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Developer Diary #25: Advanced Combat and Weapons

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Hello Kindred,

It’s been about a year since we last talked about combat in Dev Diary 7, so the team have put this article together to give you a deeper dive into the things you can do as you go bump in the night.

Brawling​

When blades come out in BL2, unless you've taken extra care to isolate your prey, you're going to be outnumbered. While several discipline abilities can help you escape or swiftly resolve a fight, you'll need to do a bit of brawling when those options aren't available. Spacing is key - your basic attacks can make short work of individuals but are risky when you're getting sliced apart from all sides.

The basic attacks get used a lot, so during their development, I was keen to make time to give each clan their own set. Banu is sharp and fast, Ventrue firm and precise, Tremere has a bit more reach to let you maintain distance, and Brujah, well, punches stuff. It’s a small thing, but I found it really helped people get into the attitude and poise of their current clan.

Dashing is an ability Phyre can use regardless of clan and is critical for maintaining distance. It can even be used aggressively - dashing forwards into a strike right as it hits will break your opponent's guard and leave them open for a counterattack, though this is best suited for one-on-one situations.


Kicks are another useful tool and are great for handling groups - done by attacking straight after a dash, you can pick which type you use with your movement direction. A big swinging roundhouse can stumble a large group but won't create much space - whereas a backkick can send a single enemy soaring away. Both you and your opponents will be able to resist attacks used repeatedly, so you'll want to mix things up a bit to stay on top.


While kicks are great for getting opponents away from you, telekinesis is perfect for bringing them close. You can use it to yank a chosen target in for a follow-up or a feed, though consider that Kindred and their ghouls may be expecting this.

Telekinesis can also earn a quick kill when used to pull an unsuspecting enemy near the edge of a rooftop, causing them to fall to their death on the street below.


Breakable objects, like bottles and ashtrays, can be grabbed using telekinesis and then thrown to create a noise, distracting enemies. If you really want to create a bang, pick up and throw an explosive, such as a gas tank – a good way to hurt several enemies at once.

Telekinesis can also be used to pick up weapons from the dead, from knives to sniper rifles. A goal of Phyre’s combat design was to be fast and fluid, so we incorporated the use of Telekinesis with weapon use to maintain speed and flow – you can kill one opponent, dump their gun’s magazine into a second, and toss it at a third to open them up for your next attack.


This can be even more useful when used in tandem with discipline abilities. For example, Tremere's explosive blood curse can be triggered from a distance with a well-placed shot, and Brujah's taunt (when used with mass manipulation) can encourage a whole team of opponents to drop their weapons, allowing you to turn them on their owners.


And, of course, the bigger they come, the harder they fall- When fighting enemies equipped with explosives, telekinesis can lead to an even more devastating turnabout.
- Senior Game Designer Max Bottomley

Elixirs​

Our setting of Seattle features a large population of Thin-bloods: weaker vampires who use alchemy to create powerful “elixirs” that give access to the vampiric powers they otherwise could not. As you explore, you can find and collect these elixirs to give you an edge in combat or help level the playing field in a difficult boss encounter.

The four elixirs Phyre can use are:
  • Mending Elixir – Instantly restores health, allowing you to avoid final death.
  • Blood Elixir – Instantly restores blood pips for your abilities, great for continuing ability combo chains.
  • Potence Elixir – Temporarily boosts your strength, increasing the damage caused by your attacks.
  • Fortitude Elixir – Temporarily turns your skin to marble, reducing the damage you take from attacks.

Ability Combos​

Having recently started a playthrough to test out my favourite Clan Tremere, I’ve enjoyed the sense of space control a well-planned fight can give you. Starting out by placing Recall up high so that I can teleport away if it gets out of hand.

Later in the game, mixing Disciplines from different Clans can make fighting more powerful Kindred much easier. There are a lot of useful combinations that Ventrue’s Mass Manipulation can provide to manage many combatants at once. The effect of Banu Haqim’s Mute on a group can make sure the battle will go unnoticed by nearby enemies. And it’s not just your own powers but the environment that you’ll have to observe, helping you find tools that are left lying around.

Not all enemies will go down that easily, and I’m really excited for you all to learn how much trouble you’ll be in when you face off against your first Kindred foe. Their powers can quickly make well-planned fights go wrong if you’re knocked over and surrounded.

Using Cauldron of Blood to draw everyone to the screaming victim and then picking one of them to explode with Blood Curse can blast a lot of the crowd away before I even get close to the fighting. And when it does go wrong, as it always will eventually, a quick Blood Curse on the ghoul chasing you can serve as a very handy projectile if you kick them into the people behind them!


Nobody’s invulnerable to an exploding gas bottle telekinetically thrown at their head, and they’re easier to aim at when you’ve locked them in place with Mass Manipulation. If everything else fails then you can just use Possession on a ghoul and make them jump somewhere nobody will notice them…
- Josh Mathews, TCR Community Manager

Difficulty Settings​

While difficulty settings are a standard feature for action RPGs, we thought we’d mention that they are included because we recognise our audience's varied preferences for challenges and strive to accommodate them with carefully designed difficulty settings.

For players primarily interested in narrative and exploration, Easy mode ensures a smooth experience by making combat encounters more manageable.

Normal mode represents the intended balance of the game, challenging players to adapt and use a mix of stealth, combat, abilities, and elixirs to succeed.

For those seeking a more formidable challenge, Hard mode delivers an Elder Vampire experience, demanding mastery of all your skills and strategies.


Difficulty Settings.png

- Project Design Director Jey Hicks

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Looking good!

I like how many-faceted the combat seems to be. Multiple different ways to combine discipline powers and on top of that there's some sorta special counter moves too? Sweet.

I notice that dominate power still has that glowing yellow effect which Im not a fan of, but at least in the mass manipulation its not as *glaring* as with the terminal decree..
 
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I don't understand why the design team are dying on this hill, having an inventory is the one thing the player base can agree on.

Some of us don't like or want the fist fighter in our playstyle.
 
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I don't understand why the design team are dying on this hill, having an inventory is the one thing the player base can agree on.
Does Dishonored have an Inventory? So neither has Punchlines 2. Think Dishono-lite BUT without immersive sim, or stealth, or moral choices, or exploration, or alternate paths, or interesting story, or anything else other than arena fights against copy/pasted enemies...

It's the 0451 design philosophy reduced to the 0.
 
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Does Dishonored have an Inventory? So neither has Punchlines 2. Think Dishono-lite BUT without immersive sim, or stealth, or moral choices, or exploration, or alternate paths, or interesting story, or anything else other than arena fights against copy/pasted enemies...

It's the 0451 design philosophy reduced to the 0.
Except for the fact that they've shown off literally everything you're saying it doesn't have in other dev diaries or in the trailers. On top of that, the games not even out yet? If you're going to insist on being negative at least get your facts right. Also, since when did being inspired by Dishonored become a bad thing? It's an excellent game and a good one to draw inspiration from for a vampire game of all things especially.
 
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Does Dishonored have an Inventory? So neither has Punchlines 2. Think Dishono-lite BUT without immersive sim, or stealth, or moral choices, or exploration, or alternate paths, or interesting story, or anything else other than arena fights against copy/pasted enemies...

It's the 0451 design philosophy reduced to the 0.
Yes Dishonoured had an inventory, you had a sword and a gun and a crossbow, along with some ammunition for both. Frankly I'd be happy with that in bloodlines 2.

But to be honest what dishonoured has or had doesn't really matter to me. Bloodlines 1 has this and now we don't.
 
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I don't understand why the design team are dying on this hill, having an inventory is the one thing the player base can agree on.

Realistically... Doing an inventory and having all the separate items would require a lot of work. TCR may not have the manpower to do that. It may also be made with the consoles in mind Im afraid..

I am honestly happy they did the professional thing and set their bar lower, so they could actually clear it, which will hopefully lead to the game being actually launched.
I continue to believe.
 
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Realistically... Doing an inventory and having all the separate items would require a lot of work.
Would it? They already have to have all the item models, animations, utilities and the functionality of equipping/unequipping items to do what they are currently preposing. the only thing I can think that they would need to implement it would the UI, which isn't nothing but it's really shakes confidence in this project if that the step to far.
 
No info or maybe some pics on what kind of weapons we'll be getting in game?
I was under impression that levitating gun snatched from enemy and our own fists/disciplines are quite litterally our only options.

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Would it?
Honestly ... most likely.
I still dont really think that is a valid excuse tho, but it most likely would be "a lot of work" ... just as basicaly everything on basicaly eveery game is. :)

They already have to have all the item models, animations, utilities and the functionality of equipping/unequipping items
What makes you say that?

And please keep in mind that NPCs doing those things are quite different story and most of that work would be at best half salvageable to use. :)
 
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What makes you say that?

And please keep in mind that NPCs doing those things are quite different story and most of that work would be at best half salvageable to use. :)
Telekinesis can also be used to pick up weapons from the dead, from knives to sniper rifles. A goal of Phyre’s combat design was to be fast and fluid, so we incorporated the use of Telekinesis with weapon use to maintain speed and flow – you can kill one opponent, dump their gun’s magazine into a second, and toss it at a third to open them up for your next attack.
I assumed this meant you use telekinesis to take the weapons and then use them normally until they run out. At which point you need a way to tell if the player has a weapon in their hand, a model to represent the weapon in the players hand, an animation to show the weapon in hand, an animation to show the weapon being used, and an effect of what happens if the weapon is used on the enemy.

EDIT: never mind I've found the animations it's all telekinetic so they would need to make new animations and models for an inventory system, I'd still rather have but it would be a lot of work to do at this point
 
As I understand it, the developers forgot to add the option of picking up and physically using weapons by the main character?

This seems like a very serious oversight. The ability to equip your character with weapons and armor is more important than adding potions in a vampire game. While healing can be reduced to the level of the "blood healing" skill or something like that, weapons and armor play a significant and invaluable role in an RPG game.
Since the game's release date has not been revealed yet, I would advise developers to focus on fixing the above-mentioned oversight and add an equipment screen and the ability for the main character to physically use weapons. You can ignore projectile weapons because, as we know, vampires usually don't care about projectiles, so unless they are special sacred bullets or a flamethrower/large-calibre weapon, there will be a justification for Phyre not using projectile weapons. The situation is different with melee weapons. Here, melee weapons will find wide application. From stakes that will permanently paralyze the victim, which actually equals death until someone is stupid enough to remove the said stake, to swords with which we will be able to cut off, for example, a limb of an attacking enemy, which should at least limit the repertoire of his attacks.

Not to mention the ability to create and modify equipment, which is actually the norm in most games, and not only RPGs.
 
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As I understand it, the developers forgot to add the option of picking up and physically using weapons by the main character?
As i understand it ... they didnt "forgot" per se ... they more likely just decided to not include that option at all.

You can ignore projectile weapons because, as we know, vampires usually don't care about projectiles
For one ... that is not true, on the contrary we know about lots of Vampires that preffered guns, hunters use guns, and i could quote several characters from first game that keep warning our protagonists that "shotgun blast to the head, oh thats touble". ;)

For two ... even if that would be true, it wouldnt be valid reason ... we dont really care what "most vampires" and "usualy" care about. What is and should be important for us is what "our protagonist care about". ;)

And finaly for three ... since there is allready implemented option to use those, even if kinda goofy and over the top way, it seem rather wasting to throw that away.

-> I say keep using levitation to fire guns, if you REALLY must ... but allow us at least to arm oureselves in advance. :-/

The situation is different with melee weapons.
Is it tho?

I mean ... okey, stakes are fair point ... no arguments there.

But speaking about anything else?
I mean, if we come out of asumption that game developers are (as it seems) are using right now ... that no matter what, body of vampire is the best weapon ... and yes, that basicaly means that your fists hit harder than steel tube ...
(i know, it sounds ridiculous, bcs it frankly is)
... then, honestly, its the other way around ... there is lots of benefits to use conventional guns, but little to no reason to use cold weapons. :-/

I mean sure, cuting limbs sounds great!
But that is something even games that are specificly focused on that kind of damage (Star Wars: Survivor) didnt put together properly even after it being their focus for whole development process ... expecting something like that being added "in the spare time" sounds unrealistic. :)
 
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As I understand it, the developers forgot to add the option of picking up and physically using weapons by the main character?

It was not "forgotten". They did communicate that our elder wouldn't be carrying weapons the regular way pretty much over a year ago. No matter what our opinion about this feature, it was definitely planned.

And as I said before, I like that the developer took the professional approach and set their bar lower to begin with, at the start of the process. This means that the game is much more likely to actually come out and be as good as it can be on this budget.
 
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