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Developer Diary #8: Explore the World of Darkness

Hello again,

This is my 3rd dev diary, and I have used the last two to talk about the 1st and 2nd pillars of the game: Feel Like a Vampire, which covered the player fantasy; Visceral Immersive combat, which covers the action gameplay. Today I want to tell you about our 3rd and final game pillar: "Explore The World of Darkness," which covers the setting, society, characters, story, and RPG elements of the game. We'll be talking in-depth about RPG elements at a later date, so today I am going to focus mainly on the setting, society, and characters.

MN_Wrestler_ENV_TowerCamarilla02_v01_RedSteam.jpg


The World of Darkness is the larger umbrella for the Vampire The Masquerade IP and the related games. It handles the supernatural in a mature and grounded way, basing it on the premise that vampires, werewolves, and ghosts are actually real, but are hidden from our contemporary human society. Video games offer a unique perspective on this world that other mediums don't, being able to walk around it and explore it. Our goal with this pillar was to create a version of Seattle that is authentic to The World of Darkness IP and makes you believe that this hidden side of Seattle, where vampires are in control, could be real and that in contrast the human world feels more alien to you and potentially unreal. To that end, we didn't set about making an exact replica of Seattle, as our priority wasn't to represent the human world, but the vampire one. The Seattle you experience in Bloodlines 2 is a kind of "best-of" Seattle where we've taken key landmarks and brought them in closer together. For example, Pioneer Square is a key location, and it speaks to us of the old city and its founders (some of which were vampires that you will meet), but we also have volunteer park, which in reality is on the outskirts of the city but we loved the idea of doing a creepy mission there that reveals something sinister beneath this iconic conservatory.

We want you to feel like you are seeing Seattle through the eyes of a vampire, so we have also made buildings taller, lights brighter, and alleyways darker to give an overall heightened feeling to what you are seeing as if you are looking through the eyes of an apex predator. For a better explanation of this, I suggest you read Ben Matthews dev diary on our neo-noir art style.

In Bloodlines 1 you were a new vampire in a city with a large Anarch presence where the Camarilla don’t have complete dominance. For Bloodlines 2 we have flipped this on its head. You play Phyre, an Elder vampire (~400 years old) in a city where Camarilla has been dominant for decades, and any hint of Anarch sympathy is squashed. Phyre's number 1 loyalty is to herself, but she is wise enough to respect the power of the Camarilla and, more importantly, the Masquerade. Within the story Phyre earns a seat at the top-table of the Camarilla as the court's Sheriff, giving her the court's protection but also a powerful authority within Seattle's vampire society. This is an RPG, of course, so you can roleplay Sheriff in multiple ways, maybe you are a loyal Sheriff of the Camarilla, or an Anarch sympathiser working from within to undermine the court, or maybe you're a self-centred Elder vampire playing the different factions off each other to your advantage.

JG_Wrestler_ENV_Quests_EscapeTheBloodHunt_Interior_TallSewerAreaSteam.jpg


Phyre's motivation in the story is driven (at least initially) by regaining her power - she has awoken after 100 years in torpor (vampire hibernation) 6000 miles from home with markings all over her body which are limiting her powers. This sets up the narrative context of the ability tree (which we will show in due course) which instead of being about adding new powers to Phyre, like levelling up in the pen-and-paper RPG, you are unlocking her existing powers. Over her 300 years roaming the old world, Phyre had gained many powers, not only those from the disciplines of her clan.

An important part of the Masquerade is that vampires are hidden in plain sight in our society. There are several vampire hangouts in the city which, to a passerby appear innocent, but to those in the know, are important places in vampire society. For example, the little old lady who runs the all-night coffee shop may not be as sweet and defenceless as she seems at first glance. A key location the player often returns to, is Weaver Tower, a Seattle corporate HQ that is actually the front for the Camarilla, inspired by the downtown skyscrapers in Seattle and giving the city's Prince a skyline view over their domain.

Lastly, there can be no World of Darkness without light - the world of humans. The city is populated with "civilians," unaware that you are a vampire walking among them. Whilst this may seem great to a vampire - free-ranged food on every street - it also comes with risk, as using your vampiric powers or feeding in front of witnesses can trigger a Masquerade breach, and while you are Sheriff, even you are not above the law and could have the court's Scourge sent to deal with you if you are reckless on the streets of the emerald city. So make sure to hunt like a vampire: stalking from rooftops, hunting in alleyways, isolating your prey and if you are observed, deal with witnesses swiftly.

I hope you enjoyed hearing more about the setting and world of Bloodlines 2. We look forward to sharing more information with you in future dev diaries.

Good night!
Alex Skidmore, Project Creative Director
 
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I'm sometimes surprised about how much criticism Bloodlines 2 is gathering; I admit I didn't watch the "spoiler" trailer because I just dislike spoilers, but even very praised and well liked games like Baldur's Gate III don't let your character do everything a player can want in the setting and sometimes a player can feel a bit pushed towards a narrative direction.

And I agree, the game promised was at least first Bloodline level, but the "new" Bloodlines 2 seems to be more like the quite old Vampire: Redemption with maybe some more choices along the road. It's not the best thing and it's a downgrade, I can't agree more, but the "old" Bloodline 2 is not happening, but this is also the big "elephant in the room" with games.

Yeah, I'd say that your second statement here is exactly why there is so much negativity. If they didn't specifically drag up the name Bloodlines while seemingly showing so little interest in actually making another Bloodlines I think very few of the now vocal critics would be all that bothered.
 
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that as a player you can follow different approaches and get different outcomes
A lot of that skepticism would probably be dispelled by actually just showing some part of the game where you can genuinely influence something. And how you are doing so - are there mechanics involved? Is it simply a dialogue choice?

Or is it really just Besthesda-style "Yes, I'm happy to do it" "Yes, but I'm annoyed that I have to do this"? Because that's how the encounter that we've been shown comes across ^^;

And none of them really matters ...

I mean, there are some minor consequences like wich one of those two will you meet in final game ...
Sure, but I think that's by and large fine. After all, we are roleplaying, so space for roleplay choices matter.

To use a Bloodlines 1 example I've brought up before; at some point you run into Samantha, your old friend. She's happy to have found you and wants to tell your family.
You do nothing, it's a Masquerade Violation and she disappears from the game with no further consequences.
You do something, it's not a Masquerade Violation and she disappears from the game with no further consequences. You can do this in various ways; murdering her incurring a Humanity penalty (which can also happen if you try to intimidate her and fail!), some of the gentler versions like just Persuading her giving you a Masquerade Redemption and using your various vampire powers ... err, really doing nothing but giving you some unique dialogue.

So effectively the Samantha encounter really just gives either a Masq. Violation or Redemption or possibly makes you lose some Humanity. But none of this any particularly big implications for the game (unless you just happens to be right on the edge but by this point I doubt many players won't be in the range they don't want to be in ^^) and there's never any follow up.

And yet it's a great little scene for roleplaying. It shows the devs thought the encounter through, gave different clans different tools to solve it (including the encounter not happening at all for Nosferatu); allow the players to be the character they want to be, etc. It's the sorta thing as a player you want to see that makes you go "oooh, they thought about this!"

Yeah, sure, maybe there could have been a follow-up quest if you don't stop her from calling your family, or maybe there could have been a subtle clue for you to find if you do stop her - like a newspaper announcing your disappearance/death or something (e: honestly, maybe there is, it's been a LONG while ^^). That'd elevate the little encounter a touch further.

But fundamentally I don't think you really need a huge chain of consequences for choices to be appreciated by the player.

Let's go back to Willem again. Obviously it seems his default is getting blown up thus disappearing from the game. Let's say we give the player the option to somehow save him (let's not worry about the how for the moment ;) ). Well, it'd be entirely natural (even if very gameplay-story-branching-convinient ^^) to tell him that he should rush to lay low somewhere so as to not alert the people wanting him dead to his survival. Thus, he also disappears from the game. Gameplay-wise him being alive instead of dead might make zero difference after that point (though possibly he could email some help at some point or something, as a "reward" for saving him). But roleplay-wise it's a huge difference even so! I might be doing it because I'm compassionate. I might be doing it because he's Camarilla and I'm loyal to their cause. I might simply be doing it because he's a potential asset now, to potentially be used in the future (even if that's not happening in the game ...).

So to me this stuff doesn't have to have gigantic branches. I imagine the Willem encounter is quite early on. Designing the game where throughout it matters if you saved him or not is asking a lot of a small team. But that doesn't mean you can't write it in a way where nonetheless there's options.
 
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I'm sometimes surprised about how much criticism Bloodlines 2 is gathering; I admit I didn't watch the "spoiler" trailer because I just dislike spoilers, but even very praised and well liked games like Baldur's Gate III don't let your character do everything a player can want in the setting and sometimes a player can feel a bit pushed towards a narrative direction.
Campaign narrative push will always be present to some degree, it's present in all RPG's and both computer and tabletop. Most often your main story line can either be "good" or "evil" path. In almost every single case the good path receives the most of the content and people feel "pushed" by the game in those directions. I think BG3 did very well with the alternate paths even though they are not as well developed as the "good" path exactly. Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous is probably the gold standard in amount of narrative choice. As long there is multiple clear paths people is usually okay with some pushing narrative. It's impossible to say as this point how one sided the narrative will be until you play the game. Vampire Bloodlines 1, the main narrative storyline was pretty railroaded and you pretty much ended up in the same place. It's not a deal breaker obviously.

Quest solving variation I think is a more important factor. BG3 is probably the gold standard for this. But Bloodlines 1 was much better at it than narrative choice due to the skills system. Combat, Domination, Seduction, Hacking, Lockpicking, Stealth etc. felt useful in the game, yes some encounters could only be solved by combat. I don't think that was an issue personally. I don't think every encounter needs be solvable in multiple ways as long as many are and skills feel useful throughout. Chinese Room have not shown any other way to solve any encounter except by combat, because Vampires are just powerful combat characters, and picking a lock just isn't immersive gameplay. Stealth, Magic is merely just another way to fight similar to many other action games. etc. More alarming, the game doesn't even have something like quests, there is no quest log. That is simply not an RPG then.

More importantly is the tone and feel of the character, you need to be able to identify with your character. BL1 didn't have a character creator but it didn't need one because essentially it had 14 different presets, male and female to choose from instead. I think it's a strawman when people say "well BL1 didn't have a character generator", well all character generators are usually just a selection of presets that you make small changes to like hair color. If Troika made BL2 , they would have made it a character generator just like HSL would have. Chinese have the opposite , it's just Phyre the androgynous vampire with different hair colours. That is honestly pathetic and absolutely catastrophic for the optics of this game. Who ever made that choice, needs to be fired honestly. If you go with a fixed main character, that character MUST be a character the MAJORITY of gamers can relate and want to play. This is why The Witcher is could work, because not only is it a successful established book series character it's also the type of character the majority gamers can relate and want to play. The statistics of who would pick the current female Phyre in a lineup of possible fixed characters they would play if they had a choice, is going to be 3% or less. That is a monumental PR disaster for this game. The fact that CR still doesn't even have a male version of Phyre at this point, shows how out of touch they are with reality, that should be their priority number 1, get a masculine male version out there soon as possible and hide this other option as soon as you can.
 
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As I actually played the Mass Effect original trilogy and Andromeda, I kinda I have to disagree about how branching narratively it is.
Im sory, i fail to see the disagreement. o_O
Concidering rest of the pragraph. o_O

but the "old" Bloodline 2 is not happening
I dont really concider this to be an relevant argument ...

From story perspective, Chineese Room obviously decided to rewrite it whole (maybe they kept some parts of quests, or some side quests, we will never know ... but the story itself was certainly changed, and after all they said it themselves: "we wanted to make our own game") > so, logicaly i would dare to say, every criticism of story falls on their head in full weight.
They could have decided to make the story as branched and choices as important as they wanted ... they decided to make this, whatever that is ... i admit that so far we dont *know* per se, what choices will matter and what not ... but IF they do matter, its nothing easier than tell, or even better SHOW us ... so far all we got fits perfectly to extremely railroaded and straight forward story where our only choices are expressing our mood, during events we simply cannot affect in any way.
And such approach sucks in RPG's, no matter what.

Call me crazy ... but i think there is still time, i bet people wouldnt get too agry about delaying the game another year, just so they can branch it a bit ... if they want to.
Thats what would show if this is as people (mainly on youtube) keep telling "a pasion project" or meere "cashgrab". ;)

In the end, I'm just reasonably happy that the game is being developed and looks good enough;
I cant say much more that i envy you ...
Still, i cant really help the feeling that it would be possible to turn this "good enough" into "exceptional" project, if they really want to ... and if they really listen to people. :-/

it seems that you can influence the story a bit more than an action-rpg
Does it tho?
Or is that just your wishfull thinking?

I mean ... if it seems that way ... can you point me towards origin of that feeling?

Ex.: I feel like there will be no influence ... and i base that feeling on fact that they didnt show us differences in our decisions, those decisions feels very much alike based on how the choices are worded, and all talk about choices in Developer Diaries so far seems to only emphasis our character personality.

Having Phyre in the role of a Camarilla sheriff isn't too limiting in my opinion
No its not ... every story can be told in different ways.
This have basicaly no effect on branching. :)

and in the dev diary it's announced that as a player you can follow different approaches and get different outcomes. Will that be true?
It would be something ...
It would be Chineese Room showing "hey we have noticed you are woried about this, and we would like to offer some comfort" ... and building trust in your fans is important.

I cannot say of course, I have no access to a copy of the game.
None of us can ...
Except Outstar maybe(?), she claimed that she played HSL version while it was still in development ... seems reasonable that she would be offered to participate in alfa testing of this one aswell.

But I also feel that if Bloodlines 2 can be a solid even if not a historical milestone game, it's better than nothing at all.
Lets just agree to disagree ...
 
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If they didn't specifically drag up the name Bloodlines while seemingly showing so little interest in actually making another Bloodlines I think very few of the now vocal critics would be all that bothered.
So wouldnt gamers tho ... or at very least, that would be reasonable expectation.
When you look at things in wider perspective:
- Swansong was no huge sucess, not even huge loss, but still just meh ... from financial perspective ofc.
- Werewolf game was in the same waters ... it didnt sell horribly, but also not exceptionaly.
- And then there is Bloodhunt ... lots of money invested in development of completely free game, where just few dozen people bothered to buy some skin and wich was forgotten quite fast.
(Wich by the way kinda pains me, bcs Bloodhunt was in my eyes really great game done with true pasion, that sadly missed its time.)

What World of Darkness needs now is actual HIT ... not another meh.
And what is the thing people love? Bloodlines.
The name itself drag customers, especiaily concidering how long they were waiting ... just go watch youtubers talking about it, at very least 3/4 of them admits that they pre-ordered it years ago and simply never refunded and they will play it no matter what, bcs they simply want "a Bloodlines" ...
It may get bad rewiews afterwards, that much si true ... but honestly, who cares if the product is allready sold? :-/

Sure, but I think that's by and large fine. After all, we are roleplaying, so space for roleplay choices matter.
Agreed ...
As i said, Mass Effect is "linear game done right". :)

Our choices dont really affect things, and nobody minds that ... bcs in whole scope of the story we are basicaly just one little cogwheel in HUUUUUUUUUUUGE galactic machine. :D

Here im affraid tho, especialy since we will get role of a Sheriff ...
That excuse wouldnt work. Basicaly we are second, or third most influencal character in a city ... that should include some ability to affect things around us. :-/

To use a Bloodlines 1 example I've brought up before;
Well, Bloodlines 1 is linear game after all, no arguments about that ...
The only difference is Sabbat mod ... but thats a mod. :)

It gets even worse ...
Bcs when you decide to persuate Gargoyle, to join Isaac ... he is then fighting with you again inside Tremere chantry ...
Still, there is no way to say if its the same Gargoyel ... and yes, the mod argument apply aswell, some might have f* up. :D

But none of this any particularly big implications for the game
Nothing have huge implications in Bloodlines ...
You murder whole Elisabeth Dane, or Museum staff? Prince is pissed ... dont matter tho.
You "join" the Anarchs in Act2 and are spying for Damsel? Prince knew all the time ... dont matter tho.
You get the Astrolite peacefully? Mercurio will murder everyone to death ... dont matter tho.
And so on, and so on. :)

And yet it's a great little scene for roleplaying. It shows the devs thought the encounter through, gave different clans different tools to solve it (including the encounter not happening at all for Nosferatu); allow the players to be the character they want to be, etc. It's the sorta thing as a player you want to see that makes you go "oooh, they thought about this!"
Ex-freaking-zactly! :)

But fundamentally I don't think you really need a huge chain of consequences for choices to be appreciated by the player.
Well not necesarily ... thats why were talking about linear games. :)
Those were examples of linear =/= bad. ;) At least not necessarily.

Its still true that we got some promises tho ... and not fulfilling them feels like downgrade. :-/

Let's go back to Willem again. Obviously it seems his default is getting blown up thus disappearing from the game. Let's say we give the player the option to somehow save him (let's not worry about the how for the moment ;) ). Well, it'd be entirely natural (even if very gameplay-story-branching-convinient ^^) to tell him that he should rush to lay low somewhere so as to not alert the people wanting him dead to his survival. Thus, he also disappears from the game. Gameplay-wise him being alive instead of dead might make zero difference after that point (though possibly he could email some help at some point or something, as a "reward" for saving him). But roleplay-wise it's a huge difference even so! I might be doing it because I'm compassionate. I might be doing it because he's Camarilla and I'm loyal to their cause. I might simply be doing it because he's a potential asset now, to potentially be used in the future (even if that's not happening in the game ...).
I might have said this allready ...
But ex-freaking-zactly! :3
 
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Does it tho?
Or is that just your wishfull thinking?

I mean ... if it seems that way ... can you point me towards origin of that feeling?
The point is that in many many games you don't get to actually change the story, you get that bit of dialogue here and there or this one quest ending or the other.
I cant say much more that i envy you ...
Still, i cant really help the feeling that it would be possible to turn this "good enough" into "exceptional" project, if they really want to ... and if they really listen to people. :-/
That's pretty much the point, if they want, if they have the funding and the staff and so on, but I feel the big business decision has been taken and there's nothing that the community can do to convince the people involved in developing Bloodlines 2 that the original vision was better.
 
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More importantly is the tone and feel of the character, you need to be able to identify with your character. BL1 didn't have a character creator but it didn't need one because essentially it had 14 different presents male and female to choose from instead. I think it's a strawman when people say "well BL1 didn't have a character generator", well all character generators are usually just a selection of pre mades that you make small changes to like hair color. If Troika made BL2 , they would have made it a character generator just like HSL would have. Chinese have the opposite , it's just Phyre the androgynous vampire with different hair colours. That is honestly pathetic and absolutely catastrophic for the optics of this game. Who ever made that choice, needs to be fired honestly. If you go with a fixed main character, that character MUST be a character the MAJORITY of gamers can relate and want to play. This is why The Witcher is could work, because not only is it a successful established book series character it's also the type of character the majority gamers can relate and want to play. The statistics of who would pick the current female Phyre in a lineup of possible fixed characters they would play if they had a choice, is going to be 3% or less. That is a monumental PR disaster for this game. The fact that CR still doesn't even have a male version of Phyre at this point, shows how out of touch they are with reality, that should be their priority number 1, get a masculine male version out there soon as possible and hide this other option as soon as you can.
I completely agree with the current version of Phyre being not the popular choice, but at least on what the developers have officially stated, Phyre gender is supposed to be a player choice, so the male version will be added. (I don't know if this was changed recently).
Of course I would have liked to have a more feminine Phyre for when I'll be playing, but even now there are so many game that are still not adding a gender choice at all; I don't want to be be a polemist of course, I completely understand that in case of franchises with an established main character like in case of the Witcher, it's a sensible choice to just go with the canon protagonist. I'm just referring to those games with an original setting that are still created in the contemporary years thinking only to a male demographic as public.
So I guess that I'm still ok with Phyre. The thing that worries me most about the characterization is that I feel the writing of an elder vampire, and one waking up after missing the last hundred years (with all the social changes and so on) is a bit difficult to pull up narratively in my opinion, unless TCR have employed a very good writer.
 
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So wouldnt gamers tho ... or at very least, that would be reasonable expectation.
When you look at things in wider perspective:
- Swansong was no huge sucess, not even huge loss, but still just meh ... from financial perspective ofc.
- Werewolf game was in the same waters ... it didnt sell horribly, but also not exceptionaly.
- And then there is Bloodhunt ... lots of money invested in development of completely free game, where just few dozen people bothered to buy some skin and wich was forgotten quite fast.
(Wich by the way kinda pains me, bcs Bloodhunt was in my eyes really great game done with true pasion, that sadly missed its time.)

What World of Darkness needs now is actual HIT ... not another meh.
And what is the thing people love? Bloodlines.
Sorry, I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Bloodlines wasn't a success either, certainly not in a financial sense. It was a niche game for a niche audience and that is part of why it has such legendary status because those who enjoy that REALLY enjoy that. It would make sense that the company that decides to dig up the corpse would understand that and hand it to a studio that ready to work on a lower budget, accounting for the niche market, and make something that is true to the original but without stepping in the same traps as the previous dev team. Especially if that company also made their fortune making niche map painting games. But alas, it seems that they want dumbed down mass appeal and a cinematic experience, and that's why I'm here seething on a forum instead of looking forward to digitally sink my claws and fangs in to some kine.
 
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Campaign narrative push will always be present to some degree, it's present in all RPG's and both computer and tabletop. Most often your main story line can either be "good" or "evil" path. In almost every single case the good path receives the most of the content and people feel "pushed" by the game in those directions. I think BG3 did very well with the alternate paths even though they are not as well developed as the "good" path exactly. Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous is probably the gold standard in amount of narrative choice. As long there is multiple clear paths people is usually okay with some pushing narrative. It's impossible to say as this point how one sided the narrative will be until you play the game. Vampire Bloodlines 1, the main narrative storyline was pretty railroaded and you pretty much ended up in the same place. It's not a deal breaker obviously.

Quest solving variation I think is a more important factor. BG3 is probably the gold standard for this. But Bloodlines 1 was much better at it than narrative choice due to the skills system. Combat, Domination, Seduction, Hacking, Lockpicking, Stealth etc. felt useful in the game, yes some encounters could only be solved by combat. I don't think that was an issue personally. I don't think every encounter needs be solvable in multiple ways as long as many are and skills feel useful throughout. Chinese Room have not shown any other way to solve any encounter except by combat, because Vampires are just powerful combat characters, and picking a lock just isn't immersive gameplay. Stealth, Magic is merely just another way to fight similar to many other action games. etc. More alarming, the game doesn't even have something like quests, there is no quest log. That is simply not an RPG then.

More importantly is the tone and feel of the character, you need to be able to identify with your character. BL1 didn't have a character creator but it didn't need one because essentially it had 14 different presets, male and female to choose from instead. I think it's a strawman when people say "well BL1 didn't have a character generator", well all character generators are usually just a selection of presets that you make small changes to like hair color. If Troika made BL2 , they would have made it a character generator just like HSL would have. Chinese have the opposite , it's just Phyre the androgynous vampire with different hair colours. That is honestly pathetic and absolutely catastrophic for the optics of this game. Who ever made that choice, needs to be fired honestly. If you go with a fixed main character, that character MUST be a character the MAJORITY of gamers can relate and want to play. This is why The Witcher is could work, because not only is it a successful established book series character it's also the type of character the majority gamers can relate and want to play. The statistics of who would pick the current female Phyre in a lineup of possible fixed characters they would play if they had a choice, is going to be 3% or less. That is a monumental PR disaster for this game. The fact that CR still doesn't even have a male version of Phyre at this point, shows how out of touch they are with reality, that should be their priority number 1, get a masculine male version out there soon as possible and hide this other option as soon as you can.
Yes.
This is a great post.

I was going to try to be serious for a minute and write about the game, but this post says all I wanted to say and more.

I sincerely hope that VTMBL2 will be a good game with a unique vampire-ness. It could be a great experience. What we have been shown so far point to the opposite. And for the love of all that is (un)holy, the transgender protagonist woman/man, whoever thought that was a fantastic idea need to be fired right now. Ugh.
 
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Most of the time when I played the TTRPG, the social element was primary and the combat was secondary. I do realize that not every table played the same, but more times than not people play VTM for the intrigue and the occasional fight.

My question is: What was the thought process behind making a seemingly combat heavy VTM game that looks to be light on dialogue choice?
 
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Bloodlines wasn't a success either, certainly not in a financial sense.
Irellevant ...
That game belonged to Activision, and so would every profit.

My point is that for Paradox this franchise probably isnt as financialy hot as they might expected ...
There was few experiments, but they all floped ... more or less ... and from my experience, studios rarely watch their profits and say "well, we f*ked this up, we need to do better next time", much more often they come with some ridiculous explanation including things like "fans are bigots" or "nobody can handle strong female lead" or "seems like nobody cares about this genre/franchise anymore". :-/

Thats why i suspect they were so focused on finish Bloodlines "no matter what" ... bcs that is THE golden goose of World of Darkness ... at least in matter of computer games.
Sometimes i wonder how much pre-orders they got in 2019 when it was announced ... but concidering it become most wishlisted game on steam overnight and hold there for quite some time ... i would expect a lot. :-/ (Not going to any conspiration theories here tho.)

Sadly ... "no matter what" is not exactly best aproach im affraid. :-/
And im even more affraid that with each another flop, they might come to exactly one of those silly conclusions ... especialy now, when people say that Paradox alegedly stated somewhere that they will probably leave RPG field and will focus on Strategies again. :-/
 
studios rarely watch their profits and say "well, we f*ked this up, we need to do better next time", much more often they come with some ridiculous explanation including things like "fans are bigots" or "nobody can handle strong female lead" or "seems like nobody cares about this genre/franchise anymore". :-/
I think you may be right about this. I guess that if you put several years of work into making a big game and it flops, it is difficult to accept the truth. Much easier to blame the consumers than admit to yourself that the product just was not good enough.

But Paradox is a public company now and that comes with obligations to shareholders. They must generate profits. Have they not a team of quality assurance people whose job it is to ensure that their games are of a certain standard?
 
My point is that for Paradox this franchise probably isnt as financialy hot as they might expected ...
And my point is that I agree that it isn't, and I honestly don't think it should be. PDX seem to be losing what made BL1 great in trying to chase some kind of broader, more commercial appeal when they could be accepting that what they were always good at was niche games for a smaller, yet diehard fanbase. Both as devs and as publishers. But I guess that goes against line-must-go-uppism. If there ever is a Mass Effect of the VtM universe I will eat my proverbial hat.
 
Game business back then was entirely different than it is now. Half-Life 1 sold 680,000 copies in the US in the first two years, and that was the big "Bloodlines killer", so to speak. Publishers would cry over these figures these days; that's barely a medium indie title - first week of release ^^

Point being, back then making a niche game to the relatively small gaming market was indeed a certain risk. But nowadays? If done right, you can sell 5 million copies over some obscure title that only speaks to a small fraction of a market that's grown to be so big you can only laugh at its feeble beginnings (we're at 220 billion $ per year total atm and still growing by 10+% per year ... ^^; ).

Baldur's Gate 3 is a comparatively hardcore RPG and sold 2.5 million already in early access. Post-release it had almost a million players concurrently - Steam only. Supposedly even just early access BG3 is beating Starfield. And we can do similar numbers for the likes of the Pathfinder RPGs - if anything, even more niche than BG3 - and how well they did ... of course, it's not always one-dimensionally simple as for example Pillars of Eternity 2 failed to meet expectations for somewhat nebulous reasons. But that can happen to any game, niche or not.

Plus, while correct that BL1 wasn't a success financially initially, over the years, the sales numbers have crept up and kept creeping up. It came too late for Troika, but it shows the audience was there and it was a problem of botched release plus, again, a growing market. So the "natural" Bloodlines fans are actually way more these days than there would have been had they made a sequel right away back then, weirdly enough ...

So I don't think this is an issue of "mainstream-ification", or at least not primarily. The audience is there, there's no reason to go for that these days. Maybe with specific stuff like the console-gamepad-gameplay design choices because gotta do the multiplatform thing, that sorta stuff. But I don't think the overall design philosophy comes from this direction.

I'd speculate maybe that HSL-BL2 made PDX more risk averse and the seeming simplicity of TCR-BL2 could perhaps have been appealing to decision makers. I mean, can't screw up complex systems if you don't have any, eh? Simple game, should definitely get over the finish line, just good enough to leech of the great work that people twenty years ago did. What could possibly go wrong? ;)
 
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I'd speculate maybe that HSL-BL2 made PDX more risk averse and the seeming simplicity of TCR-BL2 could perhaps have been appealing to decision makers. I mean, can't screw up complex systems if you don't have any, eh? Simple game, should definitely get over the finish line, just good enough to leech of the great work that people twenty years ago did. What could possibly go wrong? ;)
Yup, pretty much this exactly plus the aspect of HSLBL2 being harder to monetize via DLCs, where as TCR offered a version that could be chopped up in to little parts much more easily.
 
Have they not a team of quality assurance people whose job it is to ensure that their games are of a certain standard?
To my limited knowledge ...
What "quality assurance" teams often do, is to test things you present to them and try to find out if they work as they should ... and if using those things feels intuitive and entertaining enough ...

I mean, even if you would have group of people whos work would litterally be to judge if the game is "worthy sucessor" or not ... the results would differ each time you would swap those people. :D

Not to mention, it can really be a good game ... not awesome, just good ... bcs even around here people allready admited several times that IF it wouldnt be called "Bloodlines" they would have much more opened minds about it ... basicaly all you need in employee who either never played first one, or never created any feelings for it for various reasons. :)
Now when i think about it ... they are strongly focused on combat in everything they showed us so far ... they keep repeating that "Bloodlines 2 is ACTION rpg" ... so, it seems logical to me that if they would hire some "quality assurance" teams, they would want those teams to test thoroughly the combat aspect of the game, and i really doubt people with this focus would be even interested in first Bloodlines, for obvious reasons. :D
And my point is that I agree that it isn't, and I honestly don't think it should be.
Im not really sure it isnt ... and even that it shouldnt be ...
But at the same time, i kinda believe that Paradox wanted it to be, or make it so ...

I mean World of Darkness have huge fanbase, not as huge as some other franchises, but still huge!
As stated before, the game become Steam most Wishlisted thing over night, and it hold there for several moths if i remember corectly ... and it was open from Pre-Order from first day aswell ... i still dont want to start with conspiration theories, but i believe that alone (number of preorders) should have give them good estimation about how big bag for money they would need, if this will work out.
And my gues is obviously: VERY BIG ... since i admit openly, if i had to guess (bcs as far as i know, this number was never released) ... i believe they got several millions preorders within first week, that alone is some pile of money ... then start counting DLC's, spinoff projects (such as was Swansong, Coteries and Shadows of NY, Werewolf, etc.) and so on, and so on ...

As far as i even know ... that was the plan.
Kick out with Bloodlines, wich would give this franchise some so desperately needed fresh blood ... and then keep pumping more and more content as long as people would be willing to pay for it. :)
Sadly ... it didnt quite work out ... and without that first kick out, the follow-up's were, well lets say: not as hot as they could be. :-/

Then, with each flop they become more and more careful.
And in the end there are two ways to make a game ...
- Invest HUGE amount of money, take HUGE risk, and try to make something exceptional ... and either win or loose it all.
- Invest conciderably lower amount of money, idealy as little as humanly possible, and you shall see ... if it works, great, you have profit ... if it dont, well, things happens.
Concideing how much they had to logicaly invest to HSL while not even reach the end ... im not really sure if first option were still on the table. :-/

And last, but not least ...
I dont really think they are purposefully trying to "recreate Bloodlines to appeal to wider modern audience" ... maybe they do, but i didnt notice much hints about that ... maybe except for very modern visage of our protagonist. :-/
I think that they simply dont really understand, or care ... where the heart of this fanbase lies. And i think if this game will fail, that will be the reason. :-/
 
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I'm late to the party, is Phyre the character that's been made for these dev diaries, or are we playing a more or less predefined character named Phyre?
 
I'm late to the party, is Phyre the character that's been made for these dev diaries, or are we playing a more or less predefined character named Phyre?

A predefined character named Phyre. You can change her hair colour by selecting a Clan for her.
 
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