it doesn't make it any more true than any of the many, many other incorrect statements you've made on this thread (many of which you've already admitted to being wrong about). And you're the one who derailed this thread, arguing with everyone who is disappointed with the information being presented in these dev diaries just months away from launch. You've posted considerably more times on the thread of this internet message board than anyone else, seems strange to try and belittle me for doing something you're doing more of.


I've read all the dev diaries and watched all the trailers. Missing one dev diary recap is not "willfully ignoring" all the "wealth" of information. Now you're just being rude and disrespectful. This is an internet message board, it's not that serious and such behavior is not necessary. I assume it's because you can't handle how poorly you've been made to look, but in the future perhaps don't willfully post inaccurate information so often while arguing with every other user on this sub-forum. Finally, as I've already stated, this dev diary recap doesn't look like something I would enjoy. I generally don't like watching developers talk about games in videos that don't contain gameplay, as I prefer to read this information and many times these videos contain a lot of fluff I don't care about. Add to that the developers describing the game they had hoped to make instead of the game they actually made, and the value of them is questionable. Not saying this is the case with this video, as I haven't watched it yet, but just my general experience in the past.
I definitely know the meaning of it. You admitted you were wrong when you were forced to admit that BioWare's best selling games are dialogue wheel games. KOTOR is far down the list of best selling BioWare games and is not one of the top best selling games. It's just frantic backpedalling. Arguing for the sake of arguing. You couldn't find any evidence to substantiate any of your claims. Nothing at all. I keep asking for proof and you ask me to go find proof of your claims for you. If I say 2 + 2 = 4, you say it's 5 and ask me to find proof that it's not 5. Contrarianism.

Disagreeing with people about Bloodlines 2 isn't derailing anything. This is the Bloodlines 2 board. Derailing it would be refusing to talk about Bloodlines 2 because you feel the need to defend Todd Howard (for some reason). lmao

You've been attacking me, personally, for 2 pages while doing everything possible to purposely go off-topic and now you're claiming I'm being disrespectful. Please check the wikipedia link on projection I posted earlier. Thank you.

The proof that you're wrong has been posted and you refuse to watch because it's inconvenient to your narrative.
 
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I definitely know the meaning of it. You admitted you were wrong when you were forced to admit that BioWare's best selling games are dialogue wheel games. KOTOR is far down the list of best selling BioWare games and is not one of the top best selling games. It's just frantic backpedalling. Arguing for the sake of arguing. You couldn't find any evidence to substantiate any of your claims. Nothing at all. I keep asking for proof and you ask me to go find proof of your claims for you. If I say 2 + 2 = 4, you say it's 5 and ask me to find proof that it's not 5. Contrarianism.
That example would be contrarianism because it's disagreeing with the majority held opinion. Most everyone agrees that 2 + 2 = 4, so to disagree with just about everyone else for no other reason that to disagree, is contrarian. Your opinion in our discussion does not represent the majority opinion, in fact quite the opposite. The idea that you think that your own belief is the majority without any evidence of this being true shows an insane level of arrogance.

I'm not disagreeing to some well established fact, I'm disagreeing with the incorrect statements which you have continually posted on this thread. I've proven you wrong multiple times, and you've admitted to this. Now you keep demanding that I provide proof to prove more of your incorrect statements wrong. How much research do have to do for you? Perhaps it's about time that do your own research to prove your statement, "that all of the four games I listed are not in the top ten best selling Bioware games." Or maybe perhaps stop posting incorrect statements.

Disagreeing with people about Bloodlines 2 isn't derailing anything. This is the Bloodlines 2 board. Derailing it would be refusing to talk about Bloodlines 2 because you feel the need to defend Todd Howard (for some reason). lmao
I never defended Todd Howard. Please post evidence of this happening. Or is this again you posting an incorrect statement to push your crazy narrative? I asked you why the sales numbers put out by Beamdog and CD Projekt Red should be considered trustworthy, but the sales numbers stated by Todd Howard are to be distrusted. You declined to answer this question. This was not defending Howard on my part, it was applying the same standard to all developers rather than arbitrarily deciding which should be believed and which shouldn't as you are doing.

The proof that you're wrong has been posted and you refuse to watch because it's inconvenient to your narrative.
I never "refused" to watch the dev diary recap video if that's what you're referring to. In fact I said I hadn't watched it yet but that I intended to, despite not generally liking these types of videos. That's the exact opposite of "refusing" to watch it. Again you're making things up to support your narrative.
 
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That example would be contrarianism because it's disagreeing with the majority held opinion. Most everyone agrees that 2 + 2 = 4, so to disagree with just about everyone else for no other reason that to disagree, is contrarian. Your opinion in our discussion does not represent the majority opinion, in fact quite the opposite. The idea that you think that your own belief is the majority without any evidence of this being true shows an insane level of arrogance.

I'm not disagreeing to some well established fact, I'm disagreeing with the incorrect statements which you have continually posted on this thread. I've proven you wrong multiple times, and you've admitted to this. Now you keep demanding that I provide proof to prove more of your incorrect statements wrong. How much research do have to do for you? Perhaps it's about time that do your own research to prove your statement, "that all of the four games I listed are not in the top ten best selling Bioware games." Or maybe perhaps stop posting incorrect statements.


I never defended Todd Howard. Please post evidence of this happening. Or is this again you posting an incorrect statement to push your crazy narrative? I asked you why the sales numbers put out by Beamdog and CD Projekt Red should be considered trustworthy, but the sales numbers stated by Todd Howard are to be distrusted. You declined to answer this question. This was not defending Howard on my part, it was applying the same standard to all developers rather than arbitrarily deciding which should be believed and which shouldn't as you are doing.


I never "refused" to watch the dev diary recap video if that's what you're referring to. In fact I said I hadn't watched it yet but that I intended to, despite not generally liking these types of videos. That's the exact opposite of "refusing" to watch it. Again you're making things up to support your narrative.
5 people coming to a message board to yell at the publisher and for no other purpose isn't a "majority" of Paradox consumers. We've jumped from one fallacy to another. Now you're arguing that if most people in a room say 2 + 2 = 5, it's true because a majority believe it. What lacks evidence is all of your previous claims. I keep asking you to show any evidence and you keep refusing to post any. You won't even acknowledge it anymore. You just skip it over and hope I forget about. Why can't you find any evidence for your previous claims?

You're disagreeing with established fact. I linked to evidence. You had no response to it. You're trying to dispute the numbers I linked to with nothing at all.

I pointed out that one of your claims had no evidence behind it other than "Saint Todd said so" and you've been losing your mind over it for hours. That sounds like a defence. lol

If you have hours to post contrarian damage control, then you have 20 minutes to watch a video from the developers that completely debunks your narrative. :)
 
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5 people coming to a message board to yell at the publisher and for no other purpose isn't a "majority" of Paradox consumers. We've jumped from one fallacy to another. Now you're arguing that if most people in a room say 2 + 2 = 5, it's true because a majority believe it. What lacks evidence is all of your previous claims. I keep asking you to show any evidence and you keep refusing to post any. You won't even acknowledge it anymore. You just skip it over and hope I forget about. Why can't you find any evidence for your previous claims?
I didn't say it was a majority of Paradox consumers, in fact I very clearly stated that it was the majority of those in this thread. Please stop lying, it makes talking to you very difficult. Do you have evidence that the majority of Paradox consumers agree with you in this matter? No, I didn't think so.

You're disagreeing with established fact. I linked to evidence. You had no response to it. You're trying to dispute the numbers I linked to with nothing at all.
What established fact am I disagreeing with? The source you posted stated that Baldur's Gate sold 2.8 million (3.8 if counting the Enhanced Edition), and this was as of 9 years ago (thus the numbers have certainly gone up). Even when not counting the sales of the Enhanced Edition or any sales made over the last 9 years. this still makes it one of the top 10 selling games for Bioware. So basically, the source that you posted already proved me correct, and that was just one of the four games that I listed that you claimed were not in the top 10. Why must I post an additional source when the one your provided already proves me correct?

I pointed out that one of your claims had no evidence behind it other than "Saint Todd said so" and you've been losing your mind over it for hours. That sounds like a defence. lol
I'm hardly "losing my mind," just enjoying a conversation on this here internet message board. If anyone is losing their mind, it's you. Hence why you've gotten increasingly more rude and incoherent the longer this discussion continues. I have no reason to defend Todd Howard. I do wonder why can you not answer the following question.
Why should the sales numbers put out by Beamdog and CD Projekt Red be considered trustworthy, but the sales numbers stated by Todd Howard should not?

Is it because you don't have an answer that isn't "because I arbitrarily said so!"

If you have hours to post contrarian damage control, then you have 20 minutes to watch a video from the developers that completely debunks your narrative. :)
What narrative will it debunk? I don't have a narrative, I have an opinion about all the many dev diaries I've read and the trailers I've seen. If this 20 minute video has all the information that will make this game sound like everything I want it to be, but 14 dev diaries and gameplay video couldn't do it, then the developers are doing something really wrong here.

It's on my YouTube watchlist, I'll watch it when I feel like watching a video, not when you demand me to watch it.
 
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I didn't say it was a majority of Paradox consumers, in fact I very clearly stated that it was the majority of those in this thread. Please stop lying, it makes talking to you very difficult. Do you have evidence that the majority of Paradox consumers agree with you in this matter? No, I didn't think so.


What established fact am I disagreeing with? The source you posted stated that Baldur's Gate sold 2.8 million (3.8 if counting the Enhanced Edition), and this was as of 9 years ago (thus the numbers have certainly gone up). Even when not counting the sales of the Enhanced Edition or any sales made over the last 9 years. this still makes it one of the top 10 selling games for Bioware. So basically, the source that you posted already proved me correct, and that was just one of the four games that I listed that you claimed were not in the top 10. Why must I post an additional source when the one your provided already proves me correct?


I'm hardly "losing my mind," just enjoying a conversation on this here internet message board. If anyone is losing their mind, it's you. Hence why you've gotten increasingly more rude and incoherent the longer this discussion continues. I have no reason to defend Todd Howard. I do wonder why can you not answer the following question.
Why should the sales numbers put out by Beamdog and CD Projekt Red be considered trustworthy, but the sales numbers stated by Todd Howard should not?

Is it because you don't have an answer that isn't "because I arbitrarily said so!"


What narrative will it debunk? I don't have a narrative, I have an opinion about all the many dev diaries I've read and the trailers I've seen. If this 20 minute video has all the information that will make this game sound like everything I want it to be, but 14 dev diaries and gameplay video couldn't do it, then the developers are doing something really wrong here.

It's on my YouTube watchlist, I'll watch it when I feel like watching a video, not when you demand me to watch it.
Okay, so they're not the majority of Paradox consumers and they don't actually represent anything. Just 5 people complaining for the sake of complaining. That's the confession I was looking for, thank you!

All I've done is ask you to post evidence for your sources. In response to this, you call me incoherent while also claiming I'm being rude (impervious to irony?). Why can't you find any evidence for your claims? I'm asking you to post links that contain evidence for any of your claims. You keep refusing to do so and just insult me over and over and over again. What's the matter?

You're not going to watch it because it's evidence that you don't want to see, period. If you watch it, it hinders your ability to complain about the game.


So, let's just end this here. You couldn't find any evidence for your claims. You're just posting to get the last word in. Go for it.
 
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